HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
So much to respond to in this thread that I don't think I could without making one gigantic post (even larger than it currently is).
I'd like to share some information that I've gained, though. Before I do that, I'll share my opinion on the old school vs new school mentality of MMOs.
As many of you have discovered in this post, what made a MMO interesting to you was the community and not necessarily the content. I see a mention of Ragnarok Online. Now there was an interesting MMO. There was quite an immersive community in RO. If any of you played a mage or an acolyte, you will remember the Glast Heim graveyard parties that used to take place. People would sit on the cross in the middle of the map while regaining mana (because it was safe there) while acolytes who had recently become priests nurtured parties with their MP regening skills.
So what do you think would happen while people were sitting around regaining MP to do battle? They would talk of course! Was it interesting? Depends on the person. The point is people were forming a community almost because the circumstances provided for them to. You could see this throughout all the towns as well. Sure enough, though, when they changed the map for graveyard, everyone disappeared because it was no longer safe or efficient to level on that map. One part of the community destroyed.
Did RO have the most unique and interesting combat system? No. Endgame? It was hat collection and nothing more. Maybe WoE/PVP if you wanted to go that far. It really wasn't anything special at all. Yet the community is what made the game for most of us.
The same goes for 11 and I mention it below. Yeah, you got into some parties where the exp rate was miserable but you still were forced to interact with each other. You picked exp locations, picked strategies, learned how each other worked because you spent more than 30 minutes with each other (if it was a good party), and had the chance to speak about random things because there was actual down time.
You had communities that were mixed together, too. All types of people from different countries trying to work together with the limited tools they had. I felt the need to learn a little bit of Japanese just so I could interact with one part of the community a little more effectively. Isn't it awesome how a game could make you want to develop a real life skill just because you felt that part of your gaming experience was affected by it? I think it is incredible!
I've never felt the need to use those abilities in 14 except to make funny faces.
And yes: you eventually got your parties together, got to the camp, and found that people were already there. But what did this force you to do?! Communicate!! You had to decide if it was worth staying there or if there were alternatives. You took the time to travel to the other location. You probably started having a conversation with party members before even reaching your exp destination.
The best part is that you actually got to see many of the maps because there were camp spots for exp parties there. You had to have certain things done (like airship access, teleport crystals, etc) and got to travel through the map on chocobo most of the time. Remember getting lost in Yuhtunga Jungle? I do. It was a super fun experience for me because I had to find my way back home before my chocobo expired. I eventually did and the sense of satisfaction I got was proportional to the stress I had to deal with during the journey!
I think many of you feel that these new conveniences added in modern MMOs somehow save you from these negative feelings that older MMOs gave you. It's true: teleporting to any location I want without even having to switch jobs is nice. Having a mount on any of the maps is awesome as well. But what price did you pay? You probably will never use the airship again. Heck, the airship is just a silly cutscene now instead of an actual event. The ferry ride too. They are no longer immersive events with the possibility of being manhandled by a sea horror.
You gained something but you lost something as well. Was it worth it? I personally do not think so. Traveling in 14 is not only an inconvenience but it is also extremely boring. I feel no danger when I travel as I can survive on my mount through anything. I didn't have to take a long hike to Mor Dhona with a bunch of perils along the way: I simply rode my chocobo right through a bunch of mobs that were 10+ levels higher than I without a scratch.
I will end this here and talk about something else. I just wanted to get some of you to realize that these conveniences are not as convenient as you think and come at a price. :)
Onto some observations....
I feel 14 will soon be suffering from a huge backlash soon. After leveling a brand new character from 1 to 50 and doing all the story content, FATEs, dungeons, etc again, I think new players will have a much different impression about Eorzea than we have if what I experienced is what they will experienced.
Right now, most of your wishes have been granted: leveling is slower. It's incredibly slow, actually. FATEs take too long and most zones are dead. The other option was using escort leves which was actually easy exp at the expense of mindless activities with no social interaction. What did they do? Nerf escort leves. They are barely worth it anymore. The other option is duty roulette however this limits you quite a bit since it's only a daily thing. The other option is then grind dungeons.
So right off the bat you will have newer players leveling slower, reaching level cap even slower than we did. They will have an easier time acquiring gear but will still be far behind any of us who have been playing since the release due to how currency and caps work.
Also the newer (more appealing) option does not grant you certain features that FATEs did.
1) Right now, I hit 50 with around 500 GC seals and a rank of Flame Sergeant Second Class. The last one requires 25k seals and I just don't find it feasible. So now players will hit 50 and not have access to their GC weapon after the respective quest much less other rewards that we had access to.
2) Despite me griping about FATEs quite a bit, they actually served an important purpose for the 14 community and that is forming a server-side community.
I was very careful when I did duty roulettes on my alt this time around. I wanted to observe what would happen in the average dungeon run if I just observed and said nothing. Right now on Hitome when I do high level dungeon roulette or CT, I get two things 1) no one talks or 2) (especially in CT) asshattery ensues.
There is no talking and, as a result, there is no bonding. There is no reason to do any of this because you will most likely never meet the people in your party ever again so why bother?
This gets me back to FATEs: an event that the server you are on can do together and, through this, you could form bonds with people. Yes, there was often no speaking in FATE parties but when I tried to instigate conversation, usually people were receptive and responded back. Some were even glad to be in a party that wasn't silent. So, there was at least a little social atmosphere here.
I believe the OP (and many others) feel this lack of communication. I assure you it's very real. I play quite a bit and do dungeons most of my time. While I affiliate myself with skilled players, I always find myself going to the DF because I enjoy interaction with random players. I do because random players bring...randomness to a party or alliance. You aren't entirely sure of how people have done fights, their play styles, or even their main language if you queue for all regions.
This is what made 11 and WoW enjoyable to me.
I read many threads on this forum and see many of you clinging to your FCs due to the familiarity of the people in it and because you despise these random parties that bring failure upon failure to you. Yes, it wasn't necessarily fun to be in a slow exp party in XI but at the same time you could distinguish who knew what they were doing in that party and possibly avoid grouping with them in the future. Some of you don't seem to be even trying to mingle with the rest of the community which adds on to the problem. :P
So you see I perceive several 'problems' that 14 will encounter here soon especially with the release of the PS4. Currently, players are bored because the time it took to get to 50 didn't take long enough. They fixed that a little. Currently, the prime way to level is through duty roulette. There are nice aspects to the duty roulette but, at the same time, it further subtracts from the social interaction you would expect from a MMO opposed to what we had before: FATEs.
So you have a bunch of players who started at release who didn't have access to things like duty roulette (slower leveling), CT (intermediate between DL and coil gear), and so many other things. The development team is still trying to catch up and patch up the mistakes they've made already. What's worse is that they are devoting resources almost equally to all facets of the game when, quite frankly, they can't afford to do so at the moment. There is an extreme lack of endgame content at the moment and, like another post has stated, I don't see turns 6-9 really taking that long to figure out. Remember: turn 6-9 and a few primal battles are all we have to work with for 6 months after release since they decided to alternate between CT and coil.
It isn't an easy job I would speculate. At least, though, you know which direction 14 is headed. If what I described above is what you seek in a MMO, you probably won't find that in 14. But, there are other things in this game that are worth the time invested even if you don't have the feeling of a large community in the end.
Looking at the MMO market right now...there really aren't any other MMOs I'd even consider if I were to quit 14. So I don't see any harm in hanging around to see where this journey takes us.
Edited, Jan 28th 2014 11:07pm by HitomeOfBismarck
I agree allot with what you said.
I wish I had time to reply to most of this but I am really busy at work today.
Here is a problem though.
A good portion of FFXIV players came from FFXI looking for the same experience but a game that is a little easier and didn't require the hours or as much grind.
That last part about there not being any other mmo's to go to right now, well for allot of people there is and it is FFXI.. FFXI could be what hurts this game in more ways than one. So many people who play this game come from FFXI and I am betting it is over a third and maybe much higher.
Allot of people I know did not even cancel their account and some still play. The rest said if this game did not work out they were pretty much done with mmos. Most of the FFXI group are older because they played FFXI so long and that is why the tolerance level is low to people acting like jerks.
But like the op said the community is what really is missing for those people from FFXI. Allot of FFXI people came to this game expecting community and instead they get stuff like asshatery like you said in CT or the cesspool they call duty finder. Instead of community they are getting beat on and the complete opposite of what they wanted.
If so many people that play FFXIV didn’t come from FFXI you would be right 100 percent. FFXI may be the thing that hurts FFXIV in the end and not because they might go back too FFXI even though some will , most may just quit because they didn’t find what they were looking for in this game.. It will all depend on the direction this game takes and changes made to it.
This is a easy fix, and that is make DF server specific. That will make people care more about their reputation because they may run into those people again. Will that mean less chance of a party? No because at the rate it is going people are starting to avoid DF.
Edited, Jan 29th 2014 10:50am by Nashred