As my pally gets higher and higher in levels, she is of course exploring better and better zones. Case in point, Dragonscale Hills. What a cool zone! Obviously the newness of the zone and the drops are going to attract a very large audience. Even though I've only been there a few times, almost each visit results in some sort of camp fight.
Example: I was in a full group camping the farm. All was well. Suddenly all of our mobs started disappearing. We look on the far corner and an 80 tooned had camped there, no camp check, no tells indicating what he was doing, just plopped himself down and started taking mobs from our camp. Worse, he was pulling the named. It probably wasn't very ladylike but I called him out in /ooc and he made himself look like an even bigger *** because, hello, no camp check, don't try to justify yourself. Period. But I digress. One of our group members trained him, and we didn't have much trouble with him after that. *Please note that I am not condoning this behavior, merely relaying the facts.*
Then last night I went with one other toon just to duo, did a camp check, found out the farm was camped so I sent a polite tell to the leader asking if I could camp in the corner and pull singles for the two of us. The leader said sure, no problem. We were being very nice, staying out of the other group's way (4 people) and one of their group members started sending me nasty tells. I politely explained that I had permission from the group leader. He backed off a little, and after a few minutes they asked us to join, which we did, and all were happy. Until someone showed up and asked if they could camp the corner and single pull. The group leader said yes. Me, now being in the group, saw the other group member (who sent me nasty tells originally) gripe and moan constantly about the mobs the single player was pulling. The group leader, and myself, both agreed that A) they asked permission and were granted and B) it's crowded and sometimes you just gotta share.
So all of this rambling is really just to provoke some discussion on politics in overcrowded zones. What's right? What's wrong? As much as I'd like to hoard all of the "cool" mobs for myself, how does one play fairly? I want to be courteous and conscientous of my fellow players, but I will not be taken advantage of. At the same time, I don't want to take advantage of anyone else. If you camp steal and then defend yourself as if you were in the right, yeah, I'm probably going to give you an /ooc ***** slap. Ladylike? No. Nice? No. Do I feel better afterward? Yes.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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the politics of overcrowded zonesFollow
Well, before I get on a long winding diatribe.....
Let me just quickly post this in response.
There are two "laws". EQ/Sony law and Server/Player Law.
EQ/Sony law states that there is no such thing as camps. While there is a play nice component to EQ/Sony law the only mob(s) that EQ/Sony will recognize as belonging to any given player / group / raid are the mob(s) currently engaged. In other words, the mob has agro on you / your raid / your group. Like it or hate it, use it or abuse it, this is their stance.
Server/Player law is what you are now encountering. The "common" notion is that there are camps. Just what constitutes a camp will change from server to server and even year to year. As the ability for a standard group to kill increases so does it's needed scope of mobs in that "camp". It's also common that there are camp checks, requests to share, etc. In the end, it all comes down to reputation. If you or your guild doesn’t really care about your reputation then pull away. If you do, you will naturally want to find amicable solutions to sharing.
[Edit: Bad spelling PWD me.]
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 2:06pm by Rundle
Let me just quickly post this in response.
There are two "laws". EQ/Sony law and Server/Player Law.
EQ/Sony law states that there is no such thing as camps. While there is a play nice component to EQ/Sony law the only mob(s) that EQ/Sony will recognize as belonging to any given player / group / raid are the mob(s) currently engaged. In other words, the mob has agro on you / your raid / your group. Like it or hate it, use it or abuse it, this is their stance.
Server/Player law is what you are now encountering. The "common" notion is that there are camps. Just what constitutes a camp will change from server to server and even year to year. As the ability for a standard group to kill increases so does it's needed scope of mobs in that "camp". It's also common that there are camp checks, requests to share, etc. In the end, it all comes down to reputation. If you or your guild doesn’t really care about your reputation then pull away. If you do, you will naturally want to find amicable solutions to sharing.
[Edit: Bad spelling PWD me.]
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 2:06pm by Rundle
The basic unwritten rules are as Rundle state. However, SOE doesn't support them and they are often tough to judicate in-game. There are many extenuating circumstance.
I figure if I'm arguing with someone over a camp, I'm not having much fun.
Even if it's MY camp, and MY mob, unless it's something I've been at for hours and really need, I'll just go elsewhere. There is no shortage of places to grind xp and mobs to camp.
It's just easier.
Intentional training people, btw, is punishable by SoE.
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 8:56pm by Elinda
I figure if I'm arguing with someone over a camp, I'm not having much fun.
Even if it's MY camp, and MY mob, unless it's something I've been at for hours and really need, I'll just go elsewhere. There is no shortage of places to grind xp and mobs to camp.
It's just easier.
Intentional training people, btw, is punishable by SoE.
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 8:56pm by Elinda
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
This goes a loonnnngggg way back. In the early days of the game -post Beta, the world was much smaller and the player numbers much higher for the amount of space available.
There was avery popuylar camp in Lake Rath just as you come out of the tunnel to the arena. The 2 birdhouses each have one bird. We would split the camp and one group would pull the bird on the right aand the samller birds on the ground to the right - and other group would do the same on the left. A simalar situation, later on, was splitting the Spires in SK into 4 seperate camps - with everyone honoring each others rights to specific boundaries between the camps and how the mobs pathed. When they moved the original inhabitants out of Splitpaw Lair thqt became impossible due to pathing.
So, the player "laws" were created in order to deal with a very crowded, and in some ways much more fun, envoirment. However, I have no desire to go back to corpse runs, etc. It was a very different game "in those days". It is still a great game, in my opinion, just different. I think that due to the increase in size of the game the changes that we have had were necessary, and I applaud most of them.
What has happened is the social norms have changed a lot with more players feeling that if they are first in a zone, the entire zone belongs to them. I would say e-bayers - but we all know there is no such thing - just like the sun doesn't rise every morning.
Dyciere, and a whole bunch of other toons
There was avery popuylar camp in Lake Rath just as you come out of the tunnel to the arena. The 2 birdhouses each have one bird. We would split the camp and one group would pull the bird on the right aand the samller birds on the ground to the right - and other group would do the same on the left. A simalar situation, later on, was splitting the Spires in SK into 4 seperate camps - with everyone honoring each others rights to specific boundaries between the camps and how the mobs pathed. When they moved the original inhabitants out of Splitpaw Lair thqt became impossible due to pathing.
So, the player "laws" were created in order to deal with a very crowded, and in some ways much more fun, envoirment. However, I have no desire to go back to corpse runs, etc. It was a very different game "in those days". It is still a great game, in my opinion, just different. I think that due to the increase in size of the game the changes that we have had were necessary, and I applaud most of them.
What has happened is the social norms have changed a lot with more players feeling that if they are first in a zone, the entire zone belongs to them. I would say e-bayers - but we all know there is no such thing - just like the sun doesn't rise every morning.
Dyciere, and a whole bunch of other toons
The "farm" is a bad spot on almost all servers.. peeps do NOT camp so much for XP, but for an easy way to farm faction and complete tasks for parts for the "Face Aug"... Ther are lots of other camps in DSH and you can also go over to Looping Plains which has evern more camps at about the same difficulity level.. There must be 15+ place to camp in LP.. They are NEVER all full..
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 4:09pm by thurvok
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 4:09pm by thurvok
Some things are obvious to me.
If someone or some group is sitting by a single mob encampment of 5 static spawns waiting for the next spawn, THEN this spot is theirs. Dont even bother asking them if you can pull something, because they are already there waiting for the next spawn to pop to pull.
If a group is next to the 'farm' and is pulling any number of the 12 static beetle spawns, 5 roamer scarecrow spawns, 5 roamer bird spawns, 3 roamer oversee'er spawns, 2 static mechano-arachnid spawn,... THEN I dont even bother asking, I just set up on some far side and pull something thats up so I can increase more strike force faction. If they want a named item drop, fine, I could care less. Come loot this one laying here also and clean that 25ac aug off the dead beetle next to me while you are at it.
A couple times I am pulling something and on the way back to the side it shoots off and follows another puller. Some ppl hate this but I could care less and just pull a diff mob. It takes longer to argue about a pull/KS than it does to kill 2 more diff mobs. It takes much longer to train someone out of frustration then it does to kill 2 more mobs.
If you are pulling mobs from the farm and 3 groups of ppl are around the farm, and there are no mobs but you see 3 pullers all cursing/threatening each other in the middle of the empty field,... Now thats funny. I would find that situation inefficient and move on to something else more efficient. No time to argue or /ooc about someone being 'bad'. I dont need to stand there with nothing to kill.
Those named spawn so often that the price for the Adornment of Frenzy is 200p in bazaar!!! There is literally 20-25 of them for sale at any hour of the day from 5k to 200p prices. I got one of just about every type of named loot on every one of my alts and traders waitng to move the stuff in bazaar. I gave away 6 pcs in the guild hall to ppl's alts just for the asking because it was clogging up my bags.
When going for brownie rebel faction I often just leave my aoe regen song on and hang around the back side of groups at the mino camps. This only works if they are fast pulling otherwise I get bored and move on. Often I also sing slows and mez's and jump in to assist at 30% to help encourage more reckless pulling hehe. Its an efficiency thing and often ppl enjoy what they are considering a powerlevel.
Its more efficient for me to not pull minos but its more efficient for me to pull crows/beetles/scarecrows. Exp gained from light blues is bad to miserable so thats not a concern.
The 'zone/player/server politics' you mention are just that. Its just courteous to not take the next mob someone is working toward. Its just silly to claim an entire zone or area as your own when there are obviously too many mobs for you to handle since I see them all walking around still and you have 2 mezd and are killing a 3rd.
cleared static spawns with ppl waiting next to them for the next pop is a 'camp' thats claimed and not to be encroached by you. Open roamer mobs that are roaming around a zone with no player chasing them are free for the picking.
If you come to a spot that normally has 8 mobs and none are up and you see 1 pop, that becomes a gray area. If in the next minute someone comes by and says they are camping this and another area, then I just say 'hey sorry didnt see you, I'm gone after this mob is dead.'
If you come to a spot that normally has 15 green or white mobs and none are up but there is a lvl 80 monk in the zone cleaning the entire zone of these lvl 45 mobs. You are free to ask him if you can help with faction or some drop or whatnot. He will likely appreciate someone to talk to in his frustration at not getting something he was looking for yet. The instant he gets the drop he needs he will gate and not even bother looting a single copper off any other mob. Many lore and no-drop items will be laying around in this path of destruction!
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 1:30pm by kirbyramz
If someone or some group is sitting by a single mob encampment of 5 static spawns waiting for the next spawn, THEN this spot is theirs. Dont even bother asking them if you can pull something, because they are already there waiting for the next spawn to pop to pull.
If a group is next to the 'farm' and is pulling any number of the 12 static beetle spawns, 5 roamer scarecrow spawns, 5 roamer bird spawns, 3 roamer oversee'er spawns, 2 static mechano-arachnid spawn,... THEN I dont even bother asking, I just set up on some far side and pull something thats up so I can increase more strike force faction. If they want a named item drop, fine, I could care less. Come loot this one laying here also and clean that 25ac aug off the dead beetle next to me while you are at it.
A couple times I am pulling something and on the way back to the side it shoots off and follows another puller. Some ppl hate this but I could care less and just pull a diff mob. It takes longer to argue about a pull/KS than it does to kill 2 more diff mobs. It takes much longer to train someone out of frustration then it does to kill 2 more mobs.
If you are pulling mobs from the farm and 3 groups of ppl are around the farm, and there are no mobs but you see 3 pullers all cursing/threatening each other in the middle of the empty field,... Now thats funny. I would find that situation inefficient and move on to something else more efficient. No time to argue or /ooc about someone being 'bad'. I dont need to stand there with nothing to kill.
Those named spawn so often that the price for the Adornment of Frenzy is 200p in bazaar!!! There is literally 20-25 of them for sale at any hour of the day from 5k to 200p prices. I got one of just about every type of named loot on every one of my alts and traders waitng to move the stuff in bazaar. I gave away 6 pcs in the guild hall to ppl's alts just for the asking because it was clogging up my bags.
When going for brownie rebel faction I often just leave my aoe regen song on and hang around the back side of groups at the mino camps. This only works if they are fast pulling otherwise I get bored and move on. Often I also sing slows and mez's and jump in to assist at 30% to help encourage more reckless pulling hehe. Its an efficiency thing and often ppl enjoy what they are considering a powerlevel.
Its more efficient for me to not pull minos but its more efficient for me to pull crows/beetles/scarecrows. Exp gained from light blues is bad to miserable so thats not a concern.
The 'zone/player/server politics' you mention are just that. Its just courteous to not take the next mob someone is working toward. Its just silly to claim an entire zone or area as your own when there are obviously too many mobs for you to handle since I see them all walking around still and you have 2 mezd and are killing a 3rd.
cleared static spawns with ppl waiting next to them for the next pop is a 'camp' thats claimed and not to be encroached by you. Open roamer mobs that are roaming around a zone with no player chasing them are free for the picking.
If you come to a spot that normally has 8 mobs and none are up and you see 1 pop, that becomes a gray area. If in the next minute someone comes by and says they are camping this and another area, then I just say 'hey sorry didnt see you, I'm gone after this mob is dead.'
If you come to a spot that normally has 15 green or white mobs and none are up but there is a lvl 80 monk in the zone cleaning the entire zone of these lvl 45 mobs. You are free to ask him if you can help with faction or some drop or whatnot. He will likely appreciate someone to talk to in his frustration at not getting something he was looking for yet. The instant he gets the drop he needs he will gate and not even bother looting a single copper off any other mob. Many lore and no-drop items will be laying around in this path of destruction!
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 1:30pm by kirbyramz
LOL, well, I think that about covers it! Lower Guk used to be extremely bad with people chain camping the Ykesha. There would actually be a waiting list. Anyway, /OOC "Camp Check" is actually a hot key for me. One particular place that I still camp every now and then is the alcoves in Wall of Slaughter. I like to farm my runes from there. Quite a few named pop around that area. If a group comes in and asks to share, I dont mind. If a group comes and just take over, I usually dont mind too much since there are several named. If they train me, I make them aware that I am there, just in case they didnt see me. If the training continues, then I repay the favor with a vengeance. I know, I know, its punishable, and two wrongs dont make a right, but I do it in hopes they will learn a little consideration. For a period of about a week, I would log on, and start to hunt there, and after about 45 minutes the same group of 6 would show up and just start taking over. I even adjusted the time I logged on to an earlier time to avoid them, but they still logged on just after I did, for an entire week. After killing me with trains for the 6th or 7th time, I got just too frustrated, and repaid the favor bout 4 times in succession. I didnt see them again. During the entire time, not one tell came my way from them. Not one. I later learned through a friend that the group was a online service that would get you all of your runes for a price.
If the mob is up for longer than 30 secs, it is uncamped. If the group/player can't kill the mobs fast enough to grab a new pop shortly after it spawns, then the mob is uncamped. For example...
A group is clearing 15 mobs; however, mobs #1 repops while they are killing mob #10. The group goes ahead and kills #11, #12, #13, #14, and #15 before ever worrying about #1. The group should cut back on the number of mobs it is killing to fit their DPS.
A group is clearing 15 mobs; however, mobs #1 repops while they are killing mob #10. The group goes ahead and kills #11, #12, #13, #14, and #15 before ever worrying about #1. The group should cut back on the number of mobs it is killing to fit their DPS.
Pinzarn wrote:
If the mob is up for longer than 30 secs, it is uncamped. If the group/player can't kill the mobs fast enough to grab a new pop shortly after it spawns, then the mob is uncamped. For example...
A group is clearing 15 mobs; however, mobs #1 repops while they are killing mob #10. The group goes ahead and kills #11, #12, #13, #14, and #15 before ever worrying about #1. The group should cut back on the number of mobs it is killing to fit their DPS.
A group is clearing 15 mobs; however, mobs #1 repops while they are killing mob #10. The group goes ahead and kills #11, #12, #13, #14, and #15 before ever worrying about #1. The group should cut back on the number of mobs it is killing to fit their DPS.
That works, but only if the pull pattern fits correctly. In some camps, the static spawns are configured in such a way that if you don't pull them in the correct order, or you skip one or two, then the next time you run through, you'll get doubles/triples instead of singles. This is a big deal for soloers.
For example, if 11, 22, and 13 are close together, if I'm soloing an area, I'll want to make sure to kill each of them in order once I've broken them apart for the first time. And if 14 and 15 are positioned such that they are behind the other three, then I can't skip any of them or I'll get an add the next time through the loop. Now, maybe I could leave off the last two, but maybe if I do that, it'll leave a gap in the order somewhere else...
IMO, it's not about time specifically. I tend to look at spawn cycles. If a group/player is consistently taking out a given static mob within the time frame of a single spawn cycle, then that mob is "camped". Even if it's up for a few minutes before being pulled, that doesn't mean anything. Maybe the group took a 5 minutes afk break and they're going to resume in a minute and are behind in the pull order? Me, coming on the scene can't know that. And if I just start pulling the mobs that have popped while they were taking a quick break, they're going to miss them when they resume. And there's going to be conflict, and those "extra mobs" that I decided to camp will cease being extra mobs very very quickly...
Why bring that grief upon yourself. If I come to an area with a bunch of static mobs and all the mobs are spawned, then it's a good guess the area isn't camped. Anything less then that and I'm thinking about either finding another spot, or finding whomever is there and talking to them to see what we can work out. I would never just plop down and start killing mobs in that situation.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Very insightful post on the matter Gbaji, I agree.
I've always hated to even potentially infringe on someone's camp. Unless completely desperate/in need of a specific mob I'd rather leave a group plenty of breathing room rather than share possibly uncamped mobs.
I've always hated to even potentially infringe on someone's camp. Unless completely desperate/in need of a specific mob I'd rather leave a group plenty of breathing room rather than share possibly uncamped mobs.
Quote:
Obviously the newness of the zone and the drops are going to attract a very large audience
Yes and No.
The problem is that the only place for level 76 to 80 characters to get good xp is in the new zones. This is the #1 reason zones become overcrowded.
SOE needs to add "pockets" of high level mobs to older zones through patches to alleviate this problem. I would simply LOVE to spend all day in the revamped Commonlands or Misty Thicket. I'd even appreciate being able to stay in Icefall Glacier but even the Elder Mammoths are too low for good xp anymore.
After 16 years, I'm not listing every friggin character.
Reyla wrote:
Quote:
Obviously the newness of the zone and the drops are going to attract a very large audience
Yes and No.
The problem is that the only place for level 76 to 80 characters to get good xp is in the new zones. This is the #1 reason zones become overcrowded.
SOE needs to add "pockets" of high level mobs to older zones through patches to alleviate this problem. I would simply LOVE to spend all day in the revamped Commonlands or Misty Thicket. I'd even appreciate being able to stay in Icefall Glacier but even the Elder Mammoths are too low for good xp anymore.
They've got the revamp jitters since the backlash from Castle Mistmoore in my opinion. They followed the Nurga/Droga "let's increase a dungeons level and put the quest npcs in the surrounding lower zone model" and it might have been okay (if they had kept factions in the zone on the new mobs and/or ensure lots of the former Mistmoore mobs were actually up in Lfay at a time).
Has there been a revamp that wasn't basically just cosmetic since then?
Unless Devs do some decent lore work and major changes its hard to fit a level 80 zone overtop of existing low content. Level 80 Gfay would create some travel issues and break a lot of quests that some people still enjoy doing on low elves (for example). Its probably not worth the hassle in Sony's view.
What I would like...
...is a level 80 dungeon accessed off of GFay, another layer of najena that is high level (there's dead end doors waiting to be zone ins) and so on.
...the ldon instances were frankensteined together into 2 massive static dungeons per theme. Make one for each theme progress from 15-55, the other 55-80. Somehow retcon the points/vendors to work and be useful?
...steal an idea from the old Legend of Zelda game...(when you beat that game you could then go back and redefeat it with things all mixed up)
Put a stone in PoK to the "Plane of Discordant Shades" (or something), this puts you in a big black room with port stones to existing eq zones, except +50 to the level of mobs (and redraw loot tables). They could even release one "shade" zone a month. So month one is Discordant Crushbone level 60, next month we get Discordant Neth lair level 70 and so on...
Some of these zones would be insanely hard with the pathing and so on. Dvinn would be feared again...
RenaissanceKat wrote:
As my pally gets higher and higher in levels, she is of course exploring better and better zones. Case in point, Dragonscale Hills. What a cool zone! Obviously the newness of the zone and the drops are going to attract a very large audience. Even though I've only been there a few times, almost each visit results in some sort of camp fight.
Example: I was in a full group camping the farm. All was well. Suddenly all of our mobs started disappearing. We look on the far corner and an 80 tooned had camped there, no camp check, no tells indicating what he was doing, just plopped himself down and started taking mobs from our camp. Worse, he was pulling the named. It probably wasn't very ladylike but I called him out in /ooc and he made himself look like an even bigger *** because, hello, no camp check, don't try to justify yourself. Period. But I digress. One of our group members trained him, and we didn't have much trouble with him after that. *Please note that I am not condoning this behavior, merely relaying the facts.*
Then last night I went with one other toon just to duo, did a camp check, found out the farm was camped so I sent a polite tell to the leader asking if I could camp in the corner and pull singles for the two of us. The leader said sure, no problem. We were being very nice, staying out of the other group's way (4 people) and one of their group members started sending me nasty tells. I politely explained that I had permission from the group leader. He backed off a little, and after a few minutes they asked us to join, which we did, and all were happy. Until someone showed up and asked if they could camp the corner and single pull. The group leader said yes. Me, now being in the group, saw the other group member (who sent me nasty tells originally) gripe and moan constantly about the mobs the single player was pulling. The group leader, and myself, both agreed that A) they asked permission and were granted and B) it's crowded and sometimes you just gotta share.
So all of this rambling is really just to provoke some discussion on politics in overcrowded zones. What's right? What's wrong? As much as I'd like to hoard all of the "cool" mobs for myself, how does one play fairly? I want to be courteous and conscientous of my fellow players, but I will not be taken advantage of. At the same time, I don't want to take advantage of anyone else. If you camp steal and then defend yourself as if you were in the right, yeah, I'm probably going to give you an /ooc ***** slap. Ladylike? No. Nice? No. Do I feel better afterward? Yes.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
Example: I was in a full group camping the farm. All was well. Suddenly all of our mobs started disappearing. We look on the far corner and an 80 tooned had camped there, no camp check, no tells indicating what he was doing, just plopped himself down and started taking mobs from our camp. Worse, he was pulling the named. It probably wasn't very ladylike but I called him out in /ooc and he made himself look like an even bigger *** because, hello, no camp check, don't try to justify yourself. Period. But I digress. One of our group members trained him, and we didn't have much trouble with him after that. *Please note that I am not condoning this behavior, merely relaying the facts.*
Then last night I went with one other toon just to duo, did a camp check, found out the farm was camped so I sent a polite tell to the leader asking if I could camp in the corner and pull singles for the two of us. The leader said sure, no problem. We were being very nice, staying out of the other group's way (4 people) and one of their group members started sending me nasty tells. I politely explained that I had permission from the group leader. He backed off a little, and after a few minutes they asked us to join, which we did, and all were happy. Until someone showed up and asked if they could camp the corner and single pull. The group leader said yes. Me, now being in the group, saw the other group member (who sent me nasty tells originally) gripe and moan constantly about the mobs the single player was pulling. The group leader, and myself, both agreed that A) they asked permission and were granted and B) it's crowded and sometimes you just gotta share.
So all of this rambling is really just to provoke some discussion on politics in overcrowded zones. What's right? What's wrong? As much as I'd like to hoard all of the "cool" mobs for myself, how does one play fairly? I want to be courteous and conscientous of my fellow players, but I will not be taken advantage of. At the same time, I don't want to take advantage of anyone else. If you camp steal and then defend yourself as if you were in the right, yeah, I'm probably going to give you an /ooc ***** slap. Ladylike? No. Nice? No. Do I feel better afterward? Yes.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
Well to take a slightly different perspective on the OP situation. I believe that part of the problem comes from groups camping the wrong content. The farm was designed for a 70 to low 70s group to split at least two ways if not three, and not for a group of 80s to to cover the whole farm, everything is light blue to a level 80 and soloable. In addition if you are a group of 80s camping the farm for faction, then you are in the wrong place. Fort Mech will get you the same faction much faster and with better exp. There are a number of quests you can do in fort mech simultaneous including two slay several mobs and the 8 plus variations of Gearing Up. I did the gearing up quest about 100+ times in two weeks playing part time and got max faction and great exp both from the quest and the mobs that were killed. Multiple items for the gearing up quest drop from every clockwork mob in Fort Mech sometimes as many as 5-6 and even occasionally from the gnome mobs, the items all stack and can be pre-looted before getting the quest, as it is hand in only. Please note that a couple of the gearing up variations have the same hand in items, you can all variations at the same time and get credit for both quests by handing in one item.
Edited, Feb 7th 2008 3:08pm by fhrugby
Thinking back on the old days,i remember spliting up HHK basement into 4 segments.The stairs,the little side room off to the right,war room and raider room.So if you had the stairs you had 4 mobs.maybe 5 if you could work out a deal to get the warrior that poped down by the war room.LOL.No wonder it took so long to level back then.
Those were fun days.It didnt matter we only had 4 mobs to kill in a half hour.You would spend the other 28 minutes chatting with your group,throwing out zone wide insults or doing goofy things with your toon.Everyone was pretty new to the game so just being on was fun.
These days if someone starts pulling from my camp I dont even bother to say anything.I just pull what mobs I can and wait for him/her to leave due to lack of mobs in the camp.Back in the day I always kept an unguilded monk for situations like that but the game isnt THAT fun anymore to bother.lol.
Those were fun days.It didnt matter we only had 4 mobs to kill in a half hour.You would spend the other 28 minutes chatting with your group,throwing out zone wide insults or doing goofy things with your toon.Everyone was pretty new to the game so just being on was fun.
These days if someone starts pulling from my camp I dont even bother to say anything.I just pull what mobs I can and wait for him/her to leave due to lack of mobs in the camp.Back in the day I always kept an unguilded monk for situations like that but the game isnt THAT fun anymore to bother.lol.
I had another altercation in DSH last night; however, it was with the original offender from earlier. So now it's clear that he's just a selfish, inconsiderate player. I shouldn't condemn everyone for one jerk's actions.
But I'm still pissed about it.
But I'm still pissed about it.
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For example, if 11, 22, and 13 are close together, if I'm soloing an area, I'll want to make sure to kill each of them in order once I've broken them apart for the first time. And if 14 and 15 are positioned such that they are behind the other three, then I can't skip any of them or I'll get an add the next time through the loop. Now, maybe I could leave off the last two, but maybe if I do that, it'll leave a gap in the order somewhere else...
My comments were more in the lines of "I hate over-pulling groups". Especially in a popular zone, if a group is clearing more than they can kill in a given time period, I think they are being just as rude as someone taking "their" mobs. In an empty zone, pull as many as you want. There are plenty of mobs to go around.
Scholar
28 posts
Part of the change in attitude towars camps is - as far as I can see - a result of the interplay between changing expectation on the part of players relating to speed of progression and character development and ability (or rather "power", generally through gear).
I remember three full groups happily pulling in B1 in Palludal Caverns and spending a few nights there levelling. I turned up there a little while ago and boy - the place was being soloed and no way was he going to share. From three groups to a solo spot.
I am not making a judgement as to whether there is a right way or a wrong way to play (oh go on then, I am), but the fact that a.) a player can do it and b.) the player expects to be able to do it, means that that players interactions with others will be different. Perhaps SOE were just being far-sighted when they chose not to recognise camps... /cough
Ker
I remember three full groups happily pulling in B1 in Palludal Caverns and spending a few nights there levelling. I turned up there a little while ago and boy - the place was being soloed and no way was he going to share. From three groups to a solo spot.
I am not making a judgement as to whether there is a right way or a wrong way to play (oh go on then, I am), but the fact that a.) a player can do it and b.) the player expects to be able to do it, means that that players interactions with others will be different. Perhaps SOE were just being far-sighted when they chose not to recognise camps... /cough
Ker
the "Be Nice" official policy is just that. To me, being nice is asking when someone is done in an area if they will let me know because I will be somewhere else for the time being.
Sometimes it means that I would really like to share spawns. Sometimes it means I just need to loot 5 of x and I could care less about the kills. Sometimes I am just looking for faction and I invite everybody and their brother to my group so we can kill faster than just me soloing.
But in every case it means just communicating with other ppl and try to avoid confrotation.
Sometimes it means that I would really like to share spawns. Sometimes it means I just need to loot 5 of x and I could care less about the kills. Sometimes I am just looking for faction and I invite everybody and their brother to my group so we can kill faster than just me soloing.
But in every case it means just communicating with other ppl and try to avoid confrotation.
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Unless Devs do some decent lore work and major changes its hard to fit a level 80 zone overtop of existing low content. Level 80 Gfay would create some travel issues and break a lot of quests that some people still enjoy doing on low elves (for example). Its probably not worth the hassle in Sony's view.
You misunderstand what I meant.
The Shadowed Men in many zones are a good example. They were put in an out of the way corner in West Commons. Leel 1-10 people knew where they were and could avoid them, even when travelling.
The revamps of Mistmoor, Cazic Thule and other dungeons is not what I am looking for. G Fay is so vast it would be simple to add a camp of lv 75+ mobs to one corner that would not intersect travel routes or erase existing low level content.
Edited, Feb 12th 2008 4:56am by Reyla
After 16 years, I'm not listing every friggin character.
Reyla wrote:
You misunderstand what I meant.
The Shadowed Men in many zones are a good example. They were put in an out of the way corner in West Commons. Leel 1-10 people knew where they were and could avoid them, even when travelling.
The revamps of Mistmoor, Cazic Thule and other dungeons is not what I am looking for. G Fay is so vast it would be simple to add a camp of lv 75+ mobs to one corner that would not intersect travel routes or erase existing low level content.
Edited, Feb 12th 2008 4:56am by Reyla
My concern would be this creating more Pained Unicorn (or that annoying named griffon that paths into the lowbie part of Goru'Kar Mesa) situations.
Shadowed men is an interesting example but to my recollection they were the top level of the range the zone was stated for (i.e., 10-30 and so on) so bad news if you ran into them solo too soon, but not crazy-over-your-head for a group in the prime range of the zone.
Level 80 mob camp in GFay would /con "takes an army to defeat" to a level 5? Otherwise they are just as red as the other reds. Even then that is adding alot of potential risk into what was designed as a learning zone. I don't think it works for the newb zones --half of Scarlet Desert (as an example) would probably be fine.
Adding new guards (higher level) to all the old newb areas would be the sublime way to accomplish this idea of high-level camps in old areas though. One can always choose to kill guards (and take your deserved faction hits) but the unknowing is still safe in their newb zone.
The "newbie" zones outside of home cities and the like getting extremely high level mobs? No, never, bad idea.
Now if you want to throw those mobs in a mid levelish area where people are at least likely to be somewhat wary of a completely unstoppable danger to theirself, not quite as bad.
Personally it just sounds bad to me though, there are already a few zones out there in the low-mid level range that have a cluster of 70+ mobs and I've heard people complain about deaths countless times thanks to run ins with them. Be it from someone not knowing just how red of a red con that mob really was and attacking, or from accidental aggro, or from someone else using them as an extremely effective train to kill someone else off. If more lower level zones were like this I believe it would just further discourage people to hide out in the normal hotzone type areas and explore and adventure in the game even less.
Now if you want to throw those mobs in a mid levelish area where people are at least likely to be somewhat wary of a completely unstoppable danger to theirself, not quite as bad.
Personally it just sounds bad to me though, there are already a few zones out there in the low-mid level range that have a cluster of 70+ mobs and I've heard people complain about deaths countless times thanks to run ins with them. Be it from someone not knowing just how red of a red con that mob really was and attacking, or from accidental aggro, or from someone else using them as an extremely effective train to kill someone else off. If more lower level zones were like this I believe it would just further discourage people to hide out in the normal hotzone type areas and explore and adventure in the game even less.
15 posts
Well if the mobs are in abundance and my group can't kill them all then I have no problem. Mind you if they ask then thats a plus but really no need to if the mobs are there. If the mobs get scarce then they should be the first to leave for another spot. But to just move in and take over is not right, and they are the ones with the problem. I let them know my group was there first and there are not enough mobs to go around. If that doesn't work then the only thing to do is find somewhere else to go.
Back when I first started playing I was grouping in Paludal Caverns in the camp just inside from Shadow Haven. We were eating up the XP bonus and keeping the camp down. Then a higher level moved in and just started wiping out everything as soon as it popped up. Others in the group petitioned a GM after talking to him did no good. The GM showed up and told everyone that the camp would have to be shared and that there was to be no KSing. We wasted a lot of time and everyone was too pissed off to have fun after that so I swore I'd never stick around for anything like that again. Its just easier for me to go find another spot and leave the miserable to themselves. It has happened several other times but thats the one time that stands out because it ruined the mood for the evening.
Back when I first started playing I was grouping in Paludal Caverns in the camp just inside from Shadow Haven. We were eating up the XP bonus and keeping the camp down. Then a higher level moved in and just started wiping out everything as soon as it popped up. Others in the group petitioned a GM after talking to him did no good. The GM showed up and told everyone that the camp would have to be shared and that there was to be no KSing. We wasted a lot of time and everyone was too pissed off to have fun after that so I swore I'd never stick around for anything like that again. Its just easier for me to go find another spot and leave the miserable to themselves. It has happened several other times but thats the one time that stands out because it ruined the mood for the evening.
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Put a stone in PoK to the "Plane of Discordant Shades" (or something), this puts you in a big black room with port stones to existing eq zones, except +50 to the level of mobs (and redraw loot tables). They could even release one "shade" zone a month. So month one is Discordant Crushbone level 60, next month we get Discordant Neth lair level 70 and so on...
Merge all servers with zek imo!
Settle camps with pvp and trains <3
(kidding of course)
Duel people for your camps,though. It can be a blast~
Settle camps with pvp and trains <3
(kidding of course)
Duel people for your camps,though. It can be a blast~
A situation happened to me last night that is in the spirit of the OP:
I was soloing the 7 murks at dranik's scar zoneline on Noble's Causeway. I had 4 of them down as I was establishing my cycle (once I get rolling there is rarely 2 up at the same time).
A guilded (not a name I knew) group comes into the zone and stands in the middle of my kite path (group is 3 level 52s and a 75 wiz) and proceeds to pull 2 mobs (even dropping aggro of one onto me as they pulled it over me). Wizards cooks them instafast of course. My options:
1) freak out and cause a scene
2) freak out and train them with the under the bridge murks and get banned
3) leave
4) ask them to join me or to join them
5) politly point out that the rest of the zone was not camped and perhaps they could leave the 7 murk spawns for me.
I chose #5 and it worked (DS murks was not a good camp for there PL setup anyway /boggle). I didn't do #4 because they neither did a /ooc camp check nor sent me tells when they came --so my impression is that they were clowns.
If they had insisted on taking my camp I would have left. That's crummy when it happens, but its better than becoming a clown yourself aka #1 and #2.
I was soloing the 7 murks at dranik's scar zoneline on Noble's Causeway. I had 4 of them down as I was establishing my cycle (once I get rolling there is rarely 2 up at the same time).
A guilded (not a name I knew) group comes into the zone and stands in the middle of my kite path (group is 3 level 52s and a 75 wiz) and proceeds to pull 2 mobs (even dropping aggro of one onto me as they pulled it over me). Wizards cooks them instafast of course. My options:
1) freak out and cause a scene
2) freak out and train them with the under the bridge murks and get banned
3) leave
4) ask them to join me or to join them
5) politly point out that the rest of the zone was not camped and perhaps they could leave the 7 murk spawns for me.
I chose #5 and it worked (DS murks was not a good camp for there PL setup anyway /boggle). I didn't do #4 because they neither did a /ooc camp check nor sent me tells when they came --so my impression is that they were clowns.
If they had insisted on taking my camp I would have left. That's crummy when it happens, but its better than becoming a clown yourself aka #1 and #2.
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