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If it is any consolation, a lot of these 'elitist asshats' are on their way out of the game anyway. The official forums are filled with whines about nothing to do at end game even after farming all their tomes and posts about leaving. These are the locust players that go from game to game beating each other to level cap and end game experience only to burn through the finite amount of content - then turn around and claim the game is unfinished, has no end game, etc. However, if a dev puts in any kind of grind to extent the content by slowing the player (ah la 10-12 years ago) then they are too traditional, not keeping up with the times, bad/lazy programming, etc. You cannot make an MMO these days without splitting the players into the locust group and the cicada group. One spawns and chews through everything they can before dying out, the other takes their time gnawing on roots and evolving in slower increments. I truly do not know why anyone would get into the MMO business other than to make a quick buck, because it just feels like a fools errand these days.
I think developers continue to do it because they have both a vision and a passion to put a product out there that they want to make. It's obvious that Yoshi has put a lot of effort into remaking this game. Missing Worlds comes to mind to, with their efforts to resurrect City of Heroes. Just because of the "locusts", you cannot stop doing what you love or want to do. There will always be critics and naysayers. So long as you have drive to make a product, bring it to market, and support it, you should go for it.
You cannot control the community or what it will do with and to your game. There are people that do speed runs of games, or create their own challenges with them like minimal heart Zelda runs and such. For them, that is enjoyment. They want to be first, fastest, et cetera. So even if they only buy your product and finish it long before your desired time frame, they still enjoyed that run. It's still worthwhile to have made the game.
Edit:
Again, I am more or less trying to facilitate seeing the other side of the fence, so to speak. Realistically, you cannot expect people to carefully study every minute portion of the game with the same focus as some of us do. I, for one, do try to research as much as possible. I did not for Halatai, and I still regret my performance there, but that's on me. I knew I wasn't as fully prepared as I prefer to be for a run, especially leading it as a tank. But I would not fault a tank for the same issues. The two healers who entered did leave, one with no warning, one commenting that I was "too squishy". I wasn't undergeared, but I also wasn't in HQ. Both times they left, it was over issues created by my lack of knowledge on the dungeon pulls. Had I looked further into the dungeon, or run it as another class first, I could have done better at my role. My fiancee said I was too hard on myself, and was saying that the deaths are how we learn.
That right there shows the differential we're talking about. I, unlike some, don't hold others to the same standards I hold myself to. I would be the one explaining the boss fight before we go in for it. I understand that the dungeons are learning experiences. However, I can understand that people such as myself might carry a different view, thinking that anyone "serious" about the game should be actually looking at every dungeon in detail before running it. I totally get what you're saying and what Filth is saying. There's no real right or wrong as this is really an opinion-based issue. It's not wrong to feel like people are wasting your time because they are unprepared, and it's not wrong to feel like people should be more helpful in guiding newbies into the dungeons. They are how the people feel, and changing that is very difficult. Hell, after the squishy comment, I went out and HQ'd items for my MRD, and debated leveling GLD instead. It's just about your investment level in what you do.
Edited, Oct 19th 2013 11:24am by Pawkeshup
You cannot control the community or what it will do with and to your game. There are people that do speed runs of games, or create their own challenges with them like minimal heart Zelda runs and such. For them, that is enjoyment. They want to be first, fastest, et cetera. So even if they only buy your product and finish it long before your desired time frame, they still enjoyed that run. It's still worthwhile to have made the game.
Edit:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
My concern here is about an unreasonable standard being applied at the wrong stage of the game. I should not have to watch a video guide on Halatali in order to qualify to do Halatali. I should, however, understand basically how my class works and apply that knowledge against what I see in the dungeon. For an experienced MMO player, that's an easy trick we've been doing for years. For a new player, it'll probably take a few attempts to get it right.
Again, I am more or less trying to facilitate seeing the other side of the fence, so to speak. Realistically, you cannot expect people to carefully study every minute portion of the game with the same focus as some of us do. I, for one, do try to research as much as possible. I did not for Halatai, and I still regret my performance there, but that's on me. I knew I wasn't as fully prepared as I prefer to be for a run, especially leading it as a tank. But I would not fault a tank for the same issues. The two healers who entered did leave, one with no warning, one commenting that I was "too squishy". I wasn't undergeared, but I also wasn't in HQ. Both times they left, it was over issues created by my lack of knowledge on the dungeon pulls. Had I looked further into the dungeon, or run it as another class first, I could have done better at my role. My fiancee said I was too hard on myself, and was saying that the deaths are how we learn.
That right there shows the differential we're talking about. I, unlike some, don't hold others to the same standards I hold myself to. I would be the one explaining the boss fight before we go in for it. I understand that the dungeons are learning experiences. However, I can understand that people such as myself might carry a different view, thinking that anyone "serious" about the game should be actually looking at every dungeon in detail before running it. I totally get what you're saying and what Filth is saying. There's no real right or wrong as this is really an opinion-based issue. It's not wrong to feel like people are wasting your time because they are unprepared, and it's not wrong to feel like people should be more helpful in guiding newbies into the dungeons. They are how the people feel, and changing that is very difficult. Hell, after the squishy comment, I went out and HQ'd items for my MRD, and debated leveling GLD instead. It's just about your investment level in what you do.
Edited, Oct 19th 2013 11:24am by Pawkeshup
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
When I ran Dynamis, the alliance leader would schedule about 10-15 minutes before Dynamis Lord to get all the ducks lined up and make sure everyone knew the role they were playing. The entire fight would last 2-3 minutes if we did it right or not (if not, because we all wiped.) You didn't get a "redo" button on Dynamis Lord. You had to wait at minimum three days, and more likely, a month, if you @#%^ed it up.
In that context, it was absolutely worth it to spend those 10 minutes reminding everyone of the strategy, even if everyone had already looked it up prior to the fight.
Two alliances. 36 people - a DPS and tanking/control alliance, and a backline alliance of BLMs and RDMs.
1. MNKst start boosting.
2. BRDs Soul Voice and start rotation
3. THF puller pops flee and grabs DL and the dragons
4. THF gives DL to a waiting PLD who uses Invincible and hits it and vokes it
5. THF drags the dragons far, far away and dies
6. 2nd PLD vokes. In the meantime, everyone starts waiting on him and hopes to get him down before he splits into clones
7. Clones usually spawn near the end anyway and kill the PLDs, all the MNKs and other DDs. 2nd PLD invincibles in time, hopefully.
8. All this time the BLMs on the ledge have been nuking. Dead PLDs = DL teleporting up to them
9. BLMs kill him if DDs didn't before he wiped
In a flawless run, DL would be toast before he split into clones or the 2nd PLD died.
Edited, Oct 19th 2013 11:15am by Catwho
In that context, it was absolutely worth it to spend those 10 minutes reminding everyone of the strategy, even if everyone had already looked it up prior to the fight.
Two alliances. 36 people - a DPS and tanking/control alliance, and a backline alliance of BLMs and RDMs.
1. MNKst start boosting.
2. BRDs Soul Voice and start rotation
3. THF puller pops flee and grabs DL and the dragons
4. THF gives DL to a waiting PLD who uses Invincible and hits it and vokes it
5. THF drags the dragons far, far away and dies
6. 2nd PLD vokes. In the meantime, everyone starts waiting on him and hopes to get him down before he splits into clones
7. Clones usually spawn near the end anyway and kill the PLDs, all the MNKs and other DDs. 2nd PLD invincibles in time, hopefully.
8. All this time the BLMs on the ledge have been nuking. Dead PLDs = DL teleporting up to them
9. BLMs kill him if DDs didn't before he wiped
In a flawless run, DL would be toast before he split into clones or the 2nd PLD died.
Edited, Oct 19th 2013 11:15am by Catwho
Catwho wrote:
The tank we got seemed nice enough at first, but he quickly grew frustrated with the newbie DPS, and abandoned us after the third wave of mobs. Instead of taking the time to explain how to play to someone who, judging from his gear, was still relatively new to the game, the tank just left. "Learn to play," he said, and was gone.
Composure and expectations. Expectations are the root of most conflicts. The tank was nice when everything was going how he wanted. When things were not, he ejected. How in the world will people trust and listen to them if they bail and criticize at the first signs of difficulty?
Catwho wrote:
Instead of calling someone a noob, if you're on a tank job in a low level dungeon, give someone some coaching. Don't be condescending, but explain how hate mechanics work. You'll end up with better DPS in thirty levels that way if you train 'em up early. If you just turn into a princess and leave mid-run, you're not making any friends and you're certainly not going to get better DPS in the long run.
Whether they help people learn or not is up to the individual. However, I know that talking to others as human beings with feelings should come before anything else. Otherwise regardless of what you are trying to accomplish, you set up failure for yourself by being condescending with others. Hitler or Ghandi? You may TRY AND DO as Hitler says, but not with an open heart. And you would probably **** up more due to being afraid of messing up.
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I wouldn't have a problem with giving advice if it were a rare occurrence, but it's not. Far from it. Coaching and explaining encounters to people only encourages them to show up to the next dungeon unprepared. Essentially you're giving a man a fish. I just give them the link above and they can feed themselves. Smiley: nod
It's not a rare occurrence and it never will be. That's how life is, it doesn't care if it inconveniences you. You either accept what is but plan how to move it towards convenience(rest of your life) or check out and complain about how life isn't fair and be miserable in the process. Yes, everyone should read up on things but not everyone will.
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Queue is like applying for a job. You select a role that you think you're qualified for and when 'hired', you're expected to perform that role. You don't show up to a job interview when they expect their prospective employees to have experience and just say "Train me on the job". It's a waste of their time, a waste of their money and by showing that you went out and got experience(or in this case, looked up the critical info you need) you are basically showing them you're at least serious.
Not really. You apply to jobs you want whether you are qualified or not. Employers don't expect, they require proof. And regardless of your past experience, you will still require on the job training as each workplace has different methods.
It's more like a walk-in on the spot hire. Guilds would be more of what you are implying.
HitomeOfBismark wrote:
What do you find to be a reasonable number of attempts before you decide to call it quits without being labeled a princess?
That's up to you and no matter what people say shouldn't dictate that. For me it would be when I shared, explored, and put into action multiple ideas with my group and we still fail. Not always, but sometimes even when I am thinking we may fail. I stick around just to see if my group can surprise me. I get excited!
If you feel deep down you tried your best but it just didn't pan out. Walk away, but do it gracefully.
Quor wrote:
Queue is like a job?
You realize this is a game, right?
You realize this is a game, right?
Google 'metaphor'.
Yes, this is a game. A game where people apply to guilds, linkshells and FC just like you would apply to a job. You list your experience and qualifications and if they're good enough, you get 'hired'. If you can't put the rest of the pieces together on your own then you're beyond my help.
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#57REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 19 2013 at 8:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That's because games are dumbed down for fake casual players. No such thing as a casual player, when FF11 started people worked and had kids. US games that are dumbed down for the US players that want it all now. Relic and AF in 3 weeks times for most players. Something that would take months or years on the first MMO. People basically make it seem like garbage gear.
Queen EmmanuellaLima wrote:
That's because games are dumbed down for fake casual players. No such thing as a casual player, when FF11 started people worked and had kids. US games that are dumbed down for the US players that want it all now. Relic and AF in 3 weeks times for most players. Something that would take months or years on the first MMO. People basically make it seem like garbage gear.
It's hard to believe you bought a premium sub just to troll... yet here you are.
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Yes, this is a game. A game where people apply to guilds, linkshells and FC just like you would apply to a job. You list your experience and qualifications and if they're good enough, you get 'hired'. If you can't put the rest of the pieces together on your own then you're beyond my help.
True, people apply to those things. That has nothing to do with random queues for content.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Archmage Callinon wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Yes, this is a game. A game where people apply to guilds, linkshells and FC just like you would apply to a job. You list your experience and qualifications and if they're good enough, you get 'hired'. If you can't put the rest of the pieces together on your own then you're beyond my help.
True, people apply to those things. That has nothing to do with random queues for content.
You're more likely to be successful if you understand the mechanics of the game, the mechanics of the encounter and show up to a group with a clue. That's all I'm saying. If you wanna be the guy who just goes through knowing you have to stand somewhere, but not knowing why... that's on you. If you're that person who sees a meter filling on their party UI, but has no idea what it means, feel free
Edited, Oct 20th 2013 3:56am by FilthMcNasty
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream
HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free
cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
Queen EmmanuellaLima wrote:
That's because games are dumbed down for fake casual players. No such thing as a casual player, when FF11 started people worked and had kids. US games that are dumbed down for the US players that want it all now. Relic and AF in 3 weeks times for most players. Something that would take months or years on the first MMO. People basically make it seem like garbage gear.
I hate to break it to you, but there was nothing hard about FFXI or any other MMO back in the day. Once you amassed the people needed for said event, things were a cakewalk. People will say that was the challenge, finding these people, but the game itself was not challenging. Time wasting? You betcha, hard, no.
The only reason gear was "hard" to obtain is because they put ridiculous limits on what could be done in a certain amount of time with most events. Dynamis, Salvage, Kings, etc. Even Sky, only reason you wasted so much time is because there was only one NM for each item, then a 15 min timer in between gods. Limiting the number of runs you could in X amount of time.
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Queen EmmanuellaLima wrote:
That's because games are dumbed down for fake casual players. No such thing as a casual player, when FF11 started people worked and had kids. US games that are dumbed down for the US players that want it all now. Relic and AF in 3 weeks times for most players. Something that would take months or years on the first MMO. People basically make it seem like garbage gear.
I hate to break it to you, but there was nothing hard about FFXI or any other MMO back in the day. Once you amassed the people needed for said event, things were a cakewalk. People will say that was the challenge, finding these people, but the game itself was not challenging. Time wasting? You betcha, hard, no.
The only reason gear was "hard" to obtain is because they put ridiculous limits on what could be done in a certain amount of time with most events. Dynamis, Salvage, Kings, etc. Even Sky, only reason you wasted so much time is because there was only one NM for each item, then a 15 min timer in between gods. Limiting the number of runs you could in X amount of time.
Ummm yeah ffxi had a lot of time wasting stuff, but there were thing in it that were just down right hard if you had people or not. Like divine might, salvage, lots of cop missions, einherjar finding the people to do them was never hard winning was
Edited, Oct 20th 2013 11:15am by domice
I was not trying to troll, I was speaking my mind. I was an elite endgame leader from 2003 and up. How nasty they act and most do not know what they doing. The game needs a revamp again. Go to other forums and make any comment about the game looking anything like FFXI. They will trash you none stop. I paid to get rid of the ads. I had to plan weekends and months ahead of time for events to get people access to places and other events. Then I had to find people I could trust to lead HNM runs and hold gil for players in different time zones. 2 to 4 hours is a normal player not a casual player. Casual to me is 15 to 30 minutes. They have smartphones that have MMORPG that if you want casual you can play it.
I am use to testing a players skill to see what level they have. Which if its bad, that meant they needed to go out with other linkshell members. Party together and learn each other playing style. I have been on Arcanist and they wipe because they do not want to listen. The tank can have no real gear on which means I need to back the healer up. He will die and the healer will take on to much hate from spam healing. SE made this game that its telling you the role and its the only role. However, its sitting with resurrection and other heals. SE revamp some jobs that they are perfect now. Summoner being one of them. No running across a zone to do a HNM solo. You can sit and control everything right their.
I've tried to teach people things in dungeons that could make them wipe and they do not care. You get the warnings from them not handling regular mobs correctly. I dare you tell a tank or healer what they are doing wrong. You will get cussed out in that dungeon so fast.
I am use to testing a players skill to see what level they have. Which if its bad, that meant they needed to go out with other linkshell members. Party together and learn each other playing style. I have been on Arcanist and they wipe because they do not want to listen. The tank can have no real gear on which means I need to back the healer up. He will die and the healer will take on to much hate from spam healing. SE made this game that its telling you the role and its the only role. However, its sitting with resurrection and other heals. SE revamp some jobs that they are perfect now. Summoner being one of them. No running across a zone to do a HNM solo. You can sit and control everything right their.
I've tried to teach people things in dungeons that could make them wipe and they do not care. You get the warnings from them not handling regular mobs correctly. I dare you tell a tank or healer what they are doing wrong. You will get cussed out in that dungeon so fast.
#63REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 20 2013 at 6:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I have not been back before 75 went 99. I do not know what it is like now. I got engaged to a guy I met on the game in real life. This game has no party system unless its a dungeon.
Queen EmmanuellaLima wrote:
I was not trying to troll
You ***** about this game like you hate it, yet you paid for an account to post here to eliminate ads (meaning that you want to spend time here)... But you're not trolling. Oh, and you're stunned by the fact that people don't greet you with welcome arms when you compare the game to FFXI... but yet that's how you post. I don't think it's you comparing the game. I think it's you. You need to realize that your posts are virtual garbage, useless whining, utter wastes of digital space. That's more why you are receiving a backlash.
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
I paid because no ads and you can make your own avatar. I played the game since beta 3 and 4. I saw that the game could go into the DC Universe Online route with not having to learn. They would rush the game and use gear as back up for bad play. No one has to accept me with open arms. This game does not work like a community. This game copied a few things from games that went free to play. I already paid 180 days so I am just saying how I feel.
I have tried to help people on this game. I have even offered to buy them gear when they do not have any. Some take it as offensive to help or give money. I have done dungeons where we have good gear. Tank does not have any real gear at all. This one person looted everything and won over the tanks need. Which I do not know if they are using the old day hacks.
How I responded in the post should have been more respectful. After I read it over again and seeing that there are other women in this forum then myself. I should have taken the time to write a proper post. My backlashes on the other sites were not from me rude like this. I was very polite and asked questioned. My attitude I gave off is from being nice and having backlash for no reason. They bash all FFXI players on the other forums. ZAM is a old forum and I came back to it. Killingifrit.com seems to have died off a little.
I already have sent apologies to the other women I might have offended. I am sorry if I offended you as well. I hope you can forgive me for seeming disrespectful to you.
I have tried to help people on this game. I have even offered to buy them gear when they do not have any. Some take it as offensive to help or give money. I have done dungeons where we have good gear. Tank does not have any real gear at all. This one person looted everything and won over the tanks need. Which I do not know if they are using the old day hacks.
How I responded in the post should have been more respectful. After I read it over again and seeing that there are other women in this forum then myself. I should have taken the time to write a proper post. My backlashes on the other sites were not from me rude like this. I was very polite and asked questioned. My attitude I gave off is from being nice and having backlash for no reason. They bash all FFXI players on the other forums. ZAM is a old forum and I came back to it. Killingifrit.com seems to have died off a little.
I already have sent apologies to the other women I might have offended. I am sorry if I offended you as well. I hope you can forgive me for seeming disrespectful to you.
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I hate to break it to you, but there was nothing hard about FFXI or any other MMO back in the day. Once you amassed the people needed for said event, things were a cakewalk. People will say that was the challenge, finding these people, but the game itself was not challenging. Time wasting? You betcha, hard, no.
The only reason gear was "hard" to obtain is because they put ridiculous limits on what could be done in a certain amount of time with most events. Dynamis, Salvage, Kings, etc. Even Sky, only reason you wasted so much time is because there was only one NM for each item, then a 15 min timer in between gods. Limiting the number of runs you could in X amount of time.
That's not true either. FFXI's content was mostly affected by those things, but you're forgetting the long drawn out fights with kiting Kirin. It makes Titan HM look like a cakewalk by comparison. Odin, AV, PW, content like 6-4 airship before they nerfed it. None of those things listed had to do with finding people. Those fights were freaking hard, no way around it. I could list more, but I've proved you wrong already so I'll stop.
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I hate to break it to you, but there was nothing hard about FFXI or any other MMO back in the day. Once you amassed the people needed for said event, things were a cakewalk. People will say that was the challenge, finding these people, but the game itself was not challenging. Time wasting? You betcha, hard, no.
The only reason gear was "hard" to obtain is because they put ridiculous limits on what could be done in a certain amount of time with most events. Dynamis, Salvage, Kings, etc. Even Sky, only reason you wasted so much time is because there was only one NM for each item, then a 15 min timer in between gods. Limiting the number of runs you could in X amount of time.
That's not true either. FFXI's content was mostly affected by those things, but you're forgetting the long drawn out fights with kiting Kirin. It makes Titan HM look like a cakewalk by comparison. Odin, AV, PW, content like 6-4 airship before they nerfed it. None of those things listed had to do with finding people. Those fights were freaking hard, no way around it. I could list more, but I've proved you wrong already so I'll stop.
Who the hell lost to Kirin, ever? 6-4 took about two tries. AV was beaten easily once they moddified how she worked, same with PW. AV was never meant to be taken down initially. Again, hardest time I had with these fights was finding time to farm the pop items. They're all the same as the XIV primals, gimmicky, but with pop requirements. People find the primals easy cause you can spam them 100 times in a day. Do the same for any FFXI mob and I can assure you'd be saying, man this is easy, I know exactly when PW is gonna do this next atk.
Depends on what year you did Kirin. You have to remember the game changed easier down the line. Kirin got to the point where people zerged it and it was 2 to 4 minute fight. AV got nerfed; first linkshell to beat it was Apathy. I was their watching the whole thing; they had it pinned through a glitch through a wall. The leader was on the other side to get the drops when it happened. The whole server that had Sea access was their. Sea got nerfed as well because it was dead before that. Sea was deadly for along time because no linkshells. HNM running free all the time.
They nerfed XI hardcore by the time the 3rd DLC came out. No one would leave the white gate area to even play the forth DLC. The forth DLC went back to the original game play. You would only see people doing the ballista type Pvp. They nerfed the skill leveling system. You did not have to spend a lot of time focusing on leveling the skills at all. They nerfed how much exp it took you to level twice. Level fifty-five made it that bad players could not get past it.
It depends did you do this 2002 to 2004 or 2005 and up. When the game was losing people fast to WoW. They were trying their best to change the game fast enough to compete. The game got to the point you could zerge every HNM that made elite linkshells drop like flies. Everyone was able to do all of the endgame. Tons of jobs got super buffs doing a ten-year period. Forgot, some HNM got set to a hour before they raged later in the game. Skilled players could solo or do them in low groups and people complained.
They nerfed XI hardcore by the time the 3rd DLC came out. No one would leave the white gate area to even play the forth DLC. The forth DLC went back to the original game play. You would only see people doing the ballista type Pvp. They nerfed the skill leveling system. You did not have to spend a lot of time focusing on leveling the skills at all. They nerfed how much exp it took you to level twice. Level fifty-five made it that bad players could not get past it.
It depends did you do this 2002 to 2004 or 2005 and up. When the game was losing people fast to WoW. They were trying their best to change the game fast enough to compete. The game got to the point you could zerge every HNM that made elite linkshells drop like flies. Everyone was able to do all of the endgame. Tons of jobs got super buffs doing a ten-year period. Forgot, some HNM got set to a hour before they raged later in the game. Skilled players could solo or do them in low groups and people complained.
Got a story:
I entered Haukke Manor as a Pugilist, my significant other as Arcanist, the other two were Gladiator and Scholar.
We introduce ourselves with the common courtesy of Hello. I ask if anyone has any questions on the dungeon, and get a No from everyone. We engage the first two set of monsters and the scholar and gladiator begin having a friendly conversation about Jay Wilson getting fired and joking around. The tank goes on to say he is multi-tasking playing Pokemon and reading the news. Then he dies...
I don't know if this was a mistype or on purpose, but he says"Why do I always get grouped up with the ****** healers in dungeons.."
The healer explains their cat spilled coke all over their keyboard and they are sorry for the death. From there tank goes off on a tangent about the healer being a noob, fat loser, lives in their mom's house, etc,etc. The healer responds more civil but the argument goes back and forth twenty minutes. The dungeon is at a standstill!
Finally I mediate enough for them to calm down enough to continue the dungeon.(Felt relieved!) We pull a couple more and then it starts anew. Tank accuses healer of not healing. I don't know if there was truth to that or not but he wasn't dying. At every mid-boss the tank doesn't enter and gets locked out. We win and advance further.
We get to the end boss. A delay happens again. By this time tank is going off on everyone, yet still I never waiver and try and help us get this done. We go in without him out of boredom. ANDDDDDD
we WIN! The tank half apologized and we all went our separate ways.
Morale of the story: Who was right? In my opinion it doesn't matter. The healer got to prove the were not a noob and the tank learned a bit of of humility. As for the rest of us? We got entertainment and in the end is it was all words. At least those two both stuck around for the duration without ejecting. Other than the fat homeless comments, I wasn't quite sure if they were flirting or hated each other. It's a thin line.
I entered Haukke Manor as a Pugilist, my significant other as Arcanist, the other two were Gladiator and Scholar.
We introduce ourselves with the common courtesy of Hello. I ask if anyone has any questions on the dungeon, and get a No from everyone. We engage the first two set of monsters and the scholar and gladiator begin having a friendly conversation about Jay Wilson getting fired and joking around. The tank goes on to say he is multi-tasking playing Pokemon and reading the news. Then he dies...
I don't know if this was a mistype or on purpose, but he says"Why do I always get grouped up with the ****** healers in dungeons.."
The healer explains their cat spilled coke all over their keyboard and they are sorry for the death. From there tank goes off on a tangent about the healer being a noob, fat loser, lives in their mom's house, etc,etc. The healer responds more civil but the argument goes back and forth twenty minutes. The dungeon is at a standstill!
Finally I mediate enough for them to calm down enough to continue the dungeon.(Felt relieved!) We pull a couple more and then it starts anew. Tank accuses healer of not healing. I don't know if there was truth to that or not but he wasn't dying. At every mid-boss the tank doesn't enter and gets locked out. We win and advance further.
We get to the end boss. A delay happens again. By this time tank is going off on everyone, yet still I never waiver and try and help us get this done. We go in without him out of boredom. ANDDDDDD
we WIN! The tank half apologized and we all went our separate ways.
Morale of the story: Who was right? In my opinion it doesn't matter. The healer got to prove the were not a noob and the tank learned a bit of of humility. As for the rest of us? We got entertainment and in the end is it was all words. At least those two both stuck around for the duration without ejecting. Other than the fat homeless comments, I wasn't quite sure if they were flirting or hated each other. It's a thin line.
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Who the hell lost to Kirin, ever? 6-4 took about two tries. AV was beaten easily once they moddified how she worked, same with PW. AV was never meant to be taken down initially. Again, hardest time I had with these fights was finding time to farm the pop items. They're all the same as the XIV primals, gimmicky, but with pop requirements. People find the primals easy cause you can spam them 100 times in a day. Do the same for any FFXI mob and I can assure you'd be saying, man this is easy, I know exactly when PW is gonna do this next atk.
You really don't want me to answer this question. Kirin was a very hard endgame boss for the majority of FFXI linkshells. It wasn't until they began to burn him down did he get easier for the majority of the playerbase. As someone who kited Kirin for hours even with pre-nerf Rangers trying to take him down, Kirin days sucked. You can't tell me that fighting Titan is harder than Kirin? If you wipe, you simply reset and try again with full life and no downtime. If you wiped with Kirin, you probably had it stolen or worse had to zombie it.
AV and PW were never easily beaten either, not at the lv75 cap. Please don't alter history to win an argument with someone else. Maybe your LS did well on these HNM, but that was the exception, not the rule.
FFXI mobs would be easier too if you had unlimited chances per day to win. The fact you don't so your point is moot and dismissed.
Quote:
I was not trying to troll, I was speaking my mind.
Unfortunately having an opinion around here that differs from the hive-mind often ends up in accusations of trolling, as if you were trying to eat babies.
It's one of those things where if it gets repeated enough most people will believe it to be true. However, this isn't a biased media site where you'd usually find that kind of thing, it's just other people's agendas getting in the way (and a little bit of new poster bullying by the look of it).
To counter the sentiment in this thread, I had a perfect DF Halitali run last night as a DPS. I'm not aware of this "plague on the community" that people are speaking of. While it's true that people shouldn't be jerks, that's common sense. I think the scale of issues like the one mentioned is largely inflated by people to bolster their diatribes. Are we all that thin-skinned that we can't deal with the occasional obnoxious person?
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Who the hell lost to Kirin, ever? 6-4 took about two tries. AV was beaten easily once they moddified how she worked, same with PW. AV was never meant to be taken down initially. Again, hardest time I had with these fights was finding time to farm the pop items. They're all the same as the XIV primals, gimmicky, but with pop requirements. People find the primals easy cause you can spam them 100 times in a day. Do the same for any FFXI mob and I can assure you'd be saying, man this is easy, I know exactly when PW is gonna do this next atk.
You really don't want me to answer this question. Kirin was a very hard endgame boss for the majority of FFXI linkshells. It wasn't until they began to burn him down did he get easier for the majority of the playerbase. As someone who kited Kirin for hours even with pre-nerf Rangers trying to take him down, Kirin days sucked. You can't tell me that fighting Titan is harder than Kirin? If you wipe, you simply reset and try again with full life and no downtime. If you wiped with Kirin, you probably had it stolen or worse had to zombie it.
AV and PW were never easily beaten either, not at the lv75 cap. Please don't alter history to win an argument with someone else. Maybe your LS did well on these HNM, but that was the exception, not the rule.
FFXI mobs would be easier too if you had unlimited chances per day to win. The fact you don't so your point is moot and dismissed.
So you incorporate getting pops and having to try again weakened OR with another pop set as hard? Right. There's clearly no sense arguing here, if that's your definition of hard...along with kiting...wow. Forget comparing the ACTUAL boss fight itself fight for fight. Not the way to get to it and reset it. Anyways, I think were done here as someone had difficulty with Kirin, but not Titan.
Just compare it, fight for fight. If you could fight both 100 times in a row, which would be harder? Neither, they're the same stupid mechanics.
Edited, Oct 21st 2013 1:25am by Montsegurnephcreep
Quote:
Unfortunately having an opinion around here that differs from the hive-mind often ends up in accusations of trolling, as if you were trying to eat babies.
Her first sentence:
Quote:
That's because games are dumbed down for fake casual players.
There's no way to interpret that other than "I'm trying to get a rise out of people by saying something inflammatory." It didn't improve from there. That's troll behavior. I'll accept her later statement that she didn't intend to do that (sort of), but that's what happened. Nothing to do with the "hive mind." Everything to do with forum etiquette.
I also reject the notion that FFXI was somehow inherently superior because people were worse at MMORPGs eleven years ago. Kiting Kirin was hard. Kirin became easy when the strategy was changed. Ergo, you were doing Kirin incorrectly. Absolute Virtue wasn't intended to be defeated (and indeed the first kill required cheating). SE changed the encounter to make it winnable after that. It isn't a matter of that game getting easier (although it did over time), you just got better at playing it.
Comparisons between modern and older games nearly always fail to take into account the fact that the players have steadily improved their own skills and have gotten better at playing the games themselves. The biggest change between then and now is the reduction or elimination of ridiculous time sinks, nothing more. Time investment != difficulty. Therefore time spent != skill.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
So you incorporate getting pops and having to try again weakened OR with another pop set as hard? Right. There's clearly no sense arguing here, if that's your definition of hard...along with kiting...wow. Forget comparing the ACTUAL boss fight itself fight for fight. Not the way to get to it and reset it. Anyways, I think were done here as someone had difficulty with Kirin, but not Titan.
Just compare it, fight for fight. If you could fight both 100 times in a row, which would be harder? Neither, they're the same stupid mechanics.
You're putting words in my mouth. I won't be bullied by you. I'm done, go fight with someone else.
Just had myself a nice run in with one of these princess tanks, calls himself Dash Berlin. I queued up for WP and got into a group where the tank and DD left the second they found out it's the other two's first time in WP. Princess over here decided to not be helpful at all, and yell at everyone when things go wrong, even though they probably have no idea what to even do due to being new to it.
God, a vote-kick feature can't come soon enough...
God, a vote-kick feature can't come soon enough...
Kuyo - Hume Male - Pandemonium server (Retired)
75 Monk, 75 Samurai
75 Monk, 75 Samurai
I must admit, as a paladin, I abandoned a DF party today for my first time. We were only about 10 minutes in, but it was already a disaster. The whm was admittedly drunk, and would do nothing for periods of time while people died. I left because we literally had no chance of winning, and I knew I would get a better party after 15 minutes.
I was right, and breezed to victory with my next party.
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