Do you use FFXIV APP? :: Free Realms

#27 Jan 22 2014 at 8:54 AM Rating: Excellent

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KojiroSoma wrote:

B) If SE intended for these things to be used, or even allows for these things, they would have implemented it in the first place.

If the good Lord had intended us to drive around in cars, he would have made us with wheels on our feet!

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#28 Jan 22 2014 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good

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svlyons wrote:

KojiroSoma wrote:

B) If SE intended for these things to be used, or even allows for these things, they would have implemented it in the first place.

If the good Lord had intended us to drive around in cars, he would have made us with wheels on our feet!

Rate up +1k Smiley: grin

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#29 Jan 22 2014 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent

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SillyHawk wrote:

preludes wrote:

That remains to be seen, if Square state FFXIV-APP (named after one of the worst cheating apps made for FFXI) is against the TOS (or simply refuse to reply at all) what does that imply if the program is left here to download, given the only information we have so far is that it's illegal to use ingame?

As of right now all we know is that using this can get you banned, yet the program is still there to download (they didn't remove the download link and advise users not to use it until this is clarified did they?). Will Zam get their users unbanned or take responsibility if they do? I don't think they will.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2014 8:09am by preludes

If I'm not mistaken, ZAM has gotten the ok to use this from their SE Rep hence it's being available here. If it turns out that this is against the TOS, I would imagine they would take down any reference to it. As with any software you use it at your own risk no matter where it came from, just wait until they allow us to create addons for the game.

He does have a little bit of a point.. If people are getting banned for it... Reps dont know everything either.
We may feel there is nothing wrong with the program and you are using at your own risk of coarse. No argument there.. But if Zam is saying it is ok for people to use and you wont get banned but people are getting banned that is not right to be saying yes use it it ok then ... Having a link to it and saying use at your own risk is ok.. Telling people it is ok to use it and people get banned that is not ok.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2014 10:11am by Nashred

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#30 Jan 22 2014 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good

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Some ones story is not matching up with reality... SE can't officially endorse any app unless maybe they endorse by revision number because things can change. I have a feeling that someone was using cheats or scripts that do not come with the app in question. Of course there's the whole problem of proof... But I would ask folks to look really hard at how the OP consistently bashes or attempts to cause issues in regards to ZAM itself.

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#31 Jan 22 2014 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good

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Wait, there are in game GMs? I was under the misunderstanding that SE just uses the report action and claim to review it. After a month or so someone may get banned. With all the bots that get reported and yet don't get banned this whole thing seems odd to me.

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#32 Jan 22 2014 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good

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Shiener wrote:

Wait, there are in game GMs? I was under the misunderstanding that SE just uses the report action and claim to review it. After a month or so someone may get banned. With all the bots that get reported and yet don't get banned this whole thing seems odd to me.

I don't understand why after all these years there isn't a parser BUILT IN to these games. Even one that tracks heals. I know you can beat the crap out of a dummy but we all know that's not going to do the trick.

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#33 Jan 22 2014 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent

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SillyHawk wrote:

A parser is nothing more than a tool that when used correctly can help improve your or friends play style. This guy felt it was ok to be-little the monk because his dps was lower and the monk was starting sh*t before hand. If anything this person was warned for being an ******** and picking on the monk. What they should of done was kick the monk as soon as it started to happen.

A parser, in this case, extracts damage information from your logs by scanning the text for patterns attributing recorded damage to the player that caused it and tallying the results for the prescribed duration. As long as it doesn't alter gameplay in any way or steal your credentials, there should be no way it's against the ToS.

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#34 Jan 22 2014 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good

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All i can say is anyone that is against parsers obviously has no idea what they are / how they work otherwise there would be no issue with an app that parses your dps.

Harassment is one thing, but a parser is nothing game breaking/changing/altering. All these people saying if they wanted parsing, it would be built it need to go look at the top 30 fantasy mmos, and realize everyone of them CAN be parsed, there are parsers for them, and maybe 1-2 of them actually have them built in.....and in NO GAME are parsers illegal. By sheer definition, they are reading log files, and not well at that.

I guarantee the staff uses some kind of parser when fine tuning their new events.

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#35 Jan 22 2014 at 12:08 PM Rating: Excellent

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This is SE we're talking about here.

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#36 Jan 22 2014 at 12:11 PM Rating: Default

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Perrin wrote:

Some ones story is not matching up with reality... SE can't officially endorse any app unless maybe they endorse by revision number because things can change. I have a feeling that someone was using cheats or scripts that do not come with the app in question. Of course there's the whole problem of proof... But I would ask folks to look really hard at how the OP consistently bashes or attempts to cause issues in regards to ZAM itself.

Read the screenshot, the GM took offence at FFXIV-APP in particular. Nothing else.

Also not my screenshot, it's from a redit post. Link is in the thread.

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#37 Jan 22 2014 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent

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Hmm, better get this cleared up before someone does get banned.

Sounds like not everyone at SE is aware that FFXIV-APP had been approved. It was likely approved by some other department. Without everyone at SE being 100% aware of the agreement, that's kinda like not being approved at all.

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#38 Jan 22 2014 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent

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Honestly i read the screen shot and the guy was lieing to the gm.

He obviously was using it and was talking about it, then pretends to be clueless. If i was a gm and someone was blatantly lieing to me id get offended too. I feel the gm was more offended on being lied to than if the guy would have maned up said "yes i use that log parsing program, it was sanctioned by yoshida himself and is hosted on zam.com if you care to go read what it does"

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#39 Jan 22 2014 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent

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According to the community rep Hvinire here: (emphasis mine)

Hvinire wrote:

The type of software you are describing in this thread doesn't appear to directly control anything for the FFXIV client, and as such isn't breaking any of the rules. Similar to other programs, 3rd party software is used at your own risk, and we recommend you employ your best judgement when running software not mentioned in the user agreement.

Square Enix obviously can't endorse one parser over another without having to endorse all of them, and any comment they make regarding FFXIVAPP could be considered an endorsement if it is to confirm it's allowed. In addition, any app they support they would have to assume liability for. As a result, Zam will continue to offer FFXIVAPP until Square Enix asks us to remove it, and I myself will continue to not only use it but continue work on my Logitech plugin I'm developing for it.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2014 12:37pm by Wint

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#40 Jan 22 2014 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent

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preludes wrote:

Perrin wrote:

Some ones story is not matching up with reality... SE can't officially endorse any app unless maybe they endorse by revision number because things can change. I have a feeling that someone was using cheats or scripts that do not come with the app in question. Of course there's the whole problem of proof... But I would ask folks to look really hard at how the OP consistently bashes or attempts to cause issues in regards to ZAM itself.

Read the screenshot, the GM took offence at FFXIV-APP in particular. Nothing else.

Also not my screenshot, it's from a redit post. Link is in the thread.

Don't always assume you're someone

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#41 REDACTED, Posted: Jan 22 2014 at 12:55 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Thread: [To the Community Reps] is it legal to use tunneling software or we will get banned?

#42 Jan 22 2014 at 1:00 PM Rating: Excellent

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I'm not doing this in this thread, it's being beaten to death ad-nauseum on the main forums. This part is good enough for me:

Quote:

doesn't appear to directly control anything for the FFXIV client, and as such isn't breaking any of the rules.

My interpretation is that any software, not just VPN tunneling software, that doesn't directly control the FFXIV client, isn't breaking any of the rules, and I will openly admit to any GM who cares to ask that I use it.

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#43 Jan 22 2014 at 1:03 PM Rating: Excellent

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preludes wrote:

Perrin wrote:

Some ones story is not matching up with reality... SE can't officially endorse any app unless maybe they endorse by revision number because things can change. I have a feeling that someone was using cheats or scripts that do not come with the app in question. Of course there's the whole problem of proof... But I would ask folks to look really hard at how the OP consistently bashes or attempts to cause issues in regards to ZAM itself.

Read the screenshot, the GM took offence at FFXIV-APP in particular. Nothing else.
[...]

That's not entirely true. The GM was clearly offended at the guy being a liar without actually saying "You're lying" there, with questions like "You named this app specifically to another member of your free company, yet you have no idea what it is?"

Either way, it's use and advocation, per what the GM said. Meaning it's Fight Club rules.

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#44 REDACTED, Posted: Jan 22 2014 at 4:52 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Contact a GM ingame, tell him you're using FFXIV-APP right now and see what he does about it.

#45 Jan 22 2014 at 8:27 PM Rating: Excellent

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Quote:

That's not entirely true. The GM was clearly offended at the guy being a liar without actually saying "You're lying" there, with questions like "You named this app specifically to another member of your free company, yet you have no idea what it is?"

Yeah the guy that reported it would have been reporting being griefed by another player, and noted they were using a parser. This is the crux of it really, it would have been a report of abuse.

Some points here:
- Parsing randoms and calling them out is bad form
- The guy lied through his teeth to the GM
- The GM was clearly trying to scare him after he realised this

I think the basic lesson is: Don't ream out random people over their DPS.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2014 3:19am by blowfin

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#46 REDACTED, Posted: Jan 23 2014 at 11:10 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wait, so ZAM was lying when they said this program was legal?

#47 Jan 23 2014 at 11:11 AM Rating: Excellent

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Killua125 wrote:

Wait, so ZAM was lying when they said this program was legal?

And he returns in true form!!!

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#48 Jan 23 2014 at 11:19 AM Rating: Excellent

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IKickYoDog wrote:

Killua125 wrote:

Wait, so ZAM was lying when they said this program was legal?

And he returns in true form!!!

He actually came back a few days ago ******** about the textures on Shantotto... or w/e that giant taru is...

His 90 days of juvy must have ended...

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#49 Jan 23 2014 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good

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Killua125 wrote:

Seems like the GM had been given specific instructions to find players using the APP.

I would be shocked if GMs were being tasked to proactively find players using illegal 3rd party tools that give them an unfair advantage over others. After all, how long have we seen mining bots warping around go unstopped?

Besides that, asking someone "Hey, are you using a cheat?" doesn't seem like the most effective investigation technique.

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#50 Jan 23 2014 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent

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No, we weren't. Still aren't. Going to lock this now.

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