IS THIS the current state of mmo's too?Follow

I remember a whole ago when we had a discussion about how MMOs used to have explorable none instanced dungeons, and how progression took a lot longer was more harder and as such seemed more rewarding when you finally DID complete it (examples being CoP in FFXI prenerf and obtaining relic in FFXI as opposed to XIVs relic), with super rare items that were either so rare pr so hard to get that youd be lucky if you saw 10% of the players on the server with them (i.e nothing of which fits that description in FFXIV)

and basically everyone response summed up too, that was old and archaic and not how mmos are done now... that was the old way and will never be seen again and this is the new way (which in a random note I figured elder scrolls online would "save" the genre by going back to some of the old ways... I was saddened to find out a game known for its VAST worlds and exploration will have instanced dungeons too..)

Anyway I new conversation came up at work yesterday regarding FFXIV (yup 755 of us at work play ffxiv and mmos in general yet like none of us are on the same server lol) I made a comment along the lines of "I remember when MMOs used to have ACTUAL NEW content" (for example in FFXI sky, sea, dynamis, limbus, einherjar, salvage, assault, etc etc) as opposed to "new" content just being harder versions of preexisting content and calling it "new" (i.e ifrit.garuda/titan normal/hard and now EXTREME.. what next... ultra? then super saiyajin? lol) or copperbell mines and hakkue manor hard... aside from treasure hunt and crystal tower and wolves den the rest is just hard versions or old stuff (dont say duty roulette as thats more of a new feature not new content)


but anyway back on point.. his reply was, "thats the new state of MMOs, now, recycling/rehashing old content. Even WoW does it" to which I say "I would expect that from an F2P mmo but one that has a million ppl paying 15 bucks a month surely they can afford REAL new content. After all content is what separates a P2P from an F2P mmo.. just look at how "often" GW2 and DC universe online get new stuff. If rehashed old content is what I wanted I can get that from DCUO free and not pay a dime" but he instsist that thats just the way MMOs are now... sooo you guys tell me.. Is he corrrect or incorrect?

Sky: part of a new expansion
Sea: part of a new expansion
Dynamis: not sure if this was part of Zilart or not
Limbus: part of a new expansion
Einherjar: part of a new expansion
Salvage: part of a new expansion
Assault: part of a new expansion

See the pattern? I'm trying to think of FFXI content that was added but wasn't part of an expansion. The ones I can think of were rather lackluster, stuff like Fields of Valor. New content that was added without being a part of an expansion was basically just new activities within existing zones. As such, was that really any different than Extreme Mode Primals or HM Copperbell/Haukke? Even BCNMs were just new mobs in an existing battle field, which is basically the same thing that we're getting with HM Copperbell and Haukke.

I believe that we will see actual new content but it will be further down the road in an expansion. 2.1 is a large patch but it is still a patch and not an actual expansion. It certainly has some new content and some that is 'upgraded' rehashing of existing stuff. Most of the new stuff in 2.1 is, well not 'fluff' but not brand new progression content. I think the hard mode dungeons and extreme mode primals are there just to keep those of us who have completed most everything else busy until 2.2.

I am hoping against hope we eventually get an expansion that includes more openworld content. I wrote about it years ago how I don't mind instanced content when it is a trial balanced to challenge a player or a party. Much of the feeling of adventuring is lost when you can just tele 2 minutes from everywhere and anything worth doing is done in a 4-8 man instance that up queue up for in duty finder.

That and half of the BIS equipment is easily farmable if you play for a few hours a couple times a week. Even Relic +1 is commonly seen. Having all the relics isn't even rare. Also we all look the same. I would kill for a long questline or rare mob spawn that would drop something that was a side grade but visually striking as long as it was rare.

My dream expansion would be a vast new continent where tele crystals were rare and you needed a party to even travel somewhat safely to get to a fate or dungeon entrance. The dungeon itself would be openworld with NMs and such but also contain instanced battles to test your party. Then in 6 months or a year or whatever let us quest to build new teleport crystals and when the new expansion hits nerf the whole thing so everyone who wasn't up to the challenge can enjoy it.

I know its not going to happen since so many people would hate it but I can dream.

Edited, Dec 10th 2013 1:30pm by Yelta

I played DCUO for 2 years and was a legendary subscriber (Not F2P) the entire time... and trust me when I tell you they rehashed the same content over and over as well...

It's the same with all MMO's.



Edited, Dec 10th 2013 2:03pm by Hairspray

i actually liked that tbh lol.. if i had to wait months to get something maybe only 49 other ppl on a server for 5000 had.. then Im all for it

i know DCUO hjas rehashed content galore... but that game is also F2P and like they ssay "you get what you pay for" so in that games case I understand and expect it... in an P2P game however.. I do not

Except nothing else ever gave me quite as much satisfaction to complete each and every step. From building the parties to executing the fights well. The amount of preparation involved in making sure you were appropriately geared for your level cap and obtaining the best food and items to get you through the fight. Modifying the strategy since I had a non-optimum set of classes alone was a struggle and a triumph.

The rush of pulling off a win and taking that first step into new zone... Literally brought tears to my eyes.

Then doing it again to get friends through :D

Edited, Dec 10th 2013 2:45pm by Yelta

Walking 6 miles through snow uphill both ways might be your idea of fun. Don't be surprised that you're probably in the minority.


You make it sound like "wait and see" is something you only do grudgingly.

Yeah this is what a lot of people don't understand. These "take forever", "gated to hell", and other mindlessly pointless restrictions don't inspire people to engage in content and if they're not actively engaging in content you put out (or you've purposely attempted to make it so difficult/frustrating that they don'e even bother trying anymore) then they don't play, and you don't get their money.

For all the hype the story gets (I preferred WotG's as it's more emotionally stimulating if you actually finish the whole thing), CoP didn't really add anything useful to the game. The zones were, except for CLanding, Bibiki Bay, and the Isle, gated behind missions but didn't really give the common person a reason to go after. A good handful of them were level capped and not suited to level in due to monster choices and parties just went back to normal leveling/meriting areas until ToAU launched with squishy Tucan Sams.

And a lot of people forget that. WotG wasn't a terrific expansion either but at least there were several areas parties would form up for fairly regularly with no gating at all, whereas CoP purposely went out of the way to be annoying for not real reward.



Plus, FFXIV is also at an advantage in that it has a ton of games to pull from in terms of design and choices whereas WoW pretty much only has its own past to pull from.

You are delusional. The only end game content FFXI had before any expansions was Upper Delkfut's Tower.

Well it started as P2P, and I paid the entire 2 years I played because it was worth it in my opinion... until FFXIV came out.

yeah it started as p2p an dyou see how quickly it went f2p... so unless FFXIV plans to go f2p soon (which i highly doubt) i expect MUCH more out of it than dcuo