Princess TanksFollow

I have exactly the opposite reaction to this suggestion: I think it would be amazing to have a "click-here-if-you're-a-douchebag" box in the duty finder that would segregate you from the non-douchebags.

I feel GTA had a nice system for this though. Get enough bad Karma stacked up so you become a "Bad Sport", and you can only play with other people who are "Bad Sports". Ofcourse their system is a little flawed as in simply being kicked by the host, disconnecting or leaving mid-game for whatever reason already gets you on the track towards being a "Bad Sport". You then were forced into a timer that slowly ticked down, and 48 hours later you're let back into the general group again.

Maybe votes in FFXIV? If 3 out of 4 people vote someone as being a really bad person, however easily this is exploited, have them get kicked and get one point of negative Karma. When a certain number of negative karma's a day have been reached, let the person who got it be unable to party-up with anyone who doesnt have negative karma as well, and duty finder automatically grouping them with other such jerks.

Kick in the face thing would be to have people who have previously been bad sports get it more and more easily with less and less votes required each time. Slowly ticking away with +1 karma each day up to a maximum of 0.

Collectors Edition... $90.

90 day subscription... $40+

Waiting 30+ minutes in DF for a tank/healer to QQ over a tank/healer.... $Priceless.

Is it bad that I've grown less concerned about my rotations compared to if tank/heal won't have a meltdown and bail?

So what happens when someone doesnt know the fight, you tell them to go look it up right quick, and they tell you to F off? Do you all just sit and stare at each other till someone drops group

Don't get me wrong, If I'm queing up for something I don't know I go look it up if I'm going to pug it. I even read up on Cutter's Cry before I ran it even though we did it in a FC group just cause everyone talks about how hard it is so I wanted to have a heads up before we went in.

And yeah, while catering to laziness is just going to create more laziness, a little kindness can also go a long way, but then this is probably why there are so many ******** in these games anymore, Cause everyone has just gotten to lazy to help someone else out cause it infringes on their "time" and just treats everyone like **** anymore.

When you queue up for a dungeon, you should have already done a little research to find out what you're supposed to do. Why wouldn't you take a few minutes to familiarize yourself with what to expect when you have a quest to complete?

Queue is like applying for a job. You select a role that you think you're qualified for and when 'hired', you're expected to perform that role. You don't show up to a job interview when they expect their prospective employees to have experience and just say "Train me on the job". It's a waste of their time, a waste of their money and by showing that you went out and got experience(or in this case, looked up the critical info you need) you are basically showing them you're at least serious.

If you don't take yourself seriously, you shouldn't expect other people to.

I agree with you entirely..

If you're talking about raiding.

When you're talking about dungeon queues.. no. It's not reasonable to assume that, and it's not reasonable to hold random strangers to that standard, especially in very low level dungeons.

Looking up strategies online for leveling dungeons is not a common practice anywhere. And even if it were, no new player would think to do it.

I agree that raids and raiding FCs will require a bit more of a time investment, and they should. But people just queuing up for dungeons while they level? No.

Yeah....no, I'm not doing that, mainly for 3 reasons:

1.) It's a dungeon
2.) It's a dungeon, and
3.) It's a dungeon!

I can learn the fight by doing far quicker than dinking around on the internet for someone's opinion on how something might be done best, when usually, until a game is well established (read: not FFXIV yet), it has a dedicated core group to make guides. Most of the dungeon guides are STILL terrible for this game.

No.. that's just someone else giving him a fish. A far better analogy would be teaching him how to learn boss fights quickly. Good luck with that, I've never been successful at teaching people to learn.

EDIT: You might also make the case for showing him where videos are being equivalent to introducing him to the fish market. Either way, dude still doesn't know how to fish.

Edited, Oct 18th 2013 10:39pm by Callinon

While I agree with you that having prior knowledge ahead of time is a good thing, I personally am not going to berate someone for not having done so, For all you or I know, that person could be some 14 year old kid who loves Final Fantasy, and his Mom bought him the game for his birthday. I'm not going to rip him a new ******* for being new to MMO's and not wanting to spend time reading up on dungeons. I guess I'm just different in the sense that I have no problem being helpful to people, even after 3-4 wipes in a dungeon. For me the satisfaction of beating something that was a struggle to get through is more satisfying then finding a guide and following it verbatim through a dungeon.

You have to remember, we were all new to this at one point Now if its someone who is to lazy to help themselves or at least not take/try my advice, that's different.

Also, I'm sorry, but IMO, the whole job application analogy to me is way off the mark, I'm playing a ******* game FFS, not filling out an app for NASA. If you take it that seriously, well then, you probably shouldn't join PUG's.

For me, after 7 years of WoW and spending countless hours reading up on classes, raids, and whatever else, its just gotten to the point that I don't care to do the research anymore. Like the whole time I'm reading I just keep thinking to myself that I could just be playing, although with the experience I have, its not all that hard to figure out anymore. I still check up on things, but I just don't get that into it anymore. We did Garuda the other day, I skimmed though the video on youtube like 30 secs before we went in, the tank did a quick break down on what he was going to do, and we got it on the second try. That's about the extent that I'm willing to go anymore, unless its serious raiding. I just don't have the time to spend reading up on every little detail.

And again what Archmage Callinon said, when it comes to raiding, I am 100% behind the fact that you should know everything you can prior to entering a raid, not when running dungeons though.

Leveling another job, crafting, gathering, etc

Queue is like a job?

You realize this is a game, right?

Maybe people want to, you know, enjoy the game without doing homework. Having gone through grad school, and all the **** that comes with it, I can tell you right now if someone wanted me to do mandatory homework to actively participate in a pleasure activity, I would respectfully tell them to go **** themselves.

See, it's a game, not a job....people play a game, and they like to challenge themselves. They like to learn by doing, or by figuring out themselves. I didn't watch a single damn video on Ifrit or Garuda; I just Q'd up and let my instincts take over. I screwed up a few times, and some people said "Hey, try this" and I did, and it worked. This is called building a community. Something that happens with player interaction that goes above and beyond a "git gud" response. Because that's what saying "go watch a video" amounts to.

Hell, I didn't even watch videos for Titan until I had tried it out on my own. Then I realized it was really damn complex, and I didn't want to be "that guy" who dragged the group down because of ignorance. But I had gone into Titan and given it my best shot without any prior knowledge, so I felt good about giving it the old college try. And I think most people have that same attitude; they want to challenge themselves while simultaneously seeking out stronger community ties. The game is just more enjoyable when people help each other. And help does not constitute being told to watch tutorials before you even see a fight.

As an aside, my friends and I like to "beat the protect timer" in AK. Get to demon-dog-boss-thing before the timer on protect wears off. Me and two of them Q into AK tonight with a BLM who had never been to AK. He told us he was new, we said to strap in because he was going for a ride, and we beat that thing in like 35 minutes. Not bad for a first timer. Sure, we explained fights, and he died on Demon Wall near the end, but he did well, adapted just fine, and wasn't a burden. He was an asset. And he said afterwards that he had a damn good time doing it. We've probably ruined the guy on AK now; nothing else will measure up. But that's ok, because we had fun.

You know, fun? That thing you do that's enjoyable? And not at all like work? Or homework? Unless you're that one kid in class who was all "Teacher, you forgot to give us homework tonight!" or something. ***** that kid.

I figured people would take issue with the job metaphor. Let's try to clarify first without going metaphor happy.

When you are playing a single player experience, your investment and enjoyment are solely your own. You can choose to go in blind, learn as you go. You can rely on guides if you get stuck, or you can outright just follow a complete walkthrough. You get the ability to do that, and only your personal enjoyment is impacted for any of those choices.

Once you move into multi-player games, especially co-op games, now your choices can ruin the experience for more than just yourself. You cannot always play the game the way you want because now you may wind up having people ditch you or confront you over what you are doing, and how what you are doing is ruining the game for them. In an MMO, this can become even more of an issue. Since you need to have teamwork on most dungeons and almost all raids, one person deciding that they can just experiment and potentially **** the entire run can ruin the time and investment of everyone else.

So let's venture back into analogy territory, shall we?

You want to start playing an organized sport, let's say hockey. Now let's say you don't know the rules, how to skate, or even the basic skills of how to play. There are plenty of ways to learn how to do this. You could join with a few friends in a just-for-fun beer league (ie a FC or LS), and learn the ropes as you go. Your friends will help you out, be more understanding than strangers, and since it's just for fun, you are less likely to wind up upsetting anyone by fumbling about. You could read up on strategies, and practice on your own, then try to join up with a more competitive league to test your skills, but they will likely want to see proof of your skills (FC's that have requirements).

Another way would be to go play at pick-up games (Duty Finder). Now, before going there, it might be good at least to learn some of the fundamentals. You would have others relying on your knowledge of at least the rules of the game, if nothing else, to be effective. If you just showed up with the proper equipment and hopped on the ice without reviewing anything at all, you could ruin the enjoyment of the entire team. You would then turn what should be fun into a chore as that entire team has to take the time to teach you everything you should have known before hopping onto the ice.