Housing Prices - Opinion PollFollow

What are you talking about.. In FFXI I had 5 million gil and in this game I barely broke 100,000 gil... Nothing sells for anything on the damn broken board where everyone undercuts since they can see what everyone is selling for. Most dungeon drops and GC gear is better than crafted gear. Money is barely needed in this game but I would not say it is easy to come by..

I talked about a medium plot because you cited it in your example of casual friendly. And just fyi, after 90 days the price has bottomed out. It doesn't keep going lower. So legacy will ALWAYS be more expensive than new server unless all the plots sell on a new server and a new instance is opened resetting the prices, but that can happen on legacy too.

You want to know why it shouldn't take that long? Because it's not hardcore endgame content. You said it yourself, it has nothing to do with progression, so why should it take months on end to achieve? It's social content that is supposed to be a place for FCs to gather, hang out, and craft. Currently, that's all housing is, yet they are treating it like it's this amazing content that deserves months and months of work and more gil than most FC's will ever see in a lifetime of gaming.

For my FC to get the land we want, it's virtually unachievable currently. Or, if we did attempt it, it would require every member contributing every penny they could for months and months and months, playing every day for at least several hours JUST to pay for housing. Again I ask you, how is that casual? How is that in the best interest of any but the most hardcore and richest players?


You're right Hyanmen, it's all of us that are just too hasty. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with your outlook.

Unfortunately, your assumptions fail to account for things like fair market value and economics. What they just did with this pricing is an early Christmas present for RMT. They just increased the demand for gil 1000-fold, and while they have slowly increased the ability to make gil, the supply will not match the demand for a very long time at current pricing. This means far more people will resort to buying gil to afford housing. I'm curious SE even realizes that a huge chunk of the gil they accounted for in their server totals is RMT gil. The average players that I know have anywhere from 50k-500k. Even the heavy crafters I know have no more than 1-2m usually. I have 5 crafts at 50 and spent a fair amount of time just making gil and have less than 2m myself.

The problem is, they took gil from being very unimportant, to being the most important thing for players who actually want housing. It's not horrible for money to have value, if it's actually incorporated in a well thought out manner. This was not, and the game economies are going to suffer horribly for it.

Edited, Dec 17th 2013 11:15am by BartelX

Can someone please, please find out if furniture give buffs?

Buff to Stats? Crafting? Elemental Resistances?

So everyone else should have to suffer because you're so good at making gil? Not to mention, I've given you a breakdown on small plots, and also gave a breakdown on medium plots with multiple members. But to reiterate: A small plot on a new server is 8-10m gil. If you're talking about an individual making 8-10m gil, that's not a casual endeavor in the slightest. I've been fairly active in my 4 months so far, and would not even be 1/4 of the way there. And I play about 2-3 hours a day. So I think your definition of casual kind of interferes with what casual actually means. Even after the price is cut in half, I'm not even halfway there yet after 4 months of saving.

FYI, as I said as bluntly as possible in my last post, legacy server prices will drop to half their normal value in 3 months... so will new servers. They will never be equal in price unless all slots sell out in a new server and a fresh instance is opened, which can also happen on a legacy server. The concept is pretty straight-forward.

Lastly, it's only a status symbol because they MADE it a status symbol. Without outlandish pricing, it's housing made for FC's to buy and enjoy as a group... you know, how they've been touting it the entire time. It'd be one thing if this whole time they'd been claiming that the housing was a status symbol for the rich and hardcore. However, according to the devs and Yoshi-P, was meant for regular players to enjoy, and for average FCs of any size to acquire based on their number of members. They went so far as to claim that 4 average players at level 50 can afford a plot with just earnings 1-50. Sorry, I leveled 1-50, did almost all the allagan piece quests, and made about 500k. 500k x 4 =/= 8-10 million gil, the price of a small plot of land on a new server. Even after three months it's not even close.

So if you're argument is that it's ok because it's a status symbol and that you make more gil than others, I'd say that's pretty weak and rather selfish.

Edited, Dec 17th 2013 11:46am by BartelX

To be clear, I'm not pro-RMT. I just can't blame people who'd rather trade 20 hours of work IRL to save themselves much more time grinding in-game. Based on the reports that SE releases, the penalty isn't steep enough if there are thousands of people still taking that risk. Bans don't really thwart RMT. Need proof? See pudding.



I didn't say it was uncontrollable. In fact, I made the case for the opposite. SE has total control of the 'value' of gil. What perplexes me is that they are the ones who create the supply and demand. If they were really concerned with RMT, they've skipped over the first and most obvious place to make adjustments. Y4?

At least in a delay, they could be honest with us and just say it's not ready instead of trying to arbitrarily force players to way overpay for land (in a possible attempt to just lure out RMT or gilbuyers). It's deceitful if that's what happening, and a really stupid business move. As far as you being level 50 in all crafts, I actually edited it out of my post because after re-reading I wasn't sure if you were referring to yourself or not, which apparently you weren't. My apologies. However, here's where I pulled it from:





Again, I apologize, I didn't realize there had been an updated amount and that legacy prices would drop to match World Group 3.



So 4 players must bring in 15k every single day, for 3 months, just to barely afford the cheapest plot on the new servers. Oh wait, what happens if some other FCs buy up all the cheaper plots first and now you can't afford anything? A new instance is opened and BAM, you're now not even close to the smallest house again. What happens if all of the players can't get on 7 days a week to contribute gil? What happens if some of the players decide they want to spend some money gearing up jobs, or leveling a craft? Now you're 3 month plan just turned into considerably longer. Do you not see how hardcore this sounds? Not to mention, these 4 players would be completely broke upon buying their FC house if they're lucky enough to find one available. Wow, what fun game design.

Edited, Dec 17th 2013 12:15pm by BartelX

And in this game it is soooooooo easy to go from 1 to 50 you can start a character and be 50 in weeks again so the risk is not too bad.. I hate rmt and I dont care for those that buy gil. But look at FFXI did they ever get rid of them and how old is that game? Never...

Bartel give it up with Hyanmen you aint going to win, He obviously has way too much time on his hands so he does not understand what the average gamer is talking about.. Realized that after one reply to me.



Edited, Dec 17th 2013 12:42pm by Nashred

Yeaaaah I'm a filthy casual because I don't play this game every day. It's nice on days I can, but I still hang out in FFXI twice a week as there's always stuff to do there, and I have a full time job, a husband, and other hobbies besides video games. I get about two or three hours of game time in, three to four times a week, with the occasional day to burn a longer session (e.g. on a Sunday, or a holiday.)

Realistically, I earn about 80K-100K gil a week. Almost all of that gets re-invested back into crafting right now, or gear for gathering. I suspect that's the case for most players who aren't focusing on farming exclusively.

I guess we'll have to, because I don't see your point at all. In fact, I think it's incredibly selfish. Making everyone wait so that they can all enjoy the content simultaneously is much more fair than allowing the .1% to have their way for the foreseeable future while the rest have to endlessly grind.





Let's do the real math then, shall we? The 500k players earn from 1-50 has almost no bearing on this equation, since most probably spent it already leveling crafts and I'd go so far as to say the average casual has FAR less than 500k on them currently. It was used as a reference to what Yoshida said housing would cost for a small FC (which was obviously grossly underestimated).

We'll say each player has 100k to contribute off the bat without bankrupting them (which is high in a lot of cases). Hell, we'll call it an even 500k for 4 players. I'd say that's pretty fair. Now, these 4 players are casuals. Most casuals don't play 7 days a week, and they certainly don't take the 3ish hours required to get that 20k of gil each and every day. Dailies alone take well over an hour, and the dungeon roulette, based on class, takes FAR longer. So realistically, that 15k/day figure you mentioned is pretty inaccurate for casual players.

Yes, I realize you probably make more than that, but most don't. I know because most in my FC don't. At most, I'd say that casual players are probably going to do about 3-4 days a week for donations, and probably 10-15k each of those times. This is being realistic. So 4 players x 15k x 4 days per week (giving all benefits of the doubt) = 240k/week. So after 3 months of optimum investing they've made roughly 3m gil, plus the 500k initial startup. After 3 months, 4 casual players still can't afford the smallest house, working at a pretty heavy rate of gil contribution per player (I've yet to see ANY player in my FC donate 60k per week on a consistent basis).

And again, even if they COULD afford it, that assumes that plots are still available at those low prices. It also assumes that everything will remain constant in terms of gil contribution, that none of them will take vacations, or want to save any money for anything else they do. You keep mentioning 3 months as if somehow that's a fair amount of time to have to save up gil for a house that has no function other than vanity and social interaction (oh, and a status symbol, lol). Apparently you think that's acceptable. I don't. I think it's an unnecessary grind and a ******** system. There's really nothing more to discuss about it.

The reward outweighs being banned. The same was true in FFXI, hence RMT being so prevalent. The reward is also(sometimes) a steeper time investment in-game than it is IRL.

My point is that SE has more control over RMT than just a STF with banhammers. If I were RMT I'd be advertising packages for each sized lot. Sell the bulk amount of gil needed as a package. It's almost like SE, despite saying they calculated RMT impact, basically set them up for sales over the next few months.

I personally couldn't care less about the housing. I get that some people really like the idea and I understand why, but it doesn't have any value to me. Actually, I'd probably get kicked from FC for explaining to them that I don't care about housing and I'm not willing to contribute. I'm just trying to figure out what the reason for the way they implemented it is.

Are they in bed with RMT? Is the content just not ready and you need to stall it out for time? Did they just miscalculate how much the prices were? If you wanted people to be able to accomplish this in 90 days, why not just wait 90 days to implement it? Why not have it release over time where maybe the first month you get the plot, then the next month you build the housing and the third month you furnish it? At least that way people feel like they're progressing. I just don't get it.

The real problem is the massive (and surprisingly easy) hacks, bots and cheats that have been used to generate that gil.

You only get 200.000 from finishing the main story, and any amount of that you used on NPC gear and materials needs to be substracted too. There's no reason there should be this much gil on the server. The only way it could have come there is from hacking. Once their open database in the first week of the game got compromised and some people gave themselves 900 bilion gil because they could, SE should have wiped everything and started over. There's no way you can recover from that. And looking at the prices they think are justified, there simply is no way they can :/

Nope, I get what you're saying. I just think you're completely wrong. Allowing the top .1% to enjoy something that others can't for an extensive amount of time is a worse option than just having everyone wait until it can be put out on a much more equal playing field. That's all there is to it.

I think some people understood how significant it was, and I'm slow to catch on, but the restrictive prices are actually keeping the inadequate housing servers from being flooded.

So that's sad.