I'd like to get feedback from people playing the healer classes that have experience with end game.
I main Paladin and also has Monk at lvl 50. I raid as Paladin and my experience is up to T4. I have killed ADS in turn 2 two times now. It was with a group from my FC but not my static group (we only been raiding together for 3 weeks). Both times we killed ADS, we had a White Mage and a Scholar as the two healers. In my group, we have 2 white mages (one of the white mage is lvling scholar). My healing experience in FFXIV is only from looking at different healers playing.
I'd like to get the people advice on which healer is best for single target heals (tank) and which one is best for aoe heals. Our healers seem to struggle to keep everyone up against ADS in turn 2. Any tips for ADS is also welcome.
We kill the following nodes: Monitoring, Sanitory & Attack.
Thanks for your replies.
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WHM vs Scholar: who is better at what?Follow
For a normal run (in T2 or anywhere else), one of each is best. They are complimentary. With that said, 2 WHM or 2 SCH works perfectly well for a majority of 8 man content.
WHM's Stoneskin is 18% of targets HP instead of 10% because of WHM trait.
SCH Succor barrier has a similar damage mitigation effect, and a single spell can effect the whole party, best for when the party is already grouped up.
WHM's Medica II + Divine Seal is very strong.
SCH Sacred Soil barrier has a -10% damage effect to a certain area, again best if party is stacked together.
WHM get benediction, giving them a slight edge in the single target, main tank healing.
SCH's sustained heals over time are superior due to fairy.
Played well both of these healers are excellent. Clearly the game design favors one of each in your party..
For a limited time only, you can complete T2 ADS by the following method:
- bring 3 healers
- wait for 1 click to engage
- let ADS enrage
- while enraged ADS will NOT do any special attacks, including Rot
- have the party, including tank, stack up together
- the 3 healers simply spam AoE cures to offset the enrage damage
- have bards do a mage's ballad rotation so you don't run low on MP
Edited, Dec 10th 2013 12:14pm by Gnu
WHM's Stoneskin is 18% of targets HP instead of 10% because of WHM trait.
SCH Succor barrier has a similar damage mitigation effect, and a single spell can effect the whole party, best for when the party is already grouped up.
WHM's Medica II + Divine Seal is very strong.
SCH Sacred Soil barrier has a -10% damage effect to a certain area, again best if party is stacked together.
WHM get benediction, giving them a slight edge in the single target, main tank healing.
SCH's sustained heals over time are superior due to fairy.
Played well both of these healers are excellent. Clearly the game design favors one of each in your party..
For a limited time only, you can complete T2 ADS by the following method:
- bring 3 healers
- wait for 1 click to engage
- let ADS enrage
- while enraged ADS will NOT do any special attacks, including Rot
- have the party, including tank, stack up together
- the 3 healers simply spam AoE cures to offset the enrage damage
- have bards do a mage's ballad rotation so you don't run low on MP
Edited, Dec 10th 2013 12:14pm by Gnu
That's a pretty loaded question because, as Gnu pointed out, your best bet is to have one of each healer for most endgame activities.
Generally, WHM can perform the biggest AoE heal without much prep time while SCH needs to plan a lot more in advance. In return, SCHs are rewarded for planning ahead and the workload is split between you and the fairy. I find it's often easier for me to maintain mana on SCH compared to watching my WHM counterparts...but, at the same time, I can't swiftcast a medica 2 on my group to restore a lot of HP. If I need to AoE heal, I need Eos' rouse'd whispering dawn (which has no base healing component: just a regen) or I need to spam succor which will OOM me fast.
Benediction is nice, yes, but currently certain mechanics favor the SCH ability lustrate over benediction since benediction has such a long CD. While benediction restores all the target's current HP, lustrate just restores a % of the target's max HP. This is ideal for tanks because they stack VIT which increases their max HP.
This means it technically isn't counted as a heal (actually an ability) which means it isn't affected by debuffs that cause targets to take less healing. This is huge on fights like Twintania when your tank is being brought close to death but has a healing debuff on him. It can also be used 3 times in rapid succession: 6 if the SCH is sitting on another set of aetherflows.
But you want advice on ADS I see. And, you seem to take the right path. I'm afraid I have little advice to offer you when it comes to the right path. Is your party composition mainly magic DPS? If so, I understand why you go right. If it's evenly split, though, I would consider trying the left side.
The problem with going right has already been made apparent to you: ADS dishes out a lot of damage. Him having a haste buff doesn't help things either.
For left, our WHM and SCH tend to focus on both tanks. Our SCH uses lustrate almost entirely for the tanks. I believe our WHM will raid heal when necessary but both are capable of performing this task.
What really helps is having a virus rotation, eye for an eye rotation, and keeping track of how many stacks are on a current tank. If your tanks can, tell the healers how many stacks they have on them. This will help your healers prep emergency measures based on # of stacks on a tank.
ADS (left) is also a fight where no one but the tanks should be receiving damage (if you go left). There is minor AoE damage throughout the fight but either healer is capable of capping everyone off when they dip low. Everything is avoidable on the left: piercing laser, ballast, gravity well, etc. If people are getting hit too much by things like piercing laser, then that's not a healer issue.
If you can tell us more about your group composition and give more details on who is dying to what and when, you'll probably receive some better advice.
Edited, Dec 10th 2013 1:17pm by HitomeOfBismarck
Generally, WHM can perform the biggest AoE heal without much prep time while SCH needs to plan a lot more in advance. In return, SCHs are rewarded for planning ahead and the workload is split between you and the fairy. I find it's often easier for me to maintain mana on SCH compared to watching my WHM counterparts...but, at the same time, I can't swiftcast a medica 2 on my group to restore a lot of HP. If I need to AoE heal, I need Eos' rouse'd whispering dawn (which has no base healing component: just a regen) or I need to spam succor which will OOM me fast.
Benediction is nice, yes, but currently certain mechanics favor the SCH ability lustrate over benediction since benediction has such a long CD. While benediction restores all the target's current HP, lustrate just restores a % of the target's max HP. This is ideal for tanks because they stack VIT which increases their max HP.
This means it technically isn't counted as a heal (actually an ability) which means it isn't affected by debuffs that cause targets to take less healing. This is huge on fights like Twintania when your tank is being brought close to death but has a healing debuff on him. It can also be used 3 times in rapid succession: 6 if the SCH is sitting on another set of aetherflows.
But you want advice on ADS I see. And, you seem to take the right path. I'm afraid I have little advice to offer you when it comes to the right path. Is your party composition mainly magic DPS? If so, I understand why you go right. If it's evenly split, though, I would consider trying the left side.
The problem with going right has already been made apparent to you: ADS dishes out a lot of damage. Him having a haste buff doesn't help things either.
For left, our WHM and SCH tend to focus on both tanks. Our SCH uses lustrate almost entirely for the tanks. I believe our WHM will raid heal when necessary but both are capable of performing this task.
What really helps is having a virus rotation, eye for an eye rotation, and keeping track of how many stacks are on a current tank. If your tanks can, tell the healers how many stacks they have on them. This will help your healers prep emergency measures based on # of stacks on a tank.
ADS (left) is also a fight where no one but the tanks should be receiving damage (if you go left). There is minor AoE damage throughout the fight but either healer is capable of capping everyone off when they dip low. Everything is avoidable on the left: piercing laser, ballast, gravity well, etc. If people are getting hit too much by things like piercing laser, then that's not a healer issue.
If you can tell us more about your group composition and give more details on who is dying to what and when, you'll probably receive some better advice.
Edited, Dec 10th 2013 1:17pm by HitomeOfBismarck
Ah, see there you go. Hitome has actual SMN healing experience.
Thanks for the details Hitome. Those % based spells are very powerful due to scaling with gear.
So you think SCH has the edge on main tank heals? Not sure really. I haven't seen it matter too much because any combination seems to work short of T4.
On a side note, I did T3 last night for the first time and that was just sad. Did they sneak a Sonic level into FF? They had Sega guest design one level? Sad sauce. So now it's time to gear up for T4. Need to research a bit more on the minimum gear requirements. (Probably for WHM considering that's what I'm asked to go as most often.)
Thanks for the details Hitome. Those % based spells are very powerful due to scaling with gear.
So you think SCH has the edge on main tank heals? Not sure really. I haven't seen it matter too much because any combination seems to work short of T4.
On a side note, I did T3 last night for the first time and that was just sad. Did they sneak a Sonic level into FF? They had Sega guest design one level? Sad sauce. So now it's time to gear up for T4. Need to research a bit more on the minimum gear requirements. (Probably for WHM considering that's what I'm asked to go as most often.)
Gnu wrote:
For a limited time only, you can complete T2 ADS by the following method:
- bring 3 healers
- wait for 1 click to engage
- let ADS enrage
- while enraged ADS will NOT do any special attacks, including Rot
- have the party, including tank, stack up together
- the 3 healers simply spam AoE cures to offset the enrage damage
- have bards do a mage's ballad rotation so you don't run low on MP
Edited, Dec 10th 2013 12:14pm by Gnu
- bring 3 healers
- wait for 1 click to engage
- let ADS enrage
- while enraged ADS will NOT do any special attacks, including Rot
- have the party, including tank, stack up together
- the 3 healers simply spam AoE cures to offset the enrage damage
- have bards do a mage's ballad rotation so you don't run low on MP
Edited, Dec 10th 2013 12:14pm by Gnu
It is way..way...way...way...way much more faster to just do it normally lol. SCH is a good support healer by design, but takes a really skilled and geared SCH to solo heal some turns and other content. So which is better and at what? SCH has the best MP management as it's faster and certain abilities SCH can use can reduce over all healing needing.
It's all up into who's playing, since from what I seen, most WHMs tend to die and stay dead 90% of primal runs and whatnot and I as a SCH tend to be stuck solo healing anyway so I'd say SCH is better, but by design, SCH is better in one area, WHM has more clutch healing making it better in other areas.
I think both are very capable MT healers. I think WHM probably has an edge on fights without healing debuffs due to having more than cure 1 and a fairy heal. :P Adlo crits are very nice but you can't exactly plan for them and spamming adlo will make you go OOM fast as well. Best used when you know big damage is coming (so, planning in advance).
I like that they spread the love so nicely for healers. They give WHMs enhanced protect so they're desirable by default in anything and then added a fight with a healing debuff which makes SCH highly desirable.
That said, I am very sad you are not playing BLM!
I like that they spread the love so nicely for healers. They give WHMs enhanced protect so they're desirable by default in anything and then added a fight with a healing debuff which makes SCH highly desirable.
That said, I am very sad you are not playing BLM!
Both are good healers. The shield from sch are great, and the aoe, burst heal from whm are too. Depending on how my counter part is doing will dictate on how I run. If they are being main heal and doing good, I wiil off heal everyone else, and come in on burst damage to quick max tank. If they are struggeling I will offer to main heal. It all really down to the players and their style, then group performance. I love it when there are one of each in groups.
like others have said both jobs complement each other well, and having one of each in a party will maximize the potential for both jobs.
That said, playing both SCH and WHM, i feel for single target healing SCH beats out WHM. The reason for this, is that by micromanaging your pet (making it use cure on the person you want), you can essentially toss out the equivalent of cure 2 all the time, save MP, and have 2 chances at one of the heals getting a critical hit. This is helpfull since a WHM tossing out cure 2's all the time will run out of MP fairly quickly while physick doesn't cost that much and the fairy is like having free cures. Along with this, lustrate can be used more frequently then benediction, although this is based upon wether or not you have stacks of aetherflow so this can be a drawback.
For multiple target healing a WHM does it better because unlike scholar, their AoE heals do large amounts of cures on everyone. a SCH AoE heal does a tiny amount of healing compared to medica, but it is good to note that it also gives a shield essentially increasing the buffer you have. ill talk more about this in the next paragraph though. WHM also gets medica 2 which gives a nice regen effect for a short time, but the regen is pretty large and used with medica 1, can heal a party to full health rather quickly.
With all that said, using the classes together is the best combo. the AoE shield a SCH gives will give more time to the WHM to top people off. Beyond that, when your full health and have the shield you essentially have a higher amount of health and can therfore absorb more damage saving MP for all healers. the bubble a SCH throws down further reduces the amount of curing that isneccessary, but should be used wisely since it uses a stack of aether flow to use. SCH needs to plan more ahead than a WHM because of this.
Tl;Dr
SCH excells at single target healing.
WHM ecells at party healing.
Together they maximize both jobs potential.
That said, playing both SCH and WHM, i feel for single target healing SCH beats out WHM. The reason for this, is that by micromanaging your pet (making it use cure on the person you want), you can essentially toss out the equivalent of cure 2 all the time, save MP, and have 2 chances at one of the heals getting a critical hit. This is helpfull since a WHM tossing out cure 2's all the time will run out of MP fairly quickly while physick doesn't cost that much and the fairy is like having free cures. Along with this, lustrate can be used more frequently then benediction, although this is based upon wether or not you have stacks of aetherflow so this can be a drawback.
For multiple target healing a WHM does it better because unlike scholar, their AoE heals do large amounts of cures on everyone. a SCH AoE heal does a tiny amount of healing compared to medica, but it is good to note that it also gives a shield essentially increasing the buffer you have. ill talk more about this in the next paragraph though. WHM also gets medica 2 which gives a nice regen effect for a short time, but the regen is pretty large and used with medica 1, can heal a party to full health rather quickly.
With all that said, using the classes together is the best combo. the AoE shield a SCH gives will give more time to the WHM to top people off. Beyond that, when your full health and have the shield you essentially have a higher amount of health and can therfore absorb more damage saving MP for all healers. the bubble a SCH throws down further reduces the amount of curing that isneccessary, but should be used wisely since it uses a stack of aether flow to use. SCH needs to plan more ahead than a WHM because of this.
Tl;Dr
SCH excells at single target healing.
WHM ecells at party healing.
Together they maximize both jobs potential.
Ok so we did the 3 healers strategy yesterday because we were 1 dps short and couldn't find a good one in /shout so we decided to try 3 healers. We got it on the second try because on the 1st try we didn't know he was gonna cast his aoe non stop and not hit the tanks and the healers were not ready for it.
I must say this strategy is way too easy, I hope they fix it. We did it with 1 tank 3 healers and 4 dps. What we did is pull ADS at 1 click. Have one of the White Mage spam stoneskin on the tank so he doesn't get the debuff stacking. We made sure to avoid the cannons and lasers for the 1st minute as well as silencing high voltage. After 1 minute, when he enrages, we used tank limit break and everyone stacked behind ADS. Scholar used their bubble on the raid, all healers would spam aoe heals, the tank would tank and the dps would dps. Nothing else.
Next week, we plan on doing the real two healer strategy to get experience doing it the right way.
Anyone know when they plan on fixing ADS or if they gonna keep it like that?
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Edited, Dec 12th 2013 9:21am by QuickShadoww
I must say this strategy is way too easy, I hope they fix it. We did it with 1 tank 3 healers and 4 dps. What we did is pull ADS at 1 click. Have one of the White Mage spam stoneskin on the tank so he doesn't get the debuff stacking. We made sure to avoid the cannons and lasers for the 1st minute as well as silencing high voltage. After 1 minute, when he enrages, we used tank limit break and everyone stacked behind ADS. Scholar used their bubble on the raid, all healers would spam aoe heals, the tank would tank and the dps would dps. Nothing else.
Next week, we plan on doing the real two healer strategy to get experience doing it the right way.
Anyone know when they plan on fixing ADS or if they gonna keep it like that?
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Edited, Dec 12th 2013 9:21am by QuickShadoww
They'll probably fix it pretty soon. They're not a big fan of people doing fights the way they didn't intend them.
See: Tonberry boss at the end of WP changed so kiting wasn't viable and Twintania lockout
See: Tonberry boss at the end of WP changed so kiting wasn't viable and Twintania lockout
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
They'll probably fix it pretty soon. They're not a big fan of people doing fights the way they didn't intend them.
See: Tonberry boss at the end of WP changed so kiting wasn't viable and Twintania lockout
See: Tonberry boss at the end of WP changed so kiting wasn't viable and Twintania lockout
I'm actually a little surprised they didn't see that coming. If they wanted ADS to wipe the party you would think he would just 1 shot everyone instead of doing a manageable amount of damage.
Edited, Dec 12th 2013 10:33am by Keysofgaruda
Yeah I was expecting aetheric profusion type attacks at that point but if it's this weak...I'm pretty sure it won't go ignored.
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