FFXIV's endgame community really does seem to suck.
I've only done one CM run and one Prae run... not even anything meant for gear beyond level 50... and the amount of impatience, whining and general prickery I've encountered already is SHOCKING.
Finger-pointing, name-calling, forced DCs, people complaining about gear choices... all in two runs.
The sad thing is, most people who play this game are fine. However, if there are enough bad apples to pack so much whiny drama into two randomly chosen runs, then... damn. I've read about this issue on the forums, but, honestly, I thought people were just being overly dramatic!
It really is that bad, isn't it?
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Thayos Redblade
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It's really not the majority. It's the Mor Dhona campers that leave everyone with a sour taste. These are the same intelligent and quality individuals who spend two hours shouting for Relic+1 WP/AK/CM/Prae speed runs when they could have taken a competent and reasonably geared player and been done several times over by the time they actually get that person.
I've actually taken to using DF more for my WP/AK/Primal runs since the 2.05 patch, as people are generally friendlier and less caring about someone making a mistake or whatnot. In addition, a good deal of people have already run these instances on another job, so there's fewer inexperienced players by the day. I honestly don't care if we're done in 15 or 30, it's less painful. I'm not here to stress, i'm here to enjoy. Titan is another matter, that's best left to pre-forms.
Pretty much every NA server has complained about the toxicity of the endgame community thus far, but there's really not much that can be done about it except wait until things spread out more in terms of possible activities or some of these people head out for their next flavor of the month.
Edited, Oct 27th 2013 11:13pm by Dallie
Edited, Oct 27th 2013 11:23pm by Dallie
I've actually taken to using DF more for my WP/AK/Primal runs since the 2.05 patch, as people are generally friendlier and less caring about someone making a mistake or whatnot. In addition, a good deal of people have already run these instances on another job, so there's fewer inexperienced players by the day. I honestly don't care if we're done in 15 or 30, it's less painful. I'm not here to stress, i'm here to enjoy. Titan is another matter, that's best left to pre-forms.
Pretty much every NA server has complained about the toxicity of the endgame community thus far, but there's really not much that can be done about it except wait until things spread out more in terms of possible activities or some of these people head out for their next flavor of the month.
Edited, Oct 27th 2013 11:13pm by Dallie
Edited, Oct 27th 2013 11:23pm by Dallie
End game does suck imho. If you use DF for just about anything you are asking for it. I am getting tired of the complaining about speed, or omg you dont have relic +1 and full DL or what not. Some ppl are fresh 50 and are just starting out. I am appalled by the animosity twords other fresher lv 50s or those of us that dont have certain pieces of gear. I hate to get into a group only to be berated cause I dont have my relic or +1 version of it. They make it seem like nothing can be done without being over grared for the content. Yes we all know you have run it a bajillion times and you want to be done asap, but not everyone is you, and if thats what you want make a static for said content. (not pointed at anyone person but ****** speed runners). Give the fresher ppl some time, and help them along, or there wont be many left at endgame except elitests
Dallie wrote:
I've actually taken to using DF more for my WP/AK/Primal runs since the 2.05 patch, as people are generally friendlier and less caring about someone making a mistake or whatnot. In addition, a good deal of people have already run these instances on another job, so there's less and less experienced players by the day. I honestly don't care if we're done in 15 or 30, it's less painful. I'm not here to stress, i'm here to enjoy.
Glad I'm not the only one.
I will almost always jump on my healer and DF instead of looking at Revenant's Toll shouts because I have seen so much unwarranted elitism in those groups. I mean, it's one thing if you act elitist and actually have the stuff to back it up. More often than not, I've seen this rampant elitism in people who just suck at what they do and really have no room to talk at all.
On average, WP takes a DF group ~23 minutes it seems. I've done the speed runs with my FC which makes it around 15-17 minutes. I have yet to see any of these alleged elite groups manage that because they always end up wiping on a big pull. And then they'll start pointing fingers, placing blame elsewhere, etc.
Two of the multiple 23 minute runs were with a paladin using a level 1 ring and another paladin using full AF. Both paladins were 110% better than any random server PUG paladin I've run with. I was quite impressed.
Would you rather spend 6 extra minutes in a stress-free run with amiable people? Or would you prefer to be in a group with antsy players with a high probability of wiping, making the run take longer in the end?
I was hoping the patch, with better incentives for WP, would weed out some of the asshats from CM and Praetorium but it does not seem to be the case. :\ Thayos experienced it, a crafting friend of mine who just hit 50 experienced it today, and 3 other people over the weekend that I have talked to have also had this problem.
Edited, Oct 28th 2013 2:28am by HitomeOfBismarck
Meant to say 'less and less inexperienced players', corrected!! Lol.
HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
Dallie wrote:
I've actually taken to using DF more for my WP/AK/Primal runs since the 2.05 patch, as people are generally friendlier and less caring about someone making a mistake or whatnot. In addition, a good deal of people have already run these instances on another job, so there's less and less experienced players by the day. I honestly don't care if we're done in 15 or 30, it's less painful. I'm not here to stress, i'm here to enjoy.
Glad I'm not the only one.
I will almost always jump on my healer and DF instead of looking at Revenant's Toll shouts because I have seen so much unwarranted elitism in those groups. I mean, it's one thing if you act elitist and actually have the stuff to back it up. More often than not, I've seen this rampant elitism in people who just suck at what they do and really have no room to talk at all.
On average, WP takes a DF group ~23 minutes it seems. I've done the speed runs with my FC which makes it around 15-17 minutes. I have yet to see any of these alleged elite groups manage that because they always end up wiping on a big pull. And then they'll start pointing fingers, placing blame elsewhere, etc.
Two of the multiple 23 minute runs were with a paladin using a level 1 ring and another paladin using full AF. Both paladins were 110% better than any random server PUG paladin I've run with. I was quite impressed.
Would you rather spend 6 extra minutes in a stress-free run with amiable people? Or would you prefer to be in a group with antsy players with a high probability of wiping, making the run take longer in the end?
I was hoping the patch, with better incentives for WP, would weed out some of the asshats from CM and Praetorium but it does not seem to be the case. :\ Thayos experienced it, a crafting friend of mine who just hit 50 experienced it today, and 3 other people over the weekend that I have talked to have also had this problem.
Edited, Oct 28th 2013 2:28am by HitomeOfBismarck
Well there's always going to be jerks, but it seems since more people are using DF now for AK/WP some of the friendlier folks are sifting in there, so it's been a much more pleasant experience than say the first month of the game.
I concur, it's just not worth the headache of dealing with Mor Dhona most of the time, with the exception of trying to get a Garuda/Titan run together.
Quote:
so it's been a much more pleasant experience than say the first month of the game.
Wow, so the community is BETTER than it was, and it still sucks?
What SE really needs to implement is an age filter. I want to be able to queue up in the DF and play with other 30-somethings, and not have to have my buzz killed by some repressed, hormonal teenage gamer.
Is that too much to ask?
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
I think the DF at this point has players who have recently reached endgame, and aren't going to criticize anyone since they themselves are new. So you normally end up with a slow going, easy going party.
I often join DF parties for AK and WP and I usually the only one with any DL gear or a relic. It usually takes 5 mins more than the average runs, and if you explain things in advance, there's usually 0 deaths. I'm not sure what the answer to all this is, I've run my fair share of just about everything this game as to offer and have only run into a few asshats here and there, overall it's been a very positive experience. I'm even tempted to say FFXI had bigger douche bags in the community. The whole community knew it and people STILL helped them out (Roundhouse on Unicorn, I'm looking at you).
Thing is with XIV, I think you're generally meeting far more people through your adventures leading to more encounters with ********* XI had populated servers at the start for sure, but you'd always seem to run into the same people on your journey to 75 and through endgame. And anyone still running Prae or CM for tomes (short of a change of pace), and for speed runs is obviously an idiot since you can hammer out WP in 15 mins now.
I often join DF parties for AK and WP and I usually the only one with any DL gear or a relic. It usually takes 5 mins more than the average runs, and if you explain things in advance, there's usually 0 deaths. I'm not sure what the answer to all this is, I've run my fair share of just about everything this game as to offer and have only run into a few asshats here and there, overall it's been a very positive experience. I'm even tempted to say FFXI had bigger douche bags in the community. The whole community knew it and people STILL helped them out (Roundhouse on Unicorn, I'm looking at you).
Thing is with XIV, I think you're generally meeting far more people through your adventures leading to more encounters with ********* XI had populated servers at the start for sure, but you'd always seem to run into the same people on your journey to 75 and through endgame. And anyone still running Prae or CM for tomes (short of a change of pace), and for speed runs is obviously an idiot since you can hammer out WP in 15 mins now.
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
so it's been a much more pleasant experience than say the first month of the game.
Wow, so the community is BETTER than it was, and it still sucks?
What SE really needs to implement is an age filter. I want to be able to queue up in the DF and play with other 30-somethings, and not have to have my buzz killed by some repressed, hormonal teenage gamer.
Is that too much to ask?
Yes, because I can guarantee that you'll get just as many 30+ ********* as you get 20- ones.
Quote:
but there's really not much that can be done about it
There is, and I wonder why SE didn't implement it yet. Just give me a cross-server BL, and
I'll be done with impatient lunatics in a buttonpress. Btw, yesterday I joined a random party
for the Chimera fight. We wiped 3 times because I failed to stun the deadly AOEs in time.
No problem. Now I would say Japanese players are just friendlier, but I also had my share
of ***** in Japanese DF parties... whom I could avoid (in the long run) with a cross-server
blacklist. Right now my best weapon is the "leave party" button.
I don't think it's an age thing.
I'm willing to bet that a lot of players are just plain tired of the grind on those level 50 dungeons.
I don't understand why SE left the lucrative Philosophy rewards in CM and Praetorium. It just seems silly that storyline content is also used for endgame grinding.
I'm willing to bet that a lot of players are just plain tired of the grind on those level 50 dungeons.
I don't understand why SE left the lucrative Philosophy rewards in CM and Praetorium. It just seems silly that storyline content is also used for endgame grinding.
Kirby wrote:
I don't think it's an age thing.
I'm willing to bet that a lot of players are just plain tired of the grind on those level 50 dungeons.
I don't understand why SE left the lucrative Philosophy rewards in CM and Praetorium. It just seems silly that storyline content is also used for endgame grinding.
I'm willing to bet that a lot of players are just plain tired of the grind on those level 50 dungeons.
I don't understand why SE left the lucrative Philosophy rewards in CM and Praetorium. It just seems silly that storyline content is also used for endgame grinding.
Thing is WP and AK net you as many now, so you have 0 reason to do either or. WP is also significantly faster.
I think age has a lot to do with it. For a teenager (or even someone in the low 20s), grinding these endgame dungeons really may feel like one of the most important things that person will do each day. However, once you get older and take on real responsibilities, you realize how silly it is to get so worked up over a game.
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
My suggestion is the same one people suggest on FFXI.
Find a good Free Company/Linkshell and make some friends.
Lots of good ones out there on every server, just have to be willing to find them.
Find a good Free Company/Linkshell and make some friends.
Lots of good ones out there on every server, just have to be willing to find them.
Scholar
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Thayos wrote:
I think age has a lot to do with it. For a teenager (or even someone in the low 20s), grinding these endgame dungeons really may feel like one of the most important things that person will do each day. However, once you get older and take on real responsibilities, you realize how silly it is to get so worked up over a game.
I totally agree with you.
I helped someone of my LS get past Brayflox. All went well till last boss. We kept loosing and loosing. I kept telling what went wrong and what not. After I dont know how many tries we finally win. 4 mintues left on the clock. So I and my LS mate are happy and congrat the other two....nothing, they say nothing. They werent in CS or anything cause after a few they both walk to the chest opened it and left the DF. So sad. And then there`s the runs ive did with tons, tons of drama over gear and what not.......
Im in a nice LS/FC with friends I made in XI but they are from the USA and Im from Holland. Im a dad now so my play hours are limited and limited to certain hours which makes it nearly impossible to play with my LS/FC. The community outside your LS/FC is sick/twisted/rude/immature and what not. Its shocking
Thinking about quitting. Havent played since friday and to be honost, I dont miss it at all.
Thayos wrote:
I think age has a lot to do with it. For a teenager (or even someone in the low 20s), grinding these endgame dungeons really may feel like one of the most important things that person will do each day. However, once you get older and take on real responsibilities, you realize how silly it is to get so worked up over a game.
The sad thing is, if you try to take the initiative in telling someone what they might do with their gear, rotation or positioning to improve; most of the time you get a snarky "don't tell me how to play my job" comment or they ragequit and duck out or d/c from the dungeon. When does the 'vote to kick' feature make it's debut?
Edited, Oct 28th 2013 4:39am by FilthMcNasty
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
Thayos wrote:
I think age has a lot to do with it. For a teenager (or even someone in the low 20s), grinding these endgame dungeons really may feel like one of the most important things that person will do each day. However, once you get older and take on real responsibilities, you realize how silly it is to get so worked up over a game.
I do enjoy the game, but would rather not do something inefficiently for 3-4 hours, when I could get it done in half that time and move onto something else I also enjoy.
Quote:
FFXIV's endgame community really does seem to suck.
I've only done one CM run and one Prae run...
I've only done one CM run and one Prae run...
Well, to be fair that's not really endgame. Those two dunegeons are really your first steps into the content at 50, and should be left behind as quickly as you can. For the exact reasons that you've discovered: there are stupid people who are still farming them.
On the plus side things will improve once you get clear of Prae and CM. At the moment CM is going to be collecting the dregs of the playerbase who are still convinced that CM is the best way to farm Philo, these are the idiots you're coming across. The majority of people have moved on already (to WP). Save yourself the trouble and don't go back to Prae and CM unless you have to, or are doing them with an FC group.
My advice is: gear yourself up in AF, decent lvl 50-55 gear via the market, a weapon from GC or the market, and leave CM and Prae in your dust.
It's all a bit toxic yeah. It's anoying and depressing, i've not reached the mythology weekly cap even once. Just cant get myself to do those dungeons when people fight over the most minor of things.
It's a good idea though, that cap. After a while, all the ********* will be capped out on points and move on, and other people will run the dungeons with maybe a little more common sense and kindness.
I'd be all for double points but with the same cap. Less weekly runs, and the sooner all the jerks get flushed out and the road opens up for the rest of us.
It's a good idea though, that cap. After a while, all the ********* will be capped out on points and move on, and other people will run the dungeons with maybe a little more common sense and kindness.
I'd be all for double points but with the same cap. Less weekly runs, and the sooner all the jerks get flushed out and the road opens up for the rest of us.
Thayos wrote:
FFXIV's endgame community really does seem to suck.
I've only done one CM run and one Prae run... not even anything meant for gear beyond level 50... and the amount of impatience, whining and general prickery I've encountered already is SHOCKING.
Finger-pointing, name-calling, forced DCs, people complaining about gear choices... all in two runs.
The sad thing is, most people who play this game are fine. However, if there are enough bad apples to pack so much whiny drama into two randomly chosen runs, then... damn. I've read about this issue on the forums, but, honestly, I thought people were just being overly dramatic!
It really is that bad, isn't it?
I've only done one CM run and one Prae run... not even anything meant for gear beyond level 50... and the amount of impatience, whining and general prickery I've encountered already is SHOCKING.
Finger-pointing, name-calling, forced DCs, people complaining about gear choices... all in two runs.
The sad thing is, most people who play this game are fine. However, if there are enough bad apples to pack so much whiny drama into two randomly chosen runs, then... damn. I've read about this issue on the forums, but, honestly, I thought people were just being overly dramatic!
It really is that bad, isn't it?
Make friends, if you can. If you queue with randoms you're playing with people that have problems making friends, what else do you expect to happen?
Ever played DOTA on low priority? the attitude of far too many level 50 players matches it almost exactly, I kinda feel we need praise/report function , this would hopefully bring all the nice people together while all the asshats eventually end up playing with each other in low priority hell.
Wow, I guess it's way better on Leviathan. Or maybe I just have insane luck. Either way, I can count on one hand the number of times I've had experiences like this at 50. And I've done several hundred runs of all the end game stuff except for Coil, much of it through DF.
Vitriolic wrote:
Ever played DOTA on low priority? the attitude of far too many level 50 players matches it almost exactly, I kinda feel we need praise/report function , this would hopefully bring all the nice people together while all the asshats eventually end up playing with each other in low priority hell.
All that would do is basicly make the nice people report the bad ones for being asshats. But will also make the asshats report the nice people for lack of "skill" or wasting "their" time. Dont think that would solve anything in the end. Just make nice people get punished for any small mistake or mishap.
The endgame is pretty bad, but it does seem to be getting better, not much, but better none the less. Majority of the time I only do AK or WP when a LS or FC member is looking to do runs. Runs w/ LS or FC members are a total blast.
It seems the DF groups i have been getting lately have not been completely infested w/ elitist ********, may be one or two, but nothing i can't just completely ignore by striking up a friendly light-hearted conversation with the other members.
It seems the DF groups i have been getting lately have not been completely infested w/ elitist ********, may be one or two, but nothing i can't just completely ignore by striking up a friendly light-hearted conversation with the other members.
Any form of praise/report system will 100% guaranted be abused. Why you may ask? Because that sadly IS human nature for many many personalities.
Never give the community the power or else they will..I guarantee you, abuse it. (Not all of course but I fear......a lot would)
Thats also why a vote kick system is good and bad. many legit afkers , griefers will be replaced but remember there will be many ppl kicked due for unjustified reasons. I can easily see groups of fc or ls majority wasiting to kick a member before last boss dies for loot,no matter what limitations they add ppl WILL find a loop hole, they always do.
I can see many being booted simply cause they are 12 dps lower then everyone else and since most rarely even question the vote to kick, mindlessly agree to the kick (hive mentallity) etc. If/when this is added it will be a life saver for most groups and the tool for abuse for many others.
I have no fix for any endgame/any stage bad community behavior . It is very frustrating at times I agree op and have indeed witnessed some of it myself. It is rampid in every mmo I play, wow, ffxi,rift,tera and Im sure the list goes on and on. Server reputation as in other games only lessens this slightly, makes abuse "privater or quieter" BUT its definately there,nothing eradicates it.
I simply cross my fingers and hope for the best and realistically thats the best you can do.
I know there are very very nice ppl out there, but the cruel and belittling personalities seem to be the ones we all remember since their behavior stands out as so bizarre.
Will these bad encounters cause some to leave, you bet! But hopefully most will try to see past it and not let others ruin their own fun.
Many things may need to be repeated due to this fact but hopefully everyone can experiece/achieve all the hope to.
Never give the community the power or else they will..I guarantee you, abuse it. (Not all of course but I fear......a lot would)
Thats also why a vote kick system is good and bad. many legit afkers , griefers will be replaced but remember there will be many ppl kicked due for unjustified reasons. I can easily see groups of fc or ls majority wasiting to kick a member before last boss dies for loot,no matter what limitations they add ppl WILL find a loop hole, they always do.
I can see many being booted simply cause they are 12 dps lower then everyone else and since most rarely even question the vote to kick, mindlessly agree to the kick (hive mentallity) etc. If/when this is added it will be a life saver for most groups and the tool for abuse for many others.
I have no fix for any endgame/any stage bad community behavior . It is very frustrating at times I agree op and have indeed witnessed some of it myself. It is rampid in every mmo I play, wow, ffxi,rift,tera and Im sure the list goes on and on. Server reputation as in other games only lessens this slightly, makes abuse "privater or quieter" BUT its definately there,nothing eradicates it.
I simply cross my fingers and hope for the best and realistically thats the best you can do.
I know there are very very nice ppl out there, but the cruel and belittling personalities seem to be the ones we all remember since their behavior stands out as so bizarre.
Will these bad encounters cause some to leave, you bet! But hopefully most will try to see past it and not let others ruin their own fun.
Many things may need to be repeated due to this fact but hopefully everyone can experiece/achieve all the hope to.
Bad communities are part of every mmos.
I've only been lvl 50 for less than 2 weeks, but I can say I was with elitist jerks in only 2 runs ( at 560 mythology and did about 20 ifrits runs and 2 garudas). Though, I was paired with bad players more than 2 times but if they don't act like jerk, I take the time to try to teach them and after a few wipe if there is no improvement I will just call it gg and thank everyone for trying.
Out of those 2 runs with jerk, one was with a "pro" marauder that started ******** when someone told him he shouldn't tank the garuda adds where he was tanking it. He got pissed, started ******** and left during our next pull.
The other one was epic. It was in a WP run. Everything was going well, people didn't really talk and we got to second boss. We kill the boss on 1st try but it was a bit sloppy. Our caster died and on the last wave of adds, our whm had to aoe them down while the lancer was single dpsing an add. The lancer didn't bring his add near the whm and we barely won the fight. After the fight, our whm starts ******** at the lancer and our lancer retaliates. Our whm says: gg I don't do this to get whine at by noobs... and says he's going afk. But. He stays at his keyboard and continue talking ****. He doesn't heal and just makes us waste our time. I tell him, I don't care I'll wait the 45 minutes remaining and not leave so he can leave and reQ right away. I go read a book for 10 minutes and come back. Our caster had left the party, a new blm joined and they are trying last boss. I scroll up and read the chat. Our WHM apologized and they decided to move on. So after they wiped, I tanked last boss and we killed it 1st try.
You will come across d-bags, elitists, assh0les... It's part of the internet. But, in my case, it doesn't happen a lot. I use duty finder for almost 95% of the runs I do.
I've only been lvl 50 for less than 2 weeks, but I can say I was with elitist jerks in only 2 runs ( at 560 mythology and did about 20 ifrits runs and 2 garudas). Though, I was paired with bad players more than 2 times but if they don't act like jerk, I take the time to try to teach them and after a few wipe if there is no improvement I will just call it gg and thank everyone for trying.
Out of those 2 runs with jerk, one was with a "pro" marauder that started ******** when someone told him he shouldn't tank the garuda adds where he was tanking it. He got pissed, started ******** and left during our next pull.
The other one was epic. It was in a WP run. Everything was going well, people didn't really talk and we got to second boss. We kill the boss on 1st try but it was a bit sloppy. Our caster died and on the last wave of adds, our whm had to aoe them down while the lancer was single dpsing an add. The lancer didn't bring his add near the whm and we barely won the fight. After the fight, our whm starts ******** at the lancer and our lancer retaliates. Our whm says: gg I don't do this to get whine at by noobs... and says he's going afk. But. He stays at his keyboard and continue talking ****. He doesn't heal and just makes us waste our time. I tell him, I don't care I'll wait the 45 minutes remaining and not leave so he can leave and reQ right away. I go read a book for 10 minutes and come back. Our caster had left the party, a new blm joined and they are trying last boss. I scroll up and read the chat. Our WHM apologized and they decided to move on. So after they wiped, I tanked last boss and we killed it 1st try.
You will come across d-bags, elitists, assh0les... It's part of the internet. But, in my case, it doesn't happen a lot. I use duty finder for almost 95% of the runs I do.
I think a lot of these asshats are WoW players. enough said
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