Duty Finder and CoilFollow

Would there be any harm in adding Turn 1-5 of Coil to the Duty Finder with an ilvl requirement of 85 or so? I'm a shift worker, so static parties just don't work for me as most groups want to run the same day every week. This leads to having to find a pug every week to complete 1-4, 1-2-3 are completely fine with pugs, especially T2 with the enrage method. Usually within 1 hour, those are all complete. Then comes turn 4, which unless I replace a static member in a group, it's as painful as it gets.

Some weeks I will have literally spent 10+ hours running Turn 4 over, and over, and over with different randoms and it gets painful after awhile. I'll admit the party finder is nice, especially with the gear requirement you can add. Problem is, you limit the amount of players needing it to your server only. There's really only so much teaching you can do with new people before you become frustrated and just back out. Now, setting the ilvl to 85ish obviously doesn't guarantee a good player, nor does it guarantee that the gear the player has is mostly Allagan leading to them having completed Coil in the past. It does tend to attract stronger players overall, anytime I've completed the turn easily, everyone was heavily geared.

I've also seen the approach of a couple leaders who within 2-3 fights see 1-2 weak players and instantly kick and replace. This isn't bad and can get you results, but just feels wrong even when done politely. Sad part is, you see these ilvl 85-90 plds in pure myth gear and 90% of the time, they're terrible. It's as if they run the basic dungeons week in an week out and have no idea what to do for any of the slightly more complicated content. Anyhow, I'm just venting cause it's the same thing every week and short of getting into a static who rotates which day they run, I think I'm stuck with this until they come up with something else. /endrant.

Coil shouldnt be put in the DF.

Turn 1 is relatively easy, but it can still be like pulling teeth if people dont know how to position or pull slimes.

Turn 2 would be terrible since you wouldnt be able to do the enrage mode strat without that third healer. MAYBE you could do it with 2 fully pimped whm, but if they are that geared they wont be running coil in the DF.

Turn 3 is a joke so whatever.

Turn 4 requires a specific set up of jobs so unless the duty finder can distinguish between party slots this wouldnt be feasable at all.

Turn 5 would never be completed. Ever. This fight takes an extreme amount of practice and patience. You would absolutely have to do this fight with a static group because theres no way you can teach this to someone in an hour. A day. Even a week. Its THAT hard.

As for i lvl requirments...85 is too high for t1/2. Ilvl 70 is enough to deal with both those turns. Ilvl 80 for t4 is enough also, and ilvl 85 for turn 5 sounds about right. T5 i would say could be done with ilvl 80 also, but your group better be highly skilled.

I like how coil is seperate from the DF and i hope they make more content server only. This promotes people to communicate together and make friends. The game is lacking a real reason to do this currently since there isnt a lot you cant do in the DF.

I've done T4 without any (DD) mages whatsoever, so I don't buy in to the 'specific classes required' mindset, but as someone who mains dragoon and has a nightmare of a time pugging Coil every week… I absolutely feel people would drop with anything less than an "ideal" setup. It happens even now in HM primals, though it's certainly not required. While I certainly empathize with the plight of pugs—I've been doing it for months—I'm not certain DF if the answer. It could give people with lower iLevels or experience exposure to the content, but people could make groups for that with PF too. Honestly, Coil is one of the few things in game with an insular, server-only community, and most of the time I think that's a good thing.

Once you break their stoneskin they drop like flies. A war could finish them off quite easily while everyone moves onto the dread.

I think that adding it to DF would be a great way to introduce people who just passed titan and got their relic to the content... I'm in that boat right now, I just got my relic recently and am now needing to do coil... But don't have a static... And everyone wants you to know every fight before you run it for the first time... So your in a catch 22.

The only thing I disagree with is the item level 85 - I have relic, all Darklight and a couple of pieces of myth gear... And my item level is 75... So how would people who actually need to run coil benefit from an item level restriction of 85?

Edited, Jan 2nd 2014 8:22am by Hairspray

Sure it's easy to buy Myth gear... but it's also capped at 450... (better than 300 I realize, but still capped.)

I have reached the Myth cap every week since hitting 50 a month ago... and I have 2 pieces of gear to show for it... A ring and the boots...

I'm saving for the Relic +1 upgrade to Zenith weapon which I understand is the next best upgrade to get.

Coil should be a place to go to gear up... (it drops ilvl 90 gear so it makes sense to me that it should anyways.)

I realize you should watch a youtube video, but studying the fights in advance is not the same as actually doing the fights... it takes practice... I finally beat Titan HM with a Partyfinder group last week, I studied the rotations, and what to do, watched many videos, but in reality you just don't know the fight until you do it a few times... At least the Duty Finder gives people a chance to learn the content who are not in a static or haven't practiced it enough to be "Good Enough" for end-game.

Apparently in this game if you're geared for the content it's still not good enough... GOD FORBID you die on your first or second try, people in this game are horrible at making you feel that it's acceptable to be learning the content.

And I think that's my number one complaint about this game is the a-holes at end-game. It's enough to make me want to quit playing TBH.



Edited, Jan 2nd 2014 11:26am by Hairspray

Except when they force you to take items that you don't want and loot-lock you for a week... (True Story)

Yes, in CT, if a piece drops that you don't want, you NEED to pass on it, not let the timer run out.

Completely agree... DF would help those instances out a ton.

It's hard coming through that stretch of relic quests without it, especially now that most people finished that content and don't need it anymore...

Duty Roulette should also be used on it... to get people through content they otherwise would have a difficult time getting done.

Old, and especially required, content should never be too difficult to get through because its been abandoned by the majority.

By the time you have enough relic to get your ilvl up to 85+, you're either going to not need Coil drops (because the relic you have is BIS) or you're going to have wasted a bunch of myth on relic that gets displaced by Coil drops. To get ilvl 85, you basically need relic in every slot except for two (not counting the 2nd ring slot, since you can only have one Heroes ring). That's 5160 myths if you don't get two accessories, or 4590 myths if you choose to ignore body and head (probably not a good choice, especially if those are BIS upgrades). So that's anywhere from 11 to 12 weeks of grinding myths just to gain entry to Coil.

Doesn't that seem like an excessively high requirement for getting into turn 1?

I totally agree. Each of our 2 FC Coil statics have a DRG in them. One has a DRG and a MNK. Problem is when you check the PF and there is 1 coil group forming, they want 2 healers (don't specify between WHM or SCH), 2 tanks (they might specify here), 3 ranged DPS and 1 melee. Even if dps weren't over-saturated and all jobs had equal representation across the population, melee are still screwed in this system. The penalty to the LB bar since the patch isn't enough to get people to go with one of each job, and even with it you can take a BRD, BLM, SMN, and a MNK or DRG and you avoid the penalty.

For turn 4, that setup simply would not work for those party finder folks. Turn 1, ok. Turn 2, yes (since an easy way to pass rot is to have 3 ranged DPS and 2 healers = 5 total passers, leaving room for tank, OT, and 1 meele). But turn 4, no way unless one of those ranged DPS is a bard (since bard can hit knights and scholars.

Our party setup is as follows, and has been ideal to one shot turn 1-4 every single week. This Monday, we beat 1-4 in 37 minutes total. That's a new record for us.

1. Paladin - 2. Paladin - 3. White Mage - 4. White Mage / Scholar - 5. Bard - 6. Dragoon - 7. Black Mage - 8. Black Mage / Summoner

Turn 1, Bard is the slime runner, party splits into 1, 3, 6, 7 on first snake, 2, 4, 5, 8 on second snake. Dragoon LB 1st snake and rotates over to snake 2 on MT command.
Turn 2, Bard, OT, and MT rotate stuns, and 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8 pass rot.
Turn 3, we all hop down trampolines to happy land
Turn 4, We put 5 and 6 on knights, 7 and 8 on soldiers. 4 used to have to change to scholar, but we are all OP now with lvl 90 from tomes and drops so that isn't so much a necessity. I haven't even seen that room aoe on the last dreadnaught in well over 2 months.

The penalties to the LB bar shouldn't be too much of a concern. They are set up so that you should be able to beat them easily without needing LB.

Edited, Jan 3rd 2014 10:50am by Valkayree