I submit the following two sentences. Similar in appearance, but very different in meaning:
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand, and God."
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God."
Please don't omit the last comma from a set. It's an awful convention that was started to save space in newspapers (because technically, each additional character costs them money). It has no purpose here, and can never be better than leaving them all in.
(Conversely, do not insert an extra comma where none should be, or in some random place, e.g. "You are an illiterate, offensive, jerk." A decent test is to ask yourself whether you would pause if reading the sentence aloud.)
"Internet" and "Web" are proper nouns and should be capitalized. Most people don't do this; I didn't for years. But if you want to be picky, there you go. Also, they are not synonyms.
I've always liked these pages:
http://www.ecn.bgu.edu/users/gas52r0/Jay/spelling/looselose.html
http://angryflower.com/aposter.html
If you want some information overload:
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~brians/errors/errors.html
Finally, being too strict can be detrimental. If you get all hot under the collar when someone starts a sentence with "But", even when it sounds better that way or works well for pacing purposes, that's unreasonable in my mind. Dangling participles aren't the end of the world, except for maybe the really stupid ones ("Where's the library at?"). "Myriad" can (allegedly) be used as either a noun or an adjective now. "ATMs" versus "ATM's" is a national thing, but I prefer the non-US way (no pointless apostrophe). "ATM machine", on the other hand, is redundant. So is "SCUBA gear", but that one's less obvious.
Language is constantly evolving, and the purpose of language is to communicate and/or to artistically express yourself. I'm hoping that English doesn't "evolve" in the direction a lot of Internet users seem to want to take it, but it is a fairly complex language compared to some. That said, I feel that while complexity makes communication more difficult, it leaves more room for artistic expression, so there has to be a trade-off.
Whew, what a windbag. I guess what I'm saying is that as long as someone gets their point across without being too horrible, I usually give them a break. If not, I guess I'd have to be a Beastmaster, because I couldn't stand to talk to anyone (my distaste for "lol" would disqualify most, if not all, of the entire FFXI population).
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And remember, I aggro to typoes and exclamation points. :-)
How nerdy do you have to be to actually care about correct grammar in a video game.
Who cares if I use R instead of ARE, or U instead of YOU. If you're so intelligent, you should know what im saying without it having to be perfect.
Who cares if I use R instead of ARE, or U instead of YOU. If you're so intelligent, you should know what im saying without it having to be perfect.
Quote:
*****First why do you care about it and second why did you bounce my thread? Dident have to do that dont do it its rude much like you cursing At devilwolf dont cuss at people that proves that you are a fool cussing at people and dont tlak crap about our ls dw runs an awsome ls you are hateing becasue we have more ls mebers then any other ls in bismark (except may JP ones) your a fool for cussing at people like that DW has help me out alot ok so who cares nad what is a GM like you called on him gonna do They mostly deal with glitches you cussed witch isent neccaery you like to get into other buissness and you cuss most importantly you keep things to your self that doesnt hurt you or your friends or your friends friends you think it would of sold anyways people do that all the time and dont say where low leveld there alot of new member start the gmae we recruit that come for help and that we treat with respect dont hate apreciate dont be cruel either it doesnt help and as for dw seling the armor for that price yes its messed up and i dont like it one bit but dont talk crap about others in the ls that you make a presumtion you see a few weaks you think were all weak you are rude but you can change oh and im annonymys casue i lost allakz passwords and forget user name just be nice bbut yes dw did do something that very wrong and unaceptable but dont talk about everyone else you dont know us. One thing calling people low level is low it self becasue maybe they dont have time to play or dont have enough time to play or cant play much. ********
**taken from another forum for illustrative purposes, and I have no idea how to quote on this so that's the best I can do**
THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT NOT TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!
**taken from another forum for illustrative purposes, and I have no idea how to quote on this so that's the best I can do**
THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT NOT TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!
By pus-spewing, blood soaked hell OUCH!
Quote:
How nerdy do you have to be to actually care about correct grammar in a video game.
Who cares if I use R instead of ARE, or U instead of YOU. If you're so intelligent, you should know what im saying without it having to be perfect
Who cares if I use R instead of ARE, or U instead of YOU. If you're so intelligent, you should know what im saying without it having to be perfect
Because it prevents us from doing what you just did to yourself, make us look like a dumb ***.
It's spelled "grammer." Duh. 
This reminds me of the line from the movie " Tucker "
" That's because you talk worst than me, the same language."
HAH!
Excellent post....though often, my typing skills betray any grammatical prowess I may, or may not, possess.
" That's because you talk worst than me, the same language."
HAH!
Excellent post....though often, my typing skills betray any grammatical prowess I may, or may not, possess.
Yes, most of us do know what people are saying when they use 'r' for 'are' and 'u' for you. However, I am concerned that those who choose to practice this new form of 'writing' will carry that form over into real life.
Most of you who write that way would probably disagree with me, however, I have recently seen posts (on other boards) where some have complained about this type of 'spelling' now being seen in office memos. I, therefore, believe that there IS carry-over and that this 'trend' will become normalized in time. That makes me not only sad but angry, as I do not see it as a good trend.
I attribute it to youth just trying to be 'different' (a phase that all of us who are past youth know is a real phenomena). That is fine as long as they lose it as they 'grow up'. There are non-teens who use this language as well. In my estimation, they are those who fervently wish to be 'one of the crowd' too. They have a need to 'fit in'. But, the more of us who 'speak' that way, the more chance it has to be normalized and accepted in the real world.
Today, being even semi-literate appears to make one stand out, and not in a good way (if one goes by the comments of many posters who just shrug off bad grammar and spelling, or who tell people to jump in a lake if they criticize a 'leetspeak' poster).
If teachers accept this (and some will, make no mistake about that) in essays and on tests, in homework assignments, etc., if parents accept this in notes on the fridge (or even try to emulate it in a vain attempt to 'communicate' with their kids, or to be their 'friend'), I believe, we, as a society, are in serious trouble in the future.
I think the face a society that communicates this way presents to the world degrades our whole society, and is definitely not cute. For that reason, I have a hard time biting my tongue (though I usually do) when I see it here on the boards or in game.
I also think it should be a matter of personal pride to at least attempt to present oneself well. Change is fine, but, it must be change backed up with good reason. The sloppier we get about communication, the poorer we will communicate, and the poorer we will all be as a country/society, both monetarily and socially.
Ok ... too much of a lecture. My apologies, but, I just wish people would make a bit more effort to conform when it makes sense to do so, and when there are good life reasons for doing so. It is spreading. I could handle it in game if I thought it would be totally confined to the game, but, it is not. That should concern all of us.
Most of you who write that way would probably disagree with me, however, I have recently seen posts (on other boards) where some have complained about this type of 'spelling' now being seen in office memos. I, therefore, believe that there IS carry-over and that this 'trend' will become normalized in time. That makes me not only sad but angry, as I do not see it as a good trend.
I attribute it to youth just trying to be 'different' (a phase that all of us who are past youth know is a real phenomena). That is fine as long as they lose it as they 'grow up'. There are non-teens who use this language as well. In my estimation, they are those who fervently wish to be 'one of the crowd' too. They have a need to 'fit in'. But, the more of us who 'speak' that way, the more chance it has to be normalized and accepted in the real world.
Today, being even semi-literate appears to make one stand out, and not in a good way (if one goes by the comments of many posters who just shrug off bad grammar and spelling, or who tell people to jump in a lake if they criticize a 'leetspeak' poster).
If teachers accept this (and some will, make no mistake about that) in essays and on tests, in homework assignments, etc., if parents accept this in notes on the fridge (or even try to emulate it in a vain attempt to 'communicate' with their kids, or to be their 'friend'), I believe, we, as a society, are in serious trouble in the future.
I think the face a society that communicates this way presents to the world degrades our whole society, and is definitely not cute. For that reason, I have a hard time biting my tongue (though I usually do) when I see it here on the boards or in game.
I also think it should be a matter of personal pride to at least attempt to present oneself well. Change is fine, but, it must be change backed up with good reason. The sloppier we get about communication, the poorer we will communicate, and the poorer we will all be as a country/society, both monetarily and socially.
Ok ... too much of a lecture. My apologies, but, I just wish people would make a bit more effort to conform when it makes sense to do so, and when there are good life reasons for doing so. It is spreading. I could handle it in game if I thought it would be totally confined to the game, but, it is not. That should concern all of us.
Quote:
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand, and God."
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God."
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God."
Even the the first example, Ayn Rand can be confused as your parents. An even better example would be "I'd like to thank my mother and father, Ayn Rand, and God.
Good. I love to air this one.
"Could of" makes no freaking sense. The correct term is "could have."
"I could have beaten that creature."
The reason people tend to use "of" is that, when you say it out loud, you actually wind up saying, "Could've." This is not an acknowledged contraction, but I'll gladly look the other way on "could've" if it will stop people from using "could of."
To answer the question (which should have been punctuated with a question-mark, while we're on the subject), not that freaking nerdy. I'm an English major. Grammar is really important to me. I often slacken when I'm posting on message boards, but I still see every ******* grammar mistake that people make in games and forums.
If I'm too busy beating my forehead against my keyboard because the moron I'm grouping with has a macro that says, "im jjumpin on uuuuuuu <t>!!!!!" then I'm probably going to wind up missing something important.
"Could of" makes no freaking sense. The correct term is "could have."
"I could have beaten that creature."
The reason people tend to use "of" is that, when you say it out loud, you actually wind up saying, "Could've." This is not an acknowledged contraction, but I'll gladly look the other way on "could've" if it will stop people from using "could of."
Quote:
How nerdy do you have to be to actually care about correct grammar in a video game.
To answer the question (which should have been punctuated with a question-mark, while we're on the subject), not that freaking nerdy. I'm an English major. Grammar is really important to me. I often slacken when I'm posting on message boards, but I still see every ******* grammar mistake that people make in games and forums.
If I'm too busy beating my forehead against my keyboard because the moron I'm grouping with has a macro that says, "im jjumpin on uuuuuuu <t>!!!!!" then I'm probably going to wind up missing something important.
'board' for 'bored'
'bored of' for 'bored with'
As for spelling, since I was raised in the Canadian/British school system, seeing the constant dropping of double letters before a vowel (which, in my mind, changes the whole pronunciation of a word) drives me nuts.
'Droping' for 'dropping' is an example.
This trend is so common now in the US that my American version of Word spellchecker often tries to correct me when I spell something correctly (by the rules I learned).
In some cases, dropping that second consonant actually makes the word into another recognizable word, sometimes distorting the whole meaning of a sentence. I have seen recent examples of that phenomena but can't think of one off hand right now. If I do, I will edit this post to include it.
'bored of' for 'bored with'
As for spelling, since I was raised in the Canadian/British school system, seeing the constant dropping of double letters before a vowel (which, in my mind, changes the whole pronunciation of a word) drives me nuts.
'Droping' for 'dropping' is an example.
This trend is so common now in the US that my American version of Word spellchecker often tries to correct me when I spell something correctly (by the rules I learned).
In some cases, dropping that second consonant actually makes the word into another recognizable word, sometimes distorting the whole meaning of a sentence. I have seen recent examples of that phenomena but can't think of one off hand right now. If I do, I will edit this post to include it.
Scholar
16 posts
Quote:
How nerdy do you have to be to actually care about correct grammar in a video game.
Who cares if I use R instead of ARE, or U instead of YOU. If you're so intelligent, you should know what im saying without it having to be perfect.
Who cares if I use R instead of ARE, or U instead of YOU. If you're so intelligent, you should know what im saying without it having to be perfect.
I do not care about it being perfect. I do not expect everyone to be an English major before posting. Anyone can post like reply I am typing now. Chances are there are at least 3 or 4 mistakes in this post. English is my worst subject in school yet I am perfectly able to post something easy on the eyes. I do like to mock my own language.
What is the point in typing like that anyway? Just cut it out guys.
Edited, Thu Jul 29 13:54:53 2004 by MasterTMC
"Alright" isn't a real word. It has just become accepted by people as a word.
For that matter, "accept" is when you receive something (I accept this gil from you) and "except" is used when there is a special case separate from a listing (I like all of the guilds except for the fishing guild).
"Whose" is a possessive adjective (Whose apple pie is this?) and "who's" is the contraction of "who is" (Who's going to do Mission 3-1 with us tonight?).
For that matter, "accept" is when you receive something (I accept this gil from you) and "except" is used when there is a special case separate from a listing (I like all of the guilds except for the fishing guild).
"Whose" is a possessive adjective (Whose apple pie is this?) and "who's" is the contraction of "who is" (Who's going to do Mission 3-1 with us tonight?).
Quote:
"Whose" is a possessive adjective (Whose apple pie is this?) and "who's" is the contraction of "who is" (Who's going to do Mission 3-1 with us tonight?).
Scholar
32 posts
Quote:
'Droping' for 'dropping' is an example.
This trend is so common now in the US that my American version of Word spellchecker often tries to correct me when I spell something correctly (by the rules I learned).
This trend is so common now in the US that my American version of Word spellchecker often tries to correct me when I spell something correctly (by the rules I learned).
Please don't insult us Americans who actually know how to spell the word dropping. I also was taught with the correct use of conjugation of verbs in English and I grew up in the American school system. I know, you should feel pity for me. :P
But seriously, Microsoft is by far the worst language and grammar authority in the world.
Just so everyone knows, a site by the name of dictionary.com exists for those instances when you don't know what a word means or how the little bugger is supposed to be spelled.
Words commonly confused:
know - I know what I am talking about.
now - I am talking about Final Fantasy XI now.
no - No, I don't want to get off the couch and stop playing Final Fantasy XI.
Also, any verbs with the suffix of -ing, indicates a two-part verb. He is dropping, she is running, they are flying, and so on. Not, He dropping, she running, they flying, or he is drop, she is run, they are fly (another meaning in slang of course).
Affect - I affected my friend's decision to quit by pointing out all the good things in this gamed.
Effect - Ice spikes has an effect in that it can paralyze an enemy.
Effect - Ice spikes has an effect in that it can paralyze an enemy.
Don't use apostrophes to pluralize words!
I notice this issue comes up mostly with abbreviations and acronyms:
WHMs not WHM's
BCNMs not BCNM's
JPs not JP's
Your all a bunch of grammer loosers it's agrevating!!!111!
abracadada wrote:
I submit the following two sentences. Similar in appearance, but very different in meaning:
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand, and God."
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God."
Please don't omit the last comma from a set. It's an awful convention that was started to save space in newspapers (because technically, each additional character costs them money). It has no purpose here, and can never be better than leaving them all in.
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand, and God."
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God."
Please don't omit the last comma from a set. It's an awful convention that was started to save space in newspapers (because technically, each additional character costs them money). It has no purpose here, and can never be better than leaving them all in.
The first,
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand, and God."
gives the impression you are speaking to Ayn Rand, and you've inserted their name for clarification. Not clear about how many parties - 2 or 3 - are being thanked.
The second,
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God."
has no such meaning, and is clear in conveying that there are three parties being thanked. In this isntance, it is very appropriate not to include the second comma. It is omitted to imply an inclusive list. So yes, the second comma changes the nature of the sentence and is grammatically correct.
/nerd off
Negative contractions:
Couldn't = could not
Haven't = have not
NOT "couldent" or "havent."
Positive contractions:
Could've = could have
Should've = should have
NOT "could of" or "should of." This one chaps my hide the most. Do you even recognize that "of" is not a verb?!
I will gladly claim the title of "grammer geek" or "grammer looser" (um, it's "loser," loser) and wear it as a badge of pride.
Couldn't = could not
Haven't = have not
NOT "couldent" or "havent."
Positive contractions:
Could've = could have
Should've = should have
NOT "could of" or "should of." This one chaps my hide the most. Do you even recognize that "of" is not a verb?!
I will gladly claim the title of "grammer geek" or "grammer looser" (um, it's "loser," loser) and wear it as a badge of pride.
Quote:
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God."
has no such meaning, and is clear in conveying that there are three parties being thanked. In this isntance, it is very appropriate not to include the second comma. It is omitted to imply an inclusive list. So yes, the second comma changes the nature of the sentence and is grammatically correct.
has no such meaning, and is clear in conveying that there are three parties being thanked. In this isntance, it is very appropriate not to include the second comma. It is omitted to imply an inclusive list. So yes, the second comma changes the nature of the sentence and is grammatically correct.
That makes it appear that his parents are Ayn Rand and God. Parents is taken as a pronoun, and Ayn Rand and God as the objects of the pronoun.
Scholar
32 posts
Quote:
The first,
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand, and God."
gives the impression you are speaking to Ayn Rand, and you've inserted their name for clarification. Not clear about how many parties - 2 or 3 - are being thanked.
The second,
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God."
has no such meaning, and is clear in conveying that there are three parties being thanked. In this isntance, it is very appropriate not to include the second comma. It is omitted to imply an inclusive list. So yes, the second comma changes the nature of the sentence and is grammatically correct.
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand, and God."
gives the impression you are speaking to Ayn Rand, and you've inserted their name for clarification. Not clear about how many parties - 2 or 3 - are being thanked.
The second,
"I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God."
has no such meaning, and is clear in conveying that there are three parties being thanked. In this isntance, it is very appropriate not to include the second comma. It is omitted to imply an inclusive list. So yes, the second comma changes the nature of the sentence and is grammatically correct.
I would have to say the first sentence is saying you would like to thank 3 distinct parties: your parents, Ayn Rand, and God.
The second is saying you would like to thank your parents whom are Ayn Rand and God.
/ubernerd off
CBD wrote:
That makes it appear that his parents are Ayn Rand and God. Parents is taken as a pronoun, and Ayn Rand and God as the objects of the pronoun.
Ah, you are correct. However, it is also correct in that it infers a list of (in this case) persons. All in the context, I suppose.
Oh boy! A grammar thread!
Actually, Nyrissa, the first indicates three parties being thanked. The second makes it seem as though the speaker's parents ARE Ayn Rand and God. (Yeah, yeah, I was like sixth in saying this.)
And at the risk of having someone think that I'm chasing vxvenom around the forums and calling him/her out or something here... actually, it's a matter of stylistic preference NOW. This is an extremely recent development, and only in less formal forms of writing. If one were writing a paper using most official style guidelines, for instance, two spaces after a period would still be correct. In the last five years or so, however, this standard has dropped in most casual writing, much to my chagrin, as it's ingrained in me.
Edited, Thu Jul 29 15:07:24 2004 by MissLMonkey
Quote:
Removed the big ol' quote 'cause lots of people got to it before me. Sniff. Sob. Wah!
Actually, Nyrissa, the first indicates three parties being thanked. The second makes it seem as though the speaker's parents ARE Ayn Rand and God. (Yeah, yeah, I was like sixth in saying this.)
Quote:
Quote:Also, one space after a comma, and 2 spaces after a period.
That's purely stylistic preference.
That's purely stylistic preference.
And at the risk of having someone think that I'm chasing vxvenom around the forums and calling him/her out or something here... actually, it's a matter of stylistic preference NOW. This is an extremely recent development, and only in less formal forms of writing. If one were writing a paper using most official style guidelines, for instance, two spaces after a period would still be correct. In the last five years or so, however, this standard has dropped in most casual writing, much to my chagrin, as it's ingrained in me.
Edited, Thu Jul 29 15:07:24 2004 by MissLMonkey
inthefade Esquire wrote:
It's spelled "grammer." Duh.
Be quiet you moran.
+1 Skeeter. Edited, Thu Jul 29 14:54:50 2004 by ResidentLune
Finishing 8th grade might be a start for some people.
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