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#227 Jun 26 2014 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
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to be fair, the fairy pet makes sense and feels like it could have always been that way.


But that's not fair because it hasn't always been that way. There's no previous example of a scholar having a fairy tag-along. Meanwhile there ARE previous examples of thieves and ninjas being the same character and acting in similar ways. My point is that changes happen all the time, but people are latching onto this one as though SE's said that the oceans will, from now on, be made of raspberry jam and contain flying shark monsters that shoot bees from their gills.

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I think everyone is just going with FFXI's version of a DRK in stating that they have to use a great sword or scythe.


Absolutely agree. There's quite a lot of "it was this way in FFXI" going on here for no rational reason at all since this is not FFXI.
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#228 Jun 26 2014 at 6:51 PM Rating: Good
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Somehow I like what they did with Scholar more than what they did with Bard.

Louiscool wrote:
Pretty much. It's more like "stop with the knee-jerk reaction on every tidbit of news you hear and wait to play it."

When they said archer was going to be a bard, I freaked out. I was Archer4Life. Now I'm gonna play songs and ****!? **** NO. I'm still a bard, playing since 1.0. It's not an archer, it's not a bard, its hardly like anything in any FF game.

If I didn't like it I could go play literally any other game based in DnD lore.

When Summoner came out I had faith, then didn't enjoy the mechanics. Guess what I did? I stopped playing Summoner. I didn't melt, I didn't die, no one came to my house and slapped me in the face for not liking something.

What I didn't do was grab a pitchfork and take to the forums trying to make the developers change it to something I wanted.

Now a weird Thf/Ninja hybrid is coming. What will I do? I will sit here, waiting to try it and see if I like it. It's quite possible I won't and other people will, but I'm not going to tell those people they are wrong for liking the original take that the devs have on these classic jobs.


Your attitude is pretty unique though, the whole "take what you get and be grateful". People pay for this, I do think they're entitled to speak up.

I think with the original game I feel that way - let the creators do what they're going to do, but once you've got subscribers and people who have invested so much time, the game starts to belong to the subscribers at some point.

Not to say they need to always add exactly what the subscribers are asking for, content wise - but additions/changes shouldn't make people scratch their heads

For me, I'm going to try Ninja, but I guess what got me kind of ticked was the "Thief wouldn't work in FFXIV" bit. It's really a lot of baloney and I wish they'd stop saying stuff like that to cover their butt.

Edited, Jun 26th 2014 9:02pm by lass5
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#229 Jun 26 2014 at 7:34 PM Rating: Good
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lass5 wrote:
Your attitude is pretty unique though, the whole "take what you get and be grateful". People pay for this, I do think they're entitled to speak up.


I'm pretty sure Louis just finished clarifying that wasn't his intention. He's certainly complained about a great many things he doesn't like about the game on these forums so I doubt he'd be that hypocritical.

FF4 didn't have any Thieves in it, but it still ranks as a top 5 FF game among aficionados. Thieves don't HAVE to be in the game to make this a Final Fantasy title (no Cid or no chocobos, on the other hand, and we'd have a 1.0 kind of problem...), and no one is saying they will NEVER be introduced at some point. Honestly, I'd love to see more sneaky, stealthy roles added, so I'm glad they've at least taken the first step, and hopefully it will act as the framework to make even better stealthy jobs in the future.

That said, I happen to agree with Louis that the devs do see the bigger picture and the balance issues they will have to face. If they feel it's not the time to add thieves right now, then they probably have an educated reason or two to feel that way. And if they do add it later, it will probably benefit from the experiences of the Rogue/Ninja roles they're adding now (e.g. in FFXI, Blue Mage was made better because it benefited from the problems Red Mages had in a melee context).
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#230 Jun 27 2014 at 1:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Transmigration wrote:


Too much like Conjurer?

How many Red Mages have you seen running around wielding a twig with little flowers on it? How many Conjurers do you see running around in a red suit wielding a rapier? In fact, how many Conjurers do you see at all? Oh right none, since it's a class that has absolutely no use past level 30. This will be the same case with "Rogue". Classes cannot be used in any argument in this debate. We are ******** that there is not a Thief job. Conjurer is nothing more than a quick journey to White Mage, at which point you are once again absolutely nothing like a Red Mage.


I was referring to the "Pink Mage" class we have in FFXI now. RDM is no longer the jack of traits, it's simply a gimpy healer with some nuking power. That does sound like WHM(not CNJ) with their healing and Holy/Stone/Aero Dot. I wasn't referencing the RDM from old that wields a sword and wears leather armor. So yes, RDM is already in 14 if you make the comparisons from XI. RDM hasn't meleed in a party since 2004 other than the bad RDM's or for lawls.
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#231 Jun 27 2014 at 5:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
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to be fair, the fairy pet makes sense and feels like it could have always been that way.


But that's not fair because it hasn't always been that way. There's no previous example of a scholar having a fairy tag-along. Meanwhile there ARE previous examples of thieves and ninjas being the same character and acting in similar ways. My point is that changes happen all the time, but people are latching onto this one as though SE's said that the oceans will, from now on, be made of raspberry jam and contain flying shark monsters that shoot bees from their gills.

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I think everyone is just going with FFXI's version of a DRK in stating that they have to use a great sword or scythe.


Absolutely agree. There's quite a lot of "it was this way in FFXI" going on here for no rational reason at all since this is not FFXI.


The reason they changed SCH for XIV is because the typical style of SCH wouldn't have worked especially considering one key appeal of SCH through the series was a scan type of ability or something pertaining to the elements, which they purposefully left out in this game. Hell, it's even closer to XI's SCH than it is others, so while this isn't FFXI, you defeated your own argument. XI's SCH could do both Nuking and Healing - What can SCH do in XIV effectively? DPS and Heal.

Pretty much every version of DRK throughout FF has used some kind of magic, some type of "sacrifice" style abilitie(s) and used Swords of some fashion, XI threw in some variety by giving them Great Swords and Scythes. So as said, them suddenly turning it into something like a healing necromancer wouldn't make any sense whatsoever as long as this game is titled Final Fantasy. Things change, but some things just make absolutely zero sense. Faeries being added makes sense considering all they are is added healing abilities that the SCH themselves could have done perfectly fine, because let's be the real, the only thing that prevented them from doing that was the skill limitations they imposed on classes/jobs, otherwise, could you really not see a SCH using party buffs that does:

1. Regen
2. Skill/Spell Speed (aka gimped Player based Haste)
3. Shell type ability.
4. Casting Silence.
5. A buff to increase healing potency (since you know, even 1.x had healing potency for players)
6. Physick II

Since for example, WHM has Cure, Cure II, Cure III, Medica and Medica II - SCH has Physick, Succor and Adloq, one of which is the only actual cure while the other 2 are more for procing a shield.

Edited, Jun 27th 2014 5:03am by Theonehio
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#232 Jun 27 2014 at 7:57 AM Rating: Default
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Theonehio wrote:
So as said, them suddenly turning it into something like a healing necromancer wouldn't make any sense whatsoever as long as this game is titled Final Fantasy.
Giving magic of any type to Scholar doesn't make any sense since Final Fantasy 3's Scholars were only natively capable of Scanning an enemy's HP. Turning them into magical cannons doesn't make any sense whatsoever as long as the game is titled Final Fantasy.

Speaking of Final Fantasy 3, Dark Knights used White Magic there so the "healing necromancer" has already happened.
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#233 Jun 27 2014 at 8:47 AM Rating: Decent
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lass5 wrote:
Somehow I like what they did with Scholar more than what they did with Bard.

Louiscool wrote:
Pretty much. It's more like "stop with the knee-jerk reaction on every tidbit of news you hear and wait to play it."

When they said archer was going to be a bard, I freaked out. I was Archer4Life. Now I'm gonna play songs and ****!? **** NO. I'm still a bard, playing since 1.0. It's not an archer, it's not a bard, its hardly like anything in any FF game.

If I didn't like it I could go play literally any other game based in DnD lore.

When Summoner came out I had faith, then didn't enjoy the mechanics. Guess what I did? I stopped playing Summoner. I didn't melt, I didn't die, no one came to my house and slapped me in the face for not liking something.

What I didn't do was grab a pitchfork and take to the forums trying to make the developers change it to something I wanted.

Now a weird Thf/Ninja hybrid is coming. What will I do? I will sit here, waiting to try it and see if I like it. It's quite possible I won't and other people will, but I'm not going to tell those people they are wrong for liking the original take that the devs have on these classic jobs.


Your attitude is pretty unique though, the whole "take what you get and be grateful". People pay for this, I do think they're entitled to speak up.

I think with the original game I feel that way - let the creators do what they're going to do, but once you've got subscribers and people who have invested so much time, the game starts to belong to the subscribers at some point.

Not to say they need to always add exactly what the subscribers are asking for, content wise - but additions/changes shouldn't make people scratch their heads

For me, I'm going to try Ninja, but I guess what got me kind of ticked was the "Thief wouldn't work in FFXIV" bit. It's really a lot of baloney and I wish they'd stop saying stuff like that to cover their butt.

Edited, Jun 26th 2014 9:02pm by lass5


I agree on the bolded point. I've spoken up at length about my complaints on the endgame progression and many other ways the game could be improved.

I think my main gripe is when people complain about the artistic elements in a game, whether it's the lore or job implementation, or the story, or the ending (See Mass Effect 3.)

Warning: philosophical waxing incoming

Games are the only artistic medium where consumers have the power of change. If you don't like a movie ending, no amount of complaining will change it. Other mediums are uncompromising, which can be hated or loved (Greedo shot First, The Red Wedding).

Love it or hate it, that's what separates games, tv, film, and books from just sitting in a room imagining things yourself.

Tl;DR: Complain about actual issues, but trust developers with the story and lore.
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#234REDACTED, Posted: Jul 01 2014 at 2:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) whos going play a class job an not the advance job just because its thief with an different name they ***** up an people to blind to see it ninja > assassin's , Rogue>Thief that makes since they want to be so different from other final fantasy games it hurt the game i can image a bunch of rogues running around because people want the classic jobs not hybrid jobs that end up being the original jobs of classic final fantasy.. game lacks jobs i dont understand why classes are in the game they pointless an not used beyond level 30 so what they point of leveling gladiator to then be a paladin its retarded an waste of code i wanted i personally wanted Thf i liked they class even before it was online game people want variety an a choice i feel XIV is to linear an takes away what we like choices of jobs to play was hurt to see them come up with that lame excuse of rogue cant be in the game due to guilds in XI norg is a prime example ninja thief an samurai came from there dont know why they could not just say we can have thief an have them in a secret hide out where they have a base etc .. FFXIV is a disappointment for the time being.
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#235 Jul 01 2014 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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Your lack of sentence structure and punctuation is a disappointment. XIV is just a game plagued by the same problem most games like it have... pushing constant content updates.
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#236 Aug 10 2014 at 1:48 PM Rating: Default
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Honestly... Thf could branch from rogue. I could see them creating sort of an outcasts guild later on maybe or pirate like guild like Norg was in XI. I mean rogue could be a thief ... Could also be a samurai or ronin or anything really.... All rogue is is someone that has gone "loner" if someone goes rogue hat usually means on their own ... They're in it for self gain. Many games and mmos alike have had thieves guilds and not thieves guilds...
A good example of rogue showing thief qualities is EVERQUEST. Rogue could pickpocket... Backstab, poison, stealth, steal, blow things up, sabotage things... Etc. The only thing personally that I hate is mainly the fact you start out as a class... And end up turning it into something different... Archer an bard for example..... Why can't classes just be unique from one another even if they are used to evolve the class into something else.... No one is going to invite a lv 50 archer... Unless they equip the bard stone... Because archer is useless by itself essentially. I wish they have you the choice at least ... Maybe archer alone has different bow abilities from the bard past 40+ that separate the two classes making one more support and the other more of a DPS marksman. Same with rogue and ninja. Though rogue is basically a ninja once it's lv 30... I really wish they'd give the choice job separation... You could stay rogue but you don't get ninja stuff... And if you stay rogue it gets things you can't get as a ninja.... Would make it a little more broad in class choosing... And caiter to players' desire to just wield daggers and pickpocket and Backstab... And sneak about... And also be able to give to those who wish to change and take on an evolved form o sneaking around an damage dealing like ninjutsu... Magic and more ninja like things.
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#237REDACTED, Posted: Aug 10 2014 at 1:53 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes bad grammar and spelling for any grammer and spelling ***** out there... Also I meant of course "if you chose ninja you wouldn't get abilities the rogue would be able to get later on in lvs haha ... Obviously..
#238FilthMcNasty, Posted: Aug 12 2014 at 3:47 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) RDMs should use daggers, not swords. If you're gonna feed TP for mediocre DPS, you might as well maximize it... amirite?
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#239 Aug 13 2014 at 2:03 PM Rating: Default
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wen i can has ninja

squeenox pls
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#240 Aug 21 2014 at 12:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist wrote:
Thayos made a fairly strong point earlier in a different thread: We seem to be trying really hard to pigeonhole our experiences into preset expectations with little to no flexibility. That sort of habit really does make it hard to enjoy much of anything.

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#241 Aug 23 2014 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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Some awesome looking Ninja gameplay from the anniversary broadcast. Can't wait!
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#242 Aug 23 2014 at 10:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Arcari wrote:
Some awesome looking Ninja gameplay from the anniversary broadcast. Can't wait!


His monetization aside, it seems about what I expected given the GCD this game decided to go with. Shame that they admitted until god knows when the expansion comes out, this is the only class/job to come out till then.

So no Musketeer.
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#243 Aug 23 2014 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Theonehio wrote:
Arcari wrote:
Some awesome looking Ninja gameplay from the anniversary broadcast. Can't wait!


His monetization aside, it seems about what I expected given the GCD this game decided to go with. Shame that they admitted until god knows when the expansion comes out, this is the only class/job to come out till then.

So no Musketeer.


Didn't they already state that Rogue/Ninja was going to be the only new class/job added until the expansion quite a while back?
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#244 Aug 23 2014 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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Arcari wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
Arcari wrote:
Some awesome looking Ninja gameplay from the anniversary broadcast. Can't wait!


His monetization aside, it seems about what I expected given the GCD this game decided to go with. Shame that they admitted until god knows when the expansion comes out, this is the only class/job to come out till then.

So no Musketeer.


Didn't they already state that Rogue/Ninja was going to be the only new class/job added until the expansion quite a while back?


Nope, they just said at present it will only be Rogue/Ninja, Musketeer/Gunner was in limbo in terms of implementation. We already knew a new Healer and Tank would come with 3.0/Expansion.
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#245 Aug 23 2014 at 5:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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It was pointed out that the name of the training Dullahan was "Kakashi."

My secret inner Naruto fangirl let out a scream.
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#246 Aug 23 2014 at 11:58 PM Rating: Decent
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but ddidnt the specifically say back then that 2.4 would be bringing a "dagger class AND a gun class"? i guess they forgot they said that
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#247 Aug 24 2014 at 2:47 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
but ddidnt the specifically say back then that 2.4 would be bringing a "dagger class AND a gun class"? i guess they forgot they said that


Iirc they said something along the lines of "Dagger and gun jobs sooner than you think. More info coming", right before E3. This lead people to anticipate both jobs being announced and coming before the expansion. As it turned out they just announced the dagger one for 2.4 and then left the gun job unrevealed.

Personally I think the announcement of an announcement they seem so fond of just made people expect more than what SE delivered. Not to mention it created unecessary confusion.
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#248 Aug 24 2014 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
but ddidnt the specifically say back then that 2.4 would be bringing a "dagger class AND a gun class"? i guess they forgot they said that


I have no idea why you interpreted that as being the same class when the rest of the XIV population was able to separate it out into the two classes it will be.

This game is literally built around the idea of "your weapon is your class." The only classes that can switch are THM and CNJ, depending on whether they want to equip a shield or not, and that's mostly because they have interchangeable staves and wands to begin with.
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#249 Aug 24 2014 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
but ddidnt the specifically say back then that 2.4 would be bringing a "dagger class AND a gun class"? i guess they forgot they said that


I have no idea why you interpreted that as being the same class when the rest of the XIV population was able to separate it out into the two classes it will be.

This game is literally built around the idea of "your weapon is your class." The only classes that can switch are THM and CNJ, depending on whether they want to equip a shield or not, and that's mostly because they have interchangeable staves and wands to begin with.



umm what are you talkin about i did interpret as two different classes.. which is why Im asking.... why are we only getting one when back then they clearly announced two.
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#250 Aug 24 2014 at 9:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Because things change. The second Class isn't ready yet, simple as that.
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#251DuoMaxwellxx, Posted: Aug 24 2014 at 10:19 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) yes and when things change we usually get told as opposed to just sneaking it in at the last moment and acting as if said thing was never said/existed to begin with..... so yeah other ppl do at lot better at bein informative of changes.. you know like the plethora of games that were supposed to come out this year that have been publicly announced to have been delayed left and right? Thats what you do when things change
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