Is the loot system diverse enough?Follow

The loot system in every game is something that needs to be done properly to avoid abuse or griefing or just to function in general. In ffxi i think everyone will agree that system left something to be desired. In other games like tera you get a large selection of options for loot distribution so things were fair and everyone could see what those options were.

In ff14 the system is very simple yet does a good job of distributing gear...almost. You see there is 1 flaw in this system (some of you may dissagree here), that the GREED option for looting does not take into account the equipable level of the item, and the actual level of the jobs that can use it. Essentially that is the spirit of greeding an item, the fact you are not on the job that can lot it but want it anyway.

I was in a garuda ex party where a striking ring dropped, and we agreed to let the tank greed that ring because no one wanted it. Come the end of the run it drops and he greeds it...and so does someone else who ended up getting the ring. Now you can easily say "well thats how he system works so tough luck". And your right, that is how it works. However, this person who got the ring didnt even have monk or dragoon unlocked so they didn't have any business lotting on it anyway. But maybe there is a way to fix that.

I propose to add an extra button in between need and greed called "want". Need and greed will both function as they do now. Want though, would be for people not on the current job to equip the item, but have it leveled high enough that they could equip it if they won the item. This wouldnt stop people from breaking their word on drop rules, but it will keep those people unable to make use of an item at all from making an item a paperweight.

To fix the other issue about people breaking their word on lot rules, the party leader should have the option to change what the highest lotting rule will be. So if want is the highest, no one can need. If greed is the highest, no one can need or want. These rules would only be allowed to be changed outside combat otherwise this could be abused.

Although the current system handles drops pretty well, it could definatley be taken further. I dont see any cons to not make these changes. If you dont have a job high enough to equip an item you should never be allowed to receieve an item over someone who does. Even if you do eventually plan to level the job. If you want an item, level it up like everyone else did. The only time its ok, is when no one else wants it.

Dunno how I would feel about this. Well not me personally but everyone I run with since I have everything at 50.

I greed everything because even if I can't wear it, I can convert it to GC points. So in that sense, I can use it. Even if I don't have a job that can equip it.

Although if someone explicitly asks for a drop, I'll just pass it. You can't account for jerks in every use case scenario.

I think there should be a DF option to Need for a different class than the one you show up as (e.g. when you sign up for a Duty as a Warrior, there should be an option that would let you Need for Dragoon gear instead if you have it leveled up at least as high as your Warrior). I think that would go a long way to encouraging more tanks and healers to play.

The loot system in XI/XIV was an issue mostly due to the fact that anyone could play any class on the same character. Theoretically, anyone can wear any piece of gear. In games like WoW or TERA, you're restricted to one class and your class can only equip one weapon(WoW being the exception here) or armor type. When a boss is defeated in WoW you have x% chance to get a piece of loot. The roll is done immediately and if you roll high enough, the loot is automatically distributed. It isn't left to the players to keep their word and that's honestly the best way to do it.

In TERA, armor types are the only thing shared between players. It's much less of an issue when there is generally only one other class in the group who can roll the same armor type so it's a 50/50. Most dungeon gear is common enough that farming for the money to buy it is going to take less time than grinding a dungeon until you get the drop. Either way you're getting exp so there aren't really any issues.



As you stated, TERA allows the option to set distribution but it still requires the entire party to agree to whatever the setting is being changed to. Default is round robin but if you switch to class-specific, everyone in the group gets a pop-up saying that the party lead requested that the loot distribution be changed and all players have to confirm it before it goes into effect.

The only cons I see to your suggestions is that they don't actually solve the problem. With the already heavy burden of keeping players busy with content, I don't think it's worth the time for SE to develop and implement changes unless the changes are going to remedy the problem completely.



Edited, Jan 22nd 2014 3:17pm by FilthMcNasty

Current looting system is fine.

Implementing another tier will just make it so that Greed isnt used anymore. You cant base a loot system on a Gentleman's Agreement and expect people not to fall back on basic human nature.

This "want" thing simply means that you need the item, just not that much. Why not simply roll "greed" then?

Right now "greed" is more than sufficient and exactly the same thing. Do i "Need" the item? no. Would i like to get it? Yes -> "Greed".

Sneed? Please take heed, I need a sneed.
I plead for the sneed I need.

You say it's greed, but if you can read, you see that it's a sneed I need.
Upon my steed, while drinking mead, I've freed the weed that you'll need to make the sneed.

Will you do the deed? Will you accede?
If you don't, it's guaranteed I'll intercede and make you bleed.

After you've peed, please read my creed, and knead the weed to make the sneed.
Follow my lead, with hasty speed, let's breed with the treed swede.

Let's proceed, as we'd agree, to concede the need for the decreed sneed.

I want to get the Ultima Ring and Neck for Bard. Of course, every PF fills up the DD spots first.

I went healer last night just to fill a 7/8 Party. But wait, I have the Healer Neck and Ring already. I did it anyway just to be helpful, but nothing was to be gained.

Let me select, before entering an instance, which Job I want primary looting rights on. I'm asking for gear for just 1 job, so it's even right? The party leader should have an option to "Enable Need Lotting Job Selection."

You want to fill those pesky TANK and HEALER spots in the PF? Let the tanks and healers pick a different primary job for need lotting. Otherwise I'm just going to start a second PF for my Bard DD and we can both sit there waiting.


Edited, Jan 24th 2014 1:29pm by Gnu

Not sure I understand what you mean. Doesn't allowing people to play tank and healer, and still get the loot they want, help solve the not-enough-tanks-and-healers problem? It's an option, not required.

I have a tank too. I leveled jobs for each role so I could be most helpful to whatever party I'm joining. To get Bard drops I have to find PF with Bard slot available. Those slot fill fast!

Here an example, two parties are in PF:
Party A is looking for 2 tanks and 2 healers has "Enable Job Lot Selection" checked (which of course you would be able see in the PF window).
Party B is looking for 2 tank and 2 healers.

Which party fills first? Well, I am going to join Party A as a Healer and check Bark as my primary lot Job. I know a Tank in my FC looking for Striking for DRG. They will join as Tank and still get what they want. Etc. Ect. Party A is full.

Party B is still waiting for Tanks when another player, who HAS a 50 Tank with great gear but wants MNK drops, start Party C because he has to in order to get what he wants. I watch this happens all night, every night.

I have all these Job options but the loot system is limiting how helpful I can be.





Edited, Jan 24th 2014 2:16pm by Gnu

As long as you can't lot gear for jobs you haven't leveled, then speed is the deciding factor. If you can get 3 trips going as a tank in the time it takes to get 1 on a DPS job, you'd probably prefer going as a tank for shorter wait times and more opportunities to collect rewards. But if you really, really don't like tanking anymore and want to play DPS from now on would you truly want any more tanking gear if that were the case?

SpoilerActually, this one time in FFXI, we wanted a shell-mate to go an event as a BLM. But he insisted that he didn't want to play BLM anymore, told us he sold all his gear, made a big production about it, etc. etc. So we let him go as something else. Then a coveted BLM drop appeared, and he ninja lotted on it for the win against the 4 other people who actually showed up as BLMs.

On the other hand, if there's no distinct speed advantage anymore because this lotting approach evens the playing field, then it has done its job.

My highest level tank job at this point is GLD at lvl 22. I'm hoping to have a tank job, a healer job and a DD job available at lvl 50. BLM was the first one I leveled, and I'm still working on SCH and WAR.

Neither of us have any hard statistics to back up whether or not there are enough players with tank jobs leveled but simply opting not to play them. However, if I was going to try and use any anecdotal "evidence" to support one claim over the other, I would think that DF seek times for high level duty roulette for myth farming is a good indicator. How long does a tank have to wait to get into WP/AK/CBHM/HMHM? How long does it take a DD to do the same thing (it typically takes me 30+ minutes as BLM)? Myths are the same regardless of which job you go as. And at this point, most of the gear drops in those dungeons are hitting the floor, so it doesn't matter what job you go as. If there was a large enough percentage of lvl 50 DDs who also had a tank job leveled, wouldn't there be more of them switching to tank for lower seek time, and thus reducing the wait time for those who are stuck with or choosing to stay as a DD? If the role participation isn't balanced for myth farming, what are the chances that it's balanced for activities like Coil, CT, EX and HM Primals?

People who leveled a Tank job first got to level 50 faster than most people who took a DD job to 50 first because of lower seek times. They probably also finished getting their end game gear faster than a DD for the same reason. Because of that, there are probably more tanks who moved on to leveling a DD job than vice versa.

Ah! I see. That makes a very good case for there being a tank shortage in general. (Which, of course, I know there is in general, just that I would like to see the available tanks be more inclined to actually play on their Tank a bit more often! Myself included.)

This week I've been shooting for Bard gear. I've seen 20+ CT parties with tank spots that I didn't join, but could have. I've seen 20+ Ultima runs with Tank spots that I didn't join. I've sat around in PF, on Bard, waiting for parties to fill the Tank spot when I could have switched to Tank and got started a soon as the empty DD spot filled.

I guess I'm just thinking they can improve wait times (I could improve my own wait time that is for sure!!) with an option for Primary Lot Job Selection, and they can't really make more people play tanks/healers in general.

Maybe I am underestimating the effect that everyone in the party potentially trying to lot on the same item would have.

What I would like in this game is the ability to pass on something after already lotting on it, like you could in XI, for those instances when someone speaks up about wanting an item that you assumed nobody else wanted, or just for those moments when you lot by accident.