@ boxing on raidsFollow

In my opinion, many raids would not be possible without boxed characters. There are simply not enough people playing to fill all necessary roles these days.

That said, it is an argument very much in the grey area. Should a box have equal rights if it is an absolutley necessary part of the raid?

Example: A Cleric assigned to the main tank.

What about a box that is there as a bonus, not as a necessity?

Example: A Beastlord thrown in for some added DPS.

Very, very grey.

I totally agree with Whitman!

I think the question should be, Can the Boxing player do their job? If not then why are they boxing? If they play the character with skill then what is the diffrence?

How about the player who boxes but never says it. If they are good at it who whould know?

Just be clear in the guild rules. Changing in mid-stream will result in problems for some of the members no matter which way you go.

In my old raiding guild (at the time #3 on the server during PoP, GoD, OoW), we recruited based on someone's main character, and we planned raids based on the main characters. Points were only awarded to the main character.

Alts were never allowed on main raids (mandatory attendence for main characters). Now, if some loot was rotting, someone could bid for their alt if they can get their alt there fast enough to loot it. You used your main characters points for the item.

Occasionally, we'd have to fire up a healing bot or buff bot to have the raid. The guild leadership did not award any special points or favors to these bots. Their feeling was that if the bot didn't play, we wouldn't have a raid, no one would get points or loot. Definitely a hard line approach, but everyone knew the rule.

I agree with Piz...the guild just needs to state what the rules are clearly and go with it. Our guild is smaller, so we allow boxing and all who are there get loot rights. But I can also see where a guild might not see this is fair.

Just state it in advance, then have fun.

Totally off subject, but what does QFT mean. ( damn, feeling old and out fo touch.)

Ahh...thank you. So I dont need to be offended.

In my guild, boxes are allowed on raids only if the player has proven to be able to box efficiently in the past. Many don't bring their alts along unless we desperately need their particular abilities (ex: we had no crowd control at our last raid, so an offtank warrior brought along her boxed shaman). Alts are immediately dropped from the raid/group in favour of someone who wishes to attend with their main.

We don't have too many boxed alts on raids anymore, so I don't remember the last time anyone spent DKP on an alt. Alts are allowed to roll on loot in regular groups, and I believe are allowed to bid with DKP on raids.

The system we have works, though the rules about alts are clearly stated in the guild charter, which helps quite a bit.

Quite a few members have expressed this same view.

Terror Australis has always had a basic principle of wanting to be as inclusive as possible. One of our primary purposes as a guild is to provide a home for people who want to play in our time zone. So the idea of an alt disadvantaging someone who can't attend every raid really goes against what we are about.

(We are Australia/New Zealand based so time zone is around GMT +10, not the time slot for the highest gaming populationg going around we do have number of US military personel based in the Pacific/Asia region though.)

Interesting topic, and some interesting opinions. My opinion is very skewed towards boxing, but I'll give it anyway. I'm very good at running a tank with 2 priests to heal, I know when to lifetap and when every heal is going to land. If I were to raid I would want to bring my boxes because I heal me better than anyone else does. I would also expect dkp for it since I'm filling a tank and 2 healer roles regardless of only being one person. I don't think a guild should allow a boxer to share his dkp between his boxes though, that would seriously ***** everyone else over. I'm not much of a raider, my guild consists of 2 other couples that box with their spouses. Sometimes we get a few groups together to take down minor things like ragewind, colosses in skylance, etc. Summary: if the toon is played well and doing their job they should earn just as many dkp for being there as anyone else.

Actually the problem is not so much the numbers, but the variability of the numbers.

During the course of a year we go through periods where we have full raids and drop boxes to make room for all the mains. But then we go through periods where we need boxes just to hit Mystwalker or Narseekin. Drives the raid leaders frantic as you could imagine.

We have been trying a variation of one of the suggestions made here, where we have invited people who regularly play a second box in groups, to volanteer them as raid helpers. We did this via a list on the guild forum, this meant that the raid leader had a list of alts (helpers) that they could call on to fill gaps.

The helpers were not expected to perform to the level of a fully experienced second box, but to be able to help out, buffing, rezzing back up healing etc.

This seems to have worked well. But now it seems unfair to those people who put in the effort of keeping their alt geared up and raid worthy, but who earn no DKP and can't loot. Actually we do use the "open to all" method of bidding when no main or officail 2nd box has bid and the helpers can bid but have to use the main's DKP.

A compromise of sorts, but this depletes the mains DKP and leaves them with less chance to compete for the "good" loot. /sigh.

P.S. But having said that, yes we certainly would like about 10 more committed raiders.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2007 3:40am by Iluien

Edited, Jun 3rd 2007 3:42am by Iluien