pallies and why we cant pac..Follow

I think the gods hate paladins because you guys solo them and other raid encounters =)

Edited, Sep 23rd 2007 10:07am by farthorn

I would suspect there are several reasons. But remember for grouping at least if a Paladin could pacify to L75, and there are 16 classes, for 6 group spots. Don't you think in our min/max mentality, even more classes would not be invited, or created, to come to the party? Enchanters can pacify, is there anyone creating them, or inviting them to group? HELL NO.

Bottom line why give a class with that kind of damage mitigation, and ability to heal itself some, the ability to easily pull. Also if there were a add so what. That could be one reason of several, for why you cannot pacify post L55. And one good reason to boot.

We can only have 6 in the group, and there is 16 classes. A paladin puller means less need for a puller class, and less of them being created at L1.

I play a level 71 paladin as my main, and while I find it inconvenient for me personally, I do not find it unfair that Paci is no longer of true use at the highest levels of the game. Personnaly I believe we have plenty of strengths to make up for having "lost" one.

(Edit) Oh, and I enjoy grouping, just as much as I do not enjoy redundant Shadowrelm posts.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2007 7:57pm by Saeel

Yes. We get it. You don't like Shadow. You don't have to troll him and make a post every time he does explaining that he is wrong in his post.

People come here for help. This isn't help.

/agree Saeel. It does seem like Shadowrelm has an agenda, and won't let other people's advice, opinions or experiences influence his own. I fail to understand why Shadowrelm continues to post here, or even read the forum, when he obviouusly dislikes EQ, but hey, whatever floats your boat, bud.

But this suite has a neat feature; you can rate down posts you disagree with. If someone gets rated down enough, their posts will disappear.

And Dellan, if you want to hear about a class whose once 'unique' abilities were farmed out and what's left has been rendered useless by the inevitable mudflation, ask me about Archery sometime. But bring a deck chair and some dark glasses, it COULD take a while ;-)

I agree, certainly, that not all can do all the jobs and Paly's are tanks, not pullers.

I just wonder why they give Paly's the paci line up to 55..and not just as an occasional use type of spell. When I played a Paly my lull was very much a general use spell and not an occasional.."well all else has failed, lets try this" type thing. So the knight gets all hooked on the stuff and then gets it yanked away.

I think in EQ old game there were spells, and abilities, that should not have been handed out at all. But they were, and SOE corrected this over the years. I suspect, with no prove of course, that this spell line, was giving to paladins because Clerics, got the spell line too. But they realized over time, this was one spell line from a parent class, that was to powerful, in the hybrid class. Again it is conjecture. And again if paladins could have the upgrades, why do you even need several of the classes who's job is partially pulling? You don't then, 16 classes, 6 group spots. It's already bonked, why make it more so?

You guys are all right

Seriously, I just dont want the all negative attitude of Shadows to steer someone new to the game away from a game that I love to play.

We all admit that there are a number of things that drive us crazy about the game, but I know I come here to get information to HELP me play the game, not dis courage me further.

Elinda, Saeel, Sakreats, Wuverien,jonwin, bbot,Joph,Quad,Whitman,NAture,...all of them on countless occasions have shared their lessons in this forum, and helped me immensely.( sorry for misspellings or forgetting anyone) Even put me in my place when I have it all wrong

So, I have had my say ( probably too many times ) and I am done with Shadow. I truly hope he leaves this forum, and goes back to WOW, but if not, others can rebutt his idiocy better than I obviously have.

Looking forward to playing with the "new" group on Stromm.

Edited, Sep 24th 2007 10:23pm by yenwangweh

Edited, Sep 24th 2007 10:25pm by yenwangweh

The arguement paladins are tanks not pullers is BS... Shadowknights are tanks AND pullers... Their ability to combine FD pulls with snare and that they can take several hits make good shadowknights very GOOD pullers..

However I do feel giving paladins level 75 pacify ability would be unbalancing.. High level paladins once they have all ther healing AA's and a good healing foucs are group healing machines and are highly sought/needed in raids.. I know in our guilds raids I can keep my group alive a very long time..

At level 72 paladins now get a spell called Burst of Sunlight (BoS). This has added the ability of paladins to help keep the MT alive. It is a mini LoH and a good paladin will be able to target the mobs target ( i.e. the MT) and quickly (casting time is under 1 sec!!) cover a bad damage spike..

Combine that with the group curing ability/tanking ability/battle rezzing ability and we are in very good shape.. Our pacify ability was always 5-6 level behind clerics.. soo at best we would be able to pacify ~ level 71 or 2 ( assuming clerics can pacify up to leveo 76, 77).. I still can pull.. I root pull.. Now a days I am in many groups where fighting mobs 2-3 at a time is just expected ( outside of FC/AG).. While I would love to get pacify upgraded to at level level 65. Shrug.. I have learned to live with out it and do not feel slighted..

Edited, Sep 25th 2007 11:56am by thurvok

Edited, Sep 25th 2007 11:59am by thurvok

To be fair Pallies are Tanks AND Healers.

You talk at length about "Combine that with the group curing ability/tanking ability/battle rezzing ability and we are in very good shape" yet you want to intrude into pulling territory also?

I am baised. My class competes with pullers for groups.

Puller = Out of camp crowd control (OoCCC)
Chanter = In Camp crowd control (ICCC)

"Fixing" Pacify in LDoN ruined the Enchanter class, in my humple opinion anyway, as it was WORTHLESS before that other than harmony. Harmony was 2 classes and out doors only so it wasn't THAT big of a deal.

It made OoCCC much quicker and safer, while ICCC remained very dangerous. Add to that the content of many exspansions not needing any crowd control at all AND charm nerfs and it spelled sad times for Enchanters everywhere.

I don't mind competing with pullers for group slots that is fine. I just want to compete on even footing, and I DON'T like competing with tanks for that same slot.

Personally I hate it when tanks try and pull also. Too much lost time where the rest of the group is twitilng thier thumbs as the tank can't leave early to go get the next mob till this one dies.

I would like to see Pacify removed from the game entirely, including from my class.

Thurvok this is meant as a compliment to your class, not as a insult to you. It's directed at readers/posters, not just your post. But there is a reason SK can FD, and pull. Outside of two reasons for a puller, and I guess because there is no paladin around, at the moment. I personally see NO reason to take a SK, over a Paladin. None, zero, nada zip. Again unless we have no puller, and your paladin is not on right now.

Example 1: Your undead killing ability is A+, I mean when in archstone, or down on the beach in Barren Coast, TSS, other areas. Paladins make me feel useless, playing my cleric. I just want to go afk, turn on the t.v., and setup a voice macro for when you need me. The damage is awe inspiring. I feel like a gimp next to you. So do the rest of the classes. Add a little puma in there for added value. God!

Example 2: Bad pull 4-6 mobs in camp, everyone is having a bad day, and reacts badly. You can shine and save the day, unlike a ShadowKnight. You cast your group heal, get the aggro from all the mobs, seeing how you can, unlike the SK, heal. If you can, LOH on yourself. Situation resolved. Healing is aggro.

They get FD and snare because 1. There parent class has it. <necro> 2. They cannot heal ME, only grab aggro from me. You can heal, and grab aggro, in one button smash potentially.

God I love to have a well played Paladin in my group. Just need one who knows what they got, and uses it wisely. But hell that is true of any class I admit.

P.S. Again meant not as a insult, but a tribute to a well played Paladin. And more a responce to the readers of the tread, than to any poster of the thread.

Thanks to all for the many responses, from what I can tell from these posts we(pallies) lost the pac ability because SOE just decided to take it.. no rhyme .... no reason.. I wasn't askin because I feel the paladin deserves to be more uber.. or not having the ability makes us less uber.. I just was hoping that somewhere SOE had explained their reasoning... I feel that if they (soe) did not want us to have pac then they should have removed all spells in that branch instead of just stopping it after lvl 55. So again this was not a whine it was a search for any valid reason ever given.. obviously there was not one given.. and thanks to all for the responses that have been...

It does seem like that, but SOE tends not to fully explain why they do things (cause it'll cause them more trouble then it will solve really).

Paci was taken away because paladins wanted to be able to contribute more in other ways. As several people have pointed out, paladins gained a bunch of "new" abilities in the post 60 game that they didn't have before.

- Healing. Pre-60, paladin's best heal was superior healing. Which was pretty much useless at the level we got it. Post 60, paladins get HoTs, fast heals, and slower heals, all of which are much better (they're not just older versions of cleric spells anymore, but new lines of spells specially designed for paladin use).

- AE healing. This is huge really. The design was to give paladins more to do on raids. The sacrifice was that we lost a group/solo ability.

- Improved buffs. We gained the brells line of spells. Maybe not a huge deal, but it's a buff that a significant portion of any group/raid will want. Also, we gained a new self buff that improved our hp, ac, and gave us mana regen. This was designed to bring us more in line with warriors in terms of our actual tanking ability. Again, we lost our ability to pull, but in most groups, I'd rather be able to replace a warrior as a tank one for one then be able to pull situationally.


Some of us remember when paladins were literally bottom of the barrel for groups *and* raids. Paci made us desired for groups, but only for our pulling. We were still second rank tanks and 4th rank healers. Paladins asked for and got a number of new things that made us more able to contribute to groups and raid. The cost for that was that we lost pacify. IMO, it was a fair trade...