Atma farming...Follow

I always knew you were the ninja looting type!

A) There are many alternative progression paths with superior rewards.

B) You keep acting like this isn't the case.

So your only problem is that you can't keep upgrading the same weapon (that is inferior to alternatives) in the following patches? Sure, that's a complaint I can get behind. Just, quite a pancake of a complaint in comparison to what you are trying to constantly imply throughout this and other threads (that you have "no choice" here). You have "no choice" if you don't want a far superior weapon or you want to keep upgrading the same weapon every patch.

Maybe if you ask nicely they can cater to your needs by making you "upgrade" wave stick to ramuh's stick in 2.3. Happy?

Edited, Apr 23rd 2014 7:43pm by Hyanmen

I don't know if everyone who would prefer if atma grinding were more challenging actually want it gated behind content like extreme primals or coil. I think a lot of people would just like to feel at least somewhat engaged in the content they're doing. To feel like they're playing a video game. I mean, even storyline dungeons like Brayflox and Stone Vigil give me a feeling that I should attempt to play my role. Doing low level FATEs at the max level possible for each FATE, on the other hand, is just so far beyond face roll content that it's tough to even put into perspective. FATEs were already considered to be very easy, grindy content when leveling your class, even when you were below the level for each FATE. Now, in order to achieve a prestigious high level weapon, people are doing those same FATEs but at a much higher level.

Essentially, the grind to get your item level 100 weapon at the max level in this game involves the exact same content as the easiest way to level your class in the 20s and 30s, only it's far easier due to hitting the max level in absolutely every FATE. And that really just seems quite odd.

I've gotten 5 weapons in pickup parties. The key is, make sure you don't get those who say they have a clear or manipulate the item link feature sneaking in and absolutely ruining your farm.

Or go with your FC..that's even easier. While what you say is somewhat true, there's a playerbase problem if people can't reliably farm T5 or Leviathan EX now....High allagan is unobtainable for most currently, but you do have alternates whether you personally can or can't clear the content that's not a design issue.

Can't do Leviathan? Do T5, it's even Duty Finderable now..not that that would help but it's there.
Can't do Levi or T5? Farm the Animus.
Can't do either? Save your tomes of soli and buy a weathered and try to do T7.
Can't do that?

You simply don't deserve a top weapon if every option is out of your grasp.

Nobody is saying just give us the weapon without effort. All we're asking is that the process be fun. That's sort of the point of playing a video game, to enjoy it. It boggles my mind that people are against that.

While that is true, surely you can agree with the sentiment that low-level content is not fun for the high-level player?

Earlier in the thread I used Archer as an example. Lv10 Archer in a non-miniboss FATE is...

2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 (or whatever button your Straight Shot is bound to).

Until FATE is done, because using Venom Bite is not worth the time; everything dies too fast for the DoT to tick.

I can understand wanting to get more people to do fates for the lowbies so they can actually finish FATEs, but as I posted another thread on this a couple weeks ago, said rush of high level players actually makes it harder on lowbies to get anything better than Bronze sometimes.

I think what Turin is trying to say, is that no... we don't necessarily want Atmas in harder DF content. We already have a bunch of DF-type content to do already.

However... d'you think we could at least have these Atmas dropping from Lv30-50 content that actually has better gameplay (instead of mashing the same 1-2 buttons over and over and over again), that can actually drop decent items (instead of lolanimalskins) that might sell for actual gil (Toad/Coeurl/Raptor/Karakul Skins tends to sell far better than Animal Skins, for example judging from prices I see on the Market Board)?

For the lowbies... simply reduce how stinking hard Low-Level FATEs, especially Minibosses, are to solo. Make the Minibosses scale with # of people attacking it at the time to keep it a reasonable challenge no matter how many people are attacking it. Reduce the ridiculous respawns and/or # of items/kills/etc needed to finish the FATE if there's no players currently active in that FATE, etc etc etc.

EDIT: Also, some FATEs (those started by NPCs), the Timer does not start ticking until the NPC has been activated. IMO, all Pre-30 FATEs should work this way. The NPC should remain in the game world for 15min, and the FATE lasts 15min after he's activated. No more "This fate has been untouched for 10min, newbie comes along with 5min left and has no chance whatsoever at actually succeeding it".

Edited, Apr 23rd 2014 8:24pm by Lyrailis

"Deserve." There's that word again. Let's just create class differences because reasons. The problem with the RNG, as Thayos and others have stated, is that it does not reward "work" or "effort" in a fair way. You can get completely lucky and be working on your Animus within 8 hours of receiving the quest, or you can be trapped in the Atma Hell for over 40 hours of game time. By that logic, the 40+ hour person has put much more "effort" into getting their Atma than the 8 hour guy.

Much of the reasons listed in this thread revolve around "effort" and "work," with a mention of alternate paths of progression generally linked to the two. The implication being if you're not "good enough" to get a weapon via T5, or Levi EX, or T7, then the option is, of course, Atma. But Atma ignores effort, because it's completely random. If the 40+ hour guy had the option to dedicate time to learn T5 or whatever, then obviously he would, and even if RNG is a **** to him there he at least is gaining tomes, experience, and unlocking further options via weathered weapons. But this guy can't; that's why he's going after Atma. It's something he can do without obligating himself for more than a few minutes at a time. It's something he can hop on and attempt to make progress on even if he only has ten minutes to do so.

Ideally, effort expended for each of these "alternate paths" should be about equal. In other words, it should take about as much "effort" to get Atma as it does to get comparable items (in this case, most likely Levi EX and T5 weapons). But thanks to the RNG nature of things, the amount of "effort" varies wildly.

For example, me and a couple of my friends. I've been hunting Atma since the second day of the patch (couldn't play the first day). I just received my 6th one tonight. It's been about two weeks since patch? Something like that. I've spent over 25 hours between Southern Thanalan, Upper LN, and Western LN, trying to get those Atma. No luck yet, and to give you an idea of the "effort" I've put in, I received the Kill Enemies rank 5 achievement last Saturday (the 19th) and I'm already over 5k deep into the final one. Sure, some of those are trash from roulette runs, but the vast majority are from FATE's. And I don't even stay the whole FATE most of the time! Toss out Overpower's until I bottom out on TP, kill the stragglers attacking me and then move on.

My friend, the Bard, has been farming the Atma since patch day. He has put almost 50 hours into Atma farming since then, basically making it the go-to thing he's doing besides roulette and Titan. He has received one Atma. 50+ hours for one compared to 40+ for six.

Finally, there's my friend, the Paladin. He has spent maybe a total of 5 hours doing FATE's, almost all of them incidental (i.e. he was passing by and "OH! Hey! A FATE!"). He has received seven Atma. He has a wife, toddler, and full time salaried job that usually occupies him for 60-70 hours a week. And with 1/10 of the time put into acquiring Atma, he has received more than I have, and WAY more than my Bard buddy. Great for him of course, but overall it's indicative of a bad system.

Effort put forth towards a goal should rewarded, with greater effort receiving greater rewards. Anything less is blatantly unfair.

And yes, I know the world is not "fair." The fact of the matter is, we get enough of that ******** outside in the real world everyday. I don't know about anyone else, but when I come home and play a video game for the purpose of entertainment I don't want to face the soul-crushing nature of random chance, laughing at me despite my best efforts. I get enough of that in the real world, I sure as hell don't need it in my games.

You don't, but when the drop rate is this bad there's a good chance your average player will NEVER get it before giving up in disgust.

Soldiery weapons require:
- You beat T5
- You beat T6
- You beat T7
- You beat the RNG on T7
- You farm 1300 Soldiery

They're not particularly easy to get when you consider the lockout, and the fact that you're probably lotting against 7 other people. For me personally I haven't even started progression into coil 2, clearing T7 and getting a drop would likely take weeks, if not months.

Levi Ex weapons require you to:
- Beat Garuda/Titan/Ifrit EX
- Beat the PF unless you have a static
- Beat the tiny chance for a mirror if you're inclined that way

Also not a particularly easy farm, clearing Titan EX in the DF at the moment is a major pain in the ***. Simpler than coil I think for sure, but still not trivial. It took me about 20 runs to get my Axe from Levi EX, with countless terrible parties along the way.


Basically, if you're a casual player and don't have a solid FC or static, then chances are you might be gated behind Titan EX or Turn 5. It's these people who have a very valid reason to be complaining about Atma/Animus grind. Because for them, there actually is no other reasonable path to upgrading their weapons. I'm still not sure why two separate weapon paths are gated behind second coil (Gerolts and High Allagan) but I suspect they'll be adding an alternative to acquire Gerolt's in 2.3.



Edited, Apr 24th 2014 9:07am by blowfin

Casual =/= bad player. Actually beating the contents and getting capped soldiery is not that much of a time-consuming task. It just takes skill. Neither is getting your Atma weapon. It just takes patience. I'm a casual player by all definitions of the word. Maybe an hour or two played per day, sometimes I don't play at all. It took me a ~month to get my Atma that way. It's not out of casual's reach, and neither is the rest of the progression paths if the player doesn't suck at the game. They really do not require such a time investment that casuals couldn't pull it off in a reasonable timeframe.

What you're saying is bad players have no resonable path to upgrading their weapons, but why would they deserve them? They don't deserve the weapons if they don't have the patience nor the skill required to do what is asked. Handing out free weapons of equal strength while the rest of us are doing content that requires our patience and skill would be a huge insult.


Edited, Apr 24th 2014 10:27am by Hyanmen

I think we are almost reaching an understanding. Casual players can do the (what you'd call) engaging content because casual players are not necessarily bad players and said engaging content does not require a significant time investment in this game. And if it's not challenging (engaging) then it is going to be easy and tedious (which you can do at your own pace), whether it be about doing FATEs or doing something else.

Edited, Apr 24th 2014 10:55am by Hyanmen

I am not saying things should be gated at all.

Reason? Everything in this game is gated. We finally have something that isn't.

If you think Novus weapons will contain the same level as the current endgame dungeon's final turn, you're sadly mistaken.

From that thread:



So if it is i155, it's going to require you do a little bit more than grind low level FATEs. Think they're going to add another path of progression for endgame users when we already have several? No, they won't. Requiring a T9 kill? Yeah...gonna say that Zodiark will remain a casual-based progression path.

Edited, Apr 24th 2014 7:58am by HitomeOfBismarck

I just made a decision pretty early on that I wasn't going to waste more than an hour a day trying for an atma since my play time is precious and I'm not really in a hurry to get an Animus for content I won't be doing.