Any MMOs as challenging as the old EQ?Follow

I am a long time FFXI player. I can tell you FFXI takes patience, brains, communication, endurance and some luck. If you want a hard MMO FFXI is the game for you.

I kinda hate to say it, but EQ doesn't take long to catch up. As an example. before many of the new changes with SoD release, such as mercenaries, which make leveling very easy, I made a War, and got him to 80 with 1100 AA, and was on the leaderboards when I quit playing him (actually got on the boards at 75, when 80 was still the cap), and it took less than 6 months to do. However, on that server I had soem funds, and an 80 level GM Smith to start with. But as another example, I made another War on a new server, with no cash. Actually I made a Shm first, as I knew I was going to do this, and got the Shm to 25 and started Alchemy, however, I enjoyed the Shm so much I and it's so easy to level, I got him to mid 50s, and farmed alot to get some starter cash (around 20-30K), then I started the War. Playing the War off and on, got a total of 48 days play time, am almost 72, with 800+ AAs. 48 days equates to about 4-5 minths, and I haven't tried hard at all to level, or even get AAs, I've just been enjoying the game, and Tunare, there are lots of mid-level toons to group with and meet.

I've also spent alot of time with the 2nd War on Tunare, trying to solve quests and other junk, and doing old expansion progression while it's still challenging, instead of waiting till I leveled some more, and just burning through it, or just ignoring it all together. Most parts of the game you can just ignore until about 80 level, and then work on the last 2 or 3 expansions. It's still a challenging game, and very difficult, even with the many modifications that have been made, if you try to do stuff solo / duo / whatever at the level it was designed for. The newest parts of the game are still challenging as well, and require large group or raid effort for the most part.

If they offer the Free months for returning players again, this summer, I'd jump on it, and try it out again. You may be surprised and still like it, and see it's not bad to level up.

And, bummer to hear Vanguard was a disappointment. I've heard that from alot of people, and had high hopes for that game, and probably would of tried it out, had my computers been up to par on the specs.

Yther Ore.

Just because mercs, defiant gear, hotzones, bazaar etc. exist in EQ, it doesn't mean you have to use them.

Now if you are wanting to stare at your spellbook while medding (for 15 minutes), or drown in Ocean of Tears and lose your corpse because of buggy boats, then well you might be out of luck.

Samira is correct. On my last return to EQ my wife and I started new toons and mostly played wit heach other. We left the tutorial and went to Freeport and worked out way out from there. We left the game again with the new toons in their mid 50's with not much time played on them. This was befre the addtion of Mercs to the game and we also spent time on the old mains as well.

Just want to clarify the Final Fantasy XI situation. The reason why Pandemonium Warden took 18 hours in that publicized attempt was because those who attempted it tried a strategy that the developers did not anticipate. And they ultimately failed to kill it in the end. The strategy involved holding the mob for an extended period of time while the group tried to kill it and recover from wipes.

The monster in question was also a fairly new mob that was added and did not have a 'rage' timer. Older raid mobs would 'rage' after a certian period, essentially making them unkillable if a group took too long to kill and it also effectively limited the amount of time a group had to kill. This was implemented precisely to combat the 'hold indefinately' strategy that is often employed with some of the harder mobs.

After the incident, Square-Enix made several major end game mobs depop (disappear) if they could not be killed within 2 hours.

Also note that Final Fantasy XI is celebrating its 7th anniversary and the server populations actually grew this year, breaking all time highs accross all 32 servers. The game is active and lively and welcomes you!



Edited, May 16th 2009 1:13am by Dekusutaa

After recently leveling my third character to the level cap in WoW, and realizing it took less than two months and I had very few memories along the way, I too became nostalgic for the early days of EQ. Naturally I started doing some reading about the current state of the game, and I was turned off. Mercs, random world-drop gear, hot-zones; these things rather kill what EQ was to me. While the geography and lore are still there, I wonder if the spirit really is.

Anyway, I went to FFXI. It's definitely slower-paced, more thoughtful and more challenging than WoW, at any rate. Personally I've been enjoying it, and would recommend it anyone nostalgic for the early days of EQ.

Oh, and I've played all the games the OP has, plus some. Right now, basically the only game that appeals to me is FFXI, and it feels really weird saying that because I always kind of assumed it was a game strictly made for Japanophiles and the people they love.

If you're bored, try boxing toons. It makes EQ challenging. I six box a group of 73s and it can be hell at times. I tried WoW and Warhammer. Didn't get into them. :/

How much enjoyment you get from the game depends a bit on what your goal(s) are.

I have a 71 Monk that I have played on and off since 2003. If I am playing him these days I'm raiding or doing an assasination for someones quest or farming somewhere (usually Acrylia Caverns).

Most of my time now is spent on my 50 Paladin. I am in no real hurry to level him. I help newbs with quests and questions, hand out free gear and buffs and generaly spend an inordinate amount of time HELPING OTHER PEOPLE. For me, this is some of the best game time. It's what I like to do.

I don't use mercs. I normaly solo, unless I can find someone bored enough to run around with me or are just looking to xp and don't care where they go.

I decided early on to stick to the TSS quests with this toon. (Yes, he's a Drakin). I have slain many a bixie in BFM and StoneHive and have the Bixie bane 2HS and 50 DD aug to prove it.

EQ is not so "easy" as folks keep saying. If you use every available new tool it is certainly easier than it used to be, but if you choose level appropriate content and don't use mercs it is still a challenge.

ATM I am running around Goru'kar Mesa doing those quests and having a blast.

The game is largely what you make it to be. Just a few weeks after starting the Pally - during which I was very active with newbs - I was invited to become the recuiting officer for my guild based on the positive feedback of many of these same newbs who eventualy were invited to join the guild by the then current officers.

This new responsibility added a whole new dimension to the game for me and made it more challenging and more fun.

So, yeah. Come back and play.

Like most generalities, the above might be true for some (perhaps even most) but I can stand as one of those people who says EQ of today is "easy mode". I have eight characters who can walk into MMM and Crystallos (and Solteris) and Void E (two with F access with more to come). In fact, none of the above really applies to me, which basically proves the exception to the proverbial rule. For all intents and purposes, this game has no death penalty (which means WoW's is stiffer since repair costs can break people at times). XP is laughably easy to get due largely to the number of empty zones with no competition for spawns. Heck, I just did 70-72.8 on a character in a group of 5 in Barren Coast killing the snakes and lizards and trash while doing the first few hand aug quests. In one play session, no less!

I could always be missing something but I'd really appreciate it if you'd point out to me this "hard EQ from '99 right there in plain sight". Right now, the only big challenge facing me in EQ is boxing groups (up to 3 groups at most; 3 computers, 6 clients each). I should add one caveat: with rewards commensurate with the challenge. Some people love to get their teeth kicked in for no reason. Other people (myself included) don't mind getting their teeth kicked in, if at the end of it, after finally getting the upper hand, the reward is worthy. I'm doing the hand aug quest on every one of my characters, because it's worthy of the effort. Timeshear? No thanks. And that seems indicative of what EQ of 2009 has become. Remember the J-boots quest? Potentially a long drawn out affair, but the reward was worth it (to most people). Testament of Vanear? Key to Charassis? Epic 1.0s (for most classes)?

Bijou is right, of course. The only digression is where "level appropriate content" is mentioned. Level appropriate now is not what level appropriate was in '99 (the difference is blue and yellow/red). I still say this game is easy, though I won't go so far as to say that's a bad thing. The market has changed, the players have changed. Few people (well, even fewer than now) would play EQ of '99 today. It would be too much of a drag when put against the behemoth as well as your LOTRO, WAR, AoC, and even CoH. The problem I have with EQ's devs is that they removed much of the game's challenge over time without replacing it with anything. It's possible to remove tedium (which is what they did in many cases) and replace it with more appropriate challenge (most likely from the environment). That wasn't done, in my view.

But enjoy the journey, xinaskin. You've got A LOT of development ahead of you (which is part of the fun for me and largely why I still play).

wait till you pull like 10 plus mobs and your merc just freezes and at the end it feels like their saying... "i told you not to pull too much that i can handle see now your dead haha"