There is this assumption that you can just leave dead bodies littered in CT since they can always return to the start and rejoin you.
This is bad, and here are a few reasons why:
- If someone is crash prone and they crash the second they hit Return, they'll be kicked out the instance. (This just happened to me this morning. Now that group probably thinks I abandoned them.)
- Raising someone ensures they will probably not be locked out of the next fight. If they return, they still have to run back, and we all know how impatient people get.
- Raising your fellow healer immediately means they can help you out. Yeah, **** gets hectic in there, but a healer hanging out on the floor means twice as much work for you. Slap in some Swiftcast to your Raise macro and at least spend the 3 seconds it takes mid battle to get them up. If a DPS dies in the meantime, the newly raised healer can get them up.
- A weakened person is perfectly capable of standing on the platform at Atomos. A weakened tank is perfectly capable of manning the tower at Behemoth.
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WHMs/SCHs: Raise people in CT, darnitFollow
Catwho wrote:
There is this assumption that you can just leave dead bodies littered in CT since they can always return to the start and rejoin you.
This is bad, and here are a few reasons why:
- If someone is crash prone and they crash the second they hit Return, they'll be kicked out the instance. (This just happened to me this morning. Now that group probably thinks I abandoned them.)
- Raising someone ensures they will probably not be locked out of the next fight. If they return, they still have to run back, and we all know how impatient people get.
- Raising your fellow healer immediately means they can help you out. Yeah, sh*t gets hectic in there, but a healer hanging out on the floor means twice as much work for you. Slap in some Swiftcast to your Raise macro and at least spend the 3 seconds it takes mid battle to get them up. If a DPS dies in the meantime, the newly raised healer can get them up.
- A weakened person is perfectly capable of standing on the platform at Atomos. A weakened tank is perfectly capable of manning the tower at Behemoth.
This is bad, and here are a few reasons why:
- If someone is crash prone and they crash the second they hit Return, they'll be kicked out the instance. (This just happened to me this morning. Now that group probably thinks I abandoned them.)
- Raising someone ensures they will probably not be locked out of the next fight. If they return, they still have to run back, and we all know how impatient people get.
- Raising your fellow healer immediately means they can help you out. Yeah, sh*t gets hectic in there, but a healer hanging out on the floor means twice as much work for you. Slap in some Swiftcast to your Raise macro and at least spend the 3 seconds it takes mid battle to get them up. If a DPS dies in the meantime, the newly raised healer can get them up.
- A weakened person is perfectly capable of standing on the platform at Atomos. A weakened tank is perfectly capable of manning the tower at Behemoth.
They should be raising period... Lost count how many times I've gotten stuck on raise duty as a SMN. In an 8 man event (or 24 in the case of CT) there is no excuse to not raise party members as a single healer to keep the pt alive long enough for the OTHER healer to raise....DPS should not have to stop DPSing to raise a needed member (especially if it is the off tank) mid-fight. The only reason why I have Resurrection on my hotbar is if a healer or BOTH healers somehow kick the bucket.
I don't know if you're talking about raising people in other parties or what, but I don't have alliance windows up (too much clutter on the screen as it is) and I also filter alliance chat, so I pretty much never even know if someone in another party needs a raise unless said other party is consistently getting their asses kicked.
Depends:
1. I will not cure people who refuse to dodge, no lag is not an excuse when the monster has ample charge up time.
2. I will not cure tanks who don't interrupt/stun drias (since for whatever reason 4+ BRDs simply can't be assed to.) or crapsule blade or even attempt to dodge.
3. If you die because of above, I leave you dead and let your party deal with the clean up.
In my party, I'll gladly raise people that die, but other parties? Not really unless it's a tank and/or healer(s) and we asolutely need them. Sometimes, you just have to let them learn the hardway. DPS above all I leave dead if I see them stand behind a comet in a tornado when there's 2-3 other perfectly fine comets to stand behind.
Seems ****** but quite frankly, it's easy to see who's actually doing what they should be doing. Atomos is a good example, especially if your party happens to be 2-4 brds for DPS..why is it so hard to silence a dria when it's casting on the platform? You're already DPSing it. If the other parties are slacking I'll definitely raise up the healers and what not since it'd only hinder the run, but if they're trolling/absolute ****, I'll leave them to their own devices.
1. I will not cure people who refuse to dodge, no lag is not an excuse when the monster has ample charge up time.
2. I will not cure tanks who don't interrupt/stun drias (since for whatever reason 4+ BRDs simply can't be assed to.) or crapsule blade or even attempt to dodge.
3. If you die because of above, I leave you dead and let your party deal with the clean up.
In my party, I'll gladly raise people that die, but other parties? Not really unless it's a tank and/or healer(s) and we asolutely need them. Sometimes, you just have to let them learn the hardway. DPS above all I leave dead if I see them stand behind a comet in a tornado when there's 2-3 other perfectly fine comets to stand behind.
Seems ****** but quite frankly, it's easy to see who's actually doing what they should be doing. Atomos is a good example, especially if your party happens to be 2-4 brds for DPS..why is it so hard to silence a dria when it's casting on the platform? You're already DPSing it. If the other parties are slacking I'll definitely raise up the healers and what not since it'd only hinder the run, but if they're trolling/absolute ****, I'll leave them to their own devices.
Quote:
1. I will not cure people who refuse to dodge, no lag is not an excuse when the monster has ample charge up time.
Uh... I beg to differ with this one.
40ms pings to google earlier, trying to do the Lv25 GLA quest.
I got hit 3 times in a row with a dodge-able frontal cone chargeup attack even though I was 10+ feet away from the NPC while standing behind her and the game still claims I got hit with the attack. I was outside of her attack halfway through its charging and I STILL got hit with it. This would hardly be the only time this has ever happened; I find it happens far more often than I'd like.
Oh, and she was also somehow meleeing me while standing 15 feet away from me and my character was swinging away at her too, again, 15+ feet away.
The game has fairly horrible hit detection sometimes, and yes lag IS an excuse sometimes.
Edited, Mar 30th 2014 5:30pm by Lyrailis
Admiral Niknar wrote:
Catwho wrote:
There is this assumption that you can just leave dead bodies littered in CT since they can always return to the start and rejoin you.
This is bad, and here are a few reasons why:
- If someone is crash prone and they crash the second they hit Return, they'll be kicked out the instance. (This just happened to me this morning. Now that group probably thinks I abandoned them.)
- Raising someone ensures they will probably not be locked out of the next fight. If they return, they still have to run back, and we all know how impatient people get.
- Raising your fellow healer immediately means they can help you out. Yeah, sh*t gets hectic in there, but a healer hanging out on the floor means twice as much work for you. Slap in some Swiftcast to your Raise macro and at least spend the 3 seconds it takes mid battle to get them up. If a DPS dies in the meantime, the newly raised healer can get them up.
- A weakened person is perfectly capable of standing on the platform at Atomos. A weakened tank is perfectly capable of manning the tower at Behemoth.
This is bad, and here are a few reasons why:
- If someone is crash prone and they crash the second they hit Return, they'll be kicked out the instance. (This just happened to me this morning. Now that group probably thinks I abandoned them.)
- Raising someone ensures they will probably not be locked out of the next fight. If they return, they still have to run back, and we all know how impatient people get.
- Raising your fellow healer immediately means they can help you out. Yeah, sh*t gets hectic in there, but a healer hanging out on the floor means twice as much work for you. Slap in some Swiftcast to your Raise macro and at least spend the 3 seconds it takes mid battle to get them up. If a DPS dies in the meantime, the newly raised healer can get them up.
- A weakened person is perfectly capable of standing on the platform at Atomos. A weakened tank is perfectly capable of manning the tower at Behemoth.
They should be raising period... Lost count how many times I've gotten stuck on raise duty as a SMN..
Been awhile since I played SMN but...did SMNs lose access to Resurrection? Since generally it is up to the SMNs to raise while letting WHM/SCH focus their MP on who actually needs it.
Quote:
.DPS should not have to stop DPSing to raise a needed member
Think this is why people usually want SMNs to do it, because a healer shouldn't have to blow a chunk of MP on raising people multiple times, especially when they're watching the tank in CT, for example your party is MTing behemoth and you get stuck with a squishy tank xD.
MP isn't the only reason summoners are sometimes the first line on a raise. Swiftcast can be very critical for things other than raise. A mini-benediction or a near-instant medica can be a clutch save in situations where people are dropping, and they aren't available if it was just used to pick someone up.
♪ Kin Jehn : Behemoth
I only have CNJ to 32, but do healers ever get into a brain lock where you're like "I want to raise him but oh god everyone is dying and I must heal them and if I stop to raise him they will die but if I raise him then the fight will go smoother but..." ?
Edited, Mar 31st 2014 12:15am by reptiletim
Edited, Mar 31st 2014 12:15am by reptiletim
If you have a SCH in the party, they have zero MP issues in almost any fight (I am both a SCH (i90) and WHM (i88)). If Swiftcast is up, I'd assume the SCH will raise, then the SMN and only if that's not possible, WHM. The reason is that WHM doesn't have anything like the MP recovery of a SCH or SMN. However if what your running isn't time critical, a WHM can pick people up as often as the other two and a BRD can always stick up a few seconds of ballad to help. In fights where it is time critical it is simply better if people don't die.
Ideally though a swiftcast raise should as a priority come from an Arcanist, simply because of their incredible MP regen. I do it both on SCH and SMN. WHM, the odd raise isn't an issue but multiple is almost impossible without a BRD who doesn't mind gimping their dps with ballad for a bit.
Ideally though a swiftcast raise should as a priority come from an Arcanist, simply because of their incredible MP regen. I do it both on SCH and SMN. WHM, the odd raise isn't an issue but multiple is almost impossible without a BRD who doesn't mind gimping their dps with ballad for a bit.
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Quote:
I only have CNJ to 32, but do healers ever get into a brain lock where you're like "I want to raise him but oh god everyone is dying and I must heal them and if I stop to raise him they will die but if I raise him then the fight will go smoother but..." ?
It happens, for a while.
Then you realize that 95% of the time raising the guy is going to be pointless either because he's just going to die again within 15 seconds of losing his raise immunity (and 95% of THAT time, it'll be because the raised guy resumes attacking as soon as he is able to, which sheds your raise immunity immediately and very often lets them get immediately killed again before they can even be healed), and that it's usually better off to focus on keeping the unweakened people unweakened.
Once you hit a lull in the fight where you actually feel like you can comfortably get a raise off, THEN you do it. But if you're panicking on whether or not you should do it, the vast majority of the time, you shouldn't.
Alternatively, if a SMN is in the group, they can do it. It's pretty much like how BRDs in FFXI got relegated to raise duty for serious events because your healers cannot afford to be spending time/MP on it, except here you might not always have a SMN around.
You realize the number 1 reason people dont raise?
No weakness affect, which means your less likely to die to the next ae, which you probably wont dodge either since apparently Dps cant be asked to stop dpsing just to dodge something.
I know when i go whm/sch in CT and i see people constantly dieing to things like meteor, frontal long cast ae, not getting on the platform during final boss... i let them stay dead, and hopefully while they have nothing else to worry about they can focus on watching the fight and seeing other people dodge.
No weakness affect, which means your less likely to die to the next ae, which you probably wont dodge either since apparently Dps cant be asked to stop dpsing just to dodge something.
I know when i go whm/sch in CT and i see people constantly dieing to things like meteor, frontal long cast ae, not getting on the platform during final boss... i let them stay dead, and hopefully while they have nothing else to worry about they can focus on watching the fight and seeing other people dodge.
Even so, you can still raise them after the fight so they're not scrambling to hit the teleporter and get to the next boss in 15 seconds.
Admiral Niknar wrote:
They should be raising period... Lost count how many times I've gotten stuck on raise duty as a SMN. In an 8 man event (or 24 in the case of CT) there is no excuse to not raise party members as a single healer to keep the pt alive long enough for the OTHER healer to raise....DPS should not have to stop DPSing to raise a needed member (especially if it is the off tank) mid-fight. The only reason why I have Resurrection on my hotbar is if a healer or BOTH healers somehow kick the bucket.
Sometimes DPS have to be more involved helping the party than simply providing moar damage all the time. Dragoons have to be ready to stun, Bards have to be ready to silence (or heavens forbid, ready to lower their DPS and use a song to help the party). Likewise, it doesn't take much out of a summoner's routine to Swiftcast a Resurrection.
I've played as white mage, scholar, and summoner at endgame, so I can say from experience that as a summoner, you shouldn't dismiss the importance of helping with raises sometimes. If you don't have a scholar in your group, the white mage or mages are going to be in trouble MP-wise if they have a lot of raising to do. Not only that, but Swiftcast is on a substantial timer, so it really helps when three people are down in a full party if you can lend a hand for a quicker recovery. Also, if the white mages themselves were just raised, their MP is going to be near empty without much hope of getting out of that jam, so you should be ready to help them with raises so they can at least focus on cures.
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