I read your second article, and I have to say your input about MMO veterans interested me a good deal because I've had a similar experience yesterday. No, I wasn't out having coffee with Mike, but I talked to other MMO veterans on the game and I asked them how they felt about it.
First of all, my first MMO was FFXI, so I'm a person who is used to slow, methodical, positioned-based gameplay. Mathematics and gear check scenarios are a norm for me, and I always aim to get the best gear at the time and make the most efficient choice. I play my role to the best of my ability and experiment on how to better myself. Once I was done with that game, I've journeyed through other MMOs such as Aion, SWTOR, and GW2. So I've seen multiple combat styles and vastly different progression methods.
I've played almost all of Phase 3 Beta. I cleared out all desirable content, tried out Gathering classes, Crafting classes, posted on forums to check out bugs, ran dungeons multiple times as both Gladiator and Lancer, and sometimes just sat back and enjoyed the scenery and ambiance. As we speak, even though I'm practically done with everything, I feel the urge to hop back on before Phase 3 ends and run dungeons on my GLA just for the fun of it.
This is a good sign.
My linkshell has different gaming histories. One person is a WoW veteran and runs nightly raids with his Guild, and he plans on dropping that game entirely as soon as FFXIV is released. Another played FFXI and XIV 1.0, and he's in love with the game. Another one came from EVE Online and Tera, and he enjoys the crafting system. Overall, they're all massively impressed with the game. They enjoy the dungeons, the multiple class switching, they even nerdgasmed over the Auto-Translate function, which is something that has been in FFXI ever since it began.
This is a great sign.
Now of course this is just a small pool of numbers, not even over 10. However, they're all MMO veterans from different backgrounds. I honestly don't know how ARR is appealing to such a large diversity of veterans, but it is, contrary to the official forums' belief.
However, my worry lies with the casuals. As everyone knows, RPGs these days are becoming more action-based. This means physically dodging instead of relying on a RNG, and physically aiming your attacks and having a slew of abilities to change the pace of battle. While I know FFXIV has a lot to do, I fear having all those choices may bring a mediocre first impression to casuals, the battle system especially since it takes quite awhile to start really seeing the depth, because Action RPGs usually has a strong start to excite you and drives you to play. Veterans aren't affected by a slow start because we all know the real meat of the game is at max level (or they came from FFXI/Everquest), but Newcomers don't know that. If Newcomers aren't impressed by, say, the first two hours of gameplay, will they continue to play? Let alone getting to max level.
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Article Series: Can FFXIV: ARR create “A Genre Reborn�Follow
Many thanks for another long reply. You know, I tend to appreciate the time of other people as well, not just mine =)
Now, about your question: I think that even after playing 1-2 hours it becomes evident that "things get unlocked for me as I grow". The extent of this is not immediately evident, but there are two scenarios for "a new player" really:
1) They have joined because one or more friends convinced them to (this is the most likely scenario usually) or
2) They know noone, and I mean noone, playing the game personally and decided to get it out of being impressed with the name / box art on a shop, or what have you. That's less common.
However, this is something I will discuss in the future article of MOBA's and such, which is not far off (tomorrow). I'm afraid that most of today's teenagers have become somewhat broken with LOL and the like, and cannot easily appreciate any RPG, not just an MMORPG one.
For now, I just believe that some Q&A from friends where needed will convince scenario 1) players to stick around for a bit. After all, post-release, they get 30 days of game time, so it'd be somewhat stupid to drop the game in a couple of hours.
Now, about your question: I think that even after playing 1-2 hours it becomes evident that "things get unlocked for me as I grow". The extent of this is not immediately evident, but there are two scenarios for "a new player" really:
1) They have joined because one or more friends convinced them to (this is the most likely scenario usually) or
2) They know noone, and I mean noone, playing the game personally and decided to get it out of being impressed with the name / box art on a shop, or what have you. That's less common.
However, this is something I will discuss in the future article of MOBA's and such, which is not far off (tomorrow). I'm afraid that most of today's teenagers have become somewhat broken with LOL and the like, and cannot easily appreciate any RPG, not just an MMORPG one.
For now, I just believe that some Q&A from friends where needed will convince scenario 1) players to stick around for a bit. After all, post-release, they get 30 days of game time, so it'd be somewhat stupid to drop the game in a couple of hours.
Sovjohn wrote:
Also, (although I generally feel bad when responding twice in a row) now that two articles are online, I would appreciate some feedback on the writing style / feeling of them. If you find them tiring, boring, or have other problems with them, I can still resolve them in the coming articles =)
...In a week, I won't be able to say that! :D
...In a week, I won't be able to say that! :D
Regarding purely writing style, the articles feel well written, and you made sure to use the new paragraph lines more like a pause in breath instead of Every...Single...Line to avoid giant walls of text, so I like that. (I'm aware that the actual large clumps are really bullets in the original article.)
Thanks for the feedback. As previously stated, unfortunately adopting the articles format from standard BBcode of VBulletin to Zam's system would mean quite some additional time spent formatting them, so it's just sort of a compromise. Read here the crux of the content, but not really formatted to perfection, or visit the formatted article page instead.
I like Zam and all, but am not really fond of the forum system, since it feels quite "non-standard" to me. But oh well, can't have my pie and eat it too!
I like Zam and all, but am not really fond of the forum system, since it feels quite "non-standard" to me. But oh well, can't have my pie and eat it too!
I have maintained a rather unpopular opinion since Tanaka left. I liked his game, or at least the direction it was supposed to take. I am not saying it was without flaw or polish, the publics response to the game really says it all but he had courage to try something different. I liked the concept of the open class system and the level up by quality of kill rather than quantity. I liked the idea of cross class horizontal growth not just vertical. I know everyone was clamoring because there were no clear jobs but I liked that you could make a unique class by crossing any ability.
I always caveat that Yoshi knows his stuff. He has created a game that fits today's current standard and I think will bring SE some good publicity and income. He just lacks the vision to break the mold. I like ARR mostly, I was just more excited by Tanakas vision of XIV than Yoshi's. I desperately wanted to see any MMO break into new territory.
I always caveat that Yoshi knows his stuff. He has created a game that fits today's current standard and I think will bring SE some good publicity and income. He just lacks the vision to break the mold. I like ARR mostly, I was just more excited by Tanakas vision of XIV than Yoshi's. I desperately wanted to see any MMO break into new territory.
"The next time you have the urge to stab me in the back have the guts to do it to my face." - Malcolm Reynolds
From the very little I had seen in FFXIV: 1.0 (a few hours only, on release, nothing after it, not even when Yoshi-P took it over) I think it generally bit much more than it could chew.
Am I mistaken in this? Do you think that it was a rough diamond of sorts?
Am I mistaken in this? Do you think that it was a rough diamond of sorts?
Sovjohn wrote:
From the very little I had seen in FFXIV: 1.0 (a few hours only, on release, nothing after it, not even when Yoshi-P took it over) I think it generally bit much more than it could chew.
Am I mistaken in this? Do you think that it was a rough diamond of sorts?
Am I mistaken in this? Do you think that it was a rough diamond of sorts?
It was a diamond in the rough, 1.0 with a proper team could have been a wonderful game, if managed properly, Tanaka is known for having a great vision for video games, he is also known for his tunnel vision, he will ignore any feedback that contradicts his vision of the game, even if said feedback ends up making the game better overall. The game first and foremost had a steep requirement just to run, and it launched lacking the most basic MMO tools. If they had launched with what the genre considers the standards, it would have given 1.0 more room to operate and implement tanakas vision. IMO
Version 1.0 would have been fine if they had given themselves a little more time to listen to what people were saying.
But I think 1.0's failure was really good for the company as a whole, S-E's no longer this big secretive company, they're open communicators and in a sense, it's starting to be felt in their other projects as well.
But I think 1.0's failure was really good for the company as a whole, S-E's no longer this big secretive company, they're open communicators and in a sense, it's starting to be felt in their other projects as well.
kainsilv wrote:
I have maintained a rather unpopular opinion since Tanaka left. I liked his game, or at least the direction it was supposed to take. I am not saying it was without flaw or polish, the publics response to the game really says it all but he had courage to try something different. I liked the concept of the open class system and the level up by quality of kill rather than quantity. I liked the idea of cross class horizontal growth not just vertical. I know everyone was clamoring because there were no clear jobs but I liked that you could make a unique class by crossing any ability.
I always caveat that Yoshi knows his stuff. He has created a game that fits today's current standard and I think will bring SE some good publicity and income. He just lacks the vision to break the mold. I like ARR mostly, I was just more excited by Tanakas vision of XIV than Yoshi's. I desperately wanted to see any MMO break into new territory.
I always caveat that Yoshi knows his stuff. He has created a game that fits today's current standard and I think will bring SE some good publicity and income. He just lacks the vision to break the mold. I like ARR mostly, I was just more excited by Tanakas vision of XIV than Yoshi's. I desperately wanted to see any MMO break into new territory.
I'm gonna agree with you even though it don't matter now. Tanaka has left for a smaller company with more creative freedom but probably less global appeal. I wanted too see how the very first combat system in ARR would play like polished after feedback but they switched to that stamina system fast which I hated. I think jobs would have eventually made their way into ARR under Tanaka too just not at launch. I think he was shooting for an online FF tactics type of job system.
Yoshi is doing a fantastic job bringing FF up to the mmo standard for the core game. I don't think SE is gonna risk getting too wild to ensure they make what they lost back in this mmo and salvage their brand name in the mmo space. I do notice something I like about Yoshi but others might not agree. I'm getting the vibe that he will at some point bring metagames within the game. I'm really hoping for some magitek battles and for SE to make the airship battles, boat building, and group cooking/crafting come to fruition.
Edited, Jul 14th 2013 11:15pm by sandpark
Quote:
However, my worry lies with the casuals. As everyone knows, RPGs these days are becoming more action-based. This means physically dodging instead of relying on a RNG, and physically aiming your attacks and having a slew of abilities to change the pace of battle. While I know FFXIV has a lot to do, I fear having all those choices may bring a mediocre first impression to casuals, the battle system especially since it takes quite awhile to start really seeing the depth, because Action RPGs usually has a strong start to excite you and drives you to play. Veterans aren't affected by a slow start because we all know the real meat of the game is at max level (or they came from FFXI/Everquest), but Newcomers don't know that. If Newcomers aren't impressed by, say, the first two hours of gameplay, will they continue to play? Let alone getting to max level.
Sometimes it's the veterans that are a curse to their own games. I have always felt the endgame term a misnomer within MMOs, but the fact the sentiment that endgame is where the game begins and perpetuated by veterans is a problem. Too many game devs embrace this and you get a mediocre leveling experience, either in not teaching people how to play, level too fast/slow, and poor stories. And even come endgame, stories tend to become secondary to the gear treadmill. Worrying about the casuals should be done, however, as endgame can be where they hit a wall when the quests run out, the duty finder isn't suitable for progression any longer, and their own casual friends are hard to organize with all their varied schedules/jobs/skills/gear level. When you find yourself spinning your wheels here seemingly getting nowhere, then that's when people will be tempted to quit. Basically, the casuals need their "endgame" too, and not to be treated as second-class players in the process. Unfortunately, it's too common for he MMO vets to demand that segregation.
As for the topic on GW2 events relative to FATEs, story integration, and all that jazz, all I can say is I'm seeing a bit of a selective memory with a potential dash of fanboyism. I seem to recall being a lowbie in Queensdale just to have spiders randomly attack an orchard. No real plot here. Just spiders attacking and no real consequence for doing nothing. "But that's just a lowbie area!" Well, if someone's willing to let that slide for GW2, it'd be a bit hypocritical to not allow it for XIV's early FATEs. As well, it's probably a bit presumptuous to assume player activity holds no influence in their spawning or eventual progression in (promised) tiered scenarios. I'd also say the consequences in GW2 get oversold. Oh no, a WP is inaccessible, a gate is put up, or some centaurs spawn in an area they normally didn't. These "changes" to Tyria were fleeting, and I'd also say Anet's fetish for temporary content/events is a bad thing. For all the talk of story integration, I never really felt like a hero. Even the main scenario's climax is underwhelming since, last I checked, Orr is still an undead-infested wasteland. Heck, for as "cool" as the three open-world dragon fights are, I can't really any reason for why they happen. They're seriously just overgrown spiders that happen to fit into their environmentally flavored orchard every so many hours. So, yeah, let's hold off on damning XIV's events until we see how the stuff with Odin and other homages pans out. Hell, there was even one that parroted XI's beseiged with the quiqrns (I always butcher that race name) invading a town and kidnapping people we'll have to subsequently rescue.
To perhaps tie these two paragraphs together, I certainly hope casual endgame is more than just FATE chasing. I did that in Rift with its zone events. Sometimes you suffered with no events going on (also a problem in GW2). The rewards were also subpar for the time and effort. Someone leveling another class or craft will only go so far. But if you can keep the casual player engaged and feeling special in their own way, they'll be more likely to stick around. Though, vets also seem to interpret that as wanting handouts or other disparaging commentary. Ultimately, I'm hoping for a dev brave enough to break that "endgame" cycle of Raid or GTFO.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
You know I played XI off and on for nearly a decade. It took me 3 years to reach cap on my first job. You know what...? I was okay with it. The journey was just as much fun as the destination. I worked through parts of CoP and Zilart along the way participating long before I capped. The story was interesting enough I wanted to know more. The future of MMOs in my opinion, will be more about compelling story than battle mechanics or anything else. Involve people in telling a story and they will stick around.
"The next time you have the urge to stab me in the back have the guts to do it to my face." - Malcolm Reynolds
Hello all,
With the Beta Phase 3 now over, today's article due to be posted in a few hours will be talking a bit about the business aspects of MMORPGs today. The article will not flame, however.
If you feel that posting one article per day is too fast for you to keep up with the content, I can easily modify this and make it one article per two or three days, so feedback is always welcome.
-John
With the Beta Phase 3 now over, today's article due to be posted in a few hours will be talking a bit about the business aspects of MMORPGs today. The article will not flame, however.
If you feel that posting one article per day is too fast for you to keep up with the content, I can easily modify this and make it one article per two or three days, so feedback is always welcome.
-John
kainsilv wrote:
You know I played XI off and on for nearly a decade. It took me 3 years to reach cap on my first job. You know what...? I was okay with it. The journey was just as much fun as the destination. I worked through parts of CoP and Zilart along the way participating long before I capped. The story was interesting enough I wanted to know more. The future of MMOs in my opinion, will be more about compelling story than battle mechanics or anything else. Involve people in telling a story and they will stick around.
I do see big value in well told story. But this is not what holds an mmo together or TOR would still be P2P. A story in an mmo cannot match the number of hours you will put into the game. The preceding comments are not meant to imply that ARR has these qualities. If the combat sucks, the crafting sucks, the sidequest suck, the endgame sucks, the world design sucks, laggy menus, laggy play, no compelling job system, and redundant menus are all present. You could write the greatest story ever told and you might hold a few, but the rest will leave in droves.
FFXI had a great story in the main and sidequest, not just the main scenario where you won't be spending too much time. It was just so spread out and not clearly accessible which is partly why FFXI never got a larger playerbase than it did..But it's job system, renkei system, and other complexities is where most of a gamers time was spent. They were unique and deep, otherwise FFXI would have been the flat-out everquest copy with better story.
@Seriha
I do not want Fates as the only piece meal in casual endgame either. I would like to see some content like FFXI abyssea, but without that gear relegating all other gear before it almost worthless. Content for low man or solo within the big dungeons like Crystal Tower, but still having that huge raid content for big groups.
There is going to be more casual endgame in ARR for sure with PvP coming down the pipeline. I hope it doesn't end there.
I do not want Fates as the only piece meal in casual endgame either. I would like to see some content like FFXI abyssea, but without that gear relegating all other gear before it almost worthless. Content for low man or solo within the big dungeons like Crystal Tower, but still having that huge raid content for big groups.
There is going to be more casual endgame in ARR for sure with PvP coming down the pipeline. I hope it doesn't end there.
I'd be hesitant to call PvP casual. If anything, it can get pretty cut-throat and demoralizing for those who simply can't put as much into it if gear plays a major role in PvP effectiveness. Unfortunately, I don't think you're going to see the sidegrade model you crave in gear progression. Typically the biggest problem with new stuff invalidating the old is how quickly one can acquire the new stuff with a dash of how long the old took. People are going to feel jaded if it took 3+ months to get something, only for it to be second-rate a week later. Things like that are why I say no item in an MMO should really take more than a month to get with decent effort. Multiply this against job/class numbers on a single character and SE should really be encouraging people to play more than one (helps pad the duty finder when leveling, encourages the low/mid-range economy, helps early zones not seem so empty), instead of focusing so heavily on an individual class. Yet, you'll still have those who will refuse to branch out for whatever reason. As is, you'll get some gear overlap between jobs that share specific stats, but simply multiplying all those equipment slot needs can be perceived as a phenomenal investment if you don't half-*** it.
I'm probably going to be one of those people who levels all jobs eventually. I did it in XI with jobs and crafting. It got a lot easier to do when Campaign rolled around (granted I was one of those evil song-spammers while it was doable :P), and got easier from there with Abyssea and GoV/FoV. This helped when my LS needed some random job for whatever, though it did run the risk of me seeming lootwhoreish because casual progression was limited. I tried to set aside some personal priorities and in general, if I saw something not needed, usually asked if I could have it instead of outright taking. Some people still resented that and I have no doubt it contributed to the fallout I had with some people before I chose to leave XI, but it's never like I deliberately wanted to ***** others As such, I am always welcoming of things I can do on my own, or at least with others without super-RNGness while they get their own fair shake. I doubt I'll ever do 10+ man content reliably anymore. It's not because I lack skill/knowledge of things I play or hate people and can't socialize. I just refuse to schedule my life around a game, have grown intolerant of helping people I dislike (due to XI), and realize such things are rarely PUG-friendly. If SE can prove me wrong there, great, but I'd also hate to have a chance to see a certain piece of content time-wise, but to be refused because my gear isn't perfect. That mentality is hurting XI pretty hard right now with people only wanting people with Delve items to do Delve. Missing the introduction of any kind of content unfortunately makes it harder for anyone to do later, thus prudent methods of catching up are required. A hit to the raider's ego, maybe, but many there are too concerned with what people they'll never interact with are doing.
I'm probably going to be one of those people who levels all jobs eventually. I did it in XI with jobs and crafting. It got a lot easier to do when Campaign rolled around (granted I was one of those evil song-spammers while it was doable :P), and got easier from there with Abyssea and GoV/FoV. This helped when my LS needed some random job for whatever, though it did run the risk of me seeming lootwhoreish because casual progression was limited. I tried to set aside some personal priorities and in general, if I saw something not needed, usually asked if I could have it instead of outright taking. Some people still resented that and I have no doubt it contributed to the fallout I had with some people before I chose to leave XI, but it's never like I deliberately wanted to ***** others As such, I am always welcoming of things I can do on my own, or at least with others without super-RNGness while they get their own fair shake. I doubt I'll ever do 10+ man content reliably anymore. It's not because I lack skill/knowledge of things I play or hate people and can't socialize. I just refuse to schedule my life around a game, have grown intolerant of helping people I dislike (due to XI), and realize such things are rarely PUG-friendly. If SE can prove me wrong there, great, but I'd also hate to have a chance to see a certain piece of content time-wise, but to be refused because my gear isn't perfect. That mentality is hurting XI pretty hard right now with people only wanting people with Delve items to do Delve. Missing the introduction of any kind of content unfortunately makes it harder for anyone to do later, thus prudent methods of catching up are required. A hit to the raider's ego, maybe, but many there are too concerned with what people they'll never interact with are doing.
Violence good. Sexy bad. Yay America.
Not that anyone will lose their sleep over this, but I felt the need to write it:
Some of the described topics (such as today's) felt too light on detail, too silly to post as an article with their initial intended word count, so I am reneging somewhat on the "smaller, faster articles", which meant broadly "1,000-1,200 words per piece max" and drifting towards good ol' 2,000 words again. Which won't help my endeavored "rapid updates week".
*Sigh*.
I know, first world problems and all.
I will probably have this particular article posted technically on Tuesday, because its topics are among my favorite ones.
Edit: The final article will be actually split, the second part discussing MOBA's will come on its own in an extra slot on Saturday, July 20th.
Edited, Jul 15th 2013 7:25pm by Sovjohn
Some of the described topics (such as today's) felt too light on detail, too silly to post as an article with their initial intended word count, so I am reneging somewhat on the "smaller, faster articles", which meant broadly "1,000-1,200 words per piece max" and drifting towards good ol' 2,000 words again. Which won't help my endeavored "rapid updates week".
*Sigh*.
I know, first world problems and all.
I will probably have this particular article posted technically on Tuesday, because its topics are among my favorite ones.
Edit: The final article will be actually split, the second part discussing MOBA's will come on its own in an extra slot on Saturday, July 20th.
Edited, Jul 15th 2013 7:25pm by Sovjohn
Article 3 is up! Tuesday will have two articles, the second one is due to come in a couple of hours. Enjoy the ride!
However, the first one is among the large one of the series, and tackles only one topic, so it should keep you happy until the next one, I hope.
However, the first one is among the large one of the series, and tackles only one topic, so it should keep you happy until the next one, I hope.
I'm curious if you read this article where Yoshida discusses the subscription based model:
There are many different types of MMOs. There are two big types or groups that we see. You have one group with games like your Rift or your Star Wars, which are very large-scale MMOs with established IP. Then you have your smaller MMOs, which are maybe new IPs that don’t need as big a user base to be successful. So we can start off with the big group, the large-scale MMO group, with your Rift, your Star Wars, your Guild Wars, your Age of Conan and The Lord of the Rings. These games all started out on a subscription model, or were planning for a subscription model when they were in development. Then, partway through, they switched to free-to-play.
Then again, you have games like Rift and Star Wars. Even though people have been saying that yes, there is this change in the market, everything’s moving to free-to-play, they still – up until recently – were developing a system that would be subscription-based. Even though everyone is saying the industry is going free-to-play, they still were developing these huge games with subscriptions in mind. Again, we’re not saying that one is better than the other, that free-to-play is better than subscription or subscription is better than free-to-play. But for a large game on that scale, what’s most important – more important than making a lot of money – is making a stable income, a stable amount of money over a long period of time. And so to develop a large-scale MMO like this, you need to spend a lot of time with a lot of resources and a lot of staff to make this game.
To do that, you need a lot of money, and to get a lot of money to do that, you usually need investors to invest in your game. Because you’ve spent a lot of money on getting this game ready and borrowed a lot of money from these investors, when you release the game, the investors expect to see returns. If your game gets a lot of users and a lot of subscriptions right away, your investors will be happy and you can pay them. But what happens if you don’t hit that number right away? You have a bunch of staff members waiting to get paid. You have a bunch of investors waiting to get paid. You have a bunch of contents that needs to get made because you have to have updates, but you can’t do it because you don’t have enough money, because you didn’t hit that number you were aiming for. And so what do you have to do? One option to get instant money is free-to-play, or selling these items. To get that money so you can pay off your staff, pay off your investors, and start making new content, switching to free-to-play, selling items, and using that money is one way to do it.
So why didn’t Rift or EA with Star Wars do this from the beginning? Why didn’t they start with free-to-play? There’s a reason behind that. With free-to-play, because you’re selling these items, you’ll have months where you sell a bunch of stuff and you make a lot of money in that one month. But it’s all about what happens during that month. Next month, the person who maybe bought $100 worth of items in the last month could purchase nothing at all. You don’t know what you’re going to be getting, and because you don’t know what you’re going to be getting, you can’t plan ahead. You don’t know how much money is coming in. If you can’t plan ahead, then you can’t keep staff, because you don’t know if you’ll have enough money to pay the staff next month.
With a subscription base, if you get maybe 400,000 members, you know that you’re going to have the money from that monthly subscription for the next month. You also know that you’re going to have 400,000 this month, and it’s not going to go down to 200,000 users next month. That type of jump really doesn’t happen with a subscription model. So you know that you’re going to have a steady income. Because you have a steady income, you can plan ahead further. You can make sure you have staff members to create that new content. By creating new content, you’re making the players happy. If they know this game is going to keep creating new content, they’ll continue to pay their monthly subscription fees. So rather than going for the huge $100-million-a-month hit that you might get with the free-to-play model, having that steady income allows us to provide a better product to the players.
Now, you have Blizzard and you have Square Enix. We’re the only two companies in the industry, basically, that are making MMOs with our own money. That gives us an advantage, because where other companies have to get money from investors and have to pay that back, we don’t have a lot of time to build slowly and be able to pay that back. Investors want their returns right away. With Square Enix and Blizzard, because we’re putting our own money into it, we don’t have those investors to worry about, and that means we can release something and maybe take a little bit of a hit at the beginning, but as long as we’re increasing the amount of people we have, then we’ll get that money and make the players happy. We’ll get into that cycle I talked about before, where we’re creating good content and have that steady income to keep the cycle going.
With version 1.0, even though we call it a failure, we still had a user base. During the time that we were developing this game, 2.0, we were able to increase the amount of subscribers threefold as well. Again, it takes time. It takes showing the users that we’re really into this and giving them that new content. But we’re able to see a rise there. That’s what we’re looking for in this. Again, we’re not saying—The market didn’t change. It’s that there are two different types of models. Choosing the model that’s right for your product and being successful with that is what’s important. We believe that the bigger the game, the larger the scale of the MMO, it’s going to be better for the game if it’s on a subscription model.
That’s why you see a lot of companies that chose the subscription model, that wanted to do what we were doing, but were forced to free-to-play. They didn’t go to free-to-play by choice, because if that was the case, they would have gone free-to-play at the beginning. They’d develop it for free-to-play, not full subscription, instead of being forced to go free-to-play. We hear a lot of people saying, “Star Wars is free-to-play now, it’s great!†But then you ask them if they’re playing free-to-play Star Wars and they say, “No, not really playing it.†Everyone talks about how great it is that it went free-to-play, but then you ask around and really, there aren’t that many people who are playing it since it’s gone free-to-play. If you spend all that money on a game ,release it, and it’s filled with bugs and you don’t have enough time to do your updates, people will leave. Players need that new content. Not being able to provide it is fatal. If they were able to produce as much content as players wanted, then people would have stayed there. We don’t really believe it’s a problem with the business model. It’s how that’s handled.
Naoki Yoshida wrote:
There are many different types of MMOs. There are two big types or groups that we see. You have one group with games like your Rift or your Star Wars, which are very large-scale MMOs with established IP. Then you have your smaller MMOs, which are maybe new IPs that don’t need as big a user base to be successful. So we can start off with the big group, the large-scale MMO group, with your Rift, your Star Wars, your Guild Wars, your Age of Conan and The Lord of the Rings. These games all started out on a subscription model, or were planning for a subscription model when they were in development. Then, partway through, they switched to free-to-play.
Then again, you have games like Rift and Star Wars. Even though people have been saying that yes, there is this change in the market, everything’s moving to free-to-play, they still – up until recently – were developing a system that would be subscription-based. Even though everyone is saying the industry is going free-to-play, they still were developing these huge games with subscriptions in mind. Again, we’re not saying that one is better than the other, that free-to-play is better than subscription or subscription is better than free-to-play. But for a large game on that scale, what’s most important – more important than making a lot of money – is making a stable income, a stable amount of money over a long period of time. And so to develop a large-scale MMO like this, you need to spend a lot of time with a lot of resources and a lot of staff to make this game.
To do that, you need a lot of money, and to get a lot of money to do that, you usually need investors to invest in your game. Because you’ve spent a lot of money on getting this game ready and borrowed a lot of money from these investors, when you release the game, the investors expect to see returns. If your game gets a lot of users and a lot of subscriptions right away, your investors will be happy and you can pay them. But what happens if you don’t hit that number right away? You have a bunch of staff members waiting to get paid. You have a bunch of investors waiting to get paid. You have a bunch of contents that needs to get made because you have to have updates, but you can’t do it because you don’t have enough money, because you didn’t hit that number you were aiming for. And so what do you have to do? One option to get instant money is free-to-play, or selling these items. To get that money so you can pay off your staff, pay off your investors, and start making new content, switching to free-to-play, selling items, and using that money is one way to do it.
So why didn’t Rift or EA with Star Wars do this from the beginning? Why didn’t they start with free-to-play? There’s a reason behind that. With free-to-play, because you’re selling these items, you’ll have months where you sell a bunch of stuff and you make a lot of money in that one month. But it’s all about what happens during that month. Next month, the person who maybe bought $100 worth of items in the last month could purchase nothing at all. You don’t know what you’re going to be getting, and because you don’t know what you’re going to be getting, you can’t plan ahead. You don’t know how much money is coming in. If you can’t plan ahead, then you can’t keep staff, because you don’t know if you’ll have enough money to pay the staff next month.
With a subscription base, if you get maybe 400,000 members, you know that you’re going to have the money from that monthly subscription for the next month. You also know that you’re going to have 400,000 this month, and it’s not going to go down to 200,000 users next month. That type of jump really doesn’t happen with a subscription model. So you know that you’re going to have a steady income. Because you have a steady income, you can plan ahead further. You can make sure you have staff members to create that new content. By creating new content, you’re making the players happy. If they know this game is going to keep creating new content, they’ll continue to pay their monthly subscription fees. So rather than going for the huge $100-million-a-month hit that you might get with the free-to-play model, having that steady income allows us to provide a better product to the players.
Now, you have Blizzard and you have Square Enix. We’re the only two companies in the industry, basically, that are making MMOs with our own money. That gives us an advantage, because where other companies have to get money from investors and have to pay that back, we don’t have a lot of time to build slowly and be able to pay that back. Investors want their returns right away. With Square Enix and Blizzard, because we’re putting our own money into it, we don’t have those investors to worry about, and that means we can release something and maybe take a little bit of a hit at the beginning, but as long as we’re increasing the amount of people we have, then we’ll get that money and make the players happy. We’ll get into that cycle I talked about before, where we’re creating good content and have that steady income to keep the cycle going.
With version 1.0, even though we call it a failure, we still had a user base. During the time that we were developing this game, 2.0, we were able to increase the amount of subscribers threefold as well. Again, it takes time. It takes showing the users that we’re really into this and giving them that new content. But we’re able to see a rise there. That’s what we’re looking for in this. Again, we’re not saying—The market didn’t change. It’s that there are two different types of models. Choosing the model that’s right for your product and being successful with that is what’s important. We believe that the bigger the game, the larger the scale of the MMO, it’s going to be better for the game if it’s on a subscription model.
That’s why you see a lot of companies that chose the subscription model, that wanted to do what we were doing, but were forced to free-to-play. They didn’t go to free-to-play by choice, because if that was the case, they would have gone free-to-play at the beginning. They’d develop it for free-to-play, not full subscription, instead of being forced to go free-to-play. We hear a lot of people saying, “Star Wars is free-to-play now, it’s great!†But then you ask them if they’re playing free-to-play Star Wars and they say, “No, not really playing it.†Everyone talks about how great it is that it went free-to-play, but then you ask around and really, there aren’t that many people who are playing it since it’s gone free-to-play. If you spend all that money on a game ,release it, and it’s filled with bugs and you don’t have enough time to do your updates, people will leave. Players need that new content. Not being able to provide it is fatal. If they were able to produce as much content as players wanted, then people would have stayed there. We don’t really believe it’s a problem with the business model. It’s how that’s handled.
I absolutely did. I thought to reference it in the article, but its referenced indirectly in the epilogue, mostly.
If they stick to what's said in this article, they're walking a good path. That's the crux of things.
If they stick to what's said in this article, they're walking a good path. That's the crux of things.
Agreed. Their reasoning is exactly what I would expect. I'm really hopeful that they will succeed!
I can say for sure that there are a handful of players who played 1.0 right up to the end, and would have kept playing. These are friends of mine and they had played all the available content then, and would have just kept playing it. Now my dedicated friends will have a bunch of new classes to try out while SE focuses on the first expansion.
I have a few questions:
Did they actually add in any additional level 50 content that will be available at release?
Have all of the dungeons available in 1.0 been recreated for ARR?
Are there new level 45-50 items available from a variety of the available content?
We will find out soon.
I can say for sure that there are a handful of players who played 1.0 right up to the end, and would have kept playing. These are friends of mine and they had played all the available content then, and would have just kept playing it. Now my dedicated friends will have a bunch of new classes to try out while SE focuses on the first expansion.
I have a few questions:
Did they actually add in any additional level 50 content that will be available at release?
Have all of the dungeons available in 1.0 been recreated for ARR?
Are there new level 45-50 items available from a variety of the available content?
We will find out soon.
To be honest I read about SWTOR (remember, I paid for this game in retail AND subscribed for a few months. Sigh.) in the article of MMORPG.com and was even more disappointed.
It's not expensive, much (especially if subscribers get it for $10), but they call a "digital expansion pack" something that provides a few mere hours of gameplay? If the article writer states that casual players may be done with it in 2 weeks, an average MMO player will need, what, 2-3 days then?
And what's worse - They don't release these every couple of months! Not even close...
Yeah, I foresee many millions of players sticking around, surely - not! </sarcasm>
It's not expensive, much (especially if subscribers get it for $10), but they call a "digital expansion pack" something that provides a few mere hours of gameplay? If the article writer states that casual players may be done with it in 2 weeks, an average MMO player will need, what, 2-3 days then?
And what's worse - They don't release these every couple of months! Not even close...
Yeah, I foresee many millions of players sticking around, surely - not! </sarcasm>
You people claiming GW2s Dynamic Events were this big great thing are silly. They were ridiculously easy to complete, from the little farm raids to the giant dragon fights, and most of them had no story to them. You just spam your attacks and run around to dodge stuff and you'll just about always win unless they decide to make the boss kill you randomly in one hit. GW2 was fun for a couple months at best.
And I said it once and I'll say it again, the voice acting in SWOTOR completely sucked, from the corny dialogue, badly done lip movements and continuous and repetitive body motions used by the characters when the talk (Character one says something, moves arm up and down in expression, character two says something, moves arms up and down, character one says something, moves arms up and down, repeat repeat.).
And for those who want to do this Rift/Wow/Gw2 being better arguement, I thought all those games sucked and FFXI rocked, so it doesnt matter at all to me. XIV will be better even if it does worse than XI because I like Final Fantasy and I like the online aspect of the game. I dont care if Wow has this or GW2 has that, I played em and I think they overall sucked other than that first month or two where everything is new and seems interesting at first.
And I said it once and I'll say it again, the voice acting in SWOTOR completely sucked, from the corny dialogue, badly done lip movements and continuous and repetitive body motions used by the characters when the talk (Character one says something, moves arm up and down in expression, character two says something, moves arms up and down, character one says something, moves arms up and down, repeat repeat.).
And for those who want to do this Rift/Wow/Gw2 being better arguement, I thought all those games sucked and FFXI rocked, so it doesnt matter at all to me. XIV will be better even if it does worse than XI because I like Final Fantasy and I like the online aspect of the game. I dont care if Wow has this or GW2 has that, I played em and I think they overall sucked other than that first month or two where everything is new and seems interesting at first.
*Drumroll*
Yes, it's done, along with Monday's article which was delayed due to its sheer size, now Tuesday's article is also up, bringing the article series back to speed, and a lighter article to dive into after Monday's extended one.
Next content will come tomorrow.
I hope you enjoy Monday's and Tuesday's articles! Thanks for the time spent reading them, and such!
Yes, it's done, along with Monday's article which was delayed due to its sheer size, now Tuesday's article is also up, bringing the article series back to speed, and a lighter article to dive into after Monday's extended one.
Next content will come tomorrow.
I hope you enjoy Monday's and Tuesday's articles! Thanks for the time spent reading them, and such!
aadrenry wrote:
You people claiming GW2s Dynamic Events were this big great thing are silly. They were ridiculously easy to complete, from the little farm raids to the giant dragon fights, and most of them had no story to them. You just spam your attacks and run around to dodge stuff and you'll just about always win unless they decide to make the boss kill you randomly in one hit. GW2 was fun for a couple months at best.
The Dynamic Events were touted as being awesome for one thing: Streamlining. You didn't have to talk to people and spam through a text-well to get in on a quest. You just did it. GW2 was the first to do this, which is why everyone hyped it up so much. Regardless of them being easy or not, it skipped through the tedium and got you right in on the action.
HeroMystic wrote:
aadrenry wrote:
You people claiming GW2s Dynamic Events were this big great thing are silly. They were ridiculously easy to complete, from the little farm raids to the giant dragon fights, and most of them had no story to them. You just spam your attacks and run around to dodge stuff and you'll just about always win unless they decide to make the boss kill you randomly in one hit. GW2 was fun for a couple months at best.
The Dynamic Events were touted as being awesome for one thing: Streamlining. You didn't have to talk to people and spam through a text-well to get in on a quest. You just did it. GW2 was the first to do this, which is why everyone hyped it up so much. Regardless of them being easy or not, it skipped through the tedium and got you right in on the action.
Yes which is why they word it as a living story. Emergent gameplay. You don't read about lore that you don't interact with in dynamic events. You don't read about story much about what's happening in the world. Yes the effect you cause is not permanent but it does alter real in game things for a bit. Events cascade and branch into other events. You are not reading or watching the news about tragedies happening across the world. If you're in the area it happens right in front of your face first hand.
Quest running back and forth is old school, quest hubs allow you to grab a bunch at one time that get completed in that particular area versus back tracking. I'm probably in the minority here but I hate both those options when the scale, difficulty, and how much you do solo feels monotonous. Because they usually go with the lowest common denominator for breadth and variety of how quests can be done.
The difficulty has nothing to do with that.
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