Hello everyone,
It's good to see that there is still a community around EQ. Like most of the recent surge, my interest was piqued by the TLP servers. I've read a number of the replies to other posts like my which I found very useful. My circumstances are a bit unique, so I'm hoping for some additional guidance.
I am hoping to recruit my brother and his girlfriend to join a TLP server with me. He and I both played years ago, but she has 0 experience with EQ (WoW / Rift only). As I approach them, I'm hoping to suggest three classes which will give us the ability to play as a good 3 group, but also ensure the success of full parties. I'll give our various experiences, then a few of the ideas floating around in my head.
I've only played a Ranger in EQ, getting up to the mid 50s near the beginning of the dragon-people expansion (cannot recall the name). In wow, my main was a paladin, with experience in tanking/dps/healing, but a dislike for healing. My brother played a paladin in EQ and I believe got to the mid 60s back around PoP. In wow, he played a shadow priest exclusively (originally because he liked the utility it provided in BC). His girlfriend has always had a main of a healing druid.
Since we have 3, I feel like it would be very useful to have a teleport of some time; I anticipate that the girlfriend will want to play a druid (how convenient!). I am torn whether or not to go with a tank + dps, tank + utility, or 2 strong utility classes. I feel like having bard + enchanter + druid or paladin + wiz + druid would probably set us up pretty well for success, but I don't really know what the supply / constraints on roles are on the TLP servers.
To reiterate, I haven't played in quite awhile, so please be blunt if my assumptions are totally off. Thanks!
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Scholar
35 posts
Hi JMarl, and I hope you get a successful trio going!
Here's my advice for the Progression servers.
If you're primarily hoping to trio instead of forming a full group, here are some key classes to strongly consider.
Shaman: Having a Shaman around means you have slows. Turgur's at 51 (Kunark) is godlike, but even before that it makes Shaman the healer of choice for small groups. You get SoW, huge stat buffs, a pet to add more dps, dots, and with Canni the Shaman isn't as dependent on having Clarity effects as a Cleric or Shaman. Shaman > Cleric > Druid for small group content. You can buy a port. You can't buy slows for every fight. Oh sure, as expansions come out you could buy a melee character something like a Swarmcaller, but procs are unreliable and not nearly as good as just having a Shaman for reliable, extremely potent slows.
Your tank: With a Shaman (I strongly, strongly, strongly recommend someone play a Shaman), any melee class can tank. Obviously a Warrior is the sturdiest, but a Shadowknight, Monk, Paladin, or Ranger will all serve the purpose. You may want to consider a Shadowknight or a Ranger simply for the fact that they get snare effects. If you don't have an Innoruuk Shaman, you can't get the snare necklace clicky quest, and if your third person doesn't have snares, then you may have issues with runners in dungeons. My personal advice is Shadowknight, since you have feign death pulling, snare, good dps, and great aggro. About all you'll lack that a Warrior gets is Defensive Discipline, which is REALLY nice for farming nameds but not necessary.
Your third: Just about anything fits in well here. I'd strongly recommend a Bard, but any class fits in very well with a Shaman / Tank. Another melee means mobs die faster, an Enchanter will let you handle rough areas with ease, Wizards bring dps and ports, Druids bring dps, ports, and offhealing (the worst of the three healers, but still nice), Mages bring their awesome pets for consistent dps and summoned items like 100% weight reduction baggies, Necros are cool, etc.
The best trio is IMO Shadowknight + Shaman + Bard.
Just my two copper. :)
You could play any trio and do well, but you really want to examine what your trio will be capable of managing down the line. I mean, a Rogue / Druid / Ranger combo can level up together, but they're not going to be able to handle the same content as a more complimentary trio. Also bear in mind that the higher in level you get, the longer fights are, which makes slows, damage mitgation in general, damage output, and mana efficiency far more important.
Convenience that you can get from other people (like ports) should take a backseat to core fundamentals.
Good luck!
Here's my advice for the Progression servers.
If you're primarily hoping to trio instead of forming a full group, here are some key classes to strongly consider.
Shaman: Having a Shaman around means you have slows. Turgur's at 51 (Kunark) is godlike, but even before that it makes Shaman the healer of choice for small groups. You get SoW, huge stat buffs, a pet to add more dps, dots, and with Canni the Shaman isn't as dependent on having Clarity effects as a Cleric or Shaman. Shaman > Cleric > Druid for small group content. You can buy a port. You can't buy slows for every fight. Oh sure, as expansions come out you could buy a melee character something like a Swarmcaller, but procs are unreliable and not nearly as good as just having a Shaman for reliable, extremely potent slows.
Your tank: With a Shaman (I strongly, strongly, strongly recommend someone play a Shaman), any melee class can tank. Obviously a Warrior is the sturdiest, but a Shadowknight, Monk, Paladin, or Ranger will all serve the purpose. You may want to consider a Shadowknight or a Ranger simply for the fact that they get snare effects. If you don't have an Innoruuk Shaman, you can't get the snare necklace clicky quest, and if your third person doesn't have snares, then you may have issues with runners in dungeons. My personal advice is Shadowknight, since you have feign death pulling, snare, good dps, and great aggro. About all you'll lack that a Warrior gets is Defensive Discipline, which is REALLY nice for farming nameds but not necessary.
Your third: Just about anything fits in well here. I'd strongly recommend a Bard, but any class fits in very well with a Shaman / Tank. Another melee means mobs die faster, an Enchanter will let you handle rough areas with ease, Wizards bring dps and ports, Druids bring dps, ports, and offhealing (the worst of the three healers, but still nice), Mages bring their awesome pets for consistent dps and summoned items like 100% weight reduction baggies, Necros are cool, etc.
The best trio is IMO Shadowknight + Shaman + Bard.
Just my two copper. :)
You could play any trio and do well, but you really want to examine what your trio will be capable of managing down the line. I mean, a Rogue / Druid / Ranger combo can level up together, but they're not going to be able to handle the same content as a more complimentary trio. Also bear in mind that the higher in level you get, the longer fights are, which makes slows, damage mitgation in general, damage output, and mana efficiency far more important.
Convenience that you can get from other people (like ports) should take a backseat to core fundamentals.
Good luck!
Hi, and welcome back. (When the servers are back up, anyway.)
I play on a normal server and have had a halfling druid as my main for 8 years and counting. Druids in EQ have their limitations - they can't melee like WoW druids - but overall they're extremely well-rounded and can be a lot of fun to play, if you're willing and able to put the time in. We can't heal as well as a cleric, and we can't nuke quite like a wizard, but there's more than one way to play, and druids are fairly adaptable to different play styles. Pretty good choice. Healing, snaring, transportation and nuking all in one...However, I would imagine that on a TLP server, the focus has gone back to "eww, druid...get me a cleric", and cleric mercenaries may not be unlocked for a few years. So that's a risk.
You're going to want a solid tank no matter what. At lower levels, I'm not sure that mage pets can replace a real tank. Warriors can mitigate damage better than paladins and SKs and they can dual wield. Paladins and SKs can heal themselves to some degree, and there are other things to consider (having stuns or feign death can be nice).
Make sure that you have a puller or at least some form of crowd control. I would not recommend a bard as a first character unless you really want a challenge. (Then the payoff is awesome.) Monks, shadowknights, necromancers can all feign death. Monks are a little faster at it because it's an ability and not a spell. Enchanters can be effective pullers, or at least help to clean up a bad pull. Besides having mind candy, they can also slow and debuff mobs, though perhaps not as well as a shaman.
I play on a normal server and have had a halfling druid as my main for 8 years and counting. Druids in EQ have their limitations - they can't melee like WoW druids - but overall they're extremely well-rounded and can be a lot of fun to play, if you're willing and able to put the time in. We can't heal as well as a cleric, and we can't nuke quite like a wizard, but there's more than one way to play, and druids are fairly adaptable to different play styles. Pretty good choice. Healing, snaring, transportation and nuking all in one...However, I would imagine that on a TLP server, the focus has gone back to "eww, druid...get me a cleric", and cleric mercenaries may not be unlocked for a few years. So that's a risk.
You're going to want a solid tank no matter what. At lower levels, I'm not sure that mage pets can replace a real tank. Warriors can mitigate damage better than paladins and SKs and they can dual wield. Paladins and SKs can heal themselves to some degree, and there are other things to consider (having stuns or feign death can be nice).
Make sure that you have a puller or at least some form of crowd control. I would not recommend a bard as a first character unless you really want a challenge. (Then the payoff is awesome.) Monks, shadowknights, necromancers can all feign death. Monks are a little faster at it because it's an ability and not a spell. Enchanters can be effective pullers, or at least help to clean up a bad pull. Besides having mind candy, they can also slow and debuff mobs, though perhaps not as well as a shaman.
I respectfully disagree and I believe most others will also.
Cleric > Druid > Shaman for pure healing power. Shaman gets an edge in group content because having the ability to slow means that they don't have to heal so much, so fast. But their actual healing spells don't approach what a cleric or a pimped out druid can do.
Cleric > Druid > Shaman for pure healing power. Shaman gets an edge in group content because having the ability to slow means that they don't have to heal so much, so fast. But their actual healing spells don't approach what a cleric or a pimped out druid can do.
Scholar
35 posts
Quote:
Healing, snaring, transportation and nuking all in one...However, I would imagine that on a TLP server, the focus has gone back to "eww, druid...get me a cleric",
Mmhm. Unfortunately it took Sony...
TANGENT! Am I the only person who gets bugged when people think Verant and Sony were two separate entities and that Sony absorbing Verant into itself was some kind of diabolical hostile takeover from a foreign company? The same people were at the helm for the most part even after "Verant" was basically just given a new name.
... back to the topic.
Unfortunately it took Sony several expansions to get Druids "right." Especially in Vanilla, a Druid basically just gets Cleric heals at a much slower rate, and obviously doesn't get Complete Heal and - at level cap - doesn't have as good of a regular heal. Druids really got the short end for a couple years. Now FORTUNATELY the progression servers will likely be bumping expansions every three or four months or so, so the good news is that Prog Druids don't have long to wait.
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Paladins and SKs can heal themselves to some degree, and there are other things to consider (having stuns or feign death can be nice).
Reliable stuns are another nice thing to have. If you don't have a Paladin then having a means of interrupting spells with your third character (as Shamans don't get stuns and I so... -thoroughly- endorse having a Shaman) is highly advisable. As luck has it, interrupting spells is something a Bard can also do! Though obviously having a Paladin ready to just go BAM and cast one of their quick stuns is fantabulous.
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I would not recommend a bard as a first character unless you really want a challenge.
To be fair it's not quite as true as it once was. Melody has made playing a Bard muuuuch much much much much easier.
Though yes, something like Paladin / Enchanter / Druid works very well too, for reasons you mentioned. Enchanter slows aren't quite as good, but still good.
Scholar
35 posts
djtierta wrote:
I respectfully disagree and I believe most others will also.
I respectfully think very, very, very..... VERY few people would argue that a Shaman isn't by leaps and bounds the superior choice for a healer in a small group. And you even stated why that's a fact. In fact if you hadn't just said it I'd have laughed if someone said "yeah some people think Shamans aren't fifty billion times better than the other healers for small groups."
But you apparently do think so, so let's break it down.
Quote:
Shaman gets an edge in group content because having the ability to slow means that they don't have to heal so much, so fast. But their actual healing spells don't approach what a cleric or a pimped out druid can do.
That's a non-argument. It's irrelevant just comparing static heal amounts. Slow is ungodly powerful in EverQuest, so much so that it's a borderline gamebreaker. Turgur's alone essentially cuts mob damage output to a quarter.
Let me repeat that, for it bears repeating.
Turgur's Insects reduces non-casting mob dps by seventy five percent.
75%.
Your tank - with a Shaman healer - takes 25% as much damage. This also means that spike damage from a "bad round" of hits from the mob is far more easily managed since you have a muuuuuch larger gap of time between attacks from the mob. This ALSO means that you just applied a x4 efficiency modifier to your healer's mana pool, less the cost of the slow itself.
That. Is. Staggering.
That is huge. Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge.
Also it's worth mentioning that often times, Druids and Shamans (especially in earlier content) get the same heals at the same levels. Superior Healing is 51 for both Druids -and- Shamans, for example. Greater Healing is 29 for both Druids in Shamans. etc.
A Druid healer is basically a Shaman healer without slows, and that's a big... big... big difference. Slows are what make a Shaman blow even a Cleric waaaay out of the water in healing if they're the only healer. And comparing healer efficiency without slows taken into account makes absolutely no logical sense.
Now.
If you have an Enchanter for slows, then it'd be acceptable to bring a Druid or Cleric into the picture.
No trio should be without slows. Ever. It's the #1 first requirement a smart player will make sure they have when they're setting up a static group. With slow you can even have a "non-tank" like a Ranger tank.
7 posts
So here's what I've taken away as advice so far:
Since we will ideally be forming full groups, our best 3 roles are tank + puller + healer (favoring a puller over a buffer).
For a player who prefers healing to damage, choose either a cleric or a shammy. Druids are alright at healing, but not exceptional.
A bard will probably be more useful than an enchanter because of the ability to easily pull along with buffing.
With a dedicated healer, there isn't a significant advantage to any particular tank.
[edit] Slows will make the XP come much faster. [ / edit]
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My now is how to maximize the buffs which our trio will be able to cover. My experiences in WoW taught me the importance of stacking buffs--the homogenization is one of the reasons why I lost interest. Is there any resource available which would let me map out the various buff / debuff combinations of classes? At a minimum, I want to have run speed and mana regen covered. My issue at this point is I'm not really familiar with the names of the abilities / skills / songs / spells that I would be looking for.
[edit] Sorry for what might be another silly question, but I've run out of luck with my searches. Are religions still important? On the TLP servers, are Evils allowed to group with Neutrals? My only experience was playing on a server where this type of interaction was blocked. I thought I'd read somewhere that religions were out of the game, but I'm as likely mistaken as correct. [ / edit]
Thanks a lot for the help so far!
Edited, May 10th 2011 12:06pm by JMarl
Edited, May 10th 2011 12:09pm by JMarl
Since we will ideally be forming full groups, our best 3 roles are tank + puller + healer (favoring a puller over a buffer).
For a player who prefers healing to damage, choose either a cleric or a shammy. Druids are alright at healing, but not exceptional.
A bard will probably be more useful than an enchanter because of the ability to easily pull along with buffing.
With a dedicated healer, there isn't a significant advantage to any particular tank.
[edit] Slows will make the XP come much faster. [ / edit]
-------------
My now is how to maximize the buffs which our trio will be able to cover. My experiences in WoW taught me the importance of stacking buffs--the homogenization is one of the reasons why I lost interest. Is there any resource available which would let me map out the various buff / debuff combinations of classes? At a minimum, I want to have run speed and mana regen covered. My issue at this point is I'm not really familiar with the names of the abilities / skills / songs / spells that I would be looking for.
[edit] Sorry for what might be another silly question, but I've run out of luck with my searches. Are religions still important? On the TLP servers, are Evils allowed to group with Neutrals? My only experience was playing on a server where this type of interaction was blocked. I thought I'd read somewhere that religions were out of the game, but I'm as likely mistaken as correct. [ / edit]
Thanks a lot for the help so far!
Edited, May 10th 2011 12:06pm by JMarl
Edited, May 10th 2011 12:09pm by JMarl
Scholar
35 posts
JMarl wrote:
So here's what I've taken away as advice so far:
Since we will ideally be forming full groups, our best 3 roles are tank + puller + healer (favoring a puller over a buffer).
Since we will ideally be forming full groups, our best 3 roles are tank + puller + healer (favoring a puller over a buffer).
If your tank is a Shadowknight (or a Monk, or in outdoors zones a Ranger) they can all serve as the puller. Also in a lot of areas you can just have anyone with root cast it on a mob and have one less to deal with for quite a while. The only time dedicated pullers became critical is in densely packed areas, and while this is important, many classes can fill the role.
SKs, Monks, Necros (all because of Feign Death) can pull. Bards, Enchanters, Clerics, Paladins can pull with various kinds of Lull to make mobs passive, and in outdoor zones Rangers and Druids can pull with their version of Lull.
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For a player who prefers healing to damage, choose either a cleric or a shammy.
Clerics bring fantastic group-wide heals later, which is nice. But I would still strongly, immensely strongly recommend that if you don't take a Shaman, then by default you must take an Enchanter. Enchanter slows aren't quite as good (but their haste is better), but they suffice.
Slows. Are. Godlike.
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A bard will probably be more useful than an enchanter because of the ability to easily pull along with buffing.
As mentioned before Enchanters can also pull very well.
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With a dedicated healer, there isn't a significant advantage to any particular tank.
Shadowknights bring a lot of advantages that Warriors don't have, ranging from Feign Death pulling, to snare, to better snap aggro, to managing threat on multiple targets.
Paladins have lower dps than Warriors or Shadowknights (unless you're fighting Undead), but are sturdy as hell, get group heals later, can pull with the Lull line, etc.
Here's your basic class role checklist. This isn't an exhaustive list, it's just off the top of my head.
Warrior: Sturdiest Tank & Good DPS
Shadowknight: Tank & Good DPS & Snare & FD Pulling & Best Aggro
Paladin: Tank & Decent DPS & Stuns & Lull Pulling
Ranger: Good DPS & Tank if slows are available & Tracking & Snare & Outdoor Pulling
Monk: Huge DPS & Two Kinds of Pulling & Tank if slows are available... and a few other tricks
Bard: ... too many to list. Their haste isn't huge but it stacks with other forms of spell haste, for example. Bards can do almost everything in the game outside of healing. If slows are available a Bard can even tank a surprising amount of stuff. Amazing puller. Fantastic buffer. etc. Bards are supremely flexible and stack well with ANY group composition.
Rogue: Huge DPS & Lockpicking
Cleric: Best Healing & Pulling With Lull & Best HP / AC Buffs & Stuns
Druid: Moderate Healing & Moderate DPS & Ports & Snare & Outdoor Pulling
Shaman: Moderate Healing & Moderate DPS & Best Stat Buffs & Slow & Haste
Wizard: Burst DPS & Ports & Stuns
Magician: Good Sustained DPS & Summoned Items
Enchanter: Best Haste & Decent Slow & Mez & Charm & Clarity Line & Lull Pulling & Stuns (effectively)
Necro: Good Sustained DPS & Feign Death Pulling & Snare
You want to have three things.
#1: Slow.
#2: Someone that can tank. With slow in the equation this opens up a lot of options.
#3: Healing.
If you can fill those three requirements with two characters (and you can, easily), pick a third character that brings anything else useful to the table.
Scholar
35 posts
Quote:
Are religions still important?
Religion affects two things on TLP. Well, three, but one's kind of a non-issue.
First, it affects faction. Obviously. But even a Dark Elf Necromancer can roam many parts of Freeport.
Second, it affects if you can equip deity-specific gear. There's currently very nice deity-specific Idols that go into your (I think) Ranged slot. Later (PoP? I forget) armor that's VERY nice for non-raiders becomes available, crafted by players. While there is a non-deity version of it, it's also not nearly as good. While it can be a pain finding the crafter with the right deity to make the racial / deity armor, it's extremely good for its era and isn't all that expensive. And there are other examples of deity-specific gear.
In short, if you can suck up a faction hit (and boost, depending) from choosing a deity instead of being Agnostic, do so. The gear you can get as the game goes along will make you glad you did. The only class I'd even consider making Agnostic is an Enchanter, but frankly speaking they get faction-buff spells, illusions, and you can always just grind out a little faction if you must. Even Enchanters should have a deity imo.
Keep in mind that racial / deity based faction becomes more or less irrelevant once the game hits Luclin. And even in Velious practically the only deity choices that matter are Rallos Zek and Veeshan.
And yes, any race can group with any race.
The third thing faction affects is when Plane of Growth opens. Tunare worshippers don't go there. For whatever reason they decided to make PoG the ONE Plane where faction hits are handed out. Still, while it's a nifty zone, it's only one zone, and only applicable to raiders.
Edited, May 10th 2011 12:26pm by MegidoFlare
4 posts
If your going to play on the TLP server, there will be plenty of people to group with. So it's a great opportunity for you all to play the class that has the job that appeals the most to you in the long run. I'm sure there will be plenty of pullers, healers, tanks, slowers what ever you need that would appreciate the group. It might take some patience sometimes but its well worth it. A well rounded group of 6 is a lot of fun and the fastest way to level.
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