So I left EQ when WoW came out, all my friends and coworkers switched. WoW is done for me now, I'm sick of it and honestly never liked it as much as EQ. I'm currently running a bit of Rift but it's just the same solo crap as WoW. I'm looking for the old needing a group thing, not just a glorified FPS. I'm waxing nostalgic for lavastorm and or hill and the chessboard. I was reading something about the fippy darkpaw server and some old-school stuff coming online? Is that working out? Will I eventually be standing in LOIO making buff stations to get my guild's name out? or is it all PoK and luclin now? Is there a population large enough that levelling is even possible without help/powerlevelling? Have bards changed in the last 8 or 9 years (lol) chanters? THat's what I played. Is Molto Espresvito still active?
What would I need to come back? The sticky said seeds of destruction but that's 3 years out is that what I need to get? What else?
TY.
Edited, May 10th 2011 1:30am by syrianx
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how to come back, and is it there still?Follow
Ummmm... Just get all the expansions for one low price, $40 iirc and your set to go anywhere. EQ is not the same game as it was 8 or 9 yrs ago. It has grown and expanded in just about every way it could.
If youve been out for 8-9 yrs then you are coming back to a totally different EQ than then. The graphics, the abilities of classes, lvl caps, mobs, armor, weapons, new zones, new quests, and the list goes on.
If youve been out for 8-9 yrs then you are coming back to a totally different EQ than then. The graphics, the abilities of classes, lvl caps, mobs, armor, weapons, new zones, new quests, and the list goes on.
7 posts
Thanks for the reply. What I'm looking for is, is this still a group-centric game? Are the servers actually reasonably populated or just a barren wasteland? After that, are classes functionally different from what they were when Planes of Power just came out (when I left)? Are bards still twisting, are chanters still needed or did the game change to Tank/Heal/DPS like everyone else?
I'm really looking at the "progression servers", I'd be coming back because the game really meant a lot to me (lame I know) long before Luclin even and I'd like to try and regain that feeling I had when this was the first MMO oronline game of any kind I had ever played. Back when EQ came outit was a flahback to my tabletop D&D days, now I want a flashback to my EQ days, when I still had dialup and it still mattered that you didn't suck in a group because if you sucked people would remember and it mattered.
Re your post, where do you get all for one low price? SOE is offline, is there somewhere in particular i should look?
I'm really looking at the "progression servers", I'd be coming back because the game really meant a lot to me (lame I know) long before Luclin even and I'd like to try and regain that feeling I had when this was the first MMO oronline game of any kind I had ever played. Back when EQ came outit was a flahback to my tabletop D&D days, now I want a flashback to my EQ days, when I still had dialup and it still mattered that you didn't suck in a group because if you sucked people would remember and it mattered.
Re your post, where do you get all for one low price? SOE is offline, is there somewhere in particular i should look?
syrianx wrote:
Re your post, where do you get all for one low price? SOE is offline, is there somewhere in particular i should look?
Direct2drive and Amazon are still selling House of Thule (the last expansion which includes all others )for $19.99.
At the risk of stating the obvious though, you will not be able to do anything until Sony Online comes back up again anyway. All you are really buying either from them or SOE is a key, which will allow you to download the game - from SOE !!
9. ..... You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction)any Game characters, items, coin or copyrighted material.
Scholar
24 posts
Hi Syrianx,
I was in your shoes just a few months ago. I quit EQ just about when PoP came out. Some 6 months ago I returned for half a year (and am pausing for work reasons now ... probably to be back in 2-3 weeks). So I know what lies ahead of you by my very own and very fresh experience.
The game has not changed that drastically in many ways. It is safe to say that it is much more convenient to play nowadays. The game mechanics have basically remained tha same. With a merc (any maybe with a boxed character plus merc) you are greatly set up to do whatever you want to level up and grind AAs and so on and so forth. However, don't expect to get many groups until well in the 70ies. I found it extremly easy to level and it was very entertaining - a bit lonely sometimes maybe. Starting in the 70ies you can get groups in the hot zones ... Apparently it is very easy to gear up so that you are faaaar too powerful for "yours and my" EQ-world in Kunark and Velious (especially with mercs). I found it very funny and entertaining to easily kill the stuff that used to take a full group :-).
What I definitly missed, is the travelling experience. It used to be exciting to travel to another area in Norrath. But that is not the case anymore - you can reach basically any area without effort. Also what I miss is corpse recoveries. Nowadays when you day you respawn with all your gear - of course that is more convenient, but also it is less exciting.
Depending on what you expect from EQ I would suggest you start out with your old toon, gear up in bazaar, get a merc and experience todays EQ. It will be a new experience. A progression server (which I tried for a while too) is sort of slow compared to modern EQ ... :-)
I was in your shoes just a few months ago. I quit EQ just about when PoP came out. Some 6 months ago I returned for half a year (and am pausing for work reasons now ... probably to be back in 2-3 weeks). So I know what lies ahead of you by my very own and very fresh experience.
The game has not changed that drastically in many ways. It is safe to say that it is much more convenient to play nowadays. The game mechanics have basically remained tha same. With a merc (any maybe with a boxed character plus merc) you are greatly set up to do whatever you want to level up and grind AAs and so on and so forth. However, don't expect to get many groups until well in the 70ies. I found it extremly easy to level and it was very entertaining - a bit lonely sometimes maybe. Starting in the 70ies you can get groups in the hot zones ... Apparently it is very easy to gear up so that you are faaaar too powerful for "yours and my" EQ-world in Kunark and Velious (especially with mercs). I found it very funny and entertaining to easily kill the stuff that used to take a full group :-).
What I definitly missed, is the travelling experience. It used to be exciting to travel to another area in Norrath. But that is not the case anymore - you can reach basically any area without effort. Also what I miss is corpse recoveries. Nowadays when you day you respawn with all your gear - of course that is more convenient, but also it is less exciting.
Depending on what you expect from EQ I would suggest you start out with your old toon, gear up in bazaar, get a merc and experience todays EQ. It will be a new experience. A progression server (which I tried for a while too) is sort of slow compared to modern EQ ... :-)
Scholar
35 posts
Quote:
What I definitly missed, is the travelling experience. It used to be exciting to travel to another area in Norrath.
Let's be fair. It was exciting to run from Qeynos to Freeport for the first time. Or maybe the tenth. But when you've done it fifty thousand times it kind of loses its appeal and becomes nothing more than a pointless annoyance. You want to kill monsters and explore -new- areas, not run through the zones you've run through so many times before. When the Nexus teleports and then the PoP stones were introduced, I remember clearly that the general playerbase reaction was not "awwww this sucks", it was more along the lines of "WOOHOO!"
And more to the point, IF you prefer running everywhere (or sending /tells to annoyed Wizards and Druids until you find one that'll port you semi-close), you can still do that. If you don't want to use the portal stones, then nothing is forcing you to use them. If the experience of running across the world is more enjoyable to you, then why don't you just run instead of using the stones?
Now and again I see someone mention something like what you said, and I always wonder... "then why are you making use of a completely optional feature?"
Quote:
Also what I miss is corpse recoveries.
Play on an emu server that has corpse runs for a month or so and then come back and tell me corpse runs were a good thing. ;) I mean, it's possible you'll still have that nostalgic opinion, but I -sincerely- doubt it.
While they did add a certain layer of danger to the game, they were only really viable in vanilla EverQuest where most people had gear that was more or less easily replaceable. As the game became focused around items that took hours (or days, or weeks, or in the cases of stuff like epics, months) to complete, the idea that under any circumstances those items could just be destroyed became untenable.
That and back in Kunark, a lot of people were still playing on dialup. Disconnects were comparatively frequent. You could die to bugs and end up with a corpse underneath the world. I once ended up with one under the sea (like... literally under it) in OOT and not even a Necromancer could summon it. I had to get a GM (which took two days) to do it for me. Had the GM never responded, all of my loot would have just gone *poof*.
Begging for help to get your corpse back wasn't fun, and neither was sitting on my butt at the zone line waiting for a Necro to show up so I could pay them 100 plat (or more) to summon my corpse, whether because I was on a class that didn't have the appropriate invis, or my corpse was in an unsafe place, or because monsters saw through invis. I'd already lost a ton of experience for daring to explore, now I was losing an hour of playtime, and I was about to have to pay for it in platinum.
No one pugged in Sebilis or Droga or Nurga or Chardok. In years of playing I never saw half the zones in Kunark or Velious or Luclin (or at least not past the zone line camps) without a guild group. Unless you were in a guild group (for various reasons) you were generally limited to xp'ing in outdoor zones or in certain dungeons close to the zone. Groups in Velketor's stayed right at the zone line. The furthest you went into Karnor's in a pug was LCY or RCY. etc, etc.
If it wasn't feasible to reach the spot where your group is / was and get back out again without your gear, solo, generally speaking you RARELY saw pug groups fighting there. Sure, there were exceptions, but the simple fact is that because of corpse runs (on top of the huge death penalty), people were legitimately disinclined to explore or take risks. Sure, now and again you'd get a pug that wanted to camp Pawbuster / Warlord / Cellblock, but that was by far the rarity, and if things went sideways for whatever reason you were pretty much boned.
Corpse runs were a bad thing.
And finally corpse runs unfairly penalized certain classes more than others. CR as a Warrior? Good luck.
Just my two copper.
Scholar
24 posts
Fair enough to have different opinions :-). But you miss the point, to be honest. What I dicovered when re-joining EQ is that nowadays you can just go into a place, venture as deep into a dungeon as you want, and if you die - oh well - poooof - here you go again at your bind spot. I liked it more about EQ when dying included a challenging corpse recovery. And YES, for some classes this can be very tough - but aren't we lucky to have diversity in EQ-classes :-). But obviously also this point has been changed for the convenience of players. Get me right: It is fine as it is, just not as challenging as it was in the past. It used to be an absolute necessity to be well known to expert corpse recoverers (like rogues, necros, monks). It's not like that anymore.
And you reasoning with respect to travelling also somehow misses the point. It is true: Whoever wants may still run nowadays. But since nobody does the world has lost some feeling and individuality. Nowadays you just PoK-port yourself. Of course that is -again- more convenient, but it makes druids and wizzy less important than in the older days.
And that's what I am trying to say. The game used to be less convenient on the one hand and more challenging on the other (two sides of the same coin) 8 years ago. And from what the original starter of this posting he is looking for old-school fun ...
And you reasoning with respect to travelling also somehow misses the point. It is true: Whoever wants may still run nowadays. But since nobody does the world has lost some feeling and individuality. Nowadays you just PoK-port yourself. Of course that is -again- more convenient, but it makes druids and wizzy less important than in the older days.
And that's what I am trying to say. The game used to be less convenient on the one hand and more challenging on the other (two sides of the same coin) 8 years ago. And from what the original starter of this posting he is looking for old-school fun ...
Scholar
35 posts
Gonzoman wrote:
I liked it more about EQ when dying included a challenging corpse recovery.
Unfortunately in many (not all, but maaaaany) cases "challenging" meant "impossible unless you get an entire group or a higher level (if you're low level) to fight down to your body or you sit around waiting for a Necro or SK to summon your corpse." In either case there's no challenge involved, just a lot of time begging others to help.
Sure, if you died in the middle of Dreadlands you could make the case that it could be a challenging corpse run.
But in many, many, many cases it's simply a fact that you have zero, zero, zero chance of getting your loot back yourself... in which case you're relying entirely on others, eliminating any challenge from the event at all. I performed the favor for many friends, and I had the favor returned many times, but ultimately it was just a huge pain in the *** for everyone involved.
And as mentioned, it was a huge noose strangling the neck of the playerbase. No one wanted to explore, because the penalty for death and the corpse run involved was too huge.
Most of an entire guild AND a few other players quit EverQuest for good around the time PoFear was opened because the break (as we would all come to realize was fairly common for that era) failed. It was as far as I know the most powerful guild on the server at the time. Favors were called in and an impromptu rescue raid made up of some volunteers and naked casters from the guild attempted to break Fear again. That too met with a grisly round of deaths. At that point there were a plethora of corpses sitting near the port-in of Plane of Fear.
From what I recall (I was one of the volunteers) some people managed to get in, get their gear, and get the hell out, but most didn't and ate death after death after death.
Dozens of bodies rotted, each one representing months of time invested.
A lot of people quit. A lot.
I lost my corpse and considered quitting.
It wasn't fun. It wasn't challenging. It just sucked.
Corpse runs were and are a bad, bad, bad, bad thing.
Quote:
Get me right: It is fine as it is, just not as challenging as it was in the past. It used to be an absolute necessity to be well known to expert corpse recoverers (like rogues, necros, monks). It's not like that anymore.
Get me right. "Challenge" has nothing to do with the scenario you just described.
Quote:
Nowadays you just PoK-port yourself. Of course that is -again- more convenient, but it makes druids and wizzy less important than in the older days.
Having played both a Druid and a Wizard I was actually glad for that change. The money you made off teleports was a pittance compared to what you could farm by the time PoK was out, and I was highly pleased to realize I no longer had to be /anon 24 / 7 to avoid getting constant spams of "i need tele" "hey u busy" "tele now 4 plat" and crap like that.
Quote:
The game used to be less convenient on the one hand and more challenging on the other (two sides of the same coin)
As I argued before, I don't really think corpse runs had anything to do with "challenge" a lot of the time. The more appropriate word is "annoying." There was no difficulty in a corpse run. You could either do it (in which case it was just a time sink without risk), or you couldn't do it alone (in which case it was a time sink for both you and others you begged for help)... OR it was just flat out impossible in a few rare circumstances (like Plane of Fear early on.)
I'm not missing the point at all. Corpse runs sucked.
Hard.
There was no challenge involved. There was only a time sink.
Now if you want to make the argument that people needing other people was a good thing that came out of corpse runs, then I'm willing to admit that, although imo the downsides and negative effects on the playerbase behavior as a whole and the general counter-incentive to explore or group anywhere but Lake of Ill Omen or Velketor zoneline is ample evidence for an argument that... again... corpse runs sucked.
Edited, May 10th 2011 10:09am by MegidoFlare
For those that like corpse runs there is not reason that you cannot still have the "thrill", each time you die... put all your gear in your inventory and run back to the spot where you died, drag your corpse to the zone line, send tells to get a cleric to give you a Rez and only then, don the gear that you used to wear. If you cannot do any of that... and or cannot recover your corpse... destroy everything you are wearing and all the items in your inventory.
See... you CAN be having "fun" when you die... you just have to impose the rule on yourself to have "Fun"...
The very fact that you are not re-imposing the rule on yourself demonstrates that it was a bad rule.
Others have posted here about their guilds where they impose rules on their behavior and limit the things they allow to make the game more interesting and challenging to themselves just as you could impose the corpse run rule on yourself to make the game more fun for you...
While playing WoW I get to do corpse runs, sometimes repeatedly until I can extricate myself from some particularly nasty spot... and just as I did not find these corpse runs fun in EQ, I don't particularly find them fun in WoW either.
See... you CAN be having "fun" when you die... you just have to impose the rule on yourself to have "Fun"...
The very fact that you are not re-imposing the rule on yourself demonstrates that it was a bad rule.
Others have posted here about their guilds where they impose rules on their behavior and limit the things they allow to make the game more interesting and challenging to themselves just as you could impose the corpse run rule on yourself to make the game more fun for you...
While playing WoW I get to do corpse runs, sometimes repeatedly until I can extricate myself from some particularly nasty spot... and just as I did not find these corpse runs fun in EQ, I don't particularly find them fun in WoW either.
MegidoFlare wrote:
And as mentioned, it was a huge noose strangling the neck of the playerbase. No one wanted to explore, because the penalty for death and the corpse run involved was too huge.
I guess we were playing radically different games named "Everquest" back in the day.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Naked corpse runs sucked in a lot of ways. You could run around and have something see through your invis and die - again - and start all over. Sure.
But what's missing is the sense of risk. You can go out there, train the entire zone, get pummeled into tiny specks of dirt, and then get up and do it again and again, just to try to get to a point in the zone to hail a mob or get a task update, or what have you. Then you could use your vet AA and lose zero XP, or use a 100% AA rez if you're a cleric, or whatever else.
When you have certain games that take it another step and make it so you're invulnerable while you run to somewhere near your corpse, and the little jog takes you no more than 3 minutes, AND you lose no XP, well guess what? I'm going to run all over the place and it won't matter how many times I die. It won't matter how good or bad I am at exploring a zone, because there's no challenge. Without any real punishment, the reward feels cheap.
Corpse runs allowed for a stronger game design and smarter players who took the time to come up with unique tactics for corpse retrieval. Failure was frustrating, but getting it right added a layer of fun for a lot of us.
But what's missing is the sense of risk. You can go out there, train the entire zone, get pummeled into tiny specks of dirt, and then get up and do it again and again, just to try to get to a point in the zone to hail a mob or get a task update, or what have you. Then you could use your vet AA and lose zero XP, or use a 100% AA rez if you're a cleric, or whatever else.
When you have certain games that take it another step and make it so you're invulnerable while you run to somewhere near your corpse, and the little jog takes you no more than 3 minutes, AND you lose no XP, well guess what? I'm going to run all over the place and it won't matter how many times I die. It won't matter how good or bad I am at exploring a zone, because there's no challenge. Without any real punishment, the reward feels cheap.
Corpse runs allowed for a stronger game design and smarter players who took the time to come up with unique tactics for corpse retrieval. Failure was frustrating, but getting it right added a layer of fun for a lot of us.
12 posts
Honestly, some of the best times I had in EQ were during naked CR's! Yes they sucked so bad, but it made you play smarter and more carefully. It never once stopped me or any of my friends from exploring something new.
The trio I played in went on quite a few CR's, some nasty ones like when we were pulling stuff into Trak's lair when he spawned on top of us. We always had a great time, and met many kind people along the way to help drag corpses or offer ports.. whatever.
I kinda miss CR's in the newer games. There's no real deterrent to playing like an idiot.
The trio I played in went on quite a few CR's, some nasty ones like when we were pulling stuff into Trak's lair when he spawned on top of us. We always had a great time, and met many kind people along the way to help drag corpses or offer ports.. whatever.
I kinda miss CR's in the newer games. There's no real deterrent to playing like an idiot.
Improving travel wasn't a bad idea. The implemenation of PoK was just clunky is all, and had unintended consequences such as making ghost towns of pretty much all the developed with lore cities in the game. If they had put the PoK stones inside the cities only, with some NPC porters (similar to the guild hall gnome or the dark elf in tranquility that takes you to Hate) in PoK for a few select areas that would have been a better fit with the immersiveness of the game.
This went hand-in-hand with the faction minimizing of the game --again not a bad idea in some respects, but some immersiveness was lost. Factions have been about vendor-gear grinds since OoW, which has a place, but it would be nice to want to be on good (or bad) terms with various old factions for valid reasons in the current game.
You read about how much certain races hate each other on the character creation screen yet see more mingling than warfare at this point in the game.
Edit: the piece I forgot to say about travel... If the campfire mechanic had been in the game much earlier, and 2 in the group have the ability to summon members in from across the world, you don't need nearly as many travel options as PoK put in.
Edited, May 10th 2011 7:50pm by snailish
This went hand-in-hand with the faction minimizing of the game --again not a bad idea in some respects, but some immersiveness was lost. Factions have been about vendor-gear grinds since OoW, which has a place, but it would be nice to want to be on good (or bad) terms with various old factions for valid reasons in the current game.
You read about how much certain races hate each other on the character creation screen yet see more mingling than warfare at this point in the game.
Edit: the piece I forgot to say about travel... If the campfire mechanic had been in the game much earlier, and 2 in the group have the ability to summon members in from across the world, you don't need nearly as many travel options as PoK put in.
Edited, May 10th 2011 7:50pm by snailish
7 posts
Jophiel wrote:
MegidoFlare wrote:
And as mentioned, it was a huge noose strangling the neck of the playerbase. No one wanted to explore, because the penalty for death and the corpse run involved was too huge.
I guess we were playing radically different games named "Everquest" back in the day.
QFT. There was no lack of exploration back then at all.
I think Meg is missing Gonzo's point. While nobody in their right mind enjoyed the corpse runs themselves (I especially hated making the run back to LOIO), the CRs did make the rest of the game more exciting, because you really didn't want to die. So every chance you took you thought about before taking it, and you got a bit of adrenaline going when things started getting close. Compare that to something like WoW where you look at a "tough" situation and you just run in and die a few times until the RNG likes you. There's no worry about dying at all, and that takes a lot of the fun away. CR's also fed the grouping and 'reputation' aspects of the game. You remembered bad players and you made damn sure you didn't get listed as one, you were polite(r) and didn't leave a group hanging or you wouldn't get more groups. The CR mechanic along with the exp loss really affected more than just the direct effect of death.
Similarly with travel. We'll all take the short way because it's easier when you're trying to achieve something, but the travel time when required did add something. The effect isn't as profound as the death/CR on the game, but it's still there. I honestly wasn't happy when the boats were pulled for the teleporter guys. One of my stronger memories of the game was a friend and I got in a good pug for a couple of hours and none of us had been to Kunark yet, so we all decided to run from Quenyos all the way to butcherblock and took the Maiden's voyage ad did our first grinding in LOIO. The journey there was done at night and it was pretty exciting, an adventure in and of itself. It took hours. None of it would have happened if we could have ported there easily, we just would have ported. Sure we ended up enjoying the same content (LOIO) but the journey there would have been lost to us.
4 posts
As a monk I found some corpse runs to be vary challenging. Not for my own corpse but for my friends and guild mates. Yeah dieing sucked, that's the whole idea. To be able to get someones corpse out of a bad spot was just as rewarding as any other aspect of the game. Now I can understand why people that don't have a lot of friends or a friendly guild and like to solo a lot might not like corpse runs. But there is a lot of other games they could play that are a lot of fun for the solo player and they only have to pay for one account to solo. Why try to make this game like all the others. Lets just say this game is not for everyone, and that's what makes it so great for the people that only play for the grouping. For people that want to make this game easier, please just go play the other 3000 mmorpg's and leave this one alone.
To Syrianx, if your still watching this thread: I just started playing on the Flippy Darkpaw progression server a couple months. They voted not to have corpse runs, but we still have trains and there's a little bit of feeling of some risk, but yeah like other games it's no real big deal to die anymore, unless you want to do a pretend corpse run like someone suggested. In which case I would be happy to get your corpse for you. :)
Its about as close as you can get to the good old days of EQ. I have been having a blast with all the people that have come back to try and relive those days like me. The graphics suck but I don't care. You can't find game mechanics like this anywhere else. People will even start grouping at level one because its faster experience. It's funny when some people that try it don't understand the whole grouping thing and just go back to there solo game, they just don't know what there missing out on. Tho rogues and monks are not needed for corpse runs anymore at least druids and wizards are needed again for travel. I have been making a lot of druid friends and usually have no problem getting a ride. If you don't like that run from Qeynos to Freeport, like all other aspects of the game, it pays not to be socially challenged. If it wasn't for the progression server I probably wouldn't recommend coming back because the only difference now from newer games is the raiding. In my opinion it is still one of the best raiding games out there.
I think it's the forced socializing that makes this game so great. It weeds out the rude people that don't play well with others and leaves behind friendly like minded people. Even when they fight over a camp spot there usually more polite then what I have seen in other game.
So once SoE gets there servers running again. I recommend going to amazon.com were you can buy the latest expansion for $20, which will bring everything up to date. Start a toon on one of the progression severs. Go out to the newbie area, and ask the other level ones if they want to group. And let the adventure start once again.
To Syrianx, if your still watching this thread: I just started playing on the Flippy Darkpaw progression server a couple months. They voted not to have corpse runs, but we still have trains and there's a little bit of feeling of some risk, but yeah like other games it's no real big deal to die anymore, unless you want to do a pretend corpse run like someone suggested. In which case I would be happy to get your corpse for you. :)
Its about as close as you can get to the good old days of EQ. I have been having a blast with all the people that have come back to try and relive those days like me. The graphics suck but I don't care. You can't find game mechanics like this anywhere else. People will even start grouping at level one because its faster experience. It's funny when some people that try it don't understand the whole grouping thing and just go back to there solo game, they just don't know what there missing out on. Tho rogues and monks are not needed for corpse runs anymore at least druids and wizards are needed again for travel. I have been making a lot of druid friends and usually have no problem getting a ride. If you don't like that run from Qeynos to Freeport, like all other aspects of the game, it pays not to be socially challenged. If it wasn't for the progression server I probably wouldn't recommend coming back because the only difference now from newer games is the raiding. In my opinion it is still one of the best raiding games out there.
I think it's the forced socializing that makes this game so great. It weeds out the rude people that don't play well with others and leaves behind friendly like minded people. Even when they fight over a camp spot there usually more polite then what I have seen in other game.
So once SoE gets there servers running again. I recommend going to amazon.com were you can buy the latest expansion for $20, which will bring everything up to date. Start a toon on one of the progression severs. Go out to the newbie area, and ask the other level ones if they want to group. And let the adventure start once again.
Back to the OP.
What you liked in the game is still around. However the reality is on the non TLP servers getting a group can be a challenge. If you have not deleted characters you will have them available when you renew your subscription. Or you can start over.
If you want to start from level one you may like joining a progression server, Fippy Darkpaw or Vulak Aerr. If you join another server leveling will be fast with the hot zones, grouping there may be possible, and you can hire your toons mercenaries to add to your chances of survival.
To find out about changes, look at the sticky threads, read them at least twice, and ponder. Don't pay any attention to the hijackers talking about corpse runs.
What you liked in the game is still around. However the reality is on the non TLP servers getting a group can be a challenge. If you have not deleted characters you will have them available when you renew your subscription. Or you can start over.
If you want to start from level one you may like joining a progression server, Fippy Darkpaw or Vulak Aerr. If you join another server leveling will be fast with the hot zones, grouping there may be possible, and you can hire your toons mercenaries to add to your chances of survival.
To find out about changes, look at the sticky threads, read them at least twice, and ponder. Don't pay any attention to the hijackers talking about corpse runs.
Scholar
24 posts
MegidoFlare wrote:
From what I recall (I was one of the volunteers) some people managed to get in, get their gear, and get the hell out, but most didn't and ate death after death after death.
Dozens of bodies rotted, each one representing months of time invested.
It wasn't fun. It wasn't challenging. It just sucked.
Corpse runs were and are a bad, bad, bad, bad thing.
Get me right. "Challenge" has nothing to do with the scenario you just described.
Dozens of bodies rotted, each one representing months of time invested.
It wasn't fun. It wasn't challenging. It just sucked.
Corpse runs were and are a bad, bad, bad, bad thing.
Get me right. "Challenge" has nothing to do with the scenario you just described.
Let me put it this way: The idea behind a "Plane" such as PoF was: If you can't break in here you shouldn't go here. If you still do you get your *** whooped. In EQ-Lore Cazic Thule was the most ub0r-kick-***-mob. And I remember well how tough the break-ins were. You had to be SURE that you have the right RAID-force on board for that (not just a group or 2). Apparently the folks you described were not the right people to do so. "EQ in the old days" always had challenges that were too big for most players. And such challenges involved that dying had significant downsides. Also -if I remember correctly- there used to be an explicit warning before entering PoF or PoH. The upside of this was that you would STARE at those toons equipped with PoF-gear or PoH-gear and yourself would be really proud of yourself if you had such gear!
Being a monk by heart (always was - always will be) naked-CRs themselves were fun to me. But I can see that for many classes CRs were nasty. Insofar I can only second what some other people in this tread wrote: The downsides of dying were more significant in the older days. That made the way to play different than todays way to play. And this "older way" of playing EQ some people may miss (the old-schoolers probably) and some may not.
Edited, May 12th 2011 4:08am by Gonzoman
1 post
syrianx wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
MegidoFlare wrote:
And as mentioned, it was a huge noose strangling the neck of the playerbase. No one wanted to explore, because the penalty for death and the corpse run involved was too huge.
I guess we were playing radically different games named "Everquest" back in the day.
QFT. There was no lack of exploration back then at all.
I think Meg is missing Gonzo's point. While nobody in their right mind enjoyed the corpse runs themselves (I especially hated making the run back to LOIO), the CRs did make the rest of the game more exciting, because you really didn't want to die. So every chance you took you thought about before taking it, and you got a bit of adrenaline going when things started getting close. Compare that to something like WoW where you look at a "tough" situation and you just run in and die a few times until the RNG likes you. There's no worry about dying at all, and that takes a lot of the fun away. CR's also fed the grouping and 'reputation' aspects of the game. You remembered bad players and you made damn sure you didn't get listed as one, you were polite(r) and didn't leave a group hanging or you wouldn't get more groups. The CR mechanic along with the exp loss really affected more than just the direct effect of death.
Similarly with travel. We'll all take the short way because it's easier when you're trying to achieve something, but the travel time when required did add something. The effect isn't as profound as the death/CR on the game, but it's still there. I honestly wasn't happy when the boats were pulled for the teleporter guys. One of my stronger memories of the game was a friend and I got in a good pug for a couple of hours and none of us had been to Kunark yet, so we all decided to run from Quenyos all the way to butcherblock and took the Maiden's voyage ad did our first grinding in LOIO. The journey there was done at night and it was pretty exciting, an adventure in and of itself. It took hours. None of it would have happened if we could have ported there easily, we just would have ported. Sure we ended up enjoying the same content (LOIO) but the journey there would have been lost to us.
I totally agree here. I just came back after 9 years of absence, a lot less if you count the 30 free days that I played after PoK came out.
When I just came back not even a month ago I didn't even know the existence or meaning of progression servers until now. I can't wait to get on one of those servers when EQ comes back on.
I'm one of those old folks who love the old EQ back then. Everything that you would do in the old days in EQ, I recall, you would have to have a plan of action before you venture out. This is what I really miss with all the new MMORPG coming out these days. After EQ, I have tried several games including WoW just a few days ago after EQ went down. I feel bored playing it. You get a quest and the mobs are right there in front of you. You kill them, get the quest done and you move on the next one. If you aren't sure where you need to go , you just follow the arrow signs. If you don't know what to kill, the names of the mobs that need to be killed are shown to you. You actually don't need to do anything on your own and there is absolutely no challenge. I find this boring although my 7 year old son loves it.
Regarding CR's, nobody likes it but I think it plays a very important role in the game mechanics as described by few of you already. Knowing that you will have to do a corpse run will make you think twice before taking any action. It's hard to explain the feelings.
I once died 12 times in the blood bath on the way to Crush because I didn't know how to swim inside the bath in order to drag out my corpse. It was my worst day in EQ. Did I quit because of that ? No way ! That has made me a better player. I love the danger that existed when you travel. I love the music. I love the inter-action you have with other players. I cannot explain the joy you feel when you just had your first uber gear because you put so much effort in obtaining it whether it'd be a long camp or a long night raiding. All that feeling is lacking on most new MMO's...sadly to say, at least for me.
When an orc first attacked me in GF at night in 1999, I was freaked out with goose bumps. I have never seen any zones in any other MMO's as dark as some zones in EQ especially at night. Do you remember crossing Kithicor Forest at night?....man that was scary.
I can write more but I'm out of time....sorry.
Early Everquest was an MMORPG designed by and for old school pen 'n paper RPGers. The secretive nature of spell effects, the number of non-combat style spells, the complete lack of maps or guides forcing you to explore a town looking for the baking merchant, the inclusion of food/drink which originally did nothing mechanically but added "realism", harsh faction divisions, etc. Part of that was the harsh death penalty and nearly-required grouping. It didn't mean that no one ever explored because we explored fanatically. It meant that you usually tried to explore with a balanced group for heals, damage, crowd control and perhaps a wiz/druid to evac if you needed it. It might not have been the best video game design but it was obvious where its roots came from and, for someone like me who spent the 80's and 90's dreaming of a world like that, it was amazing. I didn't begrudge the "annoying" stuff any more than I ******* to the DM for not giving me a map of the Keep on the Borderlands when we started playing D&D.
The early years with the corpse runs and danger and unknown elements were unforgettable fun times for me. I'm too "old" and tied up with marriage, kids & career. I'm profoundly grateful that, back in 1999 and the early 2000's, I could spend the hours upon hours that the game required. Yeah, parts of it sucked but, without the danger and penalties, I would have never felt the same relief at defeating a train of adds in Runnyeye or the thrill of going deep into uncharted Sebilis or the camaraderie of organizing a Fear rescue for a fellow guild or the praise when a group says you saved the day with your on-the-spot mezzes or heals and you make friends you'll talk to for years.
I suppose there's a different expectation from MMORPGs these days and you can't really go home again. I'm fortunate that these days the anemic death penalties in MMORPGs means I can solo without worry or get up to tend to real life without risking an hour's worth of in-game effort. That's just where I am now in life. But, man, I wouldn't change the past for the world.
The early years with the corpse runs and danger and unknown elements were unforgettable fun times for me. I'm too "old" and tied up with marriage, kids & career. I'm profoundly grateful that, back in 1999 and the early 2000's, I could spend the hours upon hours that the game required. Yeah, parts of it sucked but, without the danger and penalties, I would have never felt the same relief at defeating a train of adds in Runnyeye or the thrill of going deep into uncharted Sebilis or the camaraderie of organizing a Fear rescue for a fellow guild or the praise when a group says you saved the day with your on-the-spot mezzes or heals and you make friends you'll talk to for years.
I suppose there's a different expectation from MMORPGs these days and you can't really go home again. I'm fortunate that these days the anemic death penalties in MMORPGs means I can solo without worry or get up to tend to real life without risking an hour's worth of in-game effort. That's just where I am now in life. But, man, I wouldn't change the past for the world.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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