Training DummiesFollow

http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/threads/110764-Training-Dummies?p=1340653#post1340653

LMAO This wasn't supposed to turn into a Parsing thread. I'm thinking it was the Subject Heading that mislead people into thinking the subject was about dumb players.

Training Dummies

As some of you may have noticed in your travels, we've set up training dummies around the world to aid you with your battle tactics!

We’ve heard of some players having issues with not being able to change classes because the dummy still has enmity (If I couldn't move and fight back I'd hate you too…). As this enmity will not disappear over time, just gain some distance from it (don't worry, it's a dummy it can't chase you!) and you'll be able to change classes no problemo!

One other thing to note is that these dummies know when you are attacking from the front, side, and rear, so you can test out all your combo effects on these guys as well.


So that's what they're there for. Sic Em Carby!!

Edited, Aug 22nd 2013 1:05pm by Grandmomma

Neat, I can use them for macro testing.

Not saying I don't approve of the things that have been tweaked and added... (dummies, new gathering abilities, less hits per node) but why are we not hard at work on the server side to make things run oh so smooth on there end first... then add such things?

Oh right!

Parsers are necessary for maximizing your dps. If you don't have numbers to prove your rotations, then you're just guessing. In raids you need it to show who isn't pulling their weight and dragging the group down, causing wipes. That weenie won't have a raid group anymore :(

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Since when have your eyes been able to log damage information for an entire fight and compute how much damage you're doing per second at any given time with all buffs up or without buffs, while also computing how much the rest of the group is doing all within a millisecond of it occurring. You're talking nonsense.

I've never told anyone that they fail and they should end their life. A parser is a tool that should be used. Not all fights are about strategy. Some have enrage timers that need to be beat in order to win. If someone is lagging behind in dps, it's necessary to tell them to improve or replace them. You're making a lot of assumptions. If it were a team drag race for example, you would be able to see (with your eyes) the car that isn't keeping up and dragging the over all 1/4 mile time average down. You can't see that with your eyes in a boss fight. Addons like recount give you a visual of the problem so that the guy in the stock civic can do what is necessary to keep up with the team and win the race.

Your argument still in no way says anything about parsers being a "crutch". You're only saying that it leads to elitism. Elitism is an attitude, governed by someone's personality, not what addons they use to streamline their performance.

*I'd also like to point out that in a community like FF's, a lot of people will be raiding with their friends and guild mates. In that case, your comrades will help you improve your damage/healing/mitigation to ensure the success of the group. If they're kicking you out of the group and calling you names, you need a new group of people to play with. It's happened to me many times throughout the years, you just deal with it and fix the problem.

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 7:11pm by Transmigration

Trans, I agree with everything you are saying except the bolded parts. It's exactly what I don't like about parsers. It ends up singling people out and basically saying "improve, or you're gone." Yes, there are battles where it's a DPS race and you need to have everyone working efficiently, and yes that's what a parser is good at determining. But rather than giving the lowest player an ultimatum to improve or be replaced, I'd much rather someone take the time to mentor that person, help them understand their rotation, and show them the best ways to increase their DPS. Sometimes players really need to learn by example, not learn by fear of being booted for someone better. That absolutely breeds elitism.

I have a feeling that it isn't what you meant to imply with your posts, but it really came off like the lowest members are expendable in order to achieve goals, and I really hate that mentality in a group. As long as you are clearing the content, a parser should be a self-evaluation tool. If you aren't clearing content, and it's actually due to the DPS being too low, then it needs to be evaluated and the lowest members need to be given a helping hand, not a kick out the door.

Ehllfire, if you honestly don't see the value and benefit of a parser, you really don't understand how an MMO works. Regardless of what you think your eyes are seeing, you will never full realize your potential until you can compare different abilities with actual numbers, determine whether or not a DoT is worth using, determine when the ideal time to use certain buffs/debuffs is, etc. All of these things are easily identified by parsing, whereas just using the eye test can often times be misleading due to not paying close enough attention, hidden variables, or just not getting a large enough sample size of actual statistical data.

Sorry for the long-winded post, parsers tend to be a touchy subject for me.

I completely agree that players should be coached and helped instead of being tossed aside. I know how that feels, and it sucks. I'm sorry if it came out that way.

Here is why I started believing in the use of parsers:
Back when FFXI launched I had two favorite jobs. Monk and Dragoon. It was hell finding a group sometimes.. know why? Because people parsed with their eyeballs and didn't see my hits adding up to those of a Dark Knight or other heavy hitting jobs. Then one day some guys started computing the DPS (they called it DoT back then, which was kinda weird..). They showed the players that Monks hit much faster and their damage often added up to much more than a DK's in an xp fight. They showed that the Dragoon's wyvern balanced their slow hitting speed and put them on par as well. All of the sudden people were seeking out my job for groups! Without people like Pathfinder (old math guy from FFXI), Monks wouldn't have seen the light of day (literally, they'd be stuck in KRT all the time ).

So although parsers and the like can lead to nasty people being nastier, I think the benefits outweigh the downside. Just my opinion.

*Lest us forget, most FFXI players did not use parsers, and yet many jobs were benched in order to hit merrit chain 100+ etc. Elitism and out casting is inevitable. At least with a parser, you can prove your worth to people to gain a spot. Anyway that's all, I didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers.

Edited, Aug 21st 2013 7:29pm by Transmigration

I gotta admit, I agree with you in essence, but not in tone. If you use a DPS parser to tinker with your own rotation, then more power to you. I, for one, don't really care if I squeeze out that last 5 dps for the fight as long as the mob dies before me or my group. If it doesn't I try something different. Never needed a parser, never will use one. There aren't that many skills and rotations at this point to warrant it. Now if you are using a parser to judge other people... well that is at its base, elitism. You are judging everyone else by some standard and calling out weak links. If the person is not standing around roasting marshmellows in the fire or off AFK in the zone picking daisies and they are actively engaging the enemy and trying, then who am I to go telling them how to play their game? If you wipe to the boss, try something different. Wipe again, then discuss as a group what else to try. In a raid, it is a team effort and as long as the team is trying, some people will make up for others at different times.

Just my opinion on the subject. I am, nor ever was, some hardcore numbers junkie who needed to justify my game enjoyment with some boss trophy list or crazy dps avg numbers or BiS gear. I do enough number and data crunching at work, don't need it in a game I play for enjoyment. Some people dig that, and good on them - but they aren't my crowd and I'll have just as much fun with a group of people like me wiping on a boss a few times and figuring things out tactics-wise than playing the numbers game. I'd venture to say, changing tactics could very well be akin to having a higher dps rotation in the end, but I don't need a parser to get there. To each their own though. As long as you do right by you and have a good time, then that is what it is about along with finding others like-minded.

Pretty much this. It's ultimately the same in actual team sports as well. Sabremetrics, moneyball, whatever you want to call it, you still need to factor in the intangibles of a situation. Parsing numbers and crunching damage totals can only go so far until you see that some people just panic the eff out when they are in a hairy situation against a certain boss that has a special means to be fought, or has a plethora of minions, or some other mechanic that can't be judged solely based off of the numbers.

This is exactly what puts me off about playing, I don't really want another job, I have one and a very stressful one too. The last thing I want to do is to come home to relax and play the game only to find my **** is pinned to the wall for not quite pulling my weight. I envisioned more of a casual and fun gaming experience, thank goodness there is room for non-hardcore players in the ls/fc because that's the level I am comfortable playing with.

However, if that's what floats your boat, then more power to you.