Recent Account Bannes for HackingFollow

Recently Sony has been sweeping its system to find and pinpoint accounts that are using third party programs to exploit the game. There is some new Bot that they are having trouble Pin pointing that may or may not be related to the Plat spammers and power levelers that have made a huge surge in game. Beleive me when i say that I applaud their efforts.

However, yy account has banned twice in the last two weeks for "Ghost Killing" the first time they apologized and said that it was a "Typographical error" Assuming the same mistake was made I submitted a petition. This is the dialog which ensued

been edited to be on ascending chronological order and player and owner names have been removed.

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Customer (Polley) 04/09/2008 11:09 AM

Well two weeks ago 3/23 my account was banned for "Ghost Killing and hiding within the geometry of the game". After talking to Phone support and submitting a petition, GM Khaoimhe replied to me (reference number 080321-000908) and told me that "In a recent disciplinary action on another account, it appears as though a typographical error was made which happened to correspond to your account information. As a result, the account was set to deny access to the EverQuest server.", and added "I do apologize for this. I have lifted the ban from the account and granted seven days of play time"

Well this morning 4/9 I attempted to log in and found that the account was banned again. After speaking with Phone support they informed me that it was banned for "ghost killing and hiding within the geometry of the game" yet again.

Please believe me when I tell you that as players and consumers of this product, that we do very much appreciate the efforts being made to stop cheating and hacking, its hard enough advancing through the game even without having to deal with cheaters and hackers. That having been said, there are many players like myself who don't have a lot of time to play the game so when we do have time to play, you can imagine that we want to get in, get to work, and have some fun. As a result of both of these account suspensions I have missed opportunities in the form of raids and quests that I do with other people who play in my time zone and as a result of that I am farther behind in flags and loot.

Again we really do appreciate the efforts being made on your behalf...but I hope you can understand my frustration with the matter, it’s hard to believe that the same "typographical error" could happen twice in only two weeks.

I hope we can get the issue resolved for good

Mahalo

Polley

Response (GM Aahir) 04/09/2008 11:31 AM Greetings Polley,

Thank you for contacting us. Game Master Aahir at your service. I understand your concern regarding your banned account. In order to serve you better I am escalating this ticket to a Senior GM for further review. Your patience and cooperation is greatly appreciated.

Should there be anything else that you require assistance with, feel free to contact us. We look forward to provide you the best assistance possible.

Safe Travels

Regards
GM Aahir, EverQuest
Sony Online Entertainment

Response (CSR Robert R.) 04/09/2008 12:17 PM Greetings,

This is Senior GM Zekil following up on your issue.

I am sorry that your account was wasned in error previously, however this time there is evidence that your account was using a third party program to cheat and exploit the game. On 04-04-2008 there is evidence that shows you exploiting in the Dreadlands, Bastion of Thunder, Muramite Proving Grounds and Crushbone. Your account has been banned due to these exploits. It is unfortunate that we have to take these type of actions, but we need to rid Norrath of the cheaters and exploiters.

Sincerely,

Senior GM Zekil
In-Game CSR-Everquest
Sony Online Entertainment


Sony Online Entertainment Customer (Polley 04/09/2008 01:21 PM

Thank you very much for the quick response to my petiton (080409-001420).

I have to admit that what you say comes as a tremendous surprise to me. All of the zones that you mentioned are zones that I have been in in the last few weeks. I was in dreadlands for the anniversary scavenger hunt, Crushbone while dueling a guild mate, and the rest of the other zones for XP. I am interested to know what sort of evidence was found on the fourth, linking me to any sort of exploit. In fact in all of the zones minus Dreadlands, I was with other people who, I'm sure, can a tell you that I was not using ANY sort of exploit. I have never cheated in this game, nor do I even know where to begin if I were to try.

Please, contact me again so that we can explore what is making me look like I'm using some sort of exploit!! I notice that you mentioned a 3rd party program being used to exploit the game, is there a possibility that something is running on my computer that I'm unaware of? Like some sort of spyware or a Trojan? Otherwise I can't think of anything else that would look like third party software.

I use a public Wi-Fi connection to play Everquest. When my account was banned for ghost killing the first time I read up on what that was. The best answer I got was that it involved a monk and somehow making the character appear to be disconnected or lagging. My connection always seems stable, and is pretty fast, is it possible that lag spikes can create the same type of scenario and its being misread as ghost killing?

Im really in the dark as to what’s causing the problem on my computer. I really would appreciate any help you can give me.

Thank you,

Polley
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Sony Online Entertainment LLC. Response (GM Salvandor) 04/09/2008 01:27 PM

Greetings Polley!

This is GM Salvandor. I understand that you want to inform that you never used third party software in the game to enhance your character's game play. I am escalating your issue to our Supervisor for further investigations and assistance. Someone will get in touch with you as soon as possible. If you have any comments regarding this or want to provide some more information then please add a comment to this ticket.

Good luck and safe travels in the world of Norrath.

Regards,
Game Master Salvandor
In-Game CSR – EverQuest
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Response (Lead GM Encegawi) 04/09/2008 01:39 PM Greetings,

This is Lead GM Encegawi writing regarding the status of your EverQuest account. During the course of our investigation into hackers and cheaters within the game, your account was identified as being involved in these actions. This can mean one of two things:

1) Active hacking - Server logs and/or visual GM confirmation showed the character using third party programs to hack the game.
2) Group participation - You were part of a group that had one or more members actively hacking. Your character gained experience, items and/or flags for being part of the group.

Either one of these is against the user agreement, and can result in an account ban. Depending on the severity of the actions taken, the account can be banned even if this was your first offence. I'm very sorry, but once the account is banned for this it is the final decision of management and cannot be overturned. If you had any other questions or concerns, please let me know.

Regards,

Lead GM Encegawi
Customer Service Supervisor
Customer (Polley) 04/09/2008 01:51 PM I completely understand what you are saying. I want to make it very clear that I do not have ANY software on my computer that even relates to Everquest. So I am very curious to see exactly what the server logs said. I can guarantee you that I do not use exploits, nor have I ever, and I never will!

IF I was in a group where I gained experience because somebody else was hacking, I definitely do not think that I should be held responsible. There was absolutely no way that I could have known that!

At this point Sony is telling me, "we caught you doing this and we have evidence". How do I prove that I have never done these things?!

Regards, Polley
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Response (Lead GM Encegawi) 04/09/2008 02:01 PM

I'm very sorry but I cannot release details as to what the logs showed as it may compromise our methods of detecting hackers. Please understand that we do not ban arbitrarily, and take a great deal of time and care in making sure we are not making any mistakes. Depending on the severity of how much you were involved in cheating, an account can be outright banned even if they were in a group and not actively hacking.

~ Lead GM Encegawi
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Customer (Polley) 04/09/2008 01:51 PM

Ok...I understand this. And I understand that you do not arbitrarily ban accounts. I'm trying my best to not point fingers but the fact is that you are wrong! I have never cheated.

I'm beginning to think that whatever I say, the only response I will get is that I'm banned, period.

You tell me that "Depending on the severity of how much you were involved in cheating, an account can be outright banned even if they were in a group and not actively hacking.". First of all you say actively hacking like I wasn't hacking at the time. Which i wasn't, because I never have! The only people that I have grouped with In this time frame were XXXXX, whom I have grouped with many times, a ranger who we picked up in BoT, and a cleric from my guild who I had never grouped with before. If ANY of these people were hacking there is NO way that I would know that.

Either way the XP gained was under 5%! The only two rare drops were things I didn't need, nor were they valuable or difficult to attain. I’m sure your records will show that my XP gain is slow at best and my gear is mostly cultural crafted and bazaar gear. If i was hacking, don't you think Id be a little better off?!

At this point its like going to jail for a crime that you didn't commit, but the police officer is saying I did. If I was in a group or people with somebody who did commit a crime, and I was unaware of it, I wouldn’t be getting in trouble because I was oblivious to the crime. Last time I checked "guilty by association" was not in the Sony user agreement.

I'm being accused, and I'm saying that I'm innocent. Where does it go from here? How do we find the correct answer?

Regards, Polley

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Response (Lead GM Encegawi) 04/09/2008 02:21 PM

It was much more than 5% XP and a couple of loot drops. I'll send it over to be investigated again, but I'm very certain the same conclusion will be reached.

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Customer (Polley) 04/09/2008 02:37 PM

Thank you for sending it in to be looked at again.

As far as it being "Much more that 5% xp and a couple of loot drops" In the time frame that we are talking about, I grouped in BoT with XXXXX and a Ranger who's name i don't remember. Since i was working regular XP at the time with AA's turned off the xp bar wasn't moving much at all. We killed 1 rare there which dropped an Ornate Leather pattern, I don't recall which one, legs or arms as I recall. The only other rare killed was in Taskfiend Caikip in Muramite proving grounds, he dropped a Veinteppers stone which the cleric in the group got. Besides that I really can’t think of what could make it seem as if there were "much more than 5% xp and a couple of drops"

We are talking about Polley on the XXXXXX server right?

Thanks again for the help...I hope we can solve this

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Response (Lead GM Encegawi) 04/09/2008 02:47 PM

I've decided to let your account back into the game, but the character was rolled back to counter the items gained. This is the absolute limit of what I can do, so any other items that may be missing from your character will not be returned. As long as we do not discover any further involvement in cheating, we will never again meet under these circumstances.

~ Lead GM Encegawi
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Customer (Polley) 04/09/2008 03:21 PM
Well Lead GM Encegawi, that is quite the good faith gesture. And it IS appreciated. I have logged in and checked my inventory. Although Im happy you lifted the ban and rolled the character back there now another major issue.

On March 25th, as I'm sure your records will confirm. I purchased 1 Legends of Norrath: Oathbound booster box ($99.99), and 31 Event passes (31.00). I no longer have ANY of these items, including the loot cards. If you would like to refund the $130.99 I will be happy to call matter closed.

I understand that "This is the absolute limit of what I can do, so any other items that may be missing from your character will not be returned" However refusal to refund these items without concrete proof of my alleged misconduct, is against the law in the United States.

I await your decision.

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Customer (Polley 04/09/2008 04:39 PM Ok,
I have talked with a friend of mine over the phone, he is a GM on another server. I understand that there is a huge issue with this new Bot program which may or may not be related to these plat spammers, and I understand that this is threatening EQ unlike anything before. My friend, well call him Clarence, has also assured me that if the GM's were positive that I had done something wrong that the ban never would have been lifted from the account.

So there is no need to flex our muscles at each other and try to play hardball. If there is any information that I can give that will help to pinpoint the bot problem please don't hesitate to ask. I know that the ways of detecting these bots are still being fine tuned, and that there have been thousands of banned accounts as of late. I appreciate the efforts to lift the ban and rollback the character, but the fact still stands that I have done nothing wrong and hence should not be punished for anything.

Clarence suggested that perhaps someone who was botting had mentioned my name for some reason after he was banned, whether it was some sort of plea bargain we don't know. If this is the case I can narrow that down to 3 people, two who's names I don't recall but I'm sure I could dig them up on EQplayers. Those are the only people I have associated with in the past week.

He also expressed interest, as did I, as to what items your records show me as gaining in this ordeal, since i was "rolled back to counter the items gained" I'm rolled back and the only things I'm missing are loot cards from LoN. Were both interested to know what these items were if you would be willing to tell me.

Bottom like is that I want these botters and exploiters gone just as much as you do. What can we do to help each other? How can I help to resolve these issues, if i can at all?

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Response (Lead GM Encegawi) 04/09/2008 06:28 PM

Rolling the character back does not affect purchases made through LoN. None of the items mentioned even show up within EverQuest. They are all accessed through the LoN client only. Boosters that are looted from within the game can be removed from a rollback, but you did not indicate any of these were in-game boosters. If this is the case please let me know and I will search the logs for evidence of you obtaining these items. In regards to the event passes, I see you traded all of those on the 25th for two Familiar of Phara Dar in two separate posted trades. The booster box adds the booster packs to your claimable window, where you can trade them or open them as you wish. If there were any items claimed those would be lost with the rollback. Those cannot be restored since I told you anything lost with the rollback would be gone. There can also be no refund for the purchased boosters and event passes since they were used within LoN.

~ Lead GM Encegawi

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As a result of the rollback i lost 1 Visage of the Ice Golem, 1 Familiar of Phara Dar, and stack of 10 Legenday potions of the adventerer (xp potions). All these items were claimed in game and thus *ARE* a part of the the everquest client. These are the only items missing from the character. ALL of which I paid for and obtained through booster backs or trades for items and event passes. You are correct that the rest of the cards and unclaimed items are still there since they are not part of the everquest client that was my mistake.

Please check your records, I’m sure you will find that the items I am missing ARE legitimate items, and were there before the time period in which you are accusing my of cheating.

It seems like nobody is comprehending the fact that *I* did NOTHING wrong, and I can say in 100% confidence and truth that Sony Online Entertainment has made a mistake. There is nothing being done about this, I am getting the run around and quite frankly it's a big let down from Sony, in the past I have never had a problem with their business practices.

Imagine if you will that your Cell phone company sent you a bill saying that you were 1000 minutes over your limit, and you were going to have to pay $500, their records show that you are over your minutes but you phone shows that you haven't exceeded your limit. I'm sure you would investigate the matter. Now imagine how you would feel if your cell phone company never gave you an answer as to why this happened, and all they did was reduce the bill down a little bit. That is exactly what is happening here. Your saying i cheated, I'm telling you that nowhere on my computer is there software that does that! Send someone over, id be happy to let them look!!

All I want are my Familiar of Phara Dar, my Visage of the Ice Golem, and my experience potions back. After that I'll be extremely happy if you never hear from me again!

I DON'T want another excuse about how "This is the absolute limit of what I can do". That cop out excuse is not acceptable. If thats all you can tell me then don't waste my time. Send it to a superior that CAN make it happen. And while your at it, see if they can't give me a REAL answer about why this whole mess is happening.

And next time this happens to someone instead of telling them "As long as we do not discover any further involvement in cheating, we will never again meet under these circumstances." Why don't you try apologizing to them for royally messing up!"

I STILL would like a list of the Items you are alleging that my character obtained. Because at this point I'm not sure I believe you.

Once again I express that I have done absolutely nothing against the Sony User Agreement and yet I am being punished because your system can't pinpoint the problem. When I ask several questions I expect answers to all of them, not just 1. Please find the answers and get back to me.


*END*

I am awaiting a reply

At this point it is less about the items and the game, and more about bad business practices.

Has anyone else had this same problem?! It’s ridiculous! Am I blowing this out of proportion? I’d appreciate any feedback, because what’s happening is just wrong! And I’m sure I’m not the only one experiencing it.

Thanks folks!

Polley Pauhana

You aren't gonna get tagged for ghosting just for being on a laggy wireless network. Ghosting produces a result in logs that absolutely nothing else can or will.

It's possible for people to get accidentally tagged certainly, as a result of a typoed account name etc and other silly 'typographical errors,' but you won't accidentally actually get tagged as a ghoster.

I really hate and am appauled that you are going through this. I'm going to believe you 100% when you say that you are not a hacker. I think that if you were a hacker you wouldn't have brought this issue to an alla forum and would not be continuing to but heads with SOE over it. Usually hackers say fook SOE, buy another account and start again and they complain on their hack website.

We've all complained, petitioned and demanded SOE remove the hackers and plat farmers from EQ. They are now doing as we wish. However, I'm beginning to see a scarey trend with SOE now. You are not the first innocent person to experiance this. It seems that it's now becoming a witch hunt with SOE. They are insta banning anyone who even looks like they are doing anything illegal. SOME people are getting harrased for being logged in for long times, plvling alts, making too much money from trade skill items, 6 boxing and the list goes on. And, a few people have been banned for picking up loot rotting that was called out in /ooc. (SOE said the loot was hacked) Or banned for being in a pick up group where one person has/had hacked.

Now all that just scares the heck out of me. I 2 box, my husband 4 boxes. Are we going to be accused of plat farming now? I mean, I do sell the heck out of pelts, silks, fluids, gems and the such. My husband and I can play for long periods of time. On the weekends it's not uncommon for us to have 12 to 15 hour long sessions. EQ is our bonding time. We also have access to a druid and can get an alt from lvl 1 to lvl 60 in about 30 hours. Are we going to get accused of hacking next because an alt got lvls too fast therefore we must be hackers?

People calling out root loot in /ooc is a wonderful thing. I've done it before and I've taken advantage of some /ooc calls. It's a beautiful way to share with others and help. But now I'm going to be scared to go pick up an upgrade and others will think twice before taking that aug that's rotting. And now I'm going to be scared about pick up groups. Why should I go looking for group if there's a chance I'm going to be banned cause I don't know what the other people are doing or have done. (now don't get me wrong, if I see someone warp or other stuff I would disban from the group.) This is basiclly going to lead to paranoia, distrust and anti social behavior in the EQ community.

I find it interesting they have you hacking in 4 different zones.Unless you were in the 4 zones with the same person who was hacking why would this be?

It's hard to comment as I dont know you or what Sony is up to reguarding hacking.

I play alot of mmo's and hacking is rampant.There are hackers and the rest of us,may our paths never cross.I never really cared.Now that hacks are big business it seems half the people hack just to keep up with eveyone else that hacks.Its snowballing!

They dont seem to have a clue how to stop this.I play Counter Strike,a first person shooter,once in a while.I would love to play it more but that game is filled with hackers and it gets frustrating getting killed all the time because someone can see thru the walls and knows where you are.It says when you log onto a server its VAC secured.Meaning your not suposed to be able to run hacks on that server.Yet half the people are still hacking.So if you want to play and be good at the game you NEED hacks.So goes the theory anyways.

EQ may be getting their first real taste of this.As more and more people run their own little bot armies,why not hack.Its not like you have anyone else in group thats going to notice.Atleast thats what I think the logic is.

Over the years I dont think these people who run these MMO's have really been serious about defeating hacks and just considered it a minor nuisance.All the while the hackers have been learning from trial and error,and each other,how to develope this into a cottage industry.

Maybe these companys should hire the developers of these hacks,pay them a huge salery,like the old days of the internet when you didnt know what the hell you were doing reguarding security.

Sorry this ran so long.Guess I had more to say than when I started.LOL.

Edited, Apr 10th 2008 10:48am by Boomsticker

Haha Now that I think back, I was on my cleric and was grouped with a bard in Nobles Causeway when it was a HZ. I was with an aquantance of mine and a couple others. She had a friend of hers with us.

She was tracking stuff and could tell us exactly where they were, when they would pop and what exactly they had on them each time they popped, before we killed them. The nameds, I mean.

Her friend was a BST or shaman, I forget and he seemed pretty solid as a tank. He had gear on I dont ever recall of hearing of ( not necessarily meaning a hacker, but I like to think I am familiar with alot gear, especially for those classes that I play normally).

Fortunately I wasnt in group very long. I died, rezzed myself and camped. There was a patch in 30 mins, so I figured it wouldnt be worth my time running there again.

Next night my account wouldnt turn on. LOL thought I was banned, turned out my account had closed..(someone forgot to pay the cc bill, lol) and it just happened to be renewal day.

hackers and cheats have been around longer than computer games and EQ has been around longer than most MMO's. I can give personal accounts of others banned, perhaps unfairly, when SoE made sweeping bans due to the latest and greatest in exploits and hacks. Ghosting has been around awhile.

It's unfortunate to you, the individual, that gets caught in the cross-fire perhaps, but from a communtity stand point, I'd say 'better safe than sorry'. An MMO community is owned by the game, they can make whatever decisions they want...they don't have to follow a bill-of-rights, or a constitution. They may decide that if a few innocents get banned it's still worth it if they can root out the problem.

Seems that SOE did look at your case individually and make adjustments based on your claims.

I'm not sure what kind of a solution you're looking for. I could just as easily applaud SoE for taking action against cheaters as I could bash them because, in the process, they caused one individual, that may or may not be guilt-free, some problems.

I'm truly curious what your goal was for making the original post as you've never posted on this forum before??

Elinda,

My intentions for posting this here was to find out if anyone else was going through this. Quite frankly even friends of mine who are GM's are a little curious as to what exactly they arr finding that I did. Ive had this account since 2001 and have never had any disciplinary or banning issues up until these last two weeks. My friends know that I don't cheat, not would I even know how to.

The solution that I am looking for from Sony is acknowledgment that they made a mistake. At this point its less about the game, as I don't play nearly as often as most, and more with what I consider the bad handling of a Business issue. We are all consumers of the Everquest product. And I'm being penalized monetarily for something that is an Internal mistake. I am not mad at Sony, I'm sure they are having a difficult time pinpointing the problem.

I have never posted on this forum before, i use Allah's almost everyday. I just thought that as part of this Everquest community that other's would like to know what was happening, as I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I don't think that I am "smearing" Sony at all. I simply showed the logs of what has happened so far, because I am frustrated.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of that is yours, than Thank you for it, I will keep it in mind!


Polley

Smear away Polley!!! I know I do when given the chance. I'm glad you posted this, this situation needs to be brought to the EQ publics attention in the safe environment of alla. This post on Eqplayers wouldn't last a day without being edited or locked.

From your story SoE already admitted to likely making an error and reinstated your account. They spent a good deal of time addressing your claims. In the end you lose some in-game stuff.

I'm sorry your frustrated, but do you really want SOE to STOP coming down on the cheaters, hackers and exploiters because they may accidently ban someone who is legit? Do you want them to spend days hand reading log upon log each time someone deny's their accusations?

Mistakes happen and from your disjointed story it sounds like you were lucky to get your account back. I know others who never did despite being 'innocent' and making their pleas to SoE.

I really do agree with you Elinda. And I'm sure that Sony will be making an effort to fine tune their detection methods, I just would like them to acknowledge that. I most definitely don't want them to stop their efforts, nor do I think they would over a few issues like this.

As for what Darkstarr said. That was an interesting point about the account being compromised, I'm not sure why anyone would log my character to level it for me haha. But in any case i have changed the password just to be safe.

Polley

QFT

I actually grouped with someone about two weeks ago in BoT who admitted to me he had one of his accounts banned for a macro. I don't think he was using one in that group but how was I to know? If he was, do I deserve to get banned?

..and did you report him?

How?

I had a good friend and grouping companion back in the day on Saryrn who I used to play with nightly. He once admitted to me that he sometimes used 3rd party programs like ShowEQ. I was surprised because I wouldn't have figured him to be "the type" but I certainly wouldn't have known either if he hadn't told me. You can use 3rd party applications with more subtlety than announcing what every mob is going to drop and how many seconds until it spawns again before you warp over to pull it.