Rogue/Ninja ConfirmedFollow

Among all of the arguments of whether or not Ninjas and Thieves are 'similar enough' we're ignoring a major point here:

No one has even tried out Rouge/Ninja yet.

While there are concerns about players who don't want a magic caster as a scout class, there's no real clarification on just how 'ninjitsu' reliant ninjas actually are. At this point, I think dagger lovers are jumping the gun. (Cause, you know, Rouge/Ninja did manage to jump in before Musketeer, right? Ok, I know. I'm fired...)

All I am going to really get into on this matter is: Give Ninja a shot. If you don't like it, you don't like it. But nothing really should prevent you from sampling the class/job, really. Thayos made a fairly strong point earlier in a different thread: We seem to be trying really hard to pigeonhole our experiences into preset expectations with little to no flexibility. That sort of habit really does make it hard to enjoy much of anything.

One could argue that an assassin class is also the same as THF and NIN classes. I don't know about you, but I play all of my stealthy characters in all rpg's mostly the same way. A rouge character you create in game like Skyrim can be tweaked with all stealing and stealth, but most people myself included give them a few spells and other ninja traits. As for the Final Fantasy lore itself, NIN and THF have always been tethered together in some way. Take Locke and Shadow from FF6. Locke has a Steal/Mug move, but basically they're the same. Both have dual wield and use daggers/small swords. Because there is such a minor difference between the two classes, it just makes practical sense to merge the two instead of making two separate classes/jobs that don't have enough unique traits to warrant a release.



That's true and depending on what the player expects, this could be bad or good. I think that regardless of how the class/job works, I don't see how SE would ignore the formula of class abilities to lv30 before unlocking said job. This basically means the NIN job would theoretically be mostly Rouge in the first place. I don't see how 5 abilities(lv30, 35, 40, 35, and 50) will make NIN so radically different that the point most of us are making doesn't stand. That THF and NIN are basically the same. ARC was the one exception and you can choose to be a healer or DPS.

Edited, Jun 24th 2014 4:05pm by ShadowedgeFFXI

I would have said that, but I've seen plenty of others saying the same exact thing as me.

You pretending like I'm the only one who wants a physical Thief like Zidane, Locke, etc. with no eastern influences or ninjutsu doesn't make it true. I've seen plenty of others say the same thing.

Not natively they don't. Genji Gloves, available to all characters except Umaro. Final Fantasy 6 is a pretty bad choice to try to argue job lore with.

I can't say exactly how it should be done but I'm just the customer. I would hope the people behind making the game/getting paid have enough creativity and expertise in game making that they can make our favorite jobs happen, even if your first thought is that it wouldn't work/it would be too similar to x.

Thief could work, Red could work, Beastmaster could work, Blue Mage could work, it's just a matter of adjusting them to fit into FFXIV -- hopefully, without ditching the job concept entirely such as with Bard or Scholar.

Edited, Jun 24th 2014 5:18pm by lass5

It's spelled Rogue dammit

LMAO... damn you Hyrist, you seriously hurt my side I was laughing so hard here. LOL

Too much like Conjurer?

How many Red Mages have you seen running around wielding a twig with little flowers on it? How many Conjurers do you see running around in a red suit wielding a rapier? In fact, how many Conjurers do you see at all? Oh right none, since it's a class that has absolutely no use past level 30. This will be the same case with "Rogue". Classes cannot be used in any argument in this debate. We are ******** that there is not a Thief job. Conjurer is nothing more than a quick journey to White Mage, at which point you are once again absolutely nothing like a Red Mage.

CNJ = Tree-hugger that talks to the elementals.
RDM = sword & magic hybrid that wears a pimp hat.
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That aside, mechanically you'd need to define a RDM, and chances are with the way FFXIV's classes and jobs function, you'd need to redefine what RDM is much like how SCH was redefined to be a healer. I'd place less emphasis on the jack-of-all-trades thing, since that wouldn't work in a role-based trinity MMO. I'd also emphasize more on the sword + magic mix since it makes sense and we're overdue for a RDM that isn't a disservice to the job's concept. In fact, I even wrote a suggestion for it some time ago.

The key difference here is the developers vision versus your own.

Do you want a game that bows and bends to every customers whim or do you want one with a vision?

Personally, I prefer game devs who know what they want from their game, and have the balls to stand behind their vision. They say Thief doesn't work, so be it. You can play XI, WoW, Aion, LoTR, SWTOR, and countless other games to get your "melee styled thief purist class" rocks off.

Posts like this reek of ego. Hell, 90% of suggestion posts do. People think they know better than the devs, whine on a message board. Then they make games like Project Spark and LittleBigPlanet, give people the tools, and everyone makes garbage levels and games, because game development is harder than complaining.


Edited, Jun 26th 2014 12:54pm by Louiscool

If they say that's what a dark knight is in this game... then that's what a dark knight is in this game.

I'll give you another example... how many FF games that actually contained the scholar job (not many) had it as a pet class? Zero? Sounds right. So why is that ok? In FFXI, SCH was an adaptable mage that could be either offensive or defensive and switch more or less at will. SCH in XIV is nothing like that... yet it's accepted. Why no hue and cry over that one?



Thousands of us who yelled at SE about 1.0 would like to disagree with you here. And if they release NIN and it's a steaming pile of chocobo droppings, we'll do the same thing and tell them so.

Edited, Jun 26th 2014 1:05pm by Callinon

That's a weird argument to make when everyone has sat back and accepted the dev's decision to keep White Magic, mystical Squirrels and Bees, and a Reverse Item ability off Ranger.

to be fair, the fairy pet makes sense and feels like it could have always been that way. Also, SCH is still very adaptable. Their DPS is actually very good. If a SCH isn't switching between cleric stance to DPS and heal respectively, they are doing it wrong. (even my static turn 9 SCH throws DoT's on the boss when he gets a chance and that fight is very heavy on curing and shield buffs).

Also in the case of dark knight, People seem to be forgetting that in FF4 Cecil used a sword and shield as a DRK. I think everyone is just going with FFXI's version of a DRK in stating that they have to use a great sword or scythe.

As for THF... anything can be done if the devs wanted too. There is no reason they couldn't create new abilities to fit into FFXIV. No we don't need trick attack, steal or mug. However like they did with SCH, they could give them something else instead. Maybe THF could steal boss buffs and put them on the player. or vice versa. Personally I don't mind what they do with THF. Maybe in the future they will change their mind about that class. Anything is possible.