nerf the mercs!!!!Follow

i see the use that mercs bring to the game, but at the cost of player interaction. people have complained before about how tough it is to get a group. now with mercs i see it so much harder. i feel that it would be a huge advantage to the game over all if they kept mercs available but at a much much lower degree of effectiveness. in other words NERF THE MERCS!!!! that way people who only want to play with themselves still can, but much harder and slower to do so and at a higher risk. making it more beneficial to group/raid with others. so in the future no more nerfing character classes. just nerf the mercs!!!

Like it or not mercs are here to stay.

Before mercs, what classes were least represented on the /LFG list? What classes are most essential to making a group work? Same answer to both questions.

As the above poster said, they have allowed people who would otherwise have left the game to continue playing, i'm one of them. I xp at odd hours, usually between 5:30 am EST and 6:30, I raid after 7pm 5-6 nights a week. The nights I'm not raiding i'm eaither not playing or doing progression which is horrible xp.

If I didn't have access to mercs I wouldn't even be able to xp effectively because virtually noone is online in the mornings. Not being able to xp and gain levels/AA's means i'd shortly be pushed off to the sidelines from raiding which is the main par of the game I enjoy.

So try mercs yourself, make friends in game, put together groups yourself. Don't sit in general channels waiting it's a horrible use of your gametime.

On Zek the Healer Merc has made PvPing more of a challenge and while a combatant spends time disabling his opponent’s Merc the owner has plenty of time to BOOK …But as the other writers have said they, the mercenaries, are here to stay. I believe removing them now would do more harm then good. But nothing is stopping SoE from creating a server with out them either, except the effort it would take and I have address this subject on other threads.
To address the problem of people grouping, the population base was dwindling way before the introduction of mercenaries to the game. It is just a reflection of what is happening in real life. You no longer need to go to the bank and deal with a teller. Do not have to enter the store and talk to an attendant to pump and pay for your own gas. You can shop a store and scan your own item with out ever having to talk with and employee. And more and more people are doing their purchasing on the internet and not leaving their sofa. Comes to say, why play and interactive game and not have to interact? Soon you will be able to buy a 2nd Merc and be able to log on to instances….or better yet, let you buy 30 Mercs and have your own raid.
I personally enjoy the interaction with players but there are times I rather be by myself, level or achieve a certain goal at my own pace and to purchase a Mercenary comes in handy for me.

Safe Travels,


Edited, May 8th 2009 2:20pm by Vinney

One of the reasons I left EQ 4 years ago was the fact that became nearly impossible for me to find a group at the hours I play at, my usual grouping partners all left the game due to RL issues. Despite the fact that at the time I played a very well geared and respected grouping Wizard, most groups did not want a Wizard to fill the last slot, they would want a Rogue or another healer/slower type. Or, if I and a couple other people started a group we could never find a tank or a healer which meant we couldn't do anything and people would log out or go play their alts. If we did manage to find a cleric or a tank they would only generally group only if we went and did what they wanted to do, which meant we would be helping them with their quests/search for spell and gear drops.

Without a group there was not much I could do except tradeskill or go play an alt. Soloing was no longer a real option-I was so burned out on it. Mercs have allowed me to enjoy playing again because I can actually play the damn game and have some fun instead of sitting on my *** LFG, playing alts or tradeskilling. For some of my toons the only time I use a merc is to refresh cleric buffs, with others I use them as a healer.

As for the "player interaction" BS that is not true. Players can interact in a number of ways without being constantly grouped. I chat on the chat channels and help players with information and directions and if need be I will go help them when one asks for help. In fact I "interact" more with players when not grouped then in a group.

Once the guild halls and guild lobbys were introduced PUG numbers declined on my server, Stromm. PoK became a ghosttown and even the guy who used to run open raids--whose name I sadly forget as he was doing a necessary service backflagging folks--had sorely lacking numbers.

While I haven't kept up with the game for about 3 years, the talk of NPCs for hire was floated even back then, and seeing it now, I'm not surprised its helping deal the final death blow to PUGs and open grouping/raiding.

I know the contigent of "get in a guild" or "learn to make friends" which, back in the day was still some what specious though semi-valid advice, but if the numbers of folks medding in the guildhall aren't there to make friends/decide on a guild, then what good does such advice do other than, well, become an empty platitude?

None the less, I wish I could come back--EQ was pure magic when I started right after LDoN was released.

Wish y'all the best.

For the first point, that isn't always true. Using myself as an example, I make real life cash (above and beyond my actual needs so "disposable income") far faster than I make plat in EQ (and I'm not slouch in that area). Right now I have 27 active accounts and the cost for them is negligible in the grand scheme of things (i.e. it's not painful). I would much rather have a class (or classes) available to me at any given time I may want/need them than the alternative (have to add an unknown quantity to my established group). Generally, the only time I add people to my groups is if they need help with a particular (usually epic 1.5/2.0) mob and I'm able to lend a hand (or 5).

For the second point, so going back to the PoP and earlier eras? I've been a cleric main. I've been offered gear/loot to join certain guilds (never did it though. I was stupidly loyal to a bunch of people who bailed as soon as a new game came out). Happened in Velious, happened in Luclin, happened in PoP (probably happened in Kunark too, but I was a druid back then). Guilds recruited clerics because of their CLASS back then, not level or gear. So it wasn't uncommon to see level 52-54 cleric mains in guilds actively farming armor in HoT/West Wing or doing north wing every spawn. Competition was FIERCE since at that time, the number of clerics you had online largely determined what you were able to kill (try to do AoW in 2001 with 2 clerics and see what happens). As a person with now 7 clerics, all but one well developed, I don't have a problem with that. In my mind, you reap what you sow. If everyone pops a cleric merc during non-raid times and leaves the real clerics to find their own groups, it's no wonder they switch mains (or quit altogether). This isn't directed at you Plough (financial difficulties are a whole different story), just in general. I've had cleric friends quit EQ in large numbers since SoD came out. Heck, one friend quit her cleric main (at 83) in November and rerolled as a Shaman. Got the Shaman to 84/528 and last Thursday, quit EQ altogether (she said it sucked that the only "good" groups she got in were ones run by me. Plus, she got into Champions beta so a new alternative presented itself).

Anyway, just pointing this out as I've had several people approach me about joining their guilds (high playtime + low maintenance player with every useful class = very desirable to many higher tier guilds, it seems). I'm always wary about that as typically, guilds who take care of their "needed raid classes" don't generally experience much turnover outside of RL influences (which may play a role today, give the pace of layoffs and such). In the past, I've paid for guildies' accounts during periods of economic uncertainty (if they wanted to keep playing but couldn't afford to) and that's not as uncommon as it seems (I know of at least 14 other people who have done the same thing). I've done the same for friends in RL (especially recently, oy!) so it's not unusual.

Ennis, honestly, any person who fills the last slot in a group with a second priest or a rogue is specifically looking for a particular role to be filled (either that or they're a moron). I often run groups with 2 wizards (or 1 wiz and 1 mage) alongside the rogue and/or zerker and the combination of a well-geared SK (who holds aggro beautifully) allows them to do their job without much of a concern for aggro management.

tueval, you're operating on outdated and/or second and third hand information. A lot has happened in EQ in three years so complaining about ONE feature without considering the past changes or without firsthand knowledge of the current environment, is just silly.

I agree with balayan though. I don't tend to buff people with mercs out. I've had people ask me for buffs for them and their merc and I laugh (especially if the merc is a cleric lol). Yeah, lemme buff you and further marginalize one of my favorite classes. You want Gallantry? Either get you an appropriate level merc or find someone willing to be a buff *****. Besides, it's not like they'd actually be grateful for the buffs.

Well, I just logged into Stromm. Hit PoK and it's dead. I mean, DEAD. Granted, let's factor the beginning of a holiday weekend, that's it's 7:35 my time in NOLA.

The Nexus stone was, in the day, a major gathering place for MGBs, and he bank was always busy. Since GH, it's clear the majority of the population prefer to stay in the GH enclave with banker, TS nodes, and whatnot rather than venture out. I can only imagine the introduction of Mercs has made it that much more empty.

oh, and /who shows 13 players in PoK.

The fireworks are pretty though.

So, call it "silly" all you like, I know what my eyes are telling me--and it bears out.

Guild Lobby is the new PoK.

As far as mercs go, I only use mine to rez my group. I six box so if I can invis a toon without aggro and pop the cleric merc, it saves me a very long run back to my hunting grounds. Pop cleric merc, drag cleric corpse away from others, let him rez, and suspend merc. Done!

Makes life easier, but I don't use them for anything else as I play my own group. :p

Yeah Boom. The duos possible and even preferable now have changed with mercs. I duo a Wizard and Rogue with a tank and healer merc.

People join my group and say "Don't we need a slowe- oh, it's dead."

Well said - mercs have brought some good to the game, especially for groups and those that play during the off hours. But another issue for live healers is that some guilds are having a heck of a time hanging onto healers as a casual guild. The high end raiding guilds will scoop up any LIVE playing toon in days, power level them, gear them up and write them a blank check (or cheque if your would prefer).

Not all guilds are hoving over their /who all shamman etc commands seeking the unguilded or casually guilded... but the points made by Sir Plough were well thought out. If SOE wants to help all aspects of the game, allow mercs on raids to a maximum of say 3 mercs, or even just one merc - whatever the number, I'm sure they have some really smart guy that can figure out how to make it work.

The other issue I think is clerics may feel unwanted. And in a sense they are. I know of 3 people that got rid of their boxing accounts. Why share drops with a cleric when you can loot for him so to speak. I think maybe taking another look at live clerics again - and offer them something more than just tons of spell drops in any zone you can think of. Offer live clerics Rk III spells off the vendors, Rk IV spells quested for clerics only. Give groups incentive to want a cleric in the group. Allow live clerics faster casting times or larger heals or something.

Just so everyone knows - I play a warrior with a merc healer all the time. Seldom do I every group with live healers. So yes, I do know what I speak of.

(Edited for a typo)

Edited, Jun 10th 2009 7:13am by tripodvi

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My main in 2006 was a chanter. By level 52 I was unable to solo effectively, was behind on spells and had nobody in my level range to group with. After a frustrating couple of months where I re-dinged 52 a few times I gave in and made a paladin. My theory was sound and I effectively soloed him to 56 before RL took me out of the game for a year and a half or so. I made a tank who could heal himself.

My main is now the paladin and I'm able to merc solo some of the ogres in Toskirakk. I have a few TSS and a few SoF raid armors, the BoFF for my 1hs and a Solteris axe for 2hs. Otherwise I'm all SoF/SoD groupable armor and non-visibles.

The toon I made out of necessity I don't play because I want to, I play him because I was and, for the most part, still am unable to effectively solo on my now 79 chanter. Charming mobs breaks too fast and all the pets you get after 52 can't survive the hits up to my 76 pet. I hear the 81 is better. I know my chanter would be more effective with more AA, he only has 460 or so, may be closing in on 500, but he's high enough to start affecting the content we're doing so he's finally getting some groups and thus xp again. Soon as I max my Total Domination line I'll give charm soloing another try.

Merc healers have allowed me to Banish solo mobs provided they don't summon and they've allowed my paladin to solo some stuff most people on my server, tanks especially, are needing groups to take on. My roommate can solo the ogres without a merc on his SK and can take on 15+ pigs without a merc and the only raid gear he has is a raid axe from Clankwrench (iirc, might be the Mining Behemoth). With his merc he can solo any named in Tosk and, now, can solo the SoS generals without burning discs.

That may seem overpowering and he HAS been accused of hacking more than once simply because he put the time and effort into getting a tier V Journeyman merc and 2500+ AA. Neither of us boxes for any reason other than leveling an alt or farming plat, he has a 71 cleric alt on the same account as his SK, we're used to soloing and duoing with him tanking on my pally heals. Mercs have let him do his own thing and allowed me to bring out the chanter since we have heals covered.

As for the result in-game, I've seen 80+ clerics not drop their account, but outright delete the toon after 300+ days on it and a couple thousand AA because it's "worthless" now. I've seen the raid guilds trying to steal cleric mains, including the two we happen to have in our guild. The guild my roommate and I run doesn't cater to "I'm more useful so I need preferential treatment" beliefs. Those have existed since I first played EQ in 2001 and a cleric told my brother "I'll sit here at the wall, you bring mobs and kill them while I heal you then you can go get more while I loot up and med." Clerics have, not all but many I've seen, expected special treatment for years already. Mercs have let us play without THOSE clerics. Sadly the quality non-raid cleric count on Tunare is almost negligible. Mercs have humbled many but caused a lot to delete their clerics for a different boxed toon.

Mercs are good for making soloing or grouping viable, but they're terrible for raiding because of what many clerics have done in response to them. Now, as a result of an even thinner cleric pool, you do have more "what'll you give me?" clerics out there. If a cleric wants in our guild they get groups like everyone else, first come first serve. The one exception is if the cleric is good enough for our current content we'll gladly take them over a merc so the merc becomes a "cleric retainer" slot in the group. I prefer a real cleric. They have more spells available, you can work strategy with them, they don't heal you on an FD pull and wipe the group when the other mobs should have run off. We appreciate our clerics for their players, not their class. If a cleric came to us expecting more than anyone else we wouldn't cry if they left. Challengers of Darkheart is founded on the ideal of earning what you have. Deserving it.

When we need raids put together, since you can't take a merc in them, we have to call on our allies Astral Dragons and Heart of Amber. HoA has some clerics more than equal to a tier 1-3 merc and Astral Dragons has 4 times our count of toons, though most of the active ones are a lower level. By putting together a raid force from our 3 guilds we've been able to start raiding CoA for the fun of it and for 2.0 raids. SoD void gear pretty much begins at TSS raid quality and works to some SoF raid quality so we can get our armors without having to raid them. Raiding is for the fun of it now, for the experience, not for having the "best" gear in the game.

As for the point of the OP, I pretty much disagree with everything said. I couldn't get a group much less "player interaction" in 2006, so it's not the mercs' fault, it's the players' fault. As for merc effectiveness, an Apprentice merc is roughly worthless over lvl 71 when spells get ranks and a tier 1 Journeyman won't hack it in SoD without a good group and some buffs backing it up. A merc tank is good at lower levels but later on their aggro control and DPS is just pathetic so even my caster toons would rather tank poorly on a healer merc or simply have a healer for when grouping with a tank/pet caster than use a tank merc. Nerfing the mercs would, as many have said, cost the game what's left of its community. I agree with those who have said increase the melee merc's potential, it's pretty much ignored and abandoned with everyone I know.

I also disagree with the idea of making more available to clerics to compensate what mercs did to grouping for them. If the cleric is needy-greedy enough to require compensation for what their attitude caused in the first place, a lack of grouping, then *expletive deleted* them. Play a class you like, not the one you can get the most from others for playing. As I said, mercs didn't damage grouping or interaction at all, the players did. Now that the integral healing spot is finally filled in EVERY group, I can play what I want with who I want instead of going "no clerics today, guess I'm off to solo undead" again.

-=Torgayeth "Darkheart" Rocilayn=-