I am making this thread to gather ideas and then the good ones might go into Wint's idea sticky. Feel free to add one to the sticky if you like.
Retainer functions
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/59953-Retainers-Will-Gather-For-You-in-ARR
1.I think retainer gathering should be limited to DoH & DoL guildleve quests, to keep the economy from inflation.
2. I think retainers should be able to purchase from vendors for you at low levels and bring you the materials.
3.I think retainers should be able to purchase from the auction house feature within the market to retain player dependency in crafting/gathering but not seek out bargains like you maybe could in person.
4.I think retainers should be able to tend to your personal room in the houses.
5.I think retainers should be able to receive ten tells when you are offline and give them to you when you log on.
Enemy Sign Functionality
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/9845-Enemy-Sign-Functionality
Any symbol with that is marked out with an X means do not use what that symbol signifies.
Varied Marks for marking enemies:
Closed eye symbol= Sleep
Sword = Weaponskill
Droplet= Dot it
Elemental symbols such as lightning= Nuke with that particular spell
Symbol of man- Charge in
Shield= Stay at a distance
Kite= Kite the enemy
Varied marks for marking allies:
Just have symbols displaying what ails an ally.
Half Heart= Halfway dead
Empty Heart- Verge of death
Poison Bottle= Poisoned
Empty Clock= Slowed
Filled Clock= Hasted(If spells, etc are released)
Shoe= Bound
Have a numbered system that is displayed next to each symbol for marking enemies. To assist in identifying certain enemies of importance.
Map Annotations
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/35471-SUGGESTION-Map-annotations
1. As they posted, link the journal and mini map for tracking quests= Less clicking. I played strictly with controller in TERA and navigating menus with the right analog is not optimal.
2.Cross player and cross zone map marking.
A)You ask a friend help for finding something whether you are in a different zone or not.
B)You accept linked map invite.
C)Friend marks it on the linked map.
D)The mark shows up on your map.
Various symbols for marking maps:
Bomb= Enemy spawn point
Treasure chest= Treasure
Face= Npc
Tree= Node
Dollar sign= Shop
Candle= Event
Ok there is some listed. Let me see what you have to bring to the table.
Edited, Jun 5th 2013 6:37pm by sandpark
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- Final Fantasy XIV
- General Discussion
- Your thoughts and ideas on various in the works ARR features
Your thoughts and ideas on various in the works ARR featuresFollow
I think the party member icons would not work due to screen clutter.
1. a option to make Debuffs on party members bigger or smaller depending.
2. Grid like party frame option would be nice not sure what they have for raids and such.
1. a option to make Debuffs on party members bigger or smaller depending.
2. Grid like party frame option would be nice not sure what they have for raids and such.
silverhope wrote:
I think the party member icons would not work due to screen clutter.
1. a option to make Debuffs on party members bigger or smaller depending.
2. Grid like party frame option would be nice not sure what they have for raids and such.
1. a option to make Debuffs on party members bigger or smaller depending.
2. Grid like party frame option would be nice not sure what they have for raids and such.
Might be kind of cluttered depending on how obtrusive they were, but how about icons next to party member names in the unit frame at the edge of the screen?
One of the more annoying parts of healing in FFXI was memorizing what each monster skill did so you could prep the right status cure for it. But really, every FF game has given you a visual indicator of status conditions so you can see at a glance who has what. Why not something similar here?
Could be an icon next to their name on the party frame.. or if you wanted to get really fancy, it could be a visual alteration of the character model ala FF6.
Edited, Jun 5th 2013 6:46pm by Callinon
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
I don't know Callinon, I have to disagree with you there about memorizing status ailments. I may be bias since I did WHM main for about a year before I quit, but I find it was one of the more exciting parts of the job. I do want a few things to be left for mages to discern on their own as a test of skill. I do like the visual alteration idea, since that offers a compromise between those who really don't want to memorize obscure things like this and people like me who enjoy it.
I do not like the enemy sign functionality. I'm never going to be the player that breaks down every minutiae of the game but even to me some things just come off like a father trying to explain the birds and the bees to his daughter. Its awkward and maybe even a little insulting. But we'll see. Like an awkward father, I may end up loving it anyway.
Atkascha wrote:
I don't know Callinon, I have to disagree with you there about memorizing status ailments. I may be bias since I did WHM main for about a year before I quit, but I find it was one of the more exciting parts of the job. I do want a few things to be left for mages to discern on their own as a test of skill. I do like the visual alteration idea, since that offers a compromise between those who really don't want to memorize obscure things like this and people like me who enjoy it.
While it was somewhat satisfying to know instinctively when someone had a status ailment, for the average joe schmoe it normally devolved into forgetting to heal said status ailment on a person or few people other than themselves and/or tank, normally accompanied by "Erase please" spam from their party members. There was also the issue of lag spikes, if you spiked at the wrong time you wouldn't know if someone had an ailment or not until someone told you. (IMO) The simplest most elegant way to do it for the default UI is to have it shown next to/under their name on your ui with a small icon and timer with a short description/debuff title on mouseover. However, depending on your playstyle you can adjust your UI to however you like, as (iirc) at/shortly after release it will be fully customizable.
Seraphknight777 wrote:
Atkascha wrote:
I don't know Callinon, I have to disagree with you there about memorizing status ailments. I may be bias since I did WHM main for about a year before I quit, but I find it was one of the more exciting parts of the job. I do want a few things to be left for mages to discern on their own as a test of skill. I do like the visual alteration idea, since that offers a compromise between those who really don't want to memorize obscure things like this and people like me who enjoy it.
While it was somewhat satisfying to know instinctively when someone had a status ailment, for the average joe schmoe it normally devolved into forgetting to heal said status ailment on a person or few people other than themselves and/or tank, normally accompanied by "Erase please" spam from their party members. There was also the issue of lag spikes, if you spiked at the wrong time you wouldn't know if someone had an ailment or not until someone told you. (IMO) The simplest most elegant way to do it for the default UI is to have it shown next to/under their name on your ui with a small icon and timer with a short description/debuff title on mouseover. However, depending on your playstyle you can adjust your UI to however you like, as (iirc) at/shortly after release it will be fully customizable.
To be frank, that's part of the reason why mage jobs are not for everyone. That is also why I enjoy them, because of that exclusivity. On the other side of the fence, some people cannot play DD classes to save their life due to drawing too much hate and so forth. The people you described simply should not have been on WHM. I have dealt with plenty of them. Trust me. Having the option to not have something like that on my UI is the only compromise for this, I agree.
Atkascha wrote:
Seraphknight777 wrote:
Atkascha wrote:
I don't know Callinon, I have to disagree with you there about memorizing status ailments. I may be bias since I did WHM main for about a year before I quit, but I find it was one of the more exciting parts of the job. I do want a few things to be left for mages to discern on their own as a test of skill. I do like the visual alteration idea, since that offers a compromise between those who really don't want to memorize obscure things like this and people like me who enjoy it.
While it was somewhat satisfying to know instinctively when someone had a status ailment, for the average joe schmoe it normally devolved into forgetting to heal said status ailment on a person or few people other than themselves and/or tank, normally accompanied by "Erase please" spam from their party members. There was also the issue of lag spikes, if you spiked at the wrong time you wouldn't know if someone had an ailment or not until someone told you. (IMO) The simplest most elegant way to do it for the default UI is to have it shown next to/under their name on your ui with a small icon and timer with a short description/debuff title on mouseover. However, depending on your playstyle you can adjust your UI to however you like, as (iirc) at/shortly after release it will be fully customizable.
To be frank, that's part of the reason why mage jobs are not for everyone. That is also why I enjoy them, because of that exclusivity. On the other side of the fence, some people cannot play DD classes to save their life due to drawing too much hate and so forth. The people you described simply should not have been on WHM. I have dealt with plenty of them. Trust me. Having the option to not have something like that on my UI is the only compromise for this, I agree.
I could settle for a visual alteration concept, however there be times where there are so many enemies and allies on the screen, it might be hard to see that. I said I disliked having the threat meter added and preferred feeling the hate threshold. It still got implemented. This marking feature is coming. At best you can ask for the option to turn it off or help shape the concept.
I enjoyed playing Priest in TERA and didn't like it much in other games. I guess I attribute that to having to focus on positioning and aiming versus watching health bars and pressing a key. As for the marking, I think as long as it is optional. It should be in the game.
Quote:
I enjoyed playing Priest in TERA and didn't like it much in other games. I guess I attribute that to having to focus on positioning and aiming versus watching health bars and pressing a key. As for the marking, I think as long as it is optional. It should be in the game.
I don't know, I've been playing a cleric in Neverwinter which is pretty similar, and I found picking one guy who needed healing out of a melee scrum to be really annoying.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
I have to be honest - I always really despised the retainer system. It's weird, it's not something I want, it's... ugh. I just hate it.
It's creepy too. I can't really remember from 1.0, but is there a legitimate reason why we have these blankly staring, frozen SLAVES selling our stuff 24/7?
I hear that there's an Auction House now but you still have to do everything through your retainer (/gag), the idea of them actually expanding the retainer system in any way instead of removing it or making it a very out of the way, super optional feature...
well, I was hoping they'd just remove it for ARR! I always thought it was one of Tanaka's most bizarre decisions.
It's creepy too. I can't really remember from 1.0, but is there a legitimate reason why we have these blankly staring, frozen SLAVES selling our stuff 24/7?
I hear that there's an Auction House now but you still have to do everything through your retainer (/gag), the idea of them actually expanding the retainer system in any way instead of removing it or making it a very out of the way, super optional feature...
well, I was hoping they'd just remove it for ARR! I always thought it was one of Tanaka's most bizarre decisions.
Archmage Callinon wrote:
I don't know, I've been playing a cleric in Neverwinter which is pretty similar, and I found picking one guy who needed healing out of a melee scrum to be really annoying.
I guess I attribute that to having to focus on positioning and aiming versus standing watching health bars and pressing a key. That's annoying to me. It's like I'm playing whack a mole with endless moles popping out.
I never played Neverwinter. Does it work the same way?
Killua125 wrote:
I have to be honest - I always really despised the retainer system. It's weird, it's not something I want, it's... ugh. I just hate it.
It's creepy too. I can't really remember from 1.0, but is there a legitimate reason why we have these blankly staring, frozen SLAVES selling our stuff 24/7?
I hear that there's an Auction House now but you still have to do everything through your retainer (/gag), the idea of them actually expanding the retainer system in any way instead of removing it or making it a very out of the way, super optional feature...
well, I was hoping they'd just remove it for ARR! I always thought it was one of Tanaka's most bizarre decisions.
It's creepy too. I can't really remember from 1.0, but is there a legitimate reason why we have these blankly staring, frozen SLAVES selling our stuff 24/7?
I hear that there's an Auction House now but you still have to do everything through your retainer (/gag), the idea of them actually expanding the retainer system in any way instead of removing it or making it a very out of the way, super optional feature...
well, I was hoping they'd just remove it for ARR! I always thought it was one of Tanaka's most bizarre decisions.
Leave some gil on your retainer every now and then. He/she can use it as allowance so that you don't think you're dealing with slave labor. In the mean time, I hope you hear a loud, resounding really? because I can't keep up with how outrageous your pessimism is.
Killua125 wrote:
I have to be honest - I always really despised the retainer system. It's weird, it's not something I want, it's... ugh. I just hate it.
It's creepy too. I can't really remember from 1.0, but is there a legitimate reason why we have these blankly staring, frozen SLAVES selling our stuff 24/7?
I hear that there's an Auction House now but you still have to do everything through your retainer (/gag), the idea of them actually expanding the retainer system in any way instead of removing it or making it a very out of the way, super optional feature...
well, I was hoping they'd just remove it for ARR! I always thought it was one of Tanaka's most bizarre decisions.
It's creepy too. I can't really remember from 1.0, but is there a legitimate reason why we have these blankly staring, frozen SLAVES selling our stuff 24/7?
I hear that there's an Auction House now but you still have to do everything through your retainer (/gag), the idea of them actually expanding the retainer system in any way instead of removing it or making it a very out of the way, super optional feature...
well, I was hoping they'd just remove it for ARR! I always thought it was one of Tanaka's most bizarre decisions.
With no intention to sound mean i really laughed out loud with this. :D
I mean come on so if you think they are "slaves" aren't you a mass murderer with all the people you have slaughter in all your gaming life?
sandpark wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
I don't know, I've been playing a cleric in Neverwinter which is pretty similar, and I found picking one guy who needed healing out of a melee scrum to be really annoying.
I guess I attribute that to having to focus on positioning and aiming versus standing watching health bars and pressing a key. That's annoying to me. It's like I'm playing whack a mole with endless moles popping out.
I never played Neverwinter. Does it work the same way?
It's similar. I've been playing healers for years. So seeing that one of the melee in the dogpile is at half health makes me want to fix that. It's just made annoying by the fact that picking him out of there is difficult.
It's something I would get used to though, and in coordinated groups it's simple enough to tell people that if they'd like to not die, they should step out for a second so the healer can actually see them.
Quote:
It's creepy too. I can't really remember from 1.0, but is there a legitimate reason why we have these blankly staring, frozen SLAVES selling our stuff 24/7?
Slaves?
The retainers in 1.0 reminded me of zombies, not slaves. See when you think of slaves, you think of people that are DOING SOMETHING. Retainers just stood around with those hollow stares.. peering into your soul for all eternity. Vaguely inviting you to examine what they had for sale but only really because they were standing there.. empty..
Those things were creepy.
I'm looking forward to the changes to the retainer system under the hopes that I never have to see that again.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
True, true. Zombie slaves, or creepily lifelike mannequins. Regardless, they really creep me out. I do not like retainers one bit.
Edited, Jun 6th 2013 2:36pm by Killua125
Edited, Jun 6th 2013 2:36pm by Killua125
It was SE's attempt to integrate the infamous "Rolanmart" mules into the game directly. (In FFXI, people would leave their characters logged in just outside Jeuno in Rolanberry Fields, their bazaars open with stuff for sale that could not be sold on the AH. That included NM pop sets, Dynamis currency and ancient beastcoins, and very rare expensive difficult to craft items that would cost a lot of taxes to go on the AH only to probably not sell within the required 3 days. Also crafters who couldn't fit everything they were selling on the AH with their limited 7 slots.)
The problem with the retainers is that while not everyone would permanently hang out in Rolanmart (it's where you parked your main char when you weren't actually playing it, or parked a 2nd paid account to act as a mule), EVERYONE keeps their retainer up 24/7. And no one ever follows the little rules SE put in place about where to park them to pay the least taxes, since the "good" wards would fill up first. Near the end on Balmung, I gave up because all the wards were full within a day after maintenance.
Retainer system: Good theory, terrible implementation.
The problem with the retainers is that while not everyone would permanently hang out in Rolanmart (it's where you parked your main char when you weren't actually playing it, or parked a 2nd paid account to act as a mule), EVERYONE keeps their retainer up 24/7. And no one ever follows the little rules SE put in place about where to park them to pay the least taxes, since the "good" wards would fill up first. Near the end on Balmung, I gave up because all the wards were full within a day after maintenance.
Retainer system: Good theory, terrible implementation.
Catwho wrote:
It was SE's attempt to integrate the infamous "Rolanmart" mules into the game directly. (In FFXI, people would leave their characters logged in just outside Jeuno in Rolanberry Fields, their bazaars open with stuff for sale that could not be sold on the AH. That included NM pop sets, Dynamis currency and ancient beastcoins, and very rare expensive difficult to craft items that would cost a lot of taxes to go on the AH only to probably not sell within the required 3 days. Also crafters who couldn't fit everything they were selling on the AH with their limited 7 slots.)
The problem with the retainers is that while not everyone would permanently hang out in Rolanmart (it's where you parked your main char when you weren't actually playing it, or parked a 2nd paid account to act as a mule), EVERYONE keeps their retainer up 24/7. And no one ever follows the little rules SE put in place about where to park them to pay the least taxes, since the "good" wards would fill up first. Near the end on Balmung, I gave up because all the wards were full within a day after maintenance.
Retainer system: Good theory, terrible implementation.
The problem with the retainers is that while not everyone would permanently hang out in Rolanmart (it's where you parked your main char when you weren't actually playing it, or parked a 2nd paid account to act as a mule), EVERYONE keeps their retainer up 24/7. And no one ever follows the little rules SE put in place about where to park them to pay the least taxes, since the "good" wards would fill up first. Near the end on Balmung, I gave up because all the wards were full within a day after maintenance.
Retainer system: Good theory, terrible implementation.
I have tried coming up with solutions besides removing retainers myself.
What would you do to get this done and make it good?
sandpark wrote:
Catwho wrote:
It was SE's attempt to integrate the infamous "Rolanmart" mules into the game directly. (In FFXI, people would leave their characters logged in just outside Jeuno in Rolanberry Fields, their bazaars open with stuff for sale that could not be sold on the AH. That included NM pop sets, Dynamis currency and ancient beastcoins, and very rare expensive difficult to craft items that would cost a lot of taxes to go on the AH only to probably not sell within the required 3 days. Also crafters who couldn't fit everything they were selling on the AH with their limited 7 slots.)
The problem with the retainers is that while not everyone would permanently hang out in Rolanmart (it's where you parked your main char when you weren't actually playing it, or parked a 2nd paid account to act as a mule), EVERYONE keeps their retainer up 24/7. And no one ever follows the little rules SE put in place about where to park them to pay the least taxes, since the "good" wards would fill up first. Near the end on Balmung, I gave up because all the wards were full within a day after maintenance.
Retainer system: Good theory, terrible implementation.
The problem with the retainers is that while not everyone would permanently hang out in Rolanmart (it's where you parked your main char when you weren't actually playing it, or parked a 2nd paid account to act as a mule), EVERYONE keeps their retainer up 24/7. And no one ever follows the little rules SE put in place about where to park them to pay the least taxes, since the "good" wards would fill up first. Near the end on Balmung, I gave up because all the wards were full within a day after maintenance.
Retainer system: Good theory, terrible implementation.
I have tried coming up with solutions besides removing retainers myself.
What would you do to get this done and make it good?
It always struck me as the kind of idea that would have worked really well in a very small game. Think about it.. you set up your retainers at stalls, maybe allow the player to add signage to the stall itself so that passers-by can know what's being sold.
The issue is when you have tens of thousands of players, each with their retainers, trying to sell things like that. Really, it was a predictable problem.
I doubt there's a way to do it according to the original vision and not make it stupid. The rolanmart never really got out of hand for a few reasons:
1: It generally required your main character to stand there doing nothing. Some people used mules for this, but that necessitated buying an extra account for the privilege.
2: The Rolanberry Fields entrance where this was set up is HUGE and open. This allowed the bazaars to spread out and give people a reasonable chance to browse.
3: As Catwho said, it was done primarily as a way to avoid AH fees or sell those things that couldn't be sold on the AH. The AH was still there. It wasn't being replaced with this.
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
How I'd fix it:
1. Limit the amount of stuff a retainer can sell to 20 items or stacks. Still more items than XI's AH, but not an entire inventory.
2. Once a retainer's stuff has all sold, the retainer disappears from the view pool until you "reactivate" them.
3. A single "market ward" area instead of 20 identical areas. Tax everything equally.
4. Only 20 retainers actually visible. The 20 visible ones are randomly chosen once an hour. Not that it really matters, considering how similar they all are.
5. All invisible retainers are still listed in the search engine, and you can buy from them indirectly. (What they implemented in one of the golden patches in 1.0)
6. Clicking on one of the visible retainers also gives you the option of switching to the main retainer search menu. So if they don't have what you want, you don't have to run to the end of the hall to activate the search menu.
1. Limit the amount of stuff a retainer can sell to 20 items or stacks. Still more items than XI's AH, but not an entire inventory.
2. Once a retainer's stuff has all sold, the retainer disappears from the view pool until you "reactivate" them.
3. A single "market ward" area instead of 20 identical areas. Tax everything equally.
4. Only 20 retainers actually visible. The 20 visible ones are randomly chosen once an hour. Not that it really matters, considering how similar they all are.
5. All invisible retainers are still listed in the search engine, and you can buy from them indirectly. (What they implemented in one of the golden patches in 1.0)
6. Clicking on one of the visible retainers also gives you the option of switching to the main retainer search menu. So if they don't have what you want, you don't have to run to the end of the hall to activate the search menu.
While I could see it getting a bit spammy and unwieldy, my personal preference for sharing status information is that you see your own status and (optionally) your target monster. To know if other people are afflicted, they should be able to set up a chat/party line to automatically say something in response to the status effect.
e.g., if Blinded, you'll automatically say, "I can't see!" or some other custom text. This goes in the combat text box along with damage, rather than the chat box.
This particular suggestion aside, this was the sort of thing that seemed oddly lacking to me, not just in FFXIV, but in most newer MMOs. For as much crap as I give FFXII for being an offline version of FFXI, the Gambit System actually has MORE potential in application of an MMO. Being able to set up simple cause->effect scripts for your character, if nothing else, would force the designers to really think about the nature of the gameplay. Basically, if something can be so easily automated that it's a good universal rule, then it's probably not well-thought-out enough in implementation.
But the Rolanmart mules were just a workaround for taxes and the 7-slot AH limitation. It seemed to me like they missed the point here. The retainer system was (and I'll apologize in advance for my go-to phrase) "bad design," because they created it as a solution to a problem they hadn't even created yet. Auction house first--then see if your commerce system has shortcomings that need to be addressed.
Edited, Jun 7th 2013 8:37am by Kachi
e.g., if Blinded, you'll automatically say, "I can't see!" or some other custom text. This goes in the combat text box along with damage, rather than the chat box.
This particular suggestion aside, this was the sort of thing that seemed oddly lacking to me, not just in FFXIV, but in most newer MMOs. For as much crap as I give FFXII for being an offline version of FFXI, the Gambit System actually has MORE potential in application of an MMO. Being able to set up simple cause->effect scripts for your character, if nothing else, would force the designers to really think about the nature of the gameplay. Basically, if something can be so easily automated that it's a good universal rule, then it's probably not well-thought-out enough in implementation.
Catwho wrote:
It was SE's attempt to integrate the infamous "Rolanmart" mules into the game directly. (In FFXI, people would leave their characters logged in just outside Jeuno in Rolanberry Fields, their bazaars open with stuff for sale that could not be sold on the AH. That included NM pop sets, Dynamis currency and ancient beastcoins, and very rare expensive difficult to craft items that would cost a lot of taxes to go on the AH only to probably not sell within the required 3 days. Also crafters who couldn't fit everything they were selling on the AH with their limited 7 slots.)
The problem with the retainers is that while not everyone would permanently hang out in Rolanmart (it's where you parked your main char when you weren't actually playing it, or parked a 2nd paid account to act as a mule), EVERYONE keeps their retainer up 24/7. And no one ever follows the little rules SE put in place about where to park them to pay the least taxes, since the "good" wards would fill up first. Near the end on Balmung, I gave up because all the wards were full within a day after maintenance.
Retainer system: Good theory, terrible implementation.
The problem with the retainers is that while not everyone would permanently hang out in Rolanmart (it's where you parked your main char when you weren't actually playing it, or parked a 2nd paid account to act as a mule), EVERYONE keeps their retainer up 24/7. And no one ever follows the little rules SE put in place about where to park them to pay the least taxes, since the "good" wards would fill up first. Near the end on Balmung, I gave up because all the wards were full within a day after maintenance.
Retainer system: Good theory, terrible implementation.
But the Rolanmart mules were just a workaround for taxes and the 7-slot AH limitation. It seemed to me like they missed the point here. The retainer system was (and I'll apologize in advance for my go-to phrase) "bad design," because they created it as a solution to a problem they hadn't even created yet. Auction house first--then see if your commerce system has shortcomings that need to be addressed.
Edited, Jun 7th 2013 8:37am by Kachi
Kachi wrote:
But the Rolanmart mules were just a workaround for taxes and the 7-slot AH limitation. It seemed to me like they missed the point here. The retainer system was (and I'll apologize in advance for my go-to phrase) "bad design," because they created it as a solution to a problem they hadn't even created yet. Auction house first--then see if your commerce system has shortcomings that need to be addressed.
I actually agree that it was bad design. I think it was bad design AND poor implementation. The AH absolutely should have been incorporated first.
Catwho wrote:
How I'd fix it:
1. Limit the amount of stuff a retainer can sell to 20 items or stacks. Still more items than XI's AH, but not an entire inventory.
2. Once a retainer's stuff has all sold, the retainer disappears from the view pool until you "reactivate" them.
3. A single "market ward" area instead of 20 identical areas. Tax everything equally.
4. Only 20 retainers actually visible. The 20 visible ones are randomly chosen once an hour. Not that it really matters, considering how similar they all are.
5. All invisible retainers are still listed in the search engine, and you can buy from them indirectly. (What they implemented in one of the golden patches in 1.0)
6. Clicking on one of the visible retainers also gives you the option of switching to the main retainer search menu. So if they don't have what you want, you don't have to run to the end of the hall to activate the search menu.
1. Limit the amount of stuff a retainer can sell to 20 items or stacks. Still more items than XI's AH, but not an entire inventory.
2. Once a retainer's stuff has all sold, the retainer disappears from the view pool until you "reactivate" them.
3. A single "market ward" area instead of 20 identical areas. Tax everything equally.
4. Only 20 retainers actually visible. The 20 visible ones are randomly chosen once an hour. Not that it really matters, considering how similar they all are.
5. All invisible retainers are still listed in the search engine, and you can buy from them indirectly. (What they implemented in one of the golden patches in 1.0)
6. Clicking on one of the visible retainers also gives you the option of switching to the main retainer search menu. So if they don't have what you want, you don't have to run to the end of the hall to activate the search menu.
So If I gather correctly the issue is the game trying to display so many npcs at one time and too many items allowed.
If functionality takes precedence over seeing an entire retainers wares. An traditional AH has players all standing clustered around a central area. Why not treat each stall as an instance.
What about this:
Allow players to place their retainer wherever they wish in the game world besides dungeons or the marketwards.
1.Change the wards to be setup like a a village market. A stall for swords, a stall for shields, etc, etc. These act as filter. If you want a sword, walk up to the sword stall.
2.There is a central area with different forks. Whichever fork you take leads you to that instance immediately.
3.Each stall has a cashier not a retainer. This cashier works for your retainers.
4.You select the item you want to purchase. Whichever retainer you confirmed the wish to buy from is instantly teleported to the stall until the transaction is complete.
5. The retainer returns to wherever that player had them set to stand before.
What do you think Catwho?
Edited, Jun 7th 2013 3:39pm by sandpark
Quote:
Vaguely inviting you to examine what they had for sale but only really because they were standing there.. empty..
There was never any need to check; it was always 10 stacks of marmot meat priced at 999.999.999.
BartelX wrote:
Kachi wrote:
But the Rolanmart mules were just a workaround for taxes and the 7-slot AH limitation. It seemed to me like they missed the point here. The retainer system was (and I'll apologize in advance for my go-to phrase) "bad design," because they created it as a solution to a problem they hadn't even created yet. Auction house first--then see if your commerce system has shortcomings that need to be addressed.
I actually agree that it was bad design. I think it was bad design AND poor implementation. The AH absolutely should have been incorporated first.
I half suspect that they somewhere along the way decided that the Market Wards -should- be the Auction House, because it was more realistic to buy things from all these individual people than from a mystery counter. The problem with that is that any time you use a UI portal for a game interaction, you're breaking the realism--it's being suspended for the purposes of completing an abstract task. So the priority should be to make it as efficient as possible so that the player can return to the more finely polished elements of the game--the parts where the UI is just the game itself, like players killing monsters. Or, there are some exceptions for clever UI elements that are presented less as a "menu" and more as a compelling, narrative piece. e.g., things like marking a map manually can be fine if the map "feels" real and there's some utility in managing it manually.
Quote:
But the Rolanmart mules were just a workaround for taxes and the 7-slot AH limitation. It seemed to me like they missed the point here. The retainer system was (and I'll apologize in advance for my go-to phrase) "bad design," because they created it as a solution to a problem they hadn't even created yet. Auction house first--then see if your commerce system has shortcomings that need to be addressed.
This statement is money.
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
Jormungandr
Hyperion
sandpark wrote:
Catwho wrote:
How I'd fix it:
1. Limit the amount of stuff a retainer can sell to 20 items or stacks. Still more items than XI's AH, but not an entire inventory.
2. Once a retainer's stuff has all sold, the retainer disappears from the view pool until you "reactivate" them.
3. A single "market ward" area instead of 20 identical areas. Tax everything equally.
4. Only 20 retainers actually visible. The 20 visible ones are randomly chosen once an hour. Not that it really matters, considering how similar they all are.
5. All invisible retainers are still listed in the search engine, and you can buy from them indirectly. (What they implemented in one of the golden patches in 1.0)
6. Clicking on one of the visible retainers also gives you the option of switching to the main retainer search menu. So if they don't have what you want, you don't have to run to the end of the hall to activate the search menu.
1. Limit the amount of stuff a retainer can sell to 20 items or stacks. Still more items than XI's AH, but not an entire inventory.
2. Once a retainer's stuff has all sold, the retainer disappears from the view pool until you "reactivate" them.
3. A single "market ward" area instead of 20 identical areas. Tax everything equally.
4. Only 20 retainers actually visible. The 20 visible ones are randomly chosen once an hour. Not that it really matters, considering how similar they all are.
5. All invisible retainers are still listed in the search engine, and you can buy from them indirectly. (What they implemented in one of the golden patches in 1.0)
6. Clicking on one of the visible retainers also gives you the option of switching to the main retainer search menu. So if they don't have what you want, you don't have to run to the end of the hall to activate the search menu.
So If I gather correctly the issue is the game trying to display so many npcs at one time and too many items allowed.
If functionality takes precedence over seeing an entire retainers wares. An traditional AH has players all standing clustered around a central area. Why not treat each stall as an instance.
What about this:
Allow players to place their retainer wherever they wish in the game world besides dungeons or the marketwards.
1.Change the wards to be setup like a a village market. A stall for swords, a stall for shields, etc, etc. These act as filter. If you want a sword, walk up to the sword stall.
2.There is a central area with different forks. Whichever fork you take leads you to that instance immediately.
3.Each stall has a cashier not a retainer. This cashier works for your retainers.
4.You select the item you want to purchase. Whichever retainer you confirmed the wish to buy from is instantly teleported to the stall until the transaction is complete.
5. The retainer returns to wherever that player had them set to stand before.
What do you think Catwho?
Ooh. I like the idea of being able to plop a retainer anywhere in the world. Sometimes in XI there would be mules selling stuff in the most random places, but those random places made sense. For example, a mule in "Hall of the Gods" selling Silent Oil and Prism Powders would have made a killing prior to 2008, since so much endgame still revolved around {sky} and monsters up there were aggressive to magic. Death still had a huge penalty and ANY magic was dangerous there. 20K worth of supplies from a mule vs having to home point and spend 20 minutes running back up there again? A no brainer.
I think the market wards in 1.0 were implemented the way that they were simply because there was no other way to do it with their limited time.
I don't even think the wards would need to be instanced. Like you said, a large central hub with spoke areas. Go to a spoke, find NPC selling stuff. Don't find what you want, NPC offers to search the "inventory list" of retainers selling things for you. If someone has what you want, you pay a small fee (tax) to teleport the retainer there to buy straight from them.
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