Necessary classes for raidsFollow

Finally. Someone that's not stuck in the 1800's as far as game play is concerned. Ok I will stay this. Now that SK's have a Divine hammer of their own, they can take ramp now, which usually, for us, is delegated to a Paladin. I always thought that was such a waste of utility on the raid level. A paladin stuck on ramp, is generally limited in scope of options and tethered to one spot, I guess on Vitio one off, that is ok, since that is a straight melee encounter with no OT assignments and healing isnt an issue. But on Tita's Ghost, Offtanking and healing is big. so removing a Paladin from an OT assignment does more then just that. If always removes him from Splashing and healing. Having an SK assume the Ramp role, free's up a paladin to focus on Splashes, heals, offtanking, What you say about SK's, Xanathol, is exactly how it is. No one says anything about them or complains, because they of the bonds of friendship, etc. We have had a couple SK's make heroic and level different toons, of their own doing because they want to bring something to the raid. We have 1-2 Sk's on a raid. 4-5 paladins every night, 5-6 warriors for rotations. and thats pretty much our offtank and MT rotation.


Edited, Oct 3rd 2015 11:08pm by RatheLinden

No...LOL..no..Its not end of story. Were gonna talk about that, because its utter and complete non-sense. Again, go spend time playing the game.

/GU Guard Vraymon in 270s, 209539k @776069 / #11 Linden 8257k@(30811 in 268s) [3.94%] Live mob.
/GU A keeper of the flame in 41s, 28004k @683020 / #2 Linden 2480k@(63586 in 39s) [8.86%] Live
/GU A xulous scout in 14s, 1402k @100114 / #1 Linden 917k@(83337 in 11s) [65.4%] Live

/GU Una Lucem in 94s, 15933k @169500 / Linden 5503k@(58541 in 94s) [34.54%] / Monk 4531k@(63811 in 71s) [28.44%] / Rogue 2534k@(32912 in 77s) [15.91%] / ***** (Linden's Merc) 1734k@(20168 in 86s) [10.89%] /Shadow Knight 1549k@(17401 in 89s) [9.72%] / SK pet 82k@(1083 in 76s) [0.52%] Live


Paladin -vs- Una Lucem: -- DMG: 5502808 -- DPS: 58541 -- Scaled: 58541 -- Slash: 4279543 -- DirDmg: 1152340 -- Environmental: 35881 -- Bash: 35044 -- % dmg as normal: 34.5% -- % dmg as critical: 65.5% -- Non-crit rate: 77.5% -- crit rate: 22.5% -- Attempts: 634 -- Hits: 511 -- Missed: 120 -- Defended: 3 -- Accuracy: 81% -- Avg Hit: 10768 -- Max hit: 100137 -- DMG to PC: 767274 (tanking/healing and DPS #1 in all three areas) live

Shadow Kite -vs- Una Lucem: -- DMG: 1548683 -- DPS: 17401 -- Scaled: 16475 -- Slash: 1092234 -- DirDmg: 289468 -- DoT: 147847 -- Bash: 19134 -- % dmg as normal: 70.1% -- % dmg as critical: 29.9% -- Non-crit rate: 82.4% -- crit rate: 17.6% -- Attempts: 282 -- Hits: 238 -- Missed: 43 -- Defended: 1 -- Accuracy: 84.7% -- Avg Hit: 6507 -- Max hit: 79201 -- DMG to PC: 0

/GU Captain Kanteer in 158s, 227196k @1437950 / #5 Paladin 12677k@(103911 in 122s) [5.58%] Raid dps #5 (undead)

Linden -vs- Captain Kanteer: -- DMG: 12677165 -- DPS: 103911 -- Scaled: 80235 -- Slash: 6844677 -- Slay: 4736085 -- DirDmg: 1062078 -- Bash: 34325 -- % dmg as normal: 50.5% -- % dmg as critical: 49.5% -- Non-crit rate: 59.5% -- crit rate: 40.5% -- Attempts: 294 -- Hits: 294 -- Accuracy: 100% -- Avg Hit: 43119 -- Max hit: 589382 -- DMG to PC: 0 (undead)

Im sorry what were you saying about Paladin dps?

Linden, those are clearly not apples to apples comparisons. An equally geared/leveled/AAd character of each melee class, given the option to do nothing but maximize the amount of damage they are doing to a mob will always result in the Paladin at the bottom of the list. I obviously don't know the specifics of the situations where those parses you keep tossing out came from, but I suspect they are not typical numbers for the complete set of "paladins" and "other melee characters". Can't be. A simple look at relative weapon availability, applicable skills and abilities, spells, etc, should immediately allow anyone to conclude that, everything else being equal, a paladin will not out damage other classes.

It may very well be that your paladin, in certain situations, with certain other mixes of classes, fighting specific mobs with a specific strategy, may result in you having much higher damage parses than the other characters, but that is absolutely not typical. And I guess that's part of the problem I'm having here. Your claiming to post advice for other paladins, but the advice and example cases you keep using assume that the player in question already has a maxed level/AA character with the best gear possible in the game and thus has nothing better to do with his time than test himself against tough mobs. That's great for you, but it's useless for the other 99.9999% of the players in the game.

I remember when you posted your guide for paladins being somewhat confused because it didn't look like most of your suggestions were very useful. At the time, I wasn't sure why, but now that I know a bit more about your play focus, it makes sense. Again though, the problem is that what you were suggesting and telling other paladins to do, will just get them killed. A lot. Over and over. It's not so much a guide for other paladins then, but you bragging about how uber your character is, in the guise of a guide. And you're frankly doing the same thing here.

I'll say it again: Most players don't play the way you do. Arguing about class balance based on your own capabilities isn't very helpful. I'll also point out that arguing that other players don't know how to play isn't helpful either. You do get that your not really being more skilled. You just have a better geared and AA'd character. Frankly, your spell lineup and strategy is pretty much a simplistic hammer approach. Max out healing, swap out AAs and abilities in the right order. Done. Anyone could do it. Most can't, not because they aren't skilled enough, but because they don't have the same gear as you do. That's great, but that's like saying that because you drive a Lamborghini, you must be a better driver. Um... No. You just drive a better car. Skill is about what you can do with what you have. I'd say someone who can max out kill rate and exp gain rate with medium level gear is just as skilled, and perhaps even more skilled than you are. He's just doing something else.

You say I can't teach you anything about playing a Paladin. How about humility? That might be a great start.

Oh, hell. I was going to just ignore this. But... I'm me. ;)



So at most, you represent the play style of 20% of those who play the game. In reality, most players who raid aren't at maxed gear/AA though, so you represent a far smaller segment of the playing population.




Except to provide relevant information for the 80% or so who might find what I have to say useful. As opposed to the much smaller percentage who will find your posts to be so.



I'm not criticizing your spell lineup. I'm criticizing *you* for obsessing on one spell lineup for one extremely rare situation and ignoring or dismissing everything else.



Yeah. Which is why it's not much of an accomplishment merely to have done so. Again, my issue isn't with the line up itself. It's a good line up for what you're doing. The problem is that what you're doing isn't what most players are doing. So it's not super useful for most players. Repeating the same claims about the same line up over and over doesn't change that.



I'm not telling you or anyone else how to play a specific class. You, on the other hand, are. Your entire set of posts basically consists of you insisting that the way you play your character is the best way to play, and everyone should play that way, and anyone who doesn't just isn't skilled, or knowledgeable, or even has any business posting on the subject of that class. Sorry if I find that a bit ridiculous.



My comments on dps and tanking are general comments about the relative strengths of each class, and are pretty universally agreed upon by the players of the game. Do you seriously go to the Daybreak boards and argue that warriors really aren't the best main raid tanks and everyone should switch to paladins instead? Cause I'm pretty sure that must be a riot to watch.



Sounds like you're being overly defensive. All I said was that what you are accomplishing has more to do with gear than skill, and that skill can be measured in more ways than what you are measuring it by. You're free to be offended, but at the risk of repeating myself, most players measure skill by what you can do with what you have. There's a reason why some players on this board choose to do things like start characters from scratch and restrict themselves to only a subset of expansions and gear. They want to see what they can do without having the best whistles and bells.

Some of us even think that kind of thing is fun. Yes. The horror! Actually playing a game for fun rather than bragging rights. Who could possibly want to do that?



Which just kinda supports my point about how small a percentage of the EQ player population your posts actually help.



Yeah. Cause that's going to happen.




Um. Sure. I'll take that suggestion from the guy with 42 posts on this forum. Not! Look. I'm sure you're a great guy and all, and we'd love to hear more from you. But maybe the better advice would be you to try to post things that are interesting and informative for other players, rather than just self glorifying stuff?

Maybe you should try playing an alt sometime? Broaden your horizons? Try something different. You might find that there's more to the game you play than what you are currently doing. And you might just find that this provides you with more common ground with other players, and more things to actually engage in discussion about.



Yay! I got the LAST word. Go me!

Edited, Oct 15th 2015 2:52pm by gbaji

WOW! A nearly-endless debate about the relative merits of paladin and shadowknights!

I read this in bed at night when I can't get to sleep.

Snoozes me out in seconds....