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oh where oh where ha my little cleric gone?Follow

#1 Dec 05 2008 at 11:56 PM Rating: Default
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After spending nearly an hour in gl, pok and in general chat seeking some cleric buffage, a shadowknight took me into his group and had his cleric merc buff me.

After a brief discussion with him and some friends, we have come to the conclusion that playing a cleric is useless these days and making a new one is now a waste of a character slot.

Is this the consensus of everyone these days? I reckon the same could be said for warriors too, perhaps not to the same degree though...
#2 Dec 06 2008 at 1:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Are you just trolling?

What you are saying does not represent something anyone with any amount of play time in Everquest beyond Planes of Power would say so I assume you are looking for a fight.

Edited, Dec 6th 2008 9:41am by Reyla
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#3 Dec 06 2008 at 4:30 AM Rating: Good
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This subject has already been covered in another thread.
Plus one to my post count.
#4 Dec 06 2008 at 6:27 AM Rating: Decent
Could be they were all out playing. I never understood why some people sit in the GL all the time in the first place.
#5REDACTED, Posted: Dec 06 2008 at 8:51 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ya know, a simple yes or no would have been sufficient. I apologize for making you waste your time by answering my question (which I could swear this is what this place was for). Guess I am going to have to find some time to read EVERY post here on the forum...
#6 Dec 06 2008 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
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If you're panties are in a wad over how you were treated here then go to www.evilgamer.net and whine there.

Here's a though, try xp'ing without cleric buffs. It's possible, really it is. Even if you're naked you can still get xp in places. Why do you need buffs?
#7 Dec 06 2008 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the resonse was reasonable, as there are 4 threads besides this one on the 1st page with merc in the title, plus several more about mercs in one form or another without merc, but implied in the title.

Also, since mercs are a recent addition to the game, you wouldn't have to look far back, seems like page 2 is where they start, since there are alot of replies to them.

And finally, with most complex issues, there probably isn't a simple yes / no answer .. I know my own opinion is too complex to give them a yay or nay .. they haev their points, but no replacement for real healer (implying at least a modest ability to play).

Anyway, here are some of the links, and I don't have any idea on a consensus, I generally don't read merc posts ... I do things with or without mercs (as I just got SoD a little over a week ago) and form my opinions from that.

Merc Demographics
What Mercs can and can't handle: Post your results
cleric vs merc cleric
mercenaries

Yther Ore.

Edited, Dec 6th 2008 3:50pm by Yther
#8 Dec 06 2008 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah sorry if the response was less than pleasant but a question like that can be answered just by using mercs in different situations and observing.

For example, I know first hand for a fact that my 72 Monk with 450 AAs tanks 100 times better than a Merc of the same level Apprentice 5 or Journeyman 1.

I just scrapped the tank merc and tank myself and I'm just a Monk. A Warrior of my level and gear would put the merc to shame even more.
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#9 Dec 06 2008 at 10:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I have a 66 cleric and it is gathering dust. I love being a cleric, to me it more exciting than just getting on my sk or bst and beating stuff up. Having to keep people alive and not become dead urself; having to worry about others is exhilerating.

I only use the cleric when my friend wants to play his 67 sk. He has 3 new accouints and is spending time leveling all the toons he can. Why I dunno. So when he plays, I play the cleric, usually. But, there are times I want to be a cleric and there never seems to be groups when I can be on to play, so that leaves me to solo where I can.

I have been debating rerolling said cleric as something else, and the original question was put out as some basis to make my decision on. Granted my highest character is 67, and I dont honestly know whats out there higher than that...meaning if clerics are still needed in groups or if mercs have all but made clerics the ghost class.
#10 Dec 07 2008 at 12:39 AM Rating: Decent
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In my opinion, mercenaries are NO Replacement for a real player. They are good, when you need a rez, clr buff, or a healer that is attentive but not so bright, and generally just casts hots, promised heals, and complete heals, rarely casting quick heals, depending on stance, and are at their best in an efficient stance for grinding easy content, you could solo, but would have some down time every few mobs for health / mana.

At least the clerics med, when they can, but they are very inefficient even in efficient stance, and not good at judging situations and adjusting. Warriors, never med, and run out of Endurance fast in any group. As others have said, clerics have huge heal aggro, and their over healing doesn't help. You can work around alot of their problems, but it takes different strategies and makes the group way less efficient overall.

And I'm not sure, but from observation, it seems they take more than their far share of experience. In every circumstance I've been in, replacing a merc with even a non-active player ends up with more experience, unless it was the only healer in the group, and resulted in lots of downtime without the cleric merc.

One of the best things about mercs tho, is they do pay attention and react even if it's not the best of all reaction choices. Another descent use, is a slaughtering group taking low damage, you can suspend the merc for 5mins then unspend long enough for a complete heal, then re-suspend and continue grinding.

Generally I've only found a good use for War mercs for nameds or other multiple mobs, in a group without crowd control, as they're descent off-tanks, but again will prob burn up 50% of their End during the fight, and require forever to regen it, since they never sit.

So, overall, they have their uses, but are in no way a replacement for a real player that is at least moderately attentive, and knows the very minimum of how to play their class.

Yther Ore.
#11 Dec 07 2008 at 7:30 AM Rating: Decent
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thankyou. that..was the logic i was seeking -)
#12 Dec 08 2008 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
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i'm with tweelist, why do you need cleric buffs to solo ?
#13 Dec 08 2008 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
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This is more to the point of "why do you need cleric buffs to solo" but is still relevant. Before I started 2boxing the only things I would "solo" were places that I could efficiently fight while only self buffed. I wouldn't even use potions. I'm a paladin so I have the baby cleric buffs but at 70ish the paladin Aegolism line is a far cry from the cleric buffs of today. So I'm totally of the opinion that if you can't truly "solo" it maybe you shouldn't be.
#14 Dec 08 2008 at 10:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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eondyil wrote:
So I'm totally of the opinion that if you can't truly "solo" it maybe you shouldn't be.
Why not?

My self-buffed SK at 71 would still get destroyed by the dark blue con drakes in Sunderrock. With a healer merc (which, at 71 means Conviction), I can handle them as single pulls pretty easily -- and they are easily single pulled. Why on earth would I give up the fairly decent SR "solo" experience (even with the merc siphoning half of it) and stick to anemic experience from low light blues in old zones?

There's no special reward I'm stealing for pseudo-soloing drakes. I'm just advancing my character and getting more for my time than I would be fighting Tier 2 PoP mobs while buffed with Cloak of Discord (oh boy! +350hp!). I have no idea why people would object to that.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#15 Dec 08 2008 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
A lot of venom in this thread. It depends on the content your doing and the AAs you have. If you trying to solo your SK in sunderock then yes a good cleric buff helps a lot. If your soloing deep in the hole no self buffed is all you need. I'm just using my cleric merc to res me. I first ask for a 90+ res in GL. If no takers I pop out merc. It is a lot more fun soloing low dark blues at 70, than having healbot make the encounter too easy.

#16 Dec 08 2008 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Beating up stuff in the Hole, the xp-drain from a merc makes them a waste anyway at my level. But if I'm grinding actual xp then my goal is pretty much to make as much xp as I can as quickly as I can so I can hit my goal and go back to dorking around. Really, nothing is going to make killing piles of drakes "Fun" Smiley: wink2 In which case a merc (and cleric buffs) helps out tons.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#17 Dec 09 2008 at 7:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
eondyil wrote:
So I'm totally of the opinion that if you can't truly "solo" it maybe you shouldn't be.
Why not?

My self-buffed SK at 71 would still get destroyed by the dark blue con drakes in Sunderrock. With a healer merc (which, at 71 means Conviction), I can handle them as single pulls pretty easily -- and they are easily single pulled. Why on earth would I give up the fairly decent SR "solo" experience (even with the merc siphoning half of it) and stick to anemic experience from low light blues in old zones?

There's no special reward I'm stealing for pseudo-soloing drakes. I'm just advancing my character and getting more for my time than I would be fighting Tier 2 PoP mobs while buffed with Cloak of Discord (oh boy! +350hp!). I have no idea why people would object to that.


My 67 sk gets better xp mowing down light blues solo in the Steppes than grouped with a 66 paladin with a mercenary cleric in Sunderock.
So we ended up ditching the merc, moving to the Steppes and taking on a mix of light blue / dark blue mobs.
I'm not a fan of downtime after every mob which is what Sunderock was doing to me at that level and the pace in the Steppes allows us to burn through 7 or 10 mobs then sit back and med/chat a bit.

On a side note, ding 68 on the sk and a fond Farewell to Kann my faithful pet that I've had since October, destroyed by a Loping Plains skeleton's riposte.
New pet spell now and I'll have to see what mage-summoned weapons are appropriate for the new Kann.
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#18 Dec 09 2008 at 7:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Donbayne wrote:
My 67 sk gets better xp mowing down light blues solo in the Steppes than grouped with a 66 paladin with a mercenary cleric in Sunderock.
So we ended up ditching the merc, moving to the Steppes and taking on a mix of light blue / dark blue mobs.
Sure, ya find what works for you. Personally, I can go through 7+ drakes in SR before my own mana requires me to med a moment. That's "solo" with a merc, mind you.

I'm just wondering why anyone would begrudge me the ability to get decent xp just because I'm using cleric buffs and whatnot. Or why I shouldn't be "soloing" something if I can't do it without external buffs/potions/etc. I solo what I'm equipped to solo at the moment -- if I'm well buffed, I solo harder stuff. If I'm merc buffed, somewhat easier stuff. If I'm self-buffed, I solo crap mobs for AAXP. Some opinions above are that I should only be doing the last one.
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#19 Dec 09 2008 at 8:16 AM Rating: Decent
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I say let the nay-sayers be ... as long as you're playing how you like to, and it's following the EULA, and if possible, following generally accepted etiquette that's not part of the EULA, I see no problem with how any one plays.

But personally, I go for efficiency above almost everything else, with the exception of when that means alot of down time (which is generally not the case). I generally find the best xp soloing overall, but group xp can be way better, if it's the right group, and generally high dps. But that may just be due to the type of toons I play. Like, I've never had awesome solo xp on my Enc, but I haven't tried to solo the Enc for years (back when <30th level).

With current equipment and AA, and if I would do it, I could prob charm stuff and make good xp solo, but instead, if I can't find any grp xp, I just have him follow the Rng around while farming and get tons of AA, for farming greens and light blues, that give the Rng only miminal xp.

Dang it, side-tracked again :-/ Anyway, my point was, play how you like, and if you think it's working for ya, so what about what others think ... 'cause most likely there are others that play similarly, despite the vocal people saying it's crap. It just means it doesn't work for them.

Enjoy the game as you can, and have fun everyone!

Yther Ore.

Oh my, how embarrassing .. I can't even not typo my own name :-/ :D


Edited, Dec 14th 2008 11:36am by Yther
#20 Dec 10 2008 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Yther wrote:
...Like, I've never had awesome solo xp on my Enc, but I haven't tried to solo the Enc for years (back when <30th level).

With current equipment and AA, and if I would do it, I could prob charm stuff and make good xp solo...

Tther Ore.


I agree with the full quote, but edited down to the snippet to comment:

My enchanter did so well solo xp (via charm) that necro was the only class I played that didn't feel like I was going too slow on (XP-wise) afterwards.

Granted there were certain level hiccups on the way where tactics suddenly failed, and that was some time ago so I concede it may no longer match my recollection, especially since my chanter isn't anywhere near the current level cap.
#21 Dec 12 2008 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
I think I have reached that stage of the game where a lot of the time if my fellowship clerics are not online and and guild groups are full, I pull up my merc and go farm a few aa, tribute, or trade skill stuff. I don't group much outside guild and fellowship. It's not that I am against LFG or others who are, but I always feel like it's trying to relearn/reteach how to play. I have been playing with the same people for a few years now and most the time we know what each other is going to do before it's done. There are always the exceptions, like progressing through things like Void tasks. I either wait, get a group and hope for the best (/cheer Siflor and crew) or get merc and go plow wildlife in FoS. But I have commented many times I will ALWAYS take appropriate level PC cleric over a merc any day of the week.

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