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So I Went Ahead and Pre-ordered The Broken MirrorFollow

#27 Nov 24 2015 at 5:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Geroblue wrote:
Hmm... More a pointer to a list. Person with bag A which has 75 slots. You don't need to store the game items in the bag, but a reference to the game item.

Like mapping software I have. The symbol for the house or mountain is stored in the map. Then every one of those you place in other parts of the map reference back to the first one. No need to store the symbol for every time you use that item in the map.


Yeah. It's a data structure issue. Each slot would be a single address that contains a pointer value to the address of the object currently occupying the slot (or some kind of null address for an empty slot). For bag objects, the object itself would contain a set of slots, each also containing a pointer to the address of the object in the slot. If you code it properly, then you can simply have template objects for each size/type of bag depending on what you want, with the easy ability to add more over time. Just point to the object type and fill with the specific instanced information on the fly based on the characters gear. But there's an overhead cost to that kind of flexibility, and I suspect that when they originally wrote the EQ code, they needed it to run smoothly on the hardware of the day, so they probably took a shortcut in terms of UI access to potential objects contained within each slot.

Said shortcut could easily have taken the form of directly addressing every possible slot on a character. So ignoring worn gear, you have 8 inventory slots, each of which can contain a bag with up to 8 slots. So just create 64 addresses, right? And just use the UI itself to control access (A 4 slot bag doesn't allow access to the other 4 addresses that could potentially be used. They're still there, but you can't select them). That will run much much faster, but you've coded yourself into a corner if you ever want to expand the number of inventory slots, or the size of bags in those slots. Which is likely why they had so much trouble expanding those way back in the day.

I'm reasonably certain those limitations are long long gone though. Current limitations on bag sizes are almost certainly about forcing players to make storage choices, presumably some of which will involve spending station/daybreak cash (or in game cash for things like housing). Which is all about money for them. Which is not unfair or anything. They are running a business after all. But yeah, I don't think it's any kind of technical or coding issue at this point.
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#28 Nov 25 2015 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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The irony is they could actually make MORE money by offering bigger bags at a higher individual cost per storage unit. For example, the biggest "Big Bag" you can buy on the Marketplace (when it's available, which isn't always, amazingly) has 36 slots and sells for $25.00. Yeah, believe it or not! "Members" get 10% off so call it $22.50. At times in the past when Station Cash could be had at a 4-for-1 rate with Walmart bonus cards during triple-SC events (which I suspect we shall NEVER see again under DB) you could buy these bags as cheap as $4 apiece. That's when some of us <ahem> stocked up. But nowadays I doubt you're ever going to get this bag cheaper than the 4-bag "bundle" discounted 10% as a member, which means paying at the cheapest $17 apiece.

$17 for 36 storage slots is about 47c per slot. If they introduced a 128-slot bag for minimum cost of $64 each (which comes out to 50c per slot, a HIGHER unit price) I betcha it would sell very well. EQ players, for some reason I've never fully understood, are addicted to mounts, illusion clickies AND Big Bags. Any player with the money to burn (and they're are quite a few of them, I've met players with every slot on their person and in their bank loaded with 36-slot bags---and on their mules too) will want to be the first in his guild or among his friends with the 128-slot bag. Especially if it has a unique graphic and an unusual color.

Bank on it!
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#29 Nov 25 2015 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't disagree with the bag logic stated in this thread at all.


What I would like to see (whether as an expansion feature or just general quality of life upgrade) is the personal bank converted to the system the guild bank uses. Nice visible window with settable options to sort your own loots (including a field to type in your own note --like the guild tab has).

This doesn't stop them selling "increase personal bank storage by 10 slots" upgrades in the marketplace either.
#30 Nov 25 2015 at 9:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think they could easily increase bank space and guild bank space via the Marketplace. I think they could do a bit of cost analysis and see what they could drop the cost of the 36 slot bags to. I didn't do well in it, but at university we took a stats class where you took things like widget costs 10 centa to make, with 75 cents lathe time, etc. Then you calculated a break point where above the line you gained money and below the line you lost money. Of course, it too far above the line, you would eventually lose as customers stopped paying that price. Wich is where I think some players are now. $25 for a virtual bag is too much.

The biggest program I wrote at university was about 7-9,000 lines of code, on a DEC VAX 11/730 'miniframe' computer, I don't know what problems larger bags or bank slots would cause DayBreak.

But computers, and servers, are much better able to handle a pointer ist and databases these days.
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#31 Nov 26 2015 at 12:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Geroblue wrote:
The biggest program I wrote at university was about 7-9,000 lines of code, on a DEC VAX 11/730 'miniframe' computer


And here I thought I was old school!
#32 Nov 26 2015 at 1:12 AM Rating: Decent
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don't suppose anyone got a video fighting in that pre order illusion shroud of Boken ?
#33 Nov 26 2015 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Baron von Oxgoad wrote:
Geroblue wrote:
The biggest program I wrote at university was about 7-9,000 lines of code, on a DEC VAX 11/730 'miniframe' computer


And here I thought I was old school!



Gero and I are about the same vintage :)
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#34 Nov 26 2015 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I started my programming with punch cards in college, although I don't remember the name of the main-frame.

Bought my first IBM PC in 1984 for $5,500 and it came with a 10 MEG hard drive (I said MEG---not GIG) and I still remember how closing files was a constant need because if you had more than 4 or so files open at once the CPU would slow to a crawl.

You can see why in those days, and for quite awhile after, it was worth the effort to dedicate only two bytes to the year, as opposed to four. Of course this led to the billions of dollars that had to be invested in "Y2K" remediation, but that's a derailment for another day.
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#35 Nov 26 2015 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sippin wrote:
I started my programming with punch cards in college, although I don't remember the name of the main-frame.


I started in high school with >paper tape< (yes, a roll of paper tape, with holes in it to encode the bytes), and then we moved up to 8" floppies :)

This was late 70s.

Tat
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Tatanka Wolfdancer, 115 Wood Elf Druid, 9 x 300+ Master Artisan, 7 maxed trophies (dang research! :)
Michone, 115 Troll Shadowknight
Anaceup Mysleeves, 115 Erudite Mage, 2 x 300 Master Artisan
Snookims Whinslow, 112 Erudite Enchanter, 2 x 300 Master Artisan
<Inisfree>, Tunare (Seventh Hammer!)
#36 Nov 26 2015 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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tatankaseventh wrote:
I started in high school with >paper tape< (yes, a roll of paper tape, with holes in it to encode the bytes), and then we moved up to 8" floppies :)

This was late 70s.


And didn't you love it when 3/4 of the way through there was a flaw in the paper? Happened to me twice in one night pulling an overnighter trying to meet a deadline that I had kept putting off because of a new lady friend.....
#37 Nov 26 2015 at 11:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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/em Ash from Evil Dead..... "Good times, good times" :)
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Tatanka Wolfdancer, 115 Wood Elf Druid, 9 x 300+ Master Artisan, 7 maxed trophies (dang research! :)
Michone, 115 Troll Shadowknight
Anaceup Mysleeves, 115 Erudite Mage, 2 x 300 Master Artisan
Snookims Whinslow, 112 Erudite Enchanter, 2 x 300 Master Artisan
<Inisfree>, Tunare (Seventh Hammer!)
#38 Nov 27 2015 at 6:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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And now for something completely different... sort of...

Quote:
(Four well-dressed men sitting together at a vacation resort. 'Farewell to Thee' being played in the background on Hawaiian guitar.)

Michael Palin: Ahh.. Very passable, this, very passable.

Graham Chapman: Nothing like a good glass of Chateau de Chassilier wine, ay Gessiah?

Terry Jones: You're right there Obediah.

Eric Idle: Who'd a thought thirty years ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Chateau de Chassilier wine?

MP: Aye. In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.

GC: A cup ' COLD tea.

EI: Without milk or sugar.

TJ: OR tea!

MP: In a filthy, cracked cup.

EI: We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.

GC: The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.

TJ: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.

MP: Aye. BECAUSE we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, 'Money doesn't buy you happiness.'

EI: 'E was right. I was happier then and I had NOTHIN'. We used to live in this tiiiny old house, with greaaaaat big holes in the roof.

GC: House? You were lucky to have a HOUSE! We used to live in one room, all hundred and twenty-six of us, no furniture. Half the floor was missing; we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of FALLING!

TJ: You were lucky to have a ROOM! *We* used to have to live in a corridor!

MP: Ohhhh we used to DREAM of livin' in a corridor! Woulda' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House!? Hmph.

EI: Well when I say 'house' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpolin, but it was a house to US.

GC: We were evicted from *our* hole in the ground; we had to go and live in a lake!

TJ: You were lucky to have a LAKE! There were a hundred and sixty of us living in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.

MP: Cardboard box?

TJ: Aye.

MP: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, our Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!

GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

TJ: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.

EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, (pause for laughter), drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing 'Hallelujah.'

MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.

ALL: Nope, nope..
____________________________
Sippin 115 DRU **** Firiona Vie ****Agnarr
FV: 115 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ SHD SHM Master Alchemist ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
Master Artisan (300+) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
Agnarr: 65 DRU ENC SHD MAG CLE ROG WIZ BRD WAR
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