whats wrong with EQFollow

Aye, drakkinfan, nothing was directed at you personally. If anything, you have been one of the most sensible people here arguing about the problems that EQ has.

As Srakeats mentioned, I was more ticked off with idiot posters like toronto and justinjolts.

I tried WoW for a month. I didn't like it. So, did I go to the WOW boards, create a new poster account and start ranting about how terrible WOW was? Nope, I canceled my account and switched back to EQ without posting. Why? Because as I have stated in so many other threads, everyone is different, and I respect that their play styles are different from mine.

I do apologize for the "personality check" crack. That was a post made in anger, and I didn't feel like expanding on my reasoning. There are a number of reasons why people can't get groups. One big reason is the size of this world. I don't care for 400 zones. I wish desperately they would reduce it down to say 200-250 zones. This game was created for grouping, and by their continual expansions, they hurt grouping because of the spreading out of groups.

The other big reason people seem to have problems finding groups is that they don't take the initiative to form their own groups. If you aren't willing to be the one to check the /lfg tool, and to find a guild for you, and friends, then I really don't want to hear about how SOE doesn't help you. This game really does require that you put some effort into it. But that is what I like about it. I don't want an easy game. I want to have to work for it.

As far as the "just go and leave already", you have to realize that threads like this are really old. I have been on this board for 5+ years (though obviously I don't post much) and for the last 2 years, there are always 2-3 of these threads on the front page. If you don't like the game, fine, but then be a man (or woman), and move on then. Trying to tear down those who don't want to leave is just petty and childish.

And finally, yes EQ is slowly declining. The fact that they don't put the new expansions in stores speaks loud and clear of what SOE thinks. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see a few more server merges before the end of this year. And since they don't like to fix bugs/issues, I don't expect that it will ever rebound. But I suspect that there are a lot of people out there like me who are willing to look over the faults of the game, and enjoy the experience.

<edit> LOL, I just read the post above this one :D. No, it is the one's who expect everything handed to them are the ones who actually bug me. Congrats if you put forth the effort to make a group, even if you are bossy <edit>

Edited, Mar 17th 2007 10:57am by mrwookie

I have to agree with the OP in that EQ caters too much to the power gamer.

Those people speak the loadest.

People use to deal with the crap things EQ threw at them back in the day because there was little big name competition.

WoW had changed all of that.

It is sad to see EQ go downhill because they chose not to adapt to what people want.

The loudest people are the hardcore power gamers but I would have to say they made of less then 10% of the players. Least from my experiences in all the MMOs I have played since 1999.

Back in the day MMOs could do about anything.

Now they need to balance the pain of time versus the fun of accomplishment. Senseless time sinks are a thing of the past. (Who remembers getting the call at 2:30 AM that Rage is up and it is our turn to kill him?) Now it is about putting fun in with time sinks or GREAT rewards for all invloved. The days of raiding 50 hours for two dozen drops of which none you need or got are gone.

Imo EQ still had what it needs to be a huge game. If they make it appeal to the masses.

The amount of stuff in EQ doubles at least the next best MMO. The amount of races, mobs, zones, classes, quest, and sotry OMG EQ is HUGER then anything out there.

If they would just make their game more consumer friendly.

EQ needs to do things like

1) Make leveling ALLOT easier then it is, specially before 65.

2) Remove exp lost on death. (I will not lie, loosing exp puts more "thrill" in the game. Not enough to get over "This party sucked so bad I just lost 8 hours of my life in exp lost". Take it away.

3) Introduce devices to help causual gamers. EQ did not totally ignore this (LDoN was the rage for a while) but I think other MMOs have done much more lately (rested exp, easy to solo but groups still have their place)

4) Show exp gained and lost in numerical form. In this paranoid society people will always think "Why do they refuse to disclose info other MMOs do? What are they hiding?"

5) Release regular free content upgrades. Sure it took WoW forever to release a expac but people tend to forget about all the free content that got released before that. I remember FFXI released free content upgrades every other month before WoW came out as well.

6) Have free events on regular basis. Anyone remember that Halloween event way back when? That was AWSOME. That is still one of my all time favorite MMO events.

7) Listen to ALL of your customers. In relation to WoW I can list well over 10 things that were changed to make the game better that I first saw on suggestion forums months before they went live.

8) Probably need to introduce some kind of PvP system like WoW battlegrounds. People love to fight other people on their own terms.


I can go on about small things that may seem to add "character" (exp loss on death, not seeing exp)to the game for the hardcore power gamer but they are annoying to the casual gamer.

WoW has catered to the casusal gamer. I remember when it came out every single hardcore gamer on Tholuxe said WoW would fail hard because it was too easy.

I am not saying you need to make the game easier then WoW. There needs to be a balance between pain to get the accomplishment and the accomplishment itself.

Make no mistake about it though, WoW's popularity is due in large part from EQ and if it was not so PAINFUL sometimes to play EQ then I doubt EQ would have ever fallen to what it is now. Or if EQ2 was less painful people would be playing more of that.

Sometimes I swear the people making the game plan decision for EQ were sadists.

- Anniversary Celebration
- Halloween Events
- Frostfell Tasks
- GM Events (although not on a regular basis)

There already are those events. Or do you mean regular like once a month?

No, the people who designed and developed the game were just traditional role-players trying to recreate the experience in a computer format. Whether or not a 'real' game world can be translated to video game format without either being insanely cumbersome or losing much of its realism for the sake of game play is probably a valid debate but it's obvious that McQuaid & Co. started with the intent of making the world as 'real' as possible for the sake of immersion.

It's not Vanguard that is the industry leader in the MMORPG world, and its not Vanguard that is pulling people away from EQ. OK Vanguard may have pulled a FEW people away from EQ.

Thanks for the heads up on Vanguard, though, I assure you I won't go NEAR it!
For those looking for a challenge even bigger than EQ is well I guess Vanguard is the place to go.

I think that Sael hit the nail on the head, and represents the thinking of both Sony and the community at large.

"I'd rather watch it slowly decline away than try to suddenly become something completely different."

On a practical note, if the EQ development team is as understaffed and overworked as I think they are, then slow decline sure beats quick death. I think that Rashere and Merloc and Ngreth and others have so much stuff to do, and have been working long overtime hours for so long, that they are just plain overly tired and possibly burnt out/mentally exhausted.

Consider the fact that most likely the Sony development team has 2 new high priority items to work on: the new expansion that will be out in 5 months, which is most likely in the coding phase, and the expansion after that, which is probably in the development phase. With all the energy that Sony is (likely) expending on the next two expansions, where do they find the time to work on current issues and bugs?

Being afraid to make changes because you may alienate people is like never trying because you may fail. No matter what you do some people will not like it.

Some gamers like "fighting tooth and nail" for every accomplishment. I feel the number of consumers who play MMOs that do not like this far outnumber the ones who do. Look at WoW's server number and population of each server.

With that said there are some buisnesses who stick to their guns no matter how little money they make. That is their choice to make obviously.

As to the events. I admit I have only been back a short time. The halloween event I refer to was something that hit nearly every zone, had something for all levels (loot for 20- 50 or 60 - this was either right before or after Luclin I can not remember) and exp bonus mobs for all levels. Even North Qeynos had undead that gave grip of exp to a level 6.

EQ is what it is now. And honestly I do not expect it to change.

All I am saying is if they changed it up to what people like (cater to the 60-70% instead of to the 10% power gamers) then there would be more servers, more players for people to interact with and more money for them to develop games.

Specially if a nice clever marketing plan of some type was implemented with this.


If it fails....well EQ just dies a little faster then it already is.

Seems the upside is way to good to ignore to me.


Edited, Mar 20th 2007 11:36pm by robito

Just tell me this, if SOE went and copied all these friendly game elements from WoW and alienates a very large (more than 10% would dislike it, I guarantee you.) amount of their current customerbase. Who in the world would want to play this older, more outdated game that has became a cheap knockoff of a game with a much larger established playerbase, and that in many ways is a much "prettier" game graphically?



And I by no means consider myself one of these "powergamers" you think are the only ones that would oppose the game losing some of its challenge.

I doubt I'll ever see my epic 2.0 (perhaps the 1.5 if I'm lucky) and that bothers me not...

...I've probably logged more hours in on the game helping others with quests or starting out on a new toon or giving assistance to lower levels by grouping with them in zones that make for very paltry experience for myself, no complaint about that either, just had fun helping others advance...

...The only true raiding I have ever done (aside from joining in on a couple of open epic 1.5 mobs to help someone) is in places that, even with multiple months of raidtime there, I haven't found a single gear upgrade whatsoever (and not for a lack of needing). Has that bothered me? No, im there for the thrill of raiding.

And the fact of the matter is, all the things that are fun with the game for me (and i'm not alone here, nor part of some simple 10%) wouldn't hold near as much value if the game was "x" amount easier.

You take away the penalties with death, say goodbye to the elation at surviving a pull gone wrong, or unexpected add(s).

Would I trade that one example for a game where I could be Max Level and Geared oh so much better and only have had to put part of the work the current EQ would require for it in? Never.

My main is only level 66 (in 2 years playing time) Do I wish that the trip this far had been faster and I could instead have level 75 for my effort, not at all.


Does that make me a powergamer? If so then I'm sure there are plenty more like me that wouldn't fit in your ideas of who would be turned away by such changes. 10% has a better chance of being an accurate number on the current EQ playerbase that spent time playing WoW instead of EQ and finding its game elements dull over time and coming back to EQ yet again.

None of this is an anti-WoW kind of thing, each game is its own entity and thats the idea I like. If people are wanting an easier game than EQ there are plenty out there to be found, I'd personally rather get to be greedy on this one and keep my "difficult" game to myself and the rest of the...ahem...10%

And not all the ideas you had were bad in the first place, but theres a ton of places SoE could start in making the game more appealing to pick up and play for the first time/return to again. Ripping off another MMORPG is way down the list, IMHO, it would be the quickest way to finally kill off the game.

There are many times many things right with EQ, so why are the server populations dropping? Reality Check here: most of us have been taught that newer is better, flash is grand, and uber is the end all.

Did anyone miss the journey getting there? Yea, about all those that play games that require minimal effort! Take chess, you know it, but you can spend a lifetime learning it. EQ is NOT like that, but sooooo mcuh closer than any other MMORPG.

I prefer games that have some edge to them. EQ has an edge, in too many places atm. Now if only SoE would hire an OUTSIDE consultant that KNOWS EQ to hone the places. Why outside? Beancounters within soe are ******** up the worx.

Longevity is a key, huge company support is another key, CREATIVITY is another key and the latter belongs ONLY to the expansions dept (and they have lost their minds imho - look at da Sea expansion, the pic is of a 17th century GUNNER ...cannons and all, rofl, completely Stoopid).

...and there are plenty of other games to cater right to those that aren't fans of such "harsh" penalties at death. A silly little change to a thing such as that won't be the savior of EQ.

That was my point, I play all the time, and enjoy the current "difficult" rules of the game...yet I'm not one of the "powergamers" that was being stated as the only ones who would disagree with such changes to the gameplay.

There is a difference between lack of options and putting up with it by choice. What I saw is a choice came around and EQ died very soon after. I am not saying EQ died because death exp loss (that is a no brainer). Add in another half dozen or so very player friendly gameplay features and I am sure the fact WoW is a much more player friendly game then all the other games (not just EQ) played a major role in why it is so huge.



Who knows if anything truly can bring EQ back to its glory days. Even if they did all the gameplay things I think players want I am not sure if people would put up with the lesser quality graphics.

I do think in terms of quality content EQ has allot of offer and allot more money can be made.

You are right, changing this one thing will not be the answer. Making 6-10 player friendly changes like this plus adding in a couple new things; then rolling it all up into a clever marketing scheme and I think good things can happen.

Obviously there are some people who think EQ should just follow its path to death and change nothing. Me, I think it is better to burn out then fade away. Go down swinging if you will.

If nothing else, who knows what can be learned for other games that have a future or games to be released in the future.

I haveto weigh on on this one. My wife and I have been playing forever it seems. The game just keeps getting better. Between us we have 3 sevenaccounts - all full of characters. Our mains are in thier 70.s and we find plenty to do allmost every night of the week. We don't belong to a guild and have never reaided. However we are able to hold our own when grouping with 75's that do raid and are raid drop equipped. Knowing the game and how to play your toon is a great leveler.

>>> Ask yourself, how enjoyable would the game be for you if you didnt have a fellow player living with you. That is a relatively rare and enviable situation.

As far as the game going away, I'm sure that it will one day. However that will probably be when I'm too old to see the keyboard - I have to look at it to type as I'm so old they wouldn't allow guys to take typing when I was in school.

>>> If I had the luxury of having a guaranteed group at all times I would probably be of the same mindset. I would still think the new zones suck though.

Think about all the games out there that have been around forever that are a lot less challenging than EQ - and they keep hanging in there.

>>> I agree. EQ is by far the best. That's why it pains me to see them do things I don't like :) It pains me to see all decisions driven by revenue considerations. The greatness is a holdover from the design of the original developers. They are getting farther and farther away from it.