My first and my main is an Enchanter. Everything I read about EQ prior to playing the game suggested that, regarding the Enchanter, not to make this class your first toon. But of course, telling me that something is difficult, if not impossible, is the quickest way to get me to try it.
And indeed, he is a difficult class, due to the myriad of functions he has, plus the need to have certain "tricks" down, such as being able to shuffle through the NPCs with a single keystroke.
As he grew in power, I found that the power discrepency between him and the other classes grew. The disadvantage in terms of DPS was more subtle at lower levels. Now it's become obvious...and the nukes and DoTs are downright embarassing.
He's now level 78, with over 1400 AAs as of tonight, and has never been more useless to the group. As the potions and gear improve, his buffs became superfluous. And some classes, such as the Necromancer and more recently the Wizard, actually have no use for our mana regen buffs. As gear improves, our haste becomes less and less noticeable, to say nothing of the advantage of potions available to higher levels.
Let's face it. No group needs an Enchanter. There is nothing that an Enchanter can do that makes him indispensible in a group setting, save perhaps very rare instances in which Sony has arranged for precisely the Enchanter's unique abilities to be used. When I get an invite to a group, I can only think that it's because they couldn't find a Shaman.
And why not? The Shaman has better DPS, more buffs, is a better slower, and can also heal.
This is especially ironic for me, since I considered SoF to be THE Enchanter expansion. Especially with the new abilities to enchant dwerium and the palladium bars. And best of all was the addition of Beguiler's Directed Banishment and Beguiler's Banishment. Charm kiting has never been safer with these. An aggroing mob from a broken charm will likely never reach the Enchanter, as their individual knockback can repel, root and blur an angry mob. Plus we were now given a Heal Over Time for our charmed mobs. (Of course, they have to nerf charm DPS first, so our HoT will now actually give a charmed mob a fighting chance.)
So, I don't group any more. I'm a liability to the group's DPS. They shouldn't ask an Enchanter, they should hold out for the Shaman, or perhaps a Beastlord. And I will continue on my merry way, earning experience alone.
So, good luck to you, my fellow Enchanters. I would encourage you to make Beguiler's Directed Banishment and Beguiler's Banishment a priority. Besides being a lifesaver, it's a riot to look at. Especially when the mobs get "punted" into the water.
Edited, Feb 17th 2008 2:19am by ChanterTime
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- My Enchanter: Accepting Obsolescence
My Enchanter: Accepting ObsolescenceFollow
Quote:
As the potions and gear improve, his buffs become superfluous.
This is the best Haste potion:
Elixir of Speed X
1: Increase Attack Speed by 50%
This is the best Enchanter Haste:
Hastening of Erradien
2: Increase AGI by 80
3: Increase DEX by 67
4: Increase ATK by 71
5: Increase Attack Speed by 68%
6: Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 27%
8: Critical Damage Mob(4)
Are you joking?
After 16 years, I'm not listing every friggin character.
Aye, sounds like you dont play much. Chanters are still a VERY viable class. I have been on several raids where we have actually changed our target due to a lack of chanters. I know, I know, you were talking bout a group setting, but chanters are still a necessary part of the game in even group settings. Some content is just so much easier with a chanter along. While ooc regen of mana and HPs has lessened downtime, I still would rather have chanter mana regen, magic resistance, and haste when I hunt. Hell, when these particular chanter buffs fade, I origin back to the GL and get them rebuffed. Yes, I could use pots, but they dont last as long, and they arent as good. If your groups DPS sucks due to you, then maybe you need to rethink the make up of your group. I have never thought of Chanters as DPS. Probably wrong in that, and I admit it, but oh well. Now that I think about it, I have seen a few instances where the chanters charmed pet has been pretty good DPS. I think maybe OMM is a case of that, but dont remember. Back to raiding; try the Sisters in DpoB without a chanter, or Hatchet. Try Sendai without a chanter. Yes, I imagine now a days, some very imaginative peeps could and have done these without a chanter, but it was probably alot more difficult. I have always thought of chanters as crowd control, and if you want to nuke then maybe you should make a wizzy alt.
Personally,id take a good chanter anytime. I prefer that over pullers alot of the time,because its fast. And being an sk,I heart manaflare. The people who turn them down,are not the people you would want to group with anyway,it shows how ignorant they are of that class.
Haste is quite nice,And maybe im stupid,but I havent met a wizard yet that did not want chanter mana regen,or mana buffs,etc. Imo,that wizard is not living up to his/her full potental dps wise.
Chanters do need a boost,yes. They have for ages and ages. But in spite of that,they are still a great class.
You cant always find a shaman,and a puller. Group wise.
You saying you don't group anymore makes people /sadface all over norrath.
I must forever bug enchanters for buffs,or my eq life is not complete.
Haste is quite nice,And maybe im stupid,but I havent met a wizard yet that did not want chanter mana regen,or mana buffs,etc. Imo,that wizard is not living up to his/her full potental dps wise.
Chanters do need a boost,yes. They have for ages and ages. But in spite of that,they are still a great class.
You cant always find a shaman,and a puller. Group wise.
You saying you don't group anymore makes people /sadface all over norrath.
I must forever bug enchanters for buffs,or my eq life is not complete.
Oh, hey, I never withhold the buffs. It's just that I recognize the "requests" to group for what they are. They want the mana regen, and the haste, and would rather give the slot they're offering to a Shaman, but they're too polite to say, "Would you mind coming over here to buff us, and then get lost so we don't have to group with your gimp DPS." And I don't even take payment for it.
As for the Wizard, I'm not accusing you of being stupid. Maybe I'm the stupid one. It's just that a close friend of mine who plays a Wizzie says that she now has a "Harvest" line of spells that allows her to recover all her mana, and it will work with such frequency that she doesn't even notice the Enchanter mana regen any more.
And the one who mentioned raiding, I've given up on that. The last time I raided was some GoD thing, I forget what. I remember we had to split up and kill two identical mobs that had to die at almost the exact same time. Six hours of "haste, please," "KEI, please," and I was thinking, "Shoot me now, please." That's basically all I had to do. My nukes are so slow that by the time I could target trash and cast, the mob was dead before my next to useless nuke landed. Then came the final fight...The raid leader explained that the boss mob would spawn four adds. So, I asked the natural question: "Are the adds mezzable?" Long pause. I asked again: "Are the adds mezzable?"
The raid leader finally said that he didn't know if the adds were mezzable, but regardless, he was not going to abandon his plans to have the adds off-tanked.
To satisfy my own curiousity, I loaded a Target-based AoE mezz. Wouldn't you know it? After enduring an entire raid full of unmezzable mobs, four boss-mob spawns promptly went to la-la land and were immediately awoken by the four off-tanks. We wiped three times, then finally defeated the boss mob. And my guildmates have the nerve to wonder why I don't raid.
I'm liking the mana flare aura at level 80, though. I wonder if raid leaders group Enchanters with the heavy nukers and DoTers, to maximize the benefit of that aura. I was hoping that mana flare would finally become a group buff, but I guess the aura is the best we're getting. Probably to keep Enchanters from MGBing it during raids.
Edited, Feb 17th 2008 2:51am by ChanterTime
Meh, no offence but sounds like whining, if you don't like the class, don't play it. But don't put the onus on others that may not recognize your classes worth.
My mains a Druid, everyone of my skills can be better performed by another class, so why would anyone want them for groups? (you can answer that)
If you truly think your class is under-balanced then start a productive thread stating the facts about lack of skills and solutions at the official SoE boards and try and do something about it. Class balancing is one of SoE Devs' favorite past-time.
My mains a Druid, everyone of my skills can be better performed by another class, so why would anyone want them for groups? (you can answer that)
If you truly think your class is under-balanced then start a productive thread stating the facts about lack of skills and solutions at the official SoE boards and try and do something about it. Class balancing is one of SoE Devs' favorite past-time.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Chantertime took a risk posting his/her point of view on this. As a former chanter main (x2) I see alot of truth in what some others called a "whine". (edit: but I see her point upon rereading the thread, so I rated her up too).
I retired my first chanter when cap was 65 (at 65) and have retired another one since coming back on a new server. Charm soloing is good (great) again --but many people that rolled chanters made them to group. Chanter is a group utility class that has arguably been supplanted by gear, potions and lobby buffing.
While many have defended the chanter class is this thread (you are the enlightened), it is extremely difficult to be viable in the under 65 (75?) grouping game as a chanter today --unless you have a great guild (you know, the type that will play with you no matter what class you are even if they already have 2 in the group).
Outside of the good guild, next to nobody wants a mez. Groups offtank and/or overtank with a much higher level tank. I have heard people ooc for a shammy/beast slower and not want a chanter... (their loss)
The sublety of chanters has been lost to the vast majority of players and its not really any players fault. In a typical pick up group (and we know that's not usually the most efficent scenario) by the time a chanter has cast their slow most mobs are nearly dead --this means the chanter has contributed no DPS to the kill unless they have control of the animation pet or it's the super-rare group that likes charm. This is not a gripe, its just the nature of the game now.
Chanters have a role in raids. I was highly encouraged to level my newer chanter by a guild because they wanted another tasher... A good raid guild has a few uber chanters to do more than just tash of course --but I include that comment to show the attitude an up-and-coming character was getting. My impression is that most raid-guild chanter mains are characters that have been around awhile.
Chanters are becoming an endangered species in EQ. If you took away the buff alts and just counted mains (take out the only-raiders to really see it) there isn't that many active chanters loose in the game (I feel kind of the same way about rogues as well).
Some steps have been made to try and fix the general appeal of the class... charm soloing xp un-nerfs, auras, SoF spells/aas but it is a really hard one to balance because of how well a skilled charm-soloer can do already.
I agree that chanters and chanter fans need to post on o-boards for positive changes. My wishes from my chanter days:
-reduce the level of feedback (damage shield spell) and add at least 5 ranks to the line. Make it stack with all other damage shields. Make a group version.
-give me more dots that stack with each other and other classes dots... dots are dangerous for a soloing chanter to use. This is the single best way to up chanter dps without making everyone reroll solo chanters because they are super overpowered when charm soloing --if that is even a concern anymore. Unless they are fast casting though... they won't help in typical grouping.
-half the damage and cast time of the insanity line of nukes. Ideally don't half the damage but the cast time is the bigger issue. Take the stun component that works on next to nothing post GoD off the nukes (at least the lower level ones) and/or provide an additional line of nukes so chanters in groups can chip away at mobs --if you half the cast and keep the stun its too much of a taunt probably.
-move all beneficial group spells down 10-15 levels for the chanter. Many casuals play less time a night than good KEI lasts. Most people have chanter buffs from lobby that are over there level if they were only buffed in a group their range. Keep KEI above the lowbie spell cap (or not?).
-make the chanter AC buff stack with all other ac buffs.
-put shiny bob (animation pet) on steroids.
-provide a new burst line of slows (still not as good % as shammy, but fast casting) or reduce the time it takes to cast current slows. This makes it more dangerous... and more effective.
-increase the power of rune and remove the lower level reagent use. Or just require one reagent in inventory... since the elite just have stacks of them anyways. Chaining rune is powerful.
-stop coding npc to be immune to alliance line. Chanters are supposed to be able to slyly complete quests.
-add depth to the enchant line by letting chanters make norent utility items based on chanter spells and basic needs (i.e., Jacinth of alliance is 1 charge of alliance, enchanted rabbit meat is a minor hp buff, etc.)
-code more benefit into illusions and make more of them group castable prior to aa (i.e., put the Iksar regen on illusion Iksar, make the elemental illusions group castable).
-make chanter debuffs noticably strong (sorry zek server) so groups truly appreciate them.
-combine spell lines (both beneficial and detrimental) so that having a chanter means using fewer buff slots used to accomplish the same thing. With detrimental, put the various weaken, sapping etc. spells together and/or onto the new dots. Make mez weaken over time... to a set bottom --can't have a remezzing exploit after all.
That's all I remember without asking for mage pets, fd, snare, temp and so on...
...ironically if they implemented all of my suggestions a grouping chanter would have to play more with more skill since they are able to act fast (nukes, slows, etc.)and therefore draw more aggro.
Edited, Feb 17th 2008 10:19am by snailish
I retired my first chanter when cap was 65 (at 65) and have retired another one since coming back on a new server. Charm soloing is good (great) again --but many people that rolled chanters made them to group. Chanter is a group utility class that has arguably been supplanted by gear, potions and lobby buffing.
While many have defended the chanter class is this thread (you are the enlightened), it is extremely difficult to be viable in the under 65 (75?) grouping game as a chanter today --unless you have a great guild (you know, the type that will play with you no matter what class you are even if they already have 2 in the group).
Outside of the good guild, next to nobody wants a mez. Groups offtank and/or overtank with a much higher level tank. I have heard people ooc for a shammy/beast slower and not want a chanter... (their loss)
The sublety of chanters has been lost to the vast majority of players and its not really any players fault. In a typical pick up group (and we know that's not usually the most efficent scenario) by the time a chanter has cast their slow most mobs are nearly dead --this means the chanter has contributed no DPS to the kill unless they have control of the animation pet or it's the super-rare group that likes charm. This is not a gripe, its just the nature of the game now.
Chanters have a role in raids. I was highly encouraged to level my newer chanter by a guild because they wanted another tasher... A good raid guild has a few uber chanters to do more than just tash of course --but I include that comment to show the attitude an up-and-coming character was getting. My impression is that most raid-guild chanter mains are characters that have been around awhile.
Chanters are becoming an endangered species in EQ. If you took away the buff alts and just counted mains (take out the only-raiders to really see it) there isn't that many active chanters loose in the game (I feel kind of the same way about rogues as well).
Some steps have been made to try and fix the general appeal of the class... charm soloing xp un-nerfs, auras, SoF spells/aas but it is a really hard one to balance because of how well a skilled charm-soloer can do already.
I agree that chanters and chanter fans need to post on o-boards for positive changes. My wishes from my chanter days:
-reduce the level of feedback (damage shield spell) and add at least 5 ranks to the line. Make it stack with all other damage shields. Make a group version.
-give me more dots that stack with each other and other classes dots... dots are dangerous for a soloing chanter to use. This is the single best way to up chanter dps without making everyone reroll solo chanters because they are super overpowered when charm soloing --if that is even a concern anymore. Unless they are fast casting though... they won't help in typical grouping.
-half the damage and cast time of the insanity line of nukes. Ideally don't half the damage but the cast time is the bigger issue. Take the stun component that works on next to nothing post GoD off the nukes (at least the lower level ones) and/or provide an additional line of nukes so chanters in groups can chip away at mobs --if you half the cast and keep the stun its too much of a taunt probably.
-move all beneficial group spells down 10-15 levels for the chanter. Many casuals play less time a night than good KEI lasts. Most people have chanter buffs from lobby that are over there level if they were only buffed in a group their range. Keep KEI above the lowbie spell cap (or not?).
-make the chanter AC buff stack with all other ac buffs.
-put shiny bob (animation pet) on steroids.
-provide a new burst line of slows (still not as good % as shammy, but fast casting) or reduce the time it takes to cast current slows. This makes it more dangerous... and more effective.
-increase the power of rune and remove the lower level reagent use. Or just require one reagent in inventory... since the elite just have stacks of them anyways. Chaining rune is powerful.
-stop coding npc to be immune to alliance line. Chanters are supposed to be able to slyly complete quests.
-add depth to the enchant line by letting chanters make norent utility items based on chanter spells and basic needs (i.e., Jacinth of alliance is 1 charge of alliance, enchanted rabbit meat is a minor hp buff, etc.)
-code more benefit into illusions and make more of them group castable prior to aa (i.e., put the Iksar regen on illusion Iksar, make the elemental illusions group castable).
-make chanter debuffs noticably strong (sorry zek server) so groups truly appreciate them.
-combine spell lines (both beneficial and detrimental) so that having a chanter means using fewer buff slots used to accomplish the same thing. With detrimental, put the various weaken, sapping etc. spells together and/or onto the new dots. Make mez weaken over time... to a set bottom --can't have a remezzing exploit after all.
That's all I remember without asking for mage pets, fd, snare, temp and so on...
...ironically if they implemented all of my suggestions a grouping chanter would have to play more with more skill since they are able to act fast (nukes, slows, etc.)and therefore draw more aggro.
Edited, Feb 17th 2008 10:19am by snailish
snailish the Irrelevant wrote:
Outside of the good guild, next to nobody wants a mez. Groups offtank and/or overtank with a much higher level tank. I have heard people ooc for a shammy/beast slower and not want a chanter... (their loss)
'sigh' I remember when pulling the throne room in CB WITHOUT a chanter was suicide.
I'd keep your chanty and find some people to play with who are willing to by-pass the seemingly easier mindset of 'tank everything', and let you do your work.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Thanks Snailish, good post. Managed to post that Chanters have a problem, without saying that they are useless, or "obsolete." I guess I am very prejudiced in the chanters favor, due to having the pleasure of grouping with and knowing several people who play their chanters very well. And, no, they were not in the group just to provide buffs. LMAO, as for Druids. They are awesome. I know a certain druid named Glaine, who is in the healing department as good as a cleric, and due to her other skills, such as snares, is even better than a cleric. Course, she has taken the time to learn how to play her toon well. That is probably the key, if you take the time to learn how to play your toon to its maximum potential, then you will be an asset in any group.
15 posts
My main is a cleric and my wife has a chanter for a main. Anytime she leaves out and we have no chanter the pulls and kills slow down. With the chanters tash and haste, pulls are steady and fast. My idea of the perfect group is cleric, chanter and warrior and then anything else for DPS. I like to group with all classes but the chanter saves me LOTS of mana in the form of heals and I usally notify the group that the pulls are going to have to slow a little when the chanter leaves out. Don't kid yourself, ask any cleric that knows what being a cleric is all about. Your class is first pick when I start a group.
Hmm - I've been playing for 6 years now and I always thought Chanters were Crowd Control. Granted, my druid main is only 70 and I don't play in Uber zones, and my alt chanter is only 48...but I LOVE chanters! I'd rather have the adds mezzed and tashed and mem blurred and waiting for the tank to hit em than try to fight/off tank a mess of mobs!
I LOVE playing my chanter in groups - I just have to remind the group how to help me do my job. I guess I am lucky in that I mostly group with friends who have quirky mindsets who do things outside that proverbial box and against conventional "wisdom". I have a couple friends who play chanters, and they joke about their DPS, but when we get an accidental 4 on a pull having them there is a lifesaver.
I don't raid much anymore - no RL time - and yeah I did notice a trend in off tanking everything. However in our guild I think it was more that we had 5 tank types and only one chanter who hardly had time to show up. In a raid I was not wanted for my druid DPS - and we get fairly decent nukes - I was wanted solely to keep the cleric in my group alive. Not my favorite role in game - but I had fun being a tourist in all sorts neat zones.
But off raid, I play my characters they way I want to and that is fun for me. And after 6 years I am blessed to have found a few like-minded friends. I wish the same for you, that you find people to group with who appreciate just how powerful a chanter really is. But you have to really know your class, and be intimate with everything you can do. That holds for everyone, in all classes.
Edited, Feb 17th 2008 4:41pm by Shiqra
Edited, Feb 22nd 2008 1:51pm by Shiqra
I LOVE playing my chanter in groups - I just have to remind the group how to help me do my job. I guess I am lucky in that I mostly group with friends who have quirky mindsets who do things outside that proverbial box and against conventional "wisdom". I have a couple friends who play chanters, and they joke about their DPS, but when we get an accidental 4 on a pull having them there is a lifesaver.
I don't raid much anymore - no RL time - and yeah I did notice a trend in off tanking everything. However in our guild I think it was more that we had 5 tank types and only one chanter who hardly had time to show up. In a raid I was not wanted for my druid DPS - and we get fairly decent nukes - I was wanted solely to keep the cleric in my group alive. Not my favorite role in game - but I had fun being a tourist in all sorts neat zones.
But off raid, I play my characters they way I want to and that is fun for me. And after 6 years I am blessed to have found a few like-minded friends. I wish the same for you, that you find people to group with who appreciate just how powerful a chanter really is. But you have to really know your class, and be intimate with everything you can do. That holds for everyone, in all classes.
Edited, Feb 17th 2008 4:41pm by Shiqra
Edited, Feb 22nd 2008 1:51pm by Shiqra
Keep in mind that much OOW and later group content has numerous unmezzable, unstunnable, and uncharmable mobs (and unslowable for that matter). Veteran chanters probably don't have much of a problem (well maybe a veteran level 51 chanter) unless they hate charm soloing and don't have any intelligent friends to group with.
As a newbie to a server it was discouraging in some ways (along the lines of the OP) though there was excitement in learning new zones and what I could charm, etc.. I played enchanter 40-65 when Ldon was new and felt a vital part of every group I was in. Maybe at level 75-80 you get that feeling back (though the original post suggests maybe no)?
I'm over it (because I like EQ more than any particular class loyalty), but I think it explains in part the decline of the class in general numbers. The allakhazam posters are far more knowledgable and understanding of the enchanter's unique assets than the current under 70 population.
My advice to any new and/or young chanter remains:
Love charming if you want to solo.
Use rune.
Make socials so your group knows what you are doing (advertising your usefulness).
build the groups yourself.
make friends and join a good guild (i.e., one that does stuff together).
If its not fun play for you play something else. Sometimes taking a break from a main helps too. This forum kind of has me wanting to dust off my new chanter and make some noise.
As a newbie to a server it was discouraging in some ways (along the lines of the OP) though there was excitement in learning new zones and what I could charm, etc.. I played enchanter 40-65 when Ldon was new and felt a vital part of every group I was in. Maybe at level 75-80 you get that feeling back (though the original post suggests maybe no)?
I'm over it (because I like EQ more than any particular class loyalty), but I think it explains in part the decline of the class in general numbers. The allakhazam posters are far more knowledgable and understanding of the enchanter's unique assets than the current under 70 population.
My advice to any new and/or young chanter remains:
Love charming if you want to solo.
Use rune.
Make socials so your group knows what you are doing (advertising your usefulness).
build the groups yourself.
make friends and join a good guild (i.e., one that does stuff together).
If its not fun play for you play something else. Sometimes taking a break from a main helps too. This forum kind of has me wanting to dust off my new chanter and make some noise.
I have pulled in Steam Factory several times and we are not the latest/greatest geared group of ppl. Enchanters here have saved the day several times. Often pulling a clean single will end up with a roamer caster add that arrives 45 seconds later. My mez wont always stick, and sometimes bad pathing or a runner/gater brings 4 more.
Enchanters are almost a must in Steam Factory
Enchanters are almost a must in Steam Factory
Yikes!! Add unsnareable/unrootable to unmezzable, uncharmable, and unslowable and you have mobs that take quite a lot of creative strategy and tactics to kill!
I knew they made a lot of raid content unmezzable, but did not know about the group stuff. I know I am running into more and more unsnareable mobs the newer the expansion zone I am in. Guess I need to do more research on Alla's and Illia's to stay on top of things :)
Still though, from the majority of the posts I see here, it seems the chanter is still a viable class; just have to find the niche. That is not always easy.
Snailish's advice is spot on though - I have socials made for all my mezz/slow etc spells, and rune is a LIFESAVER.
Now I have a craving for my enchanter - think I'll go play her next time I am on.
I knew they made a lot of raid content unmezzable, but did not know about the group stuff. I know I am running into more and more unsnareable mobs the newer the expansion zone I am in. Guess I need to do more research on Alla's and Illia's to stay on top of things :)
Still though, from the majority of the posts I see here, it seems the chanter is still a viable class; just have to find the niche. That is not always easy.
Snailish's advice is spot on though - I have socials made for all my mezz/slow etc spells, and rune is a LIFESAVER.
Now I have a craving for my enchanter - think I'll go play her next time I am on.
Quote:
Chantertime took a risk posting his/her point of view on this. As a former chanter main (x2) I see alot of truth in what some others called a "whine". (edit: but I see her point upon rereading the thread, so I rated her up too).
I retired my first chanter when cap was 65 (at 65) and have retired another one since coming back on a new server. Charm soloing is good (great) again --but many people that rolled chanters made them to group. Chanter is a group utility class that has arguably been supplanted by gear, potions and lobby buffing.
While many have defended the chanter class is this thread (you are the enlightened), it is extremely difficult to be viable in the under 65 (75?) grouping game as a chanter today --unless you have a great guild (you know, the type that will play with you no matter what class you are even if they already have 2 in the group).
Outside of the good guild, next to nobody wants a mez. Groups offtank and/or overtank with a much higher level tank. I have heard people ooc for a shammy/beast slower and not want a chanter... (their loss)
The sublety of chanters has been lost to the vast majority of players and its not really any players fault. In a typical pick up group (and we know that's not usually the most efficent scenario) by the time a chanter has cast their slow most mobs are nearly dead --this means the chanter has contributed no DPS to the kill unless they have control of the animation pet or it's the super-rare group that likes charm. This is not a gripe, its just the nature of the game now.
Chanters have a role in raids. I was highly encouraged to level my newer chanter by a guild because they wanted another tasher... A good raid guild has a few uber chanters to do more than just tash of course --but I include that comment to show the attitude an up-and-coming character was getting. My impression is that most raid-guild chanter mains are characters that have been around awhile.
Chanters are becoming an endangered species in EQ. If you took away the buff alts and just counted mains (take out the only-raiders to really see it) there isn't that many active chanters loose in the game (I feel kind of the same way about rogues as well).
Some steps have been made to try and fix the general appeal of the class... charm soloing xp un-nerfs, auras, SoF spells/aas but it is a really hard one to balance because of how well a skilled charm-soloer can do already.
I agree that chanters and chanter fans need to post on o-boards for positive changes. My wishes from my chanter days:
-reduce the level of feedback (damage shield spell) and add at least 5 ranks to the line. Make it stack with all other damage shields. Make a group version.
-give me more dots that stack with each other and other classes dots... dots are dangerous for a soloing chanter to use. This is the single best way to up chanter dps without making everyone reroll solo chanters because they are super overpowered when charm soloing --if that is even a concern anymore. Unless they are fast casting though... they won't help in typical grouping.
-half the damage and cast time of the insanity line of nukes. Ideally don't half the damage but the cast time is the bigger issue. Take the stun component that works on next to nothing post GoD off the nukes (at least the lower level ones) and/or provide an additional line of nukes so chanters in groups can chip away at mobs --if you half the cast and keep the stun its too much of a taunt probably.
-move all beneficial group spells down 10-15 levels for the chanter. Many casuals play less time a night than good KEI lasts. Most people have chanter buffs from lobby that are over there level if they were only buffed in a group their range. Keep KEI above the lowbie spell cap (or not?).
-make the chanter AC buff stack with all other ac buffs.
-put shiny bob (animation pet) on steroids.
-provide a new burst line of slows (still not as good % as shammy, but fast casting) or reduce the time it takes to cast current slows. This makes it more dangerous... and more effective.
-increase the power of rune and remove the lower level reagent use. Or just require one reagent in inventory... since the elite just have stacks of them anyways. Chaining rune is powerful.
-stop coding npc to be immune to alliance line. Chanters are supposed to be able to slyly complete quests.
-add depth to the enchant line by letting chanters make norent utility items based on chanter spells and basic needs (i.e., Jacinth of alliance is 1 charge of alliance, enchanted rabbit meat is a minor hp buff, etc.)
-code more benefit into illusions and make more of them group castable prior to aa (i.e., put the Iksar regen on illusion Iksar, make the elemental illusions group castable).
-make chanter debuffs noticably strong (sorry zek server) so groups truly appreciate them.
-combine spell lines (both beneficial and detrimental) so that having a chanter means using fewer buff slots used to accomplish the same thing. With detrimental, put the various weaken, sapping etc. spells together and/or onto the new dots. Make mez weaken over time... to a set bottom --can't have a remezzing exploit after all.
That's all I remember without asking for mage pets, fd, snare, temp and so on...
...ironically if they implemented all of my suggestions a grouping chanter would have to play more with more skill since they are able to act fast (nukes, slows, etc.)and therefore draw more aggro.
I retired my first chanter when cap was 65 (at 65) and have retired another one since coming back on a new server. Charm soloing is good (great) again --but many people that rolled chanters made them to group. Chanter is a group utility class that has arguably been supplanted by gear, potions and lobby buffing.
While many have defended the chanter class is this thread (you are the enlightened), it is extremely difficult to be viable in the under 65 (75?) grouping game as a chanter today --unless you have a great guild (you know, the type that will play with you no matter what class you are even if they already have 2 in the group).
Outside of the good guild, next to nobody wants a mez. Groups offtank and/or overtank with a much higher level tank. I have heard people ooc for a shammy/beast slower and not want a chanter... (their loss)
The sublety of chanters has been lost to the vast majority of players and its not really any players fault. In a typical pick up group (and we know that's not usually the most efficent scenario) by the time a chanter has cast their slow most mobs are nearly dead --this means the chanter has contributed no DPS to the kill unless they have control of the animation pet or it's the super-rare group that likes charm. This is not a gripe, its just the nature of the game now.
Chanters have a role in raids. I was highly encouraged to level my newer chanter by a guild because they wanted another tasher... A good raid guild has a few uber chanters to do more than just tash of course --but I include that comment to show the attitude an up-and-coming character was getting. My impression is that most raid-guild chanter mains are characters that have been around awhile.
Chanters are becoming an endangered species in EQ. If you took away the buff alts and just counted mains (take out the only-raiders to really see it) there isn't that many active chanters loose in the game (I feel kind of the same way about rogues as well).
Some steps have been made to try and fix the general appeal of the class... charm soloing xp un-nerfs, auras, SoF spells/aas but it is a really hard one to balance because of how well a skilled charm-soloer can do already.
I agree that chanters and chanter fans need to post on o-boards for positive changes. My wishes from my chanter days:
-reduce the level of feedback (damage shield spell) and add at least 5 ranks to the line. Make it stack with all other damage shields. Make a group version.
-give me more dots that stack with each other and other classes dots... dots are dangerous for a soloing chanter to use. This is the single best way to up chanter dps without making everyone reroll solo chanters because they are super overpowered when charm soloing --if that is even a concern anymore. Unless they are fast casting though... they won't help in typical grouping.
-half the damage and cast time of the insanity line of nukes. Ideally don't half the damage but the cast time is the bigger issue. Take the stun component that works on next to nothing post GoD off the nukes (at least the lower level ones) and/or provide an additional line of nukes so chanters in groups can chip away at mobs --if you half the cast and keep the stun its too much of a taunt probably.
-move all beneficial group spells down 10-15 levels for the chanter. Many casuals play less time a night than good KEI lasts. Most people have chanter buffs from lobby that are over there level if they were only buffed in a group their range. Keep KEI above the lowbie spell cap (or not?).
-make the chanter AC buff stack with all other ac buffs.
-put shiny bob (animation pet) on steroids.
-provide a new burst line of slows (still not as good % as shammy, but fast casting) or reduce the time it takes to cast current slows. This makes it more dangerous... and more effective.
-increase the power of rune and remove the lower level reagent use. Or just require one reagent in inventory... since the elite just have stacks of them anyways. Chaining rune is powerful.
-stop coding npc to be immune to alliance line. Chanters are supposed to be able to slyly complete quests.
-add depth to the enchant line by letting chanters make norent utility items based on chanter spells and basic needs (i.e., Jacinth of alliance is 1 charge of alliance, enchanted rabbit meat is a minor hp buff, etc.)
-code more benefit into illusions and make more of them group castable prior to aa (i.e., put the Iksar regen on illusion Iksar, make the elemental illusions group castable).
-make chanter debuffs noticably strong (sorry zek server) so groups truly appreciate them.
-combine spell lines (both beneficial and detrimental) so that having a chanter means using fewer buff slots used to accomplish the same thing. With detrimental, put the various weaken, sapping etc. spells together and/or onto the new dots. Make mez weaken over time... to a set bottom --can't have a remezzing exploit after all.
That's all I remember without asking for mage pets, fd, snare, temp and so on...
...ironically if they implemented all of my suggestions a grouping chanter would have to play more with more skill since they are able to act fast (nukes, slows, etc.)and therefore draw more aggro.
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply. Since you last played an Enchanter when the level cap was 65, you may not be aware of the fact that at least one of your suggestions was met. The cast time of our slow spells is now 1.5 seconds and has a resist modifier (-30). The drawback is the duration (15 ticks) and the recovery time should be spell be resisted (1 tick).
And I'm sorry that people view this as a "whine." It is the recognition that my class has changed. Not necessarily for the better, or the worse, but just changed. A guide once commented to me that she considered Enchanters to be the "most difficult class to master, and the most dependent on the group." (Bards, I think, might be harder to master, but the fact that they wear plate, have more hitpoints, and are the fastest class on Norrath, makes the game more forgiving of their mistakes.)
Group dependency is no longer the case. I have soloed three levels and at least 400 AAs since the latest expansion. What makes it possible for me? The simple addition of two very special AAs: Beguiler's Directed Banishment and Beguiler's Banishment. They do the same thing, but the former is single targeted while the latter is an AoE that strikes random opponents in the immediate area. Both of these effects knock the opponent back, then root (if the mob is rootable), and then blurs it. So, it removes your opponent from striking range, then causes them to forget you. It takes one tick to recover the directed version, two ticks to recover the AoE.
So, who needs a group? I find a suitable candidate for charming (the grizzly bears in Loping Plains, for instance), get a safe distance away and let fly with Tash. The mob, of course, charges me. And I almost feel sorry for him. Pitiful attempt really, since he will not reach me. Beguiler's directed banishment knocks him back and binds him in place. Long enough for me to charm. The root is short, so it's only a wait of one or two ticks before it breaks and your mob is ready to fight for you.
Charm break? Again, keep your distance while your charmed mob fights for you. If the charm breaks and you have two enraged mobs determined to disembowel you, let go with the AoE version. Two mobs are sent flying, and since they're both already Tashed, simply reclaim your "pet" and finish the job.
We also get a HoT for our pets that I accidentally discovered will heal your charmed mob, too. Companion's Blessing, I think it's called.
Finally, to the person who suggested that I shouldn't play my class if I didn't like it. I didn't say I didn't like it. I simply said that I'm seeing my obsolescence in a group setting. On the contrary, I'm enjoying my class immensely. And I'm playing him in ways that I never thought I would.
One more thing. You raise a very valid point about the mezz. No one likes it. Least of all the Enchanter himself. The inclination to off-tank makes mezzing a downright foolish thing to do. Some off-tank will break the mezz, but that mezz has placed you at the very top of the mob's hate list. I was once doing an aug run in Anguish, using my new Ward of Bedazzlement spell. (You may be unfamiliar with this. It's a self-only buff that procs a mezz on mobs that strike me.) I attempted a mezz, but it was resisted. The mob came after me, and the group's Monk, I'm certain only meaning to protect me, attacked the mob. But he kept breaking the mezz that "Ward" was proccing. And since Ward apparently has all the aggro generation of an actual mezz, the mob pulped me.
For this reason, I consider mezzing to be a very bad idea. The situation is simply too fragile for a very fragile class. One hit and the unmezzed mob comes after you.
Shiney Bob has been put on steroids, in a way. He is still right where he is in the lineup of pets, weaker than all of them save that of the Druid, Shadowknight, and barely the Shaman. But the rank 1 version does still quad for 210, bashes, kicks and enrages.
15 posts
I have never played a chanter and have only gone to level 71 with my cleric. So I'm still a ways from the top zones of the game. I still believe the chanter is a great choice in a group. Me, having a cleric for a main, have heard "can't use a cleric we have a healer already (meaning either a druid or shaman) we need DPS". It's disappointing to say the least especially when good groups are hard to come by. My wife plays a chanter as a main and she has been picked over for a shaman before but has had really good luck getting groups. I feel that a chanter should NOT be a liability for a GOOD group.
Off tanking, I've watched it done and its a waste of the groups resources. The reason being, two mobs with two tanks fighting, the healers mana is now split between two tanks that both have aggro and both taking equal damage. Making the possibility of having to use costly quick heals inevitable. My mana going from full up to single digits with only two or three mobs to show for it, but then have to med up before more are pulled. The scenario I like is, three mobs pulled, chanter mezz two and all tanks and DPS work one down with one tank keeping full aggro. Plenty of time to space out the complete heals and the heals will last forever with extra left over for when things go unexpected. Like a quick heal for the chanter if the mezz breaks early or a caster draws aggro. The mobs go down easy (they get interrupted more) and there is no or little down time.
The shamans slow is great along with everything else they can do. But I don't really buy into the fact that they can completely replace the chanter. I prefer to think that the game has been designed so that the classes are intertwined. Say a cleric can't be found by a group so instead of them just being out of business theres a druid and a pally that can handle the task of heals. Or no warrior to be found but theres a shadowknight and with the casters pets and a good healer theres a good group to be had.
Like I said in my earlier post, my idea of a great group is a cleric, chanter and warrior for starters and then anything else for DPS after that. But thats from a clerics point of view also. I have not played a chanter but I have played six other classes and they all have their own styles and they can all be replaced by a similar class in a group setting. But if there is no chanter there will be less crowd control and the group will have to deal with it. I'm puzzled why anyone would hold out for a shaman when a chanter is at the ready.
I don't feel like I'm any kind of authority on this subject, just offering my thoughts on the matter for the sake of discussion. Please take it just as that and nothing more.
Off tanking, I've watched it done and its a waste of the groups resources. The reason being, two mobs with two tanks fighting, the healers mana is now split between two tanks that both have aggro and both taking equal damage. Making the possibility of having to use costly quick heals inevitable. My mana going from full up to single digits with only two or three mobs to show for it, but then have to med up before more are pulled. The scenario I like is, three mobs pulled, chanter mezz two and all tanks and DPS work one down with one tank keeping full aggro. Plenty of time to space out the complete heals and the heals will last forever with extra left over for when things go unexpected. Like a quick heal for the chanter if the mezz breaks early or a caster draws aggro. The mobs go down easy (they get interrupted more) and there is no or little down time.
The shamans slow is great along with everything else they can do. But I don't really buy into the fact that they can completely replace the chanter. I prefer to think that the game has been designed so that the classes are intertwined. Say a cleric can't be found by a group so instead of them just being out of business theres a druid and a pally that can handle the task of heals. Or no warrior to be found but theres a shadowknight and with the casters pets and a good healer theres a good group to be had.
Like I said in my earlier post, my idea of a great group is a cleric, chanter and warrior for starters and then anything else for DPS after that. But thats from a clerics point of view also. I have not played a chanter but I have played six other classes and they all have their own styles and they can all be replaced by a similar class in a group setting. But if there is no chanter there will be less crowd control and the group will have to deal with it. I'm puzzled why anyone would hold out for a shaman when a chanter is at the ready.
I don't feel like I'm any kind of authority on this subject, just offering my thoughts on the matter for the sake of discussion. Please take it just as that and nothing more.
Quote:
One more thing. You raise a very valid point about the mezz. No one likes it. Least of all the Enchanter himself. The inclination to off-tank makes mezzing a downright foolish thing to do. Some off-tank will break the mezz, but that mezz has placed you at the very top of the mob's hate list. I was once doing an aug run in Anguish, using my new Ward of Bedazzlement spell. (You may be unfamiliar with this. It's a self-only buff that procs a mezz on mobs that strike me.) I attempted a mezz, but it was resisted. The mob came after me, and the group's Monk, I'm certain only meaning to protect me, attacked the mob. But he kept breaking the mezz that "Ward" was proccing. And since Ward apparently has all the aggro generation of an actual mezz, the mob pulped me.
For this reason, I consider mezzing to be a very bad idea. The situation is simply too fragile for a very fragile class. One hit and the unmezzed mob comes after you.
For this reason, I consider mezzing to be a very bad idea. The situation is simply too fragile for a very fragile class. One hit and the unmezzed mob comes after you.
On your mezzing thing,offtanks that break mez,fail. Plain and simple. They need to know how to do their job. Same goes for dps IE the said monk.
People who know what their doing,stun,taunt,terror,bellow or whatever before mez is broke. Teach your tanks how to deal with mezzed mobs,and it will go much better. Same goes for teaching dps to assist (i swear,clicking one button has never been so hard for some people)
"a very fragile class" You have your runes,your 1.5 and 2.0's for when sh*t hits the fan. but again,please teach people how to play their classes so you can do your job.
Edited, Feb 18th 2008 2:08am by MortredSoulrend
I never mezz without following it with memblur. And if you can place yourself JUST right, and the mem blur works, if the mez breaks they go after who is nearest, having forgot all about you...
I went into the Hole with a monk friend who was in his 50s, and while he beat up the easier mobs I mezzed his adds (the mezzable ones) and when they woke up they went after him until I got em mezzed again. What a rush. Yeah - we died a couple times - he got cocky and pulled a few TOO many...but wow - when it worked it was amazing. And I kept rune on me the whole time so i could take a hit. Runed him if he got beat up too badly, too.
I think a lot of classes get that feeling. I've been turned down for a cleric, and I guess now clerics get turned down for druids (why I have no idea). Mort's right. Sometimes you have to educate people about what your job is. Off tanking in a group is quite inefficient - and that's from a healer's point of view.
I went into the Hole with a monk friend who was in his 50s, and while he beat up the easier mobs I mezzed his adds (the mezzable ones) and when they woke up they went after him until I got em mezzed again. What a rush. Yeah - we died a couple times - he got cocky and pulled a few TOO many...but wow - when it worked it was amazing. And I kept rune on me the whole time so i could take a hit. Runed him if he got beat up too badly, too.
I think a lot of classes get that feeling. I've been turned down for a cleric, and I guess now clerics get turned down for druids (why I have no idea). Mort's right. Sometimes you have to educate people about what your job is. Off tanking in a group is quite inefficient - and that's from a healer's point of view.
15 posts
Agree with MortredSoulrend
When I am group leader I usually designate a main assist, that tank will have the job of keeping the aggro. Everyone elses job is to assist that tank and not attack anything else. Whoever doesn't do that is politely asked to make an assist hot button.
My wife on her chanter has a hot button she uses every time she mezzes a mob. Reads something like "a raging chimera HAS BEEN MEZZED DO NOT TOUCH!!!". If someone breaks the mezz on purpose more than once then the message gets spamed. And if she takes a fall because of it she finds another group and they can see what its like to not have crowd control.
There was one time in particular when that was happening in WoS. The guy wouldn't listen and she left. I tried to stick it out as cleric knowing that the end result would probably be bad. Then it happened, more than one and no option to mezz and no one to slow. My mana went below halfway with neither mob even close to being down trying to keep two tanks alive. At 30% I began broadcasting that I was low on mana still neither mob down yet. The other DPS were working on different mobs because there was no coordination, so all the damage was being split between the two. Then... we've all been there, you know you're gonna wipe but you stay in just to watch the mobs lick your bones from above. First one tank then the other then they ran from one caster to the next till all were dead. After that they made a victory lap over our dead bodies before going back where they came from.
Res in GL, group broke, tells came in to reform without the guy that didn't want to assist. We quickly picked up another DPS and had a excellent group for the rest of the evening.
Edited, Feb 18th 2008 2:46am by Namehas
When I am group leader I usually designate a main assist, that tank will have the job of keeping the aggro. Everyone elses job is to assist that tank and not attack anything else. Whoever doesn't do that is politely asked to make an assist hot button.
My wife on her chanter has a hot button she uses every time she mezzes a mob. Reads something like "a raging chimera HAS BEEN MEZZED DO NOT TOUCH!!!". If someone breaks the mezz on purpose more than once then the message gets spamed. And if she takes a fall because of it she finds another group and they can see what its like to not have crowd control.
There was one time in particular when that was happening in WoS. The guy wouldn't listen and she left. I tried to stick it out as cleric knowing that the end result would probably be bad. Then it happened, more than one and no option to mezz and no one to slow. My mana went below halfway with neither mob even close to being down trying to keep two tanks alive. At 30% I began broadcasting that I was low on mana still neither mob down yet. The other DPS were working on different mobs because there was no coordination, so all the damage was being split between the two. Then... we've all been there, you know you're gonna wipe but you stay in just to watch the mobs lick your bones from above. First one tank then the other then they ran from one caster to the next till all were dead. After that they made a victory lap over our dead bodies before going back where they came from.
Res in GL, group broke, tells came in to reform without the guy that didn't want to assist. We quickly picked up another DPS and had a excellent group for the rest of the evening.
Edited, Feb 18th 2008 2:46am by Namehas
I am glad to hear chanter slows were adjusted.
One other thing that caused issues in the past was the bracketing of spells. Back in the day it happened to me like this:
Good XP camp 62-65 was Bastion of Thunder, but Chanter couldn't mez the mobs until 65. Groups were generally okay about taking a couple of 62-64 people but as the chanter you couldn't do cc.
I seem to recall this hiccup happening in the 50s (Ldons with group spread for example) as well, where the typical group content would have half the mobs beyond the level range of mez and stun.
This was the worst in-game advertising for the chanter class possible (Not that chanter's that never rune or call mezzes help the cause, and they seem to be the norm among the lower ones I have met the past year).
While it makes sense for charm to not go well beyond your current level, if enchanters were the one class that could pacify, mez,and stun well beyond (and in original game they could)their level that would be a good fix to do (unless they already did and snuck it by me since I paid close attention to enchanter patch messages).
By the way... it sounds like they have done some amazing things for the 75+ enchanter.
My newer chanter soloed and charm-duoed (with a cleric) to 56. Finding friends that like charm can make grouping a real rush.
One other thing that caused issues in the past was the bracketing of spells. Back in the day it happened to me like this:
Good XP camp 62-65 was Bastion of Thunder, but Chanter couldn't mez the mobs until 65. Groups were generally okay about taking a couple of 62-64 people but as the chanter you couldn't do cc.
I seem to recall this hiccup happening in the 50s (Ldons with group spread for example) as well, where the typical group content would have half the mobs beyond the level range of mez and stun.
This was the worst in-game advertising for the chanter class possible (Not that chanter's that never rune or call mezzes help the cause, and they seem to be the norm among the lower ones I have met the past year).
While it makes sense for charm to not go well beyond your current level, if enchanters were the one class that could pacify, mez,and stun well beyond (and in original game they could)their level that would be a good fix to do (unless they already did and snuck it by me since I paid close attention to enchanter patch messages).
By the way... it sounds like they have done some amazing things for the 75+ enchanter.
My newer chanter soloed and charm-duoed (with a cleric) to 56. Finding friends that like charm can make grouping a real rush.
ChanterTime wrote:
No one likes it. Least of all the Enchanter himself. The inclination to off-tank makes mezzing a downright foolish thing to do. Some off-tank will break the mezz, but that mezz has placed you at the very top of the mob's hate list. I was once doing an aug run in Anguish, using my new Ward of Bedazzlement spell. (You may be unfamiliar with this. It's a self-only buff that procs a mezz on mobs that strike me.) I attempted a mezz, but it was resisted. The mob came after me, and the group's Monk, I'm certain only meaning to protect me, attacked the mob. But he kept breaking the mezz that "Ward" was proccing. And since Ward apparently has all the aggro generation of an actual mezz, the mob pulped me.
For this reason, I consider mezzing to be a very bad idea. The situation is simply too fragile for a very fragile class. One hit and the unmezzed mob comes after you.
For this reason, I consider mezzing to be a very bad idea. The situation is simply too fragile for a very fragile class. One hit and the unmezzed mob comes after you.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Wow. If I can choose one class and one class only to duo with, it's a chanty. I have a trio that I regularly group with--me (68 pally), 65 druid and 66 chanty, and the AAs that I rack up are unbelievable. Easy to get one AA every half hour.
Chanty's clarity and haste buffs are fantastic and I simply cannot find enough of them. I think there should be a lot more chantys. I might even make a chanty myself one day.
/.02
Chanty's clarity and haste buffs are fantastic and I simply cannot find enough of them. I think there should be a lot more chantys. I might even make a chanty myself one day.
/.02
Elinda, Star Breaker wrote:
My mains a Druid, everyone of my skills can be better performed by another class, so why would anyone want them for groups? (you can answer that)
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Aye, Jophiel, especially the view from the posterior aspect.
I've noticed a trend in MMO's to eschew finesse for overpowering.
In the first few years of EQ enchanters were a MUST almost anywhere. Chanters made things go so smoothly it was unreal.
As the OP stated, all that has changed. With better gear, AA's, and certain new spells - many newish mmo players don't even know how to finesse play. When I briefly tried EQ2 I remember being yelled at for yelling at people for breaking mez. These other guys didn't want a chanter in group and refused to respect the mezzing - saying they wanted to speed kill - and that you DIDN'T HAVE TO MEZ - and that further IT SLOWED THE GAME DOWN TOO MUCH.
And these crack-addict-like, immature fiends were right. In most eq2 settings you did not need to mez. You could just overpower encounters. And it did go faster /twitch /twitch.
WoW, ironically, does require some cc in higher end encounters - and is therefore more subtle than eq2. But no game is more subtle than original EQ (which no longer exists). There are new players who don't get what chanters and mezzing are for - coming back after years away, I've only run into a handful of players who know how to raid. Most peoples' version of raiding is "well, just throw the 75 SK at it and toss the odd heal on him - don't worry, we'll win." Kinda sucks.
So I'm not calling the OP a whiner. Those of you who did - I really think you need to rethink your position on this. I know exactly what the OP is talking about. The Chanter has gone from being a top-level highly-desire group necessity to an outcast, about as welcome in most groups as a druid (or less so, heck, the druid can heal and can nuke like a gimped wiz - the Chanter can't even nuke like a gimped wiz).
OP is right. Much of the game has been changed so that the Chanter is not needed like he or she once was. And it's a darn shame. Talk about real skill - playing Chanter was VERY demanding.
OP, if I were you I'd try duoing with a druid some time. Well, I assume you can still charm things over lvl 70. If the druid snares it and you charm it, you can rip things up. With your target and your charmed minion both snared, when charm breaks, it's pretty trivial to reapply. I used to do this, and it was a ton of fun. People would come over and see the pile of bodies we left behind and be amazed (back in old eq, many years ago - when even full groups sometimes had trouble leaving piles of bodies - it truly was a DIFFERENT game back then!).
GL OP. You've put way too much work into this char to abandon him. Ask around. Try to find smart people on your server. Try to find older players who remember the power of the chanter - because if you can mez, if the mobs are mezzable, you really can empower the group to do more than they normally could. The class's magic is not all gone. You may just have to wake up to the fact that you may need to "sell yourself" - that you may need to do a little advertizing to get work - where before work came to you. I used to play druid (and do again), so believe me - I know what I'm talking about. You can make this work. Go try!
Edited, Feb 19th 2008 2:34am by IponemaGirl
In the first few years of EQ enchanters were a MUST almost anywhere. Chanters made things go so smoothly it was unreal.
As the OP stated, all that has changed. With better gear, AA's, and certain new spells - many newish mmo players don't even know how to finesse play. When I briefly tried EQ2 I remember being yelled at for yelling at people for breaking mez. These other guys didn't want a chanter in group and refused to respect the mezzing - saying they wanted to speed kill - and that you DIDN'T HAVE TO MEZ - and that further IT SLOWED THE GAME DOWN TOO MUCH.
And these crack-addict-like, immature fiends were right. In most eq2 settings you did not need to mez. You could just overpower encounters. And it did go faster /twitch /twitch.
WoW, ironically, does require some cc in higher end encounters - and is therefore more subtle than eq2. But no game is more subtle than original EQ (which no longer exists). There are new players who don't get what chanters and mezzing are for - coming back after years away, I've only run into a handful of players who know how to raid. Most peoples' version of raiding is "well, just throw the 75 SK at it and toss the odd heal on him - don't worry, we'll win." Kinda sucks.
So I'm not calling the OP a whiner. Those of you who did - I really think you need to rethink your position on this. I know exactly what the OP is talking about. The Chanter has gone from being a top-level highly-desire group necessity to an outcast, about as welcome in most groups as a druid (or less so, heck, the druid can heal and can nuke like a gimped wiz - the Chanter can't even nuke like a gimped wiz).
OP is right. Much of the game has been changed so that the Chanter is not needed like he or she once was. And it's a darn shame. Talk about real skill - playing Chanter was VERY demanding.
OP, if I were you I'd try duoing with a druid some time. Well, I assume you can still charm things over lvl 70. If the druid snares it and you charm it, you can rip things up. With your target and your charmed minion both snared, when charm breaks, it's pretty trivial to reapply. I used to do this, and it was a ton of fun. People would come over and see the pile of bodies we left behind and be amazed (back in old eq, many years ago - when even full groups sometimes had trouble leaving piles of bodies - it truly was a DIFFERENT game back then!).
GL OP. You've put way too much work into this char to abandon him. Ask around. Try to find smart people on your server. Try to find older players who remember the power of the chanter - because if you can mez, if the mobs are mezzable, you really can empower the group to do more than they normally could. The class's magic is not all gone. You may just have to wake up to the fact that you may need to "sell yourself" - that you may need to do a little advertizing to get work - where before work came to you. I used to play druid (and do again), so believe me - I know what I'm talking about. You can make this work. Go try!
Edited, Feb 19th 2008 2:34am by IponemaGirl
Scholar
27 posts
Quote:
Six hours of "haste, please," "KEI, please," and I was thinking, "Shoot me now, please.
QFT
I retired my chanter a couple months ago. My guild was an anguish/pre demi raid guild at the time. Short of standing around buffing people for hours on end there really wasnt much to do. Toss a mana flare on the wizzie and 2 mages, rinse repeat.
It really sucks that with mudflation and lack of scripts that require mezzing mobs (circa PoP), there really isnt much for a chanter to do. Sure.. I can solo AA all day long in Icefall, but its not what I pay 15 bucks a month for. My chanter was my baby, but lack of any kind of tuning in the past 3 years or so has left me no choice, but to change what I play.
It's a shame that most of the player base doesnt understand what a chanter can provide to a group in the right circumstances, provided the mobs you are near can be charmed. Even if there are charmable mobs around that a decent chanter can control and use for decent dps most people nix it because they are afraid.
Warrior_01: That thing is going to break charm and kill us all.
Cleric_01: Yea...dont worry about charming anything...the risk isnt worth it.
I still dust my chanter off from time to time to help on a raid if we are short a chanter.....thats happens about 1 time every 2 months.
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