All of those things are extremely easy to accomplish when your entire party is actually alive.
I don't call "not being dead" a DPS check.
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There is really no DPS check element to Titan EX like there is with the two other EX fights. As long as everyone actually stays alive, there should be no problem with breaking gaols or heart. But that's the problem, everyone staying alive.
The DPS check is post heart, the faster you kill Titan the better. Before people get KO'd by w/e they ***** up with.
Echo certainly helped me get my clear last night. We had 4 people downed by an
Of course, if your groups are having trouble getting to that point, then that's another story. Echo certainly makes a difference in the last phase though.
P.S. Before I cleared it I would have agreed with you regarding Echo not making a difference, however, I know it's not true now through experience.
Edited, Apr 11th 2014 12:13pm by blowfin
Fynlar wrote:
All I can say is:
The furthest I've gotten in the fight pre-2.2 is seeing Earthen Fury (which wiped the remainder of the party that still miraculously happened to be alive at that point)
I have never seen past that, even with Echo buff active. In fact, I still usually don't even GET to that point.
I've never had much of a problem with tanks getting their asses kicked in this fight, even before 2.2. Mountain Buster seems arguably WEAKER than it did in Titan HM, assuming you don't let the debuff stack past 2. The problem was them getting Landslided, which (as already established) Echo does nothing to help for.
Edited, Apr 4th 2014 9:50pm by Fynlar
The furthest I've gotten in the fight pre-2.2 is seeing Earthen Fury (which wiped the remainder of the party that still miraculously happened to be alive at that point)
I have never seen past that, even with Echo buff active. In fact, I still usually don't even GET to that point.
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The echo makes it easier to tank, however. The Mountain Busters in the final phase are a little less threatening when you have way more HP.
I've never had much of a problem with tanks getting their asses kicked in this fight, even before 2.2. Mountain Buster seems arguably WEAKER than it did in Titan HM, assuming you don't let the debuff stack past 2. The problem was them getting Landslided, which (as already established) Echo does nothing to help for.
Edited, Apr 4th 2014 9:50pm by Fynlar
Fynlar wrote:
All of those things are extremely easy to accomplish when your entire party is actually alive.
I don't call "not being dead" a DPS check.
I don't call "not being dead" a DPS check.
Uh...how would you know? You have admitted to not being past heart phase which means you haven't seen half of what he is talking about.
Breaking a DPS out of a gaol before tumult occurs is a pretty big thing. Else, you end up sticking him in a landslide. Quite a few PF/DF groups I've seen have had issues with this. I've also died multiple times due to lack of DPS on healer gaol with all DPS up.
Tank buffs and healing buffs allow healers to switch to cleric's stance more often as well. This speeds up the heart phase substantially, making it so you almost always will never see the 5 way landslide during that phase (just the bombs) at around 10-20% echo.
The heart breaking before landslide goes off on circular bombs during heart phase is a DPS check which increases success substantially.
Killing the gaolers fast enough so that they are dead before you have to dodge the landslide/bomb combo is pretty big too. Yet another DPS check.
Same with the super bomb.
In fact, the echo buff DOES protect against party members dying. It used to be the case that having more than two people die (in a hardcore group) meant you would not pass any of the DPS checks and hit enrage. Now, even if one DPS is down, you can still down it with 3 DPS. It no longer is a case where all DPS have to be alive.
The echo also allows people to eat a bomb (to be safe) on the post-heart x bomb + landslide combo section instead of trying to dodge landslide and getting killed by two bombs or being knocked off.
Edited, Apr 11th 2014 6:15am by HitomeOfBismarck
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Uh...how would you know? You have admitted to not being past heart phase which means you haven't seen half of what he is talking about.
I've beaten the fight now. Happened upon a PF group that was advertising itself as a FC looking for a rep, and they managed to down it without much hassle.
Quote:
Breaking a DPS out of a gaol before tumult occurs is a pretty big thing. Else, you end up sticking him in a landslide. Quite a few PF/DF groups I've seen have had issues with this. I've also died multiple times due to lack of DPS on healer gaol with all DPS up.
I've never seen a gaol not be broken unless there were dead DPS (or unless people didn't split the gaols). It is not hard to do and barely even qualifies as a DPS check. To me something more resembling of a DPS check is something like Ifrit's 13 or whatever nails, something that I have actually seen get failed at a lot even with the entire party still alive.
As for the rest, I still haven't had Echo help any of my groups win (at least, the groups that were having trouble without it to begin with). In most of these groups, most of the things you said don't even matter because we don't even get to those particular points, Echo or not.
Edited, Apr 11th 2014 6:34am by Fynlar
kenage wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
In fact, there is a circle bomb pattern at the end of the heart phase combined with a penta landslide that is pretty difficult for most groups to dodge. The echo definitely helps to bust the heart before this phase (or at least after the bombs drop but before the landslide to make for an easier dodge).
The problem is that in all the videos posted, the dps were uber and killed the heart before that bomb pattern. But regular folks will definitely see it.
The problem is that in all the videos posted, the dps were uber and killed the heart before that bomb pattern. But regular folks will definitely see it.
Most of my groups don't even make it to this point (or, if they do, they have already half-wiped anyway so the rest of the people alive have already resigned themselves to the fact they're gonna wipe)
There is really no DPS check element to Titan EX like there is with the two other EX fights. As long as everyone actually stays alive, there should be no problem with breaking gaols or heart. But that's the problem, everyone staying alive.
1) Gaols have to be broken before they kill the person trapped.
2) The heart has to be broken before Titan jumps.
3) Adds (galoers) have to die before the grant Titan the determination buff.
4) At least one bomb during the Super bomb (the post-heart bomb pattern where you have no safe spot) has to be broken in order to survive.
I guess other than the heart we can argue that these are "soft" DPS checks but I find reasonable to think that 99 of each 100 groups unable to meet these checks won't win the fight, hence they are more or less required to win.
100% in agreement.
Lyrailis wrote:
Nashred wrote:
Well if you didnt hates fates before you will be after this.. I never want to do another fate again.. Se has got brilliant at forcing people to play content now.. I dont think that is a good thing because if people start to hate content they start not wanting to play.
I dont understand fates are a big part of this game why make content that is going to burn people out on such a major part of the game..
I think fates were used to much before this and there are two many. Fates should be far and few between more like odin and that would make them more exciting, give them some awsum random drops too...
I dont understand fates are a big part of this game why make content that is going to burn people out on such a major part of the game..
I think fates were used to much before this and there are two many. Fates should be far and few between more like odin and that would make them more exciting, give them some awsum random drops too...
Eh, the problem is, FATEs are one of the best ways to level a DPS class, assuming it is your 2nd+.
On your first class, the Main Questline will give you a lot of XP so you don't notice it.
But on your 2nd+ class, Duty Finder takes a LOT longer if you're a DPS and might not be a very optimal way to level your character. Not everybody wants to blow Leves on DoM/DoW classes; they'd rather save those for crafts, especially DoL (since those tend to be mind-numbingly boring IMO).
So what does that leave a DPS DoM/DoW?
Quests (these are one-time).
FATEs.
Randomly Kill Mobs (this would take foooooooooooooooreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr).
We don't want to reduce the frequency of FATEs, because we need those FATEs to level our characters (seriously, Fates <Lv30 give a LOT of XP, especially in the 5-15 range). At Lv10-ish, one FATE is 30-50% of a level.
That is, assuming people are actually doing FATEs, or the FATE in question is not one of those "impossible to solo" ones that I hate.
So yes, please don't go asking for them to reduce frequency of FATEs. Those are very much needed when leveling lowbie classes, especially DPS.
I understand what you are saying but that was my point, I wish it was more of a random thing and not used as a mindless way too level.
You can run dungeons and do other things to level ..
I wish fates were fewer and much harder and much longer and required some skill, I wish they didn't pop in the same area and the same spot all the time either... Right now they are a mindless way to level.. No skill involved and boring.. That is why everyone stopped doing them for a while too...
It would be like hey there is so and so fate out in east shroud just like they do with Odin... This would make them far more fun and epic...
Edited, Apr 11th 2014 10:58am by Nashred
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix
FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
Server: Phoenix
FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
Quote:
You can run dungeons and do other things to level ..
You failed to address my point that the alternatives suck:
Dungeons: If you're DPS, it takes way too long to get one unless you know a tank/heal friend.
Killing Mobs: Way too slow.
Quests: These are one-time, if you're on your 4th+ class, you're probably out of quests by now.
Leves: Limited, you may or may not need them for something else.
Now, if they'd... tweak some of the above to make FATEs not so damn important for leveling, well.... then yeah. You could make FATEs a little less common, and more rewarding whatever.
Lyrailis wrote:
Quote:
You can run dungeons and do other things to level ..
You failed to address my point that the alternatives suck:
Dungeons: If you're DPS, it takes way too long to get one unless you know a tank/heal friend.
Killing Mobs: Way too slow.
Quests: These are one-time, if you're on your 4th+ class, you're probably out of quests by now.
Leves: Limited, you may or may not need them for something else.
Now, if they'd... tweak some of the above to make FATEs not so damn important for leveling, well.... then yeah. You could make FATEs a little less common, and more rewarding whatever.
No that's your opinion the alternates suck.. Personally I prefer dungeons to fates for exp and that's my opinion.
Edited, Apr 11th 2014 11:36am by Nashred
FFXI: Nashred
Server: Phoenix
FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
Server: Phoenix
FFXIV : Sir Nashred
server: Ultros
There really isn't anything they can do to "tweak" the fact that dungeons wait times suck for DPS, other than add in another set of tank/heal classes. 
Catwho wrote:
There really isn't anything they can do to "tweak" the fact that dungeons wait times suck for DPS, other than add in another set of tank/heal classes.
I understand this wholly; I play WoW too and I know full-on that there are simply more DPS classes and players than Tanks or Heals.
I was more directing that comment more that they could improve Leves and Killing Mobs. Improving Dungeons is... as you say... incredibly difficult, if even possible.
EDIT: Oh, and BTW if WoW is any indication, adding another tank/healer class won't make much of a dent in the demand. WoW did that in MoP with the Monk class (which can be tank OR heals), and the queues have not changed much at all. They did a little, but you still commonly wait 10+ minutes as a DPS to get a Heroic Dungeon. Sometimes on some popular nights you might get lucky and see one at 5min, but this is uncommon from my experiences.
It probably simply comes down to fewer players enjoying the Tank/Heal experience and the stress those two roles place upon the player.
Edited, Apr 11th 2014 9:13pm by Lyrailis
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