So after many an AK and WP run I now have a relic+1 and full DL (except iLvl 70 crafted pants and an iLvl 90 ring) so I'd say I'm ready to start doing coil now :p
So I don't make a fool of myself in my first run, can anyone give some melee specific tips that would help me get it right first time?
I've been watching YouTube video guides, but they seem to always be from the perspective of a ranged or magic class and was curious if there are any special things I should know as a melee DPS.
Thanks all :)
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Monk's first time in coil - any tips?Follow
Kuyo - Hume Male - Pandemonium server (Retired)
75 Monk, 75 Samurai
75 Monk, 75 Samurai
Don't stand in bad stuff and don't die. Just about every strat for every boss in Coil revolves around a melee limit break. If you are the only melee then it means you must be alive or there is a good chance you will wipe.
Because you have a silence you should be ready to pick up when someone on silence duty fails/dies. Silence on ADS is required... there is no other way to deal with it.
Because you have a silence you should be ready to pick up when someone on silence duty fails/dies. Silence on ADS is required... there is no other way to deal with it.
Pretty much what Rochetm said. On ADS you need to know the pattern of his moves pretty well. As a melee, you're susceptible to 1 more move than ranged DPS (his circular AOE) and have to be on your toes. On Caduceus runs with my FC, I'm actually the jelly man on my DRG. Most groups get a brd to do it, but it works for us.
Being alive for the LB is important, especially on the final boss of Turn 2. If you regularly have connection or lag issues, you're going to have a hard time in Coil.
Being alive for the LB is important, especially on the final boss of Turn 2. If you regularly have connection or lag issues, you're going to have a hard time in Coil.
Yeah coil is pretty tough. Be happy you dont have to take part in the hot potato rot rotation, but you have to be aware at 75% when ADS casts allagan rot so you know if you have it. Its random, so 1/8 of the time you can expect to be tagged. You make a macro (or teamspeak) to let your people know you have rot and your team would have selected someone to run in and pick it up from you to distribute it among 5 selected rot passing ranged DPS / healers. Also, prepare a silence macro to let others know when you are silencing, and work into the rotation. Additional halts from paralyze (because you missed silence) is no fun when you are passing rot and having to run through tar.
But that's turn 2.
Turn 1 boss is pretty easy for you assuming you arent the slime guy. Stay off of glowing tiles (unless you are slime guy) and avoid the green goop (which is usually spit at the ranged people) and avoid his meele aoe. If you are feeding slimes, you have to stand on the glowing tile to spawn one, then attack to get them down in health to almost dead then feed them (just bring them within range) of the snake to remove a buff that he gives himself. The higher the hp on the slimes, the more hp the snake recovers when he eats. If not feeding slimes, remember to halt your dps on the snake when it is nearing 75% health so the slime can be fed to remove the last buff. Then go apesh*t and as meele DPS, you will probably LB at that point. The idea is to damage the snake under 75% so that it splits into two snakes while having no active buffs. Main tank keep the first snake, off tank grabs the second snake and pulls it as far away as you can go so they dont recombine. Then the party splits into two predefined groups. The groups will whittle away at their respective snakes. Both should die within 20 seconds apart or he resets and you have to repeat the battle.
These are very hard battles. Good luck to you.
Edited, Nov 18th 2013 10:16am by Valkayree
But that's turn 2.
Turn 1 boss is pretty easy for you assuming you arent the slime guy. Stay off of glowing tiles (unless you are slime guy) and avoid the green goop (which is usually spit at the ranged people) and avoid his meele aoe. If you are feeding slimes, you have to stand on the glowing tile to spawn one, then attack to get them down in health to almost dead then feed them (just bring them within range) of the snake to remove a buff that he gives himself. The higher the hp on the slimes, the more hp the snake recovers when he eats. If not feeding slimes, remember to halt your dps on the snake when it is nearing 75% health so the slime can be fed to remove the last buff. Then go apesh*t and as meele DPS, you will probably LB at that point. The idea is to damage the snake under 75% so that it splits into two snakes while having no active buffs. Main tank keep the first snake, off tank grabs the second snake and pulls it as far away as you can go so they dont recombine. Then the party splits into two predefined groups. The groups will whittle away at their respective snakes. Both should die within 20 seconds apart or he resets and you have to repeat the battle.
These are very hard battles. Good luck to you.
Edited, Nov 18th 2013 10:16am by Valkayree
Get a DPS parser (FFXIV app) handy for turn 4 too, you wanna get that up and find ways to improve, it's a major DPS check. It's also a good fallback if anyone accuses you of not pulling your weight.
Man, valuable information in here :) Thanks everyone!
How likely is it that I will be required to silence it? Reason being, silence only works when I am in Opo-Opo form, which means I will need to do at least 3 attacks before I can use it to silence it, could make things rather difficult and probably slow my DPS down a bit.
Rochetm wrote:
Because you have a silence you should be ready to pick up when someone on silence duty fails/dies. Silence on ADS is required... there is no other way to deal with it.
How likely is it that I will be required to silence it? Reason being, silence only works when I am in Opo-Opo form, which means I will need to do at least 3 attacks before I can use it to silence it, could make things rather difficult and probably slow my DPS down a bit.
Kuyo - Hume Male - Pandemonium server (Retired)
75 Monk, 75 Samurai
75 Monk, 75 Samurai
Yeah, we have a Monk in our runs, he will never be in charge of silence for that reason. He loses too much DPS if he has to prepare for it on a regular basis.
We're fond of using 2 bards for the rotation, just so the tanks have less to worry about.
Edited, Nov 18th 2013 9:35pm by Kirby
We're fond of using 2 bards for the rotation, just so the tanks have less to worry about.
Edited, Nov 18th 2013 9:35pm by Kirby
Tubrudi wrote:
Man, valuable information in here :) Thanks everyone!
How likely is it that I will be required to silence it? Reason being, silence only works when I am in Opo-Opo form, which means I will need to do at least 3 attacks before I can use it to silence it, could make things rather difficult and probably slow my DPS down a bit.
Rochetm wrote:
Because you have a silence you should be ready to pick up when someone on silence duty fails/dies. Silence on ADS is required... there is no other way to deal with it.
How likely is it that I will be required to silence it? Reason being, silence only works when I am in Opo-Opo form, which means I will need to do at least 3 attacks before I can use it to silence it, could make things rather difficult and probably slow my DPS down a bit.
Thought it was easier than that. We dont have any monks in our static. We have a dragoon. The silence rotation is passed between the paladins and our bard. Be sure and let your group know that you need three attacks to make that work and they may reconsider. It really needs to be something that you can just throw out there in the midst of all hell breaking loose for it to be 100% effective. Still, the priority of a silencer should be:
1. Passing Rot (cause if you dont everyone dies instantly)
2. Silencing (team wide-paralyze sucks)
3. Damage Dealing.
Tubrudi wrote:
Man, valuable information in here :) Thanks everyone!
How likely is it that I will be required to silence it? Reason being, silence only works when I am in Opo-Opo form, which means I will need to do at least 3 attacks before I can use it to silence it, could make things rather difficult and probably slow my DPS down a bit.
Rochetm wrote:
Because you have a silence you should be ready to pick up when someone on silence duty fails/dies. Silence on ADS is required... there is no other way to deal with it.
How likely is it that I will be required to silence it? Reason being, silence only works when I am in Opo-Opo form, which means I will need to do at least 3 attacks before I can use it to silence it, could make things rather difficult and probably slow my DPS down a bit.
Depends on your group and if they ***** up/die. Paladins and Bards are the best choice for it. Monk is very high risk and very little reward when it comes to silence. Just keep in mind that on turn two if one of your silencers dies then you may be the only one left that can do it and keep the group alive long enough for a win.
The first 3 mobs you find in Turn 2 are entirely soloable by mnk in terms of silence. As for ADS himself, do-able but extremely tricky. Especially as he gains more abilities as the fight progresses, it becomes harder to predict the timing of high voltage. So generally we just go with two bards.
-REDACTED-
Scholar
1,339 posts
Rochetm wrote:
Depends on your group and if they ***** up/die. Paladins and Bards are the best choice for it. Monk is very high risk and very little reward when it comes to silence.
Monk has absolutely no more risk than Paladin associated with interrupting. Is it annoying? Hell yes, and only if something goofs or if ADS does his weird High Voltage, 2 seconds then Gravity Well, 2 seconds then High Voltage, and timers are thrown *WAY* off I'll let my MNK to prepare just in case, but it's hardly a 'risk'.
Secondly, Paladin is nowhere near Bard's ability to interrupt. The cooldowns might be the same, and they might be off the global, but whereas Bard's interrupt is *literally* instant Paladin's doesn't kick in until the animation is finished and depending on when that happens you can still technically be well within the interrupt time and it'll still go off. It's annoying as sh*t.
As far as it's concerned as some tips here's a few TC:
Turn 1 - ADS: just dodge red circles and move to the adds when they spawn if you're told to (I don't have my Monk move since his damage is better just left on the boss due to travel time/GL stack mechanics).
Turn 1 - Cadecus: If you're the only melee damage dealer, try to force Tail Swipe as much as you can get away with without lowering your own dps (by moving behind the boss). This will lessen tank damage over the course of the fight. Other than that just burn him and completely back away during the split transition so you don't get caught with a Tail Swipe or Hood Swing during the move -- that 10 seconds lost damage is perferrable to having to raise you mid-fight and potentially lose a tank due to 'lost' healing. As we usually blow Tank-LB2 to make the setup transition smooth as silk and burn him pretty quickly we usually just barely get an LB2 off so use that if told.
Turn 2 - ADS: Dodge red and ferry Allagan Rot if need be (our MNK is the 5th as we run with a DRG and MNK). If you go the M/V formation be sure you're running to the right person AND that you're not running too closely to the ranged when avoiding AoE. We just moved to having all ranged stack after initial rot setup and our MNK heads to the group when his debuff is almost off and stays until he passes it automatically again. LB3 if needed.
Turn 3: LOL
Turn 4: TP is strained and it's a hefty damage check. Ignore using any AoE attacks during all phases as it's just not worth it as a much. Instead, single target all the way and switch monsters if you start getting high on threat. Phases 1 & 2 are easily done so save cooldowns, and burn them on the Dreadnaught when it drops in 3. 4 & 5 are like 1 & 2, and then burn cooldowns again once the rest of the adds are dead and you've only got the Dreadnaughts left. If told to, LB2 on the older Dreadnaught to finish it off ASAP.
Turn 5: Pucker and pray. The fight's too complicated to go over as you really need to A) read up on it B) watch a video if possible and C) experience it firsthand.
Edited, Nov 19th 2013 12:49pm by Viertel
You know I could give you a bunch of advice but it would be tailored to the strategies I use. Really, you need to know how your group plans to handle things in order to receive advice on specific fights.
As general advice for melees:
1) Cleave hurts. Several of the bosses in coil will cleave. Make sure your PLD/WARs know where to stand so that you can stand on the sides without being cleaved yourself.
If your tank, for whatever reason, needs to move to reposition the mob, they need to be pretty vocal about or you need to be really alert. Caduceus is really good at gibbing players due to tanks changing position.
Notable cleavers: Caduceus, ADS, Dreadnoughts (?), Twintania
2) Mantra is very useful! Its usefulness is made clear in turn 4 and 5.
3) Know when to use the LB. Almost every fight, outside of turn 5, uses a melee LB. Even in turn 5, melee LB is still used. To give you an idea of what we do:
Turn 1: MNK LB2s one of the Caduceus clones after they've split. You want both snakes dead at the same time, relatively speaking. Your group will most likely split DPS on the two snakes: two DPS on one, two DPS on the other. Keep an eye on the other group's snake. Use LB to balance out their health.
Turn 2: Again, melee LB3 is very useful against ADS. It can be used to force him into a phase change if need be.
Turn 4: There are so many strategies for this one. Our MNK is in charge of LBing the rook. Other groups LB something else like the dreadnought. Talk it out with your group
Turn 5: Remember: you have shoulder tackle. Extremely useful ability, especially in the beginning and during the twister/dreadknght phase. Try to use mantra to lessen the burden on your healers during the fireball/conflag phase. It's a nice idea to pop mantra right before aetheric profusion goes off because your healers will most likely be prepping heals then as well.
If you do not have an OT for turn 5 or he is dead, make sure you get on stun duty when in the twister/dreadknight phase.
Really, just learn how to pace yourself. As you continue to gear up, you'll be hitting certain benchmarks on the GCD recast timer which can actually cause you to go into TP starvation mode. Be very careful!
Edited, Nov 21st 2013 3:16pm by HitomeOfBismarck
As general advice for melees:
1) Cleave hurts. Several of the bosses in coil will cleave. Make sure your PLD/WARs know where to stand so that you can stand on the sides without being cleaved yourself.
If your tank, for whatever reason, needs to move to reposition the mob, they need to be pretty vocal about or you need to be really alert. Caduceus is really good at gibbing players due to tanks changing position.
Notable cleavers: Caduceus, ADS, Dreadnoughts (?), Twintania
2) Mantra is very useful! Its usefulness is made clear in turn 4 and 5.
3) Know when to use the LB. Almost every fight, outside of turn 5, uses a melee LB. Even in turn 5, melee LB is still used. To give you an idea of what we do:
Turn 1: MNK LB2s one of the Caduceus clones after they've split. You want both snakes dead at the same time, relatively speaking. Your group will most likely split DPS on the two snakes: two DPS on one, two DPS on the other. Keep an eye on the other group's snake. Use LB to balance out their health.
Turn 2: Again, melee LB3 is very useful against ADS. It can be used to force him into a phase change if need be.
Turn 4: There are so many strategies for this one. Our MNK is in charge of LBing the rook. Other groups LB something else like the dreadnought. Talk it out with your group
Turn 5: Remember: you have shoulder tackle. Extremely useful ability, especially in the beginning and during the twister/dreadknght phase. Try to use mantra to lessen the burden on your healers during the fireball/conflag phase. It's a nice idea to pop mantra right before aetheric profusion goes off because your healers will most likely be prepping heals then as well.
If you do not have an OT for turn 5 or he is dead, make sure you get on stun duty when in the twister/dreadknight phase.
Really, just learn how to pace yourself. As you continue to gear up, you'll be hitting certain benchmarks on the GCD recast timer which can actually cause you to go into TP starvation mode. Be very careful!
Edited, Nov 21st 2013 3:16pm by HitomeOfBismarck
Thanks for all the advice guys! I did Turn 1 last night for the first time, and the group I was in was very nice and forgiving of me when I cocked up. We didn't get the win in the end for various reasons, but by the end of it I was definitely starting to get a feel for the fight. I died a lot, but think I learnt a lot in the process.
This was probably the thing that caught be out the most. Quite a few times we'd be on a panel that lit up, and during the reposition I sometimes couldn't accurately predict the tank's movements and happened to be too far forward and got killed by the cleave move. I also learnt that I need to be really careful once they split, towards the end of the run, I'd run away when they split, then come back when both tanks have hate sorted on their respective snakes. Figured it's better to lose GL buff over getting one shotted lol.
I have actually been using Mantra quite often in battles. I learnt how to effectively use it in the Titan HM fights.
The group I did it with would burn the first boss down to 10% then switch to the second one, then go back to the main boss. Unfortunately, this didn't seem to work too well, as one tank would often die, and the two would merge again.
I'll keep trying, but I think I am definitely getting better at this, even with my ****** NZ latency, lol.
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
If your tank, for whatever reason, your tank needs to move to reposition the mob, they need to be pretty vocal about or you need to be really alert. Caduceus is really good at gibbing players due to tanks changing position.
This was probably the thing that caught be out the most. Quite a few times we'd be on a panel that lit up, and during the reposition I sometimes couldn't accurately predict the tank's movements and happened to be too far forward and got killed by the cleave move. I also learnt that I need to be really careful once they split, towards the end of the run, I'd run away when they split, then come back when both tanks have hate sorted on their respective snakes. Figured it's better to lose GL buff over getting one shotted lol.
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Mantra is very useful! Its usefulness is made clear in turn 4 and 5.
I have actually been using Mantra quite often in battles. I learnt how to effectively use it in the Titan HM fights.
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Turn 1: MNK LB2s one of the Caduceus clones after they've split. You want both snakes dead at the same time, relatively speaking. Your group will most likely split DPS on the two snakes: two DPS on one, two DPS on the other. Keep an eye on the other group's snake. Use LB to balance out their health.
The group I did it with would burn the first boss down to 10% then switch to the second one, then go back to the main boss. Unfortunately, this didn't seem to work too well, as one tank would often die, and the two would merge again.
I'll keep trying, but I think I am definitely getting better at this, even with my ****** NZ latency, lol.
Kuyo - Hume Male - Pandemonium server (Retired)
75 Monk, 75 Samurai
75 Monk, 75 Samurai
-REDACTED-
Scholar
1,339 posts
Tubrudi wrote:
The group I did it with would burn the first boss down to 10% then switch to the second one, then go back to the main boss. Unfortunately, this didn't seem to work too well, as one tank would often die, and the two would merge again.
I'll keep trying, but I think I am definitely getting better at this, even with my sh*tty NZ latency, lol.
I'll keep trying, but I think I am definitely getting better at this, even with my sh*tty NZ latency, lol.
Yeah I find most do that over split damage equally across both targets. I usually just call out over went for people to actually move over one at a time (i.e. MNK goes @ 15%, DRG @ 10%, BLM moves @5%, and I'll have the BRD stay on until around 3%, apply his dots and then shift) instead of all at once, so I've got about 1% health to deal with myself and then spend my MP just chain-casting Stoneskin on myself between defensive cooldowns (and getting interrupted of course) to help out healers.
How were your tank handling the split and moving them? Was the OT moving his or the MT moving his? We ended up finding it easier to just let me move the primary one away since hate's established on that versus having the OT try to drag his across while getting healed.
The main tank would move his away while the off tank would build hate on the other.
I found it easy enough to move across, however I found it a bit awkward dodging the green spots while avoiding getting hit by the snakes after the split. since there are esentially only two safe spots for me to be, if one was on a glowing panel and the other had a green spot on it, I easily got taken out, so guess I need to work on that a bit more.
I found it easy enough to move across, however I found it a bit awkward dodging the green spots while avoiding getting hit by the snakes after the split. since there are esentially only two safe spots for me to be, if one was on a glowing panel and the other had a green spot on it, I easily got taken out, so guess I need to work on that a bit more.
Kuyo - Hume Male - Pandemonium server (Retired)
75 Monk, 75 Samurai
75 Monk, 75 Samurai
I'm a drg and have done everything but Coil in game so far...not looking forward to it
TheAnf wrote:
I'm a drg and have done everything but Coil in game so far...not looking forward to it
It's really not that bad. DRG probably has it the easiest out of anyone in the run. Turn 1, each boss fight resembles a tank n' spank to the DRG, since we just go to won on bosses. I do jellies on Caduceus, but most PUGs will have a BRD do it.
Turn 2 is the same. I keep an eye on Allagan Rot on ADS, as it's my responsibility to grab it off the tanks and put it into the 5-man rotation if they get it. Straight zergDRG beyond that.
Turn 4 is where we're at now and most of the responsibilty is on the tanks for positioning, except for phase 3 bugs + dreadnought.
Don't worry about it, just DOO EET!
IKickYoDog wrote:
TheAnf wrote:
I'm a drg and have done everything but Coil in game so far...not looking forward to it
It's really not that bad. DRG probably has it the easiest out of anyone in the run. Turn 1, each boss fight resembles a tank n' spank to the DRG, since we just go to won on bosses. I do jellies on Caduceus, but most PUGs will have a BRD do it.
Turn 2 is the same. I keep an eye on Allagan Rot on ADS, as it's my responsibility to grab it off the tanks and put it into the 5-man rotation if they get it. Straight zergDRG beyond that.
Turn 4 is where we're at now and most of the responsibilty is on the tanks for positioning, except for phase 3 bugs + dreadnought.
Don't worry about it, just DOO EET!
I would but my free company only takes one melee in...because to them apparently Drg isn't useful in coil...don't really want to PUG it
TheAnf wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
TheAnf wrote:
I'm a drg and have done everything but Coil in game so far...not looking forward to it
It's really not that bad. DRG probably has it the easiest out of anyone in the run. Turn 1, each boss fight resembles a tank n' spank to the DRG, since we just go to won on bosses. I do jellies on Caduceus, but most PUGs will have a BRD do it.
Turn 2 is the same. I keep an eye on Allagan Rot on ADS, as it's my responsibility to grab it off the tanks and put it into the 5-man rotation if they get it. Straight zergDRG beyond that.
Turn 4 is where we're at now and most of the responsibilty is on the tanks for positioning, except for phase 3 bugs + dreadnought.
Don't worry about it, just DOO EET!
I would but my free company only takes one melee in...because to them apparently Drg isn't useful in coil...don't really want to PUG it
Joke is on them. They do know their BRD damage is buffed by a DRG right?
O
It's really not that bad. DRG probably has it the easiest out of anyone in the run. Turn 1, each boss fight resembles a tank n' spank to the DRG, since we just go to won on bosses. I do jellies on Caduceus, but most PUGs will have a BRD do it.
Turn 2 is the same. I keep an eye on Allagan Rot on ADS, as it's my responsibility to grab it off the tanks and put it into the 5-man rotation if they get it. Straight zergDRG beyond that.
Turn 4 is where we're at now and most of the responsibilty is on the tanks for positioning, except for phase 3 bugs + dreadnought.
Don't worry about it, just DOO EET!
I would but my free company only takes one melee in...because to them apparently Drg isn't useful in coil...don't really want to PUG it
Ouch. Sounds to me like it might be time for a new group to run with. I can understand limiting it, as having at least 2 ranged/AOE jobs in there is kind of crucial, but DRG is far from useless.
I don't know how large your FC is, but have you thought of creating a separate group within the FC? Mine had an issue where we started running once we had 8 people ready for it, but then within 1-2 weeks we had 3 more people ready to go. This is problematic, as it is hard for our main group to get going each week already. Those people decided to start their own group between themselves and some friends they made outside the FC and 1 PUG healer and they're at the same point as us. Just a thought.
TheAnf wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
TheAnf wrote:
I'm a drg and have done everything but Coil in game so far...not looking forward to it
It's really not that bad. DRG probably has it the easiest out of anyone in the run. Turn 1, each boss fight resembles a tank n' spank to the DRG, since we just go to won on bosses. I do jellies on Caduceus, but most PUGs will have a BRD do it.
Turn 2 is the same. I keep an eye on Allagan Rot on ADS, as it's my responsibility to grab it off the tanks and put it into the 5-man rotation if they get it. Straight zergDRG beyond that.
Turn 4 is where we're at now and most of the responsibilty is on the tanks for positioning, except for phase 3 bugs + dreadnought.
Don't worry about it, just DOO EET!
I would but my free company only takes one melee in...because to them apparently Drg isn't useful in coil...don't really want to PUG it
Ouch. Sounds to me like it might be time for a new group to run with. I can understand limiting it, as having at least 2 ranged/AOE jobs in there is kind of crucial, but DRG is far from useless.
I don't know how large your FC is, but have you thought of creating a separate group within the FC? Mine had an issue where we started running once we had 8 people ready for it, but then within 1-2 weeks we had 3 more people ready to go. This is problematic, as it is hard for our main group to get going each week already. Those people decided to start their own group between themselves and some friends they made outside the FC and 1 PUG healer and they're at the same point as us. Just a thought.
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
TheAnf wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
TheAnf wrote:
I'm a drg and have done everything but Coil in game so far...not looking forward to it
It's really not that bad. DRG probably has it the easiest out of anyone in the run. Turn 1, each boss fight resembles a tank n' spank to the DRG, since we just go to won on bosses. I do jellies on Caduceus, but most PUGs will have a BRD do it.
Turn 2 is the same. I keep an eye on Allagan Rot on ADS, as it's my responsibility to grab it off the tanks and put it into the 5-man rotation if they get it. Straight zergDRG beyond that.
Turn 4 is where we're at now and most of the responsibilty is on the tanks for positioning, except for phase 3 bugs + dreadnought.
Don't worry about it, just DOO EET!
I would but my free company only takes one melee in...because to them apparently Drg isn't useful in coil...don't really want to PUG it
Joke is on them. They do know their BRD damage is buffed by a DRG right?
Our group is PAL > PAL > WHM > SCH > DRG > BRD > BLM > BLM. We do just fine with a DRG.
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