Atma farming...Follow

I'm in the camp that thinks the FATE grind for atmas is a bad design. I'm working it slowly, I'm spiritbinding gear slowly, and leveling my choco at an absurdly slow pace - and I am getting through it. I don't need my weapon now.

But it is boring as so many people are complaining about. I would much prefer grinding coil or working on Levi instead - however I belong to a small social FC, and most of the people I play with are shift workers so coordinating any kind of static is pretty much impossible. My husband is one of those shift workers which essentially means, even though I have a set schedule, I cannot commit to a static because if he has the night off, I will be spending it with him, not a static.

I think the big complaint is that progression is limited to the mind numbing low level FATES if you can't really participate in the other paths. I'm a reasonably skilled player, and I want the same satisfaction of achieving my weapon instead of just sinking my time into it. Solo does not mean it has to be easy. A much more engaging design would have been setting up 12 duties, solo events you had to go to and do instead of the absurd RNG fest. They would be hard fights, testing your skills. Additional time sinks could be built in to open each duty, or to get items in the outside world that would debuff a particular duty boss. And in later patches, they could implement Echo to make them easier for people to catch up if required. For balance purposes, it could even be just 4 bosses per weapon type, to differentiate healer fights vs tank fights, vs dps fights based on the weapon being upgraded... Something like that would satisfy the people looking for a challenge, and do not have the availibility to be in larger party type coil/levi grinding.

I beg to disagree - the main storyline quests, job quests, etc have plenty of solo duty components with mechanics to stress particular skills. (Not saying that they could be a bit more challenging.... but...)

Think of duties like this;
1) First is a gear check (any type of role), you need to be iLvl 9x, to even enter. You have to get a key which is a 100% drop if you complete specific high level FATE with a gold rating. Inside the duty you have a big boss with lots of positioning and dodging components without ground markers.

2) A tank duty could focus on crowd control mechanics, you have healer npcs spread out in the arena that all provide small heals. Add in lots of adds that if not controlled properly will eat all your npcs, making it impossible to survive. But if you save them all you get overwhelmed. You will need to use all your skills like Cover, as well as consumables to stand a chance. Add in situational awareness components, and you have a nice challenge.

3) A fight where you need something from each craft to minimize the impact of boss abilities; A certain food that protects from a poision, a mega potion of your primary stat to remove a stat reduction debuff, a ring that shields from paralysis. The more you equip, the more you are protected from, but also takes away from your good gear making you weaker, so you have to pick and choose what mechanics you will nullify, and which you will deal with.

4) A healer fight that stresses mana management, with mechanics that equalize the mana regeneration abilities between scholars and white mages.

Yes - this would require a lot more development time, but would be much more satisfying in the long run. I am an idealist and think this would be much better, but I am also a realist so I accept the damn FATE grind and try to make the most of it.

So, just because a player doesn't do coil (or isn't able to, if they lack an FC that can do that), they should just outright forget about progressing their character because "It isn't necessary."?

That's pretty close to saying "You got to Lv50 you might as well just quit the game".



You say that, and then you say....



Two paths require either a good static, or really good luck with Party Finder (which I hear is kinda strict these days, similar to PUG raids in WoW). One Path is Do-able Solo but is God-Awful Boring. You say "Don't do the God Awful Boring" .... but if I don't have a static and I can't get any luck in PF.... then that's basically "You're stuck with it, or quit the game." That sounds like bad game design to me.



The point I was trying to make sailed right over your head.

Again: Removing RNG != "Easier". Removing RNG = Consistent. Everybody puts in the same amount of work.

If you expect it to take ~50 Hours with RNG, you could remove the RNG and make it take a number of times that still takes about 40-50 hours. Same amount of work, its just you are guaranteed to get it in 40-50 and not "You might get it in 5, or you might get it in 80+". So yeah, 500 was an exaggeration. I used that exaggeration merely to pose a point. 80 sound better? Why is it fair that some people get the entire weapon in 5 hours, and another spends 50 hours and only has 1 of the Atmas? You cannot POSSIBLY say that's fair by any longshot.



*Whoosh*

Again, the point goes over your head. I said it is healthy to actually meet your goals once in awhile and have no further goals for a short period of time to take a 'break'. If you take it slow like you suggest... then you're just going to get left in the dust. When you do finally get them if you work slowly at them, then the next major patch comes out, and there's *more* to do......and you're still not done with the previous! There's no break, you finish your Atmas and then you immediately need to start doing whatever the next patch brings.

What I said above, I said it is healthy for a player to occasionally meet all of their goals for a couple weeks so they can take a break and play something else and come back refreshed when the new set of goals are released. When a player slaves away (even casually) and never meets all of their goals, then it feels like a slogfest or quagmire that you can never get ahead of.

Ever played with a cat?

You grab a string with a bell on the end of it. Said bell has a bunch of bright feathers or something, and you swing it around, and the cat keeps chasing it. But anybody who actually owns a cat is very well aware that the cat WILL get bored fairly quickly if you don't allow it to catch the bell occasionally. It will actually give up and plop down on the floor and start not caring about it. Sometimes they'll start flicking their tail because they are actually getting annoyed.

But yet, if you let that cat catch the bell for a few moments after a few misses, it will play much longer before it gets bored, and it won't get annoyed.

Same type of concept applies to MMORPG gamers -- if you keep the bell on a string just beyond their reach perpetually, they'll eventually get annoyed and stop caring about goals they can't achieve. They might even eventually get the game entirely, or at least for a long period of time. They need to catch that bell every now and then, and enjoy the feeling of accomplishment before another bell is dangled in front of their face immediately. They need a week or two to just enjoy their accomplishment before the next goal comes out every now-and-then.

Edited, Apr 24th 2014 1:18pm by Lyrailis

It's not about having it NOW! It's about A.) knowing that your work is bringing you closer to an actual goal, versus the uncertainty of RNG, and B.) the boring FATE-based nature of it. Some FATE's are fine. Making it 100% FATE is not. A combination of FATE and something like the personal role challenge format described above would be a great combination. One emphasizes using your class to the fullest of it's ability, while the other could be designed in such a way to provide a time sink of sorts but also enables a person to make measurable progress, however incremental.

So essentially it's about progressing your character in a tangible way. Which is the whole point of end game in an MMO; you want to feel like your character is growing stronger, whether that be slow or fast, just as long as it's progress.

That's the thing. After you gain your atmas, this is exactly what you're complaining about. Each Myth gain and each book objective you complete lets you KNOW you're gettin closer to a goal. So..what more do you want aside 'having it now'?

It's clear they're following a certain design, especially typical in 'standard MMOs', so...if this isn't about 'having it now', what is it about? Because Animus isn't at the mercy of RNG, it's guaranteed. Only Atmas are and once you're past Atmas..nothing is at the mercy of RNG.



P.S:

Coil Turn 5-9.
Leviathan Extreme
Weathered/Rebranded XI Mythic Weapons.

Those are end-game too, by the way.

Edited, Apr 25th 2014 10:24am by Theonehio

How many times do we have to say it? It's not about having it now. It's about knowing your progressing towards a goal, whether that's in a big leap or tiny steps. It took me over 200 Titan EX attempts to beat Titan, but almost every group I was in I could see measurable progress had been made. Yes, he wasn't dying, but he was getting closer. That kept me going, because I knew we'd get there eventually, and I had the visible confirmation of this.

RNG doesn't bring that. And given how they've done with other aspects of the Relic quest prior to this (and the Animus stuff sounds interesting, if repetitive) it's sucks to see them resort to grindy RNG.

And what on earth does that last bit have to do with anything? I know they're end game. I'm working towards them as we speak. I can't raid regularly, but I'm certainly trying. And I see measurable progress. I think I'm closer to killing Twintania than I am to getting my Atma, and I've only been in T5 maybe a total of four times. I sure as hell have spent FAR less time on T5 than I have on my Atma. Which, again, is bad design. Effort put into acquiring something should yield a reward, with similar rewards requiring similar effort.

Stop looking at this from the "Well, if you won't be using it why do you need it right now?" perspective, because that's not what this is about. It's about enjoying the game in the same way we have enjoyed it up until now and knowing we are getting progression in our characters, however small that progression may seem.

Indeed, however the system people complaining for does exist post Atma, so if people aren't wanting atmas handed to them, then it's just complaining because they can't have it now as some have said I guess.

If SE had any intention on making this actual viable content they would have done so in the 3+ months they had to develop 2.2, but it was obvious they had no intention on making unique content for it. What else could they have done? Made you spam older dungeons for a chance to see the atma any of the chests thus turning it into like the new hard mode dungeons and amdapor, e.g pushing out possible gear for an item?

No matter how you silce it, SE intended you to grind for it. Some get lucky, some do not, we all agree FATE spamming is the last thing anyone wanted.

Of course SE wants us to grind for it.

And we've never said nor asked for otherwise.

All we want us a NON-RNG GRIND.

If SE expects everybody to spend an average of 50 hours on this weapon, that's fine! The problem is, with RNG..... some people will get it in 5-10 hours, and others it will take 80+ hours. Sure the Median will fall somewhere in the ~50h range, but each person wonders to themselves... "Will my horrible luck cause me to be in the 80 range?" And of course all of those tools who say "I got mine in 10 hours, its fine!" that are NOT helping matters any.

What we're saying is..... "IF SE wants it to take 50h with RNG.... why not remove the RNG and make it take a straight 50 hours by some solo grind method"? Some type of.... tomes, books, etc that are obtainable solo. Again, my earlier idea of "Victory Points" that you earn by completing FATEs. 200, 300 whatever it takes to ensure it takes roughly the same amount of time.

That way it is CONSISTENT.

I don't understand why this is still sailing over peoples' heads. We want CONSISTENCY and we are not, I repeat, NOT, asking for it to be "Easier", or "Take Less Time", or any of that.

I can't really say I enjoy the low-level FATEs unless I am low level (they are ridiculously good XP Lv5-30).

Mid-to-High Level FATEs (Lv30+), I don't mind because they...

1). Don't limit me to 1-2 abilities.
2). Don't take my Job and its abilities away. (I HATE losing Sword Oath. Seriously, I hate <Lv30 Level Syncs because Sword Oath is THAT noticeable).
3). Give actual rewards. (20 Flame Seals for a Lv5 FATE? Pffft. I'd rather have the 160 that a Lv30 FATE gives for roughly the same amount of time spent).

Edited, Apr 26th 2014 1:08am by Lyrailis

It's actually a lot more than 50 hours. That's 1200 fates for 12 atmas... If you manage to grind with zero downtime and it takes you 5 min per fate including travel time ... well you do the math.

I'm close to 20 hours of grinding and I got 1 atma so far. At that rate I'm looking at 200+ hours unless I start getting lucky. If I was garanteed to get them after 1200 fates I wouldn't mind. I wouldn't mind if it was 5000 or even 10000 as long as I know that my time will be rewarded. Right now it feels like a complete waste of time so I'm done, I don't care enough. My gaming time is too little and too precious to waste it on boring grind with no measurable progress.

You shouldn't even be able to do this in all honesty. If there is no specialization the few people like you will annihilate all competition. It's horrible for the economy.

Be lucky that SE hasn't hard-locked you from becoming the best in everything (aka like in XI). I wouldn't have expected anything less from them, though, since becoming the best in everything in 2.0 was not that hard and that is not good.

Reading all the pages....nullifying everything with: Fates are f****** boring and f****** annoying and the drop rate is a mess. Did 891 Fates so far, and got 9 drops. These drops were in the first 4 days of farming. Not its 10 days, with 2-3 hours per day farming, without any drop. The most devastating part is: Because of this f****** s****** I start loosing the fun in ffxiv and that is what makes me really sad. Good game flawed by a f****** new "Lets bind the players for months, like WoW did...." :/