please rank from best to worst.
1.Berserker
2.Rogue
3.Monk
4.Ranger
my rank: 1-2-3-4
what's yours ?
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Best melee DPS in game is .... ?Follow
Scholar
45 posts
Rogue. They hit smaller but faster. Anyone one miss is not a huge waste. A zerker misses with a 2hs its a big miss. But still very close for top two spots.
Monk
Ranger. I like when rangers shoot long range on super slowed mobs. Can get so many more hits before a rogue or zerker are engaged. But i guess thats not true melee.
Monk
Ranger. I like when rangers shoot long range on super slowed mobs. Can get so many more hits before a rogue or zerker are engaged. But i guess thats not true melee.
There are as many answers as situations and levels.
Edit: just realised you asked for MELEE DPS. In that case ignore rangers until at least lvl 65.
Edited, Dec 5th 2006 1:53pm by Whitman
Edit: just realised you asked for MELEE DPS. In that case ignore rangers until at least lvl 65.
Edited, Dec 5th 2006 1:53pm by Whitman
Melee DPS? Berserkers, all the way. Add in the number of critical hits they can get (I had three crits on one mob in Paludal the other day), and they're DPS machines.
All these execpt ranger does standard DPS unless in a raiding guild and has good gear.
A rogue with grouped gear BS for about 300 or so and hits for anywhere between 20 and 150
Beserker hits for around 200+ with grouped gear
Monk hits for around 250 with grouped gear
However a ranger can have grouped gear and still hit for 1k+ crits
A rogue with grouped gear BS for about 300 or so and hits for anywhere between 20 and 150
Beserker hits for around 200+ with grouped gear
Monk hits for around 250 with grouped gear
However a ranger can have grouped gear and still hit for 1k+ crits
I have a demi geared Berserker who has raided in several different guilds. I can tell you the answer is always the same. Whatever berserker or rogue is better geared in that particular guild will be top dps.
Usually the 2 classes have dps so close together that iof their is a noticeable gear differential the other simply cannot overcome it.
I did alot of parsing when both myself and a rogue friend both just got our 2.0's a while back. Although I usually did beat him the situation had ALOT more to do with it then any realdifference in dps.
Usually the 2 classes have dps so close together that iof their is a noticeable gear differential the other simply cannot overcome it.
I did alot of parsing when both myself and a rogue friend both just got our 2.0's a while back. Although I usually did beat him the situation had ALOT more to do with it then any realdifference in dps.
Pure Melee: Yeah that looks good.
Add hybrids and my SK in his mid 50's with very few AA's can hit in the mid two's decently....but those misses can be the difference between life and death.
Add hybrids and my SK in his mid 50's with very few AA's can hit in the mid two's decently....but those misses can be the difference between life and death.
Too many variables but in general given equal gear it's Rogue ove Berserker by a margin.
7 posts
Berzerker all the way. If you says rouges backstab, then dont forget the berzerkers can frenzy for xtra attacks and if it double hits on top of normal hits... Berzerker all the way
zerker/rogue really does mostly depend on which is better geared, even by a small margin.
this has absolutely 0 effect on dps.
Quote:
Rogue. They hit smaller but faster. Anyone one miss is not a huge waste. A zerker misses with a 2hs its a big miss. But still very close for top two spots.
this has absolutely 0 effect on dps.
Scholar
45 posts
yes it does. Damage per second. Say a rogue hits for 100 every sec. A Zerker hits for 200 every 2 seconds. in a 30 second span. Lets say average of 3 misses each.
Rogue hits for 100 every sec X 30 hits = 3000. Now less the three misses.
3000-300= 2700
Zerker hits for 200 every 2 secs x 15 hits = 3000. Now less the three misses.
3000-600= 2400.
Rogue does 2700 and Zerker does 2400 in the same 30 sec span.
I know the formula is much more complicated than that. Given AAs, attack, weapon delay etc. Heads up vs back stabbing. All sorts of other little things. its that reason i posted is why i like melee DPS better than spells. If every nuke landed yeah its different. But with resists and all. Better off little and quick.
Rogue hits for 100 every sec X 30 hits = 3000. Now less the three misses.
3000-300= 2700
Zerker hits for 200 every 2 secs x 15 hits = 3000. Now less the three misses.
3000-600= 2400.
Rogue does 2700 and Zerker does 2400 in the same 30 sec span.
I know the formula is much more complicated than that. Given AAs, attack, weapon delay etc. Heads up vs back stabbing. All sorts of other little things. its that reason i posted is why i like melee DPS better than spells. If every nuke landed yeah its different. But with resists and all. Better off little and quick.
Quote:
Say a rogue hits for 100 every sec. A Zerker hits for 200 every 2 seconds. in a 30 second span. Lets say average of 3 misses each.
reread this. you're missing something really obvious.
Toxetz wrote:
yes it does. Damage per second. Say a rogue hits for 100 every sec. A Zerker hits for 200 every 2 seconds. in a 30 second span. Lets say average of 3 misses each.
To make an accurate comparison you need to factor in misses as a total percentage of hits and not based on a time factor.
Hit faster = more misses, hit slower = fewer misses.
From what I've read if all else is equal (gear and weapons won't ever be equal with two different classes), zerker's will out damage. But hey they can't FD=)
....
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
elinda wrote:
Toxetz wrote:
yes it does. Damage per second. Say a rogue hits for 100 every sec. A Zerker hits for 200 every 2 seconds. in a 30 second span. Lets say average of 3 misses each.
To make an accurate comparison you need to factor in misses as a total percentage of hits and not based on a time factor.
Hit faster = more misses, hit slower = fewer misses.
From what I've read if all else is equal (gear and weapons won't ever be equal with two different classes), zerker's will out damage. But hey they can't FD=)
Rogues can't FD, only Monks, SKs, Necros and rangers can. But rangers leave out the feign part.
Just curious how much you think a berzerker (or any class) outdamages any of the the other 'equally-equipped' classes. 2%? 10%? more?
DOT wrote:
Just curious how much you think a berserker (or any class) out damages any of the other 'equally-equipped' classes. 2%? 10%? more?
The parse quotes I have seen at various boards, shows the 'zerker and rogue neck and neck, with the occasional 'zerker lead by a fraction of a percentage point at top end raid level. The rest seem to be 10% behind.
The reason this is such a hot topic is that to be top DPS rogues give up any reasonable ability to solo, off tank or snare a mob; while 'zerkers can off tank, solo and snare. Rogue's have their own unique abilities, but they are rarely useful, compared to the everyday needs of a group for someone who can snare and off tank an add and still put out same dps of a rogue, and the ability to solo while lfg. Seems like rogues get the shaft for this newest class. Rogues have asked the devs to fix this by giving rogues more DPS, and the devs have refused and stated they will give rogues more utility which rogues have responded is not really what they want. Rogues, as a whole, have so far resisted the call to nerf the DPS of 'zerkers as a solution, but that may come yet.
Edited, Dec 6th 2006 1:37pm by fhrugby
I would say being neck and neck in DPS is hardly grounds to grumble about another class. You can pro/con all day with rogue vs. zerker on lots of other issues but why is DPS the main bug-a-boo? I have played all those classes to 44 or higher (ranger 44, rogue 54, monk 64) except Berserker (only got a zerker to level 13) and I am impressed with the damage they all deal. I do not feel gimped playing one over another, I just change tactics.
If 2 classes are equal DPS wise why would you bother to play or group with a class that has nothing else going for it?
Rogue should be the best melee dps because they can't snare, offtank, kite and only get top end dps when they have the back of a mob. All these are available to the zerker in addition to having rogue dps from any angle.
DPS is the bugaboo because it's all the rogue does, they get invited to pu groups becuase of this.
Rogue should be the best melee dps because they can't snare, offtank, kite and only get top end dps when they have the back of a mob. All these are available to the zerker in addition to having rogue dps from any angle.
DPS is the bugaboo because it's all the rogue does, they get invited to pu groups becuase of this.
Other than for the purposes of forum debate, I really don't see the point of crying foul when two (or more) classes are compared for the purposes of determining top DPS. With the exception of possibly being the limiting factor for inclusion in a handful of top-end raiding guilds or as an ep33n issue, why does it matter? Especially since it's clear that the OP isn't quite to that point in his/her career yet...
I mean really, the majority of people reading this for the purposes of getting an answer will never even be considered for one of those guilds.
Edit: Also, Dot wins
Edited, Dec 11th 2006 6:23pm by Gladestrider
I mean really, the majority of people reading this for the purposes of getting an answer will never even be considered for one of those guilds.
Edit: Also, Dot wins
Edited, Dec 11th 2006 6:23pm by Gladestrider
Its really interesting how personal perspective and "folk lore" can become "accepted fact".
The fact is, that warriors are on the exact same damage table and as rogues.
As far as the combat engine is concerned a warrior will do the same damage per second as a rogue except for their respective disciplines. Parsing tells us that the Rogue backstab dsicipline produces more "extra" damage over time compared to the warrior's Fell Strike, Aggressive etc.
A Warrior equipped for melee dps and played properly should always rank in the top 3.
Monks will out DPS warriors a lot of the time, but its usually because of the better monk weapons, a warrior has to put in a lot more effort to get weapons equal or better than a monk. But then, so do rogues.
In all of the parsing I have seen Zerkers ranked no better than monks/warriors.
A Ranger is a hybrid, and doesn't compare with pure melee DPS.
But for the sake of the argument, with all personal damage shields and DoTs loaded, with Guardian/Feral and Auspice, plus cycling Ashes and Ice Chill nukes, our raid rangers can match the overall DPS of the rogues most of the time.
For the person who asked about the amount of difference.
In raid form our rogues, monks and rangers typically produce DPS in the 500 to 600 range.
The Knights are typically in the 300 to 400 range, that is in the order of a 20% difference. (Haven't checked a BL for a long time).
P.S. And yes, we all know that damage shields do nothing if you are standing behind the mob meleeing. Except for rangers who's attack buff includes a damage shield :)
Edited, Dec 12th 2006 2:03am by Iluien
The fact is, that warriors are on the exact same damage table and as rogues.
As far as the combat engine is concerned a warrior will do the same damage per second as a rogue except for their respective disciplines. Parsing tells us that the Rogue backstab dsicipline produces more "extra" damage over time compared to the warrior's Fell Strike, Aggressive etc.
A Warrior equipped for melee dps and played properly should always rank in the top 3.
Monks will out DPS warriors a lot of the time, but its usually because of the better monk weapons, a warrior has to put in a lot more effort to get weapons equal or better than a monk. But then, so do rogues.
In all of the parsing I have seen Zerkers ranked no better than monks/warriors.
A Ranger is a hybrid, and doesn't compare with pure melee DPS.
But for the sake of the argument, with all personal damage shields and DoTs loaded, with Guardian/Feral and Auspice, plus cycling Ashes and Ice Chill nukes, our raid rangers can match the overall DPS of the rogues most of the time.
For the person who asked about the amount of difference.
In raid form our rogues, monks and rangers typically produce DPS in the 500 to 600 range.
The Knights are typically in the 300 to 400 range, that is in the order of a 20% difference. (Haven't checked a BL for a long time).
P.S. And yes, we all know that damage shields do nothing if you are standing behind the mob meleeing. Except for rangers who's attack buff includes a damage shield :)
Edited, Dec 12th 2006 2:03am by Iluien
7 posts
I have seen a parse comparison from highend guild where zerker does out dps rogue on some occasions but was very close in each example I'll try and find that site and link it . Also what noone mentioned was the fact that zerkers for the most part have higher dmg weapons with large dmg bonus because of 2handers and frenzy ability while still on same table as warriors,same crit ability plus higher damage weapon = higher crits for more dps.I've never seen a warrior capable of the dps that zerkers are and I've grouped with both.I would compare warriors dps closer to a bards than any other class . Warriors dont even come close to Monks in dps and i would be surprised if they are on the same table.
Scholar
30 posts
I'm in a high end guild and I parse every boss fight.
If a high end zerker wants to blow his discs, no other class can match him for dps/damage done. Since those discs have a long recharge though, he's back to 'normal' dps for a while.
Since I started announcing parse results in guild chat, I've noticed zerkers and rogues trying to make sure they get into groups with bards and shammys to enhance their damage output.
Knights can climb to near the top of the list against undead mobs.
If a high end zerker wants to blow his discs, no other class can match him for dps/damage done. Since those discs have a long recharge though, he's back to 'normal' dps for a while.
Since I started announcing parse results in guild chat, I've noticed zerkers and rogues trying to make sure they get into groups with bards and shammys to enhance their damage output.
Knights can climb to near the top of the list against undead mobs.
Scholar
24 posts
Again its all situational combat.
Rogues have backstab which is their class high damage ability.
Monks have Clawstriker's flurry/dragon fang/leopard fang.
Zerkers just use 2 handers that do massive dmg but also are prone to hitting slower.
Rangers have a nice balance of dps via the weapons they can use.
Now this isn't a ranking in order but rather a showing of no matter how hard you try to say which has the most dps, they all can out dps each other given certain circumstances.
I've seen rogues backstab for low end as well as high end.
I've seen monks pull out 12k crits as well as hits for 100 dmg with clawstrikers.
I've seen zerkers decimate on dps then slowly fall behind rangers in dps output.
I've seen rangers be the lowest dps around as well as the highest.
Its true its mainly about gear an aa's but there's so many new varibles since the "damage tables" have come out without a revamp its impossible to say which is best.
In the end it comes down to who can take the best hits of the four with as much dps as your putting out.
Edited, Dec 12th 2006 12:43pm by delissandra
Rogues have backstab which is their class high damage ability.
Monks have Clawstriker's flurry/dragon fang/leopard fang.
Zerkers just use 2 handers that do massive dmg but also are prone to hitting slower.
Rangers have a nice balance of dps via the weapons they can use.
Now this isn't a ranking in order but rather a showing of no matter how hard you try to say which has the most dps, they all can out dps each other given certain circumstances.
I've seen rogues backstab for low end as well as high end.
I've seen monks pull out 12k crits as well as hits for 100 dmg with clawstrikers.
I've seen zerkers decimate on dps then slowly fall behind rangers in dps output.
I've seen rangers be the lowest dps around as well as the highest.
Its true its mainly about gear an aa's but there's so many new varibles since the "damage tables" have come out without a revamp its impossible to say which is best.
In the end it comes down to who can take the best hits of the four with as much dps as your putting out.
Edited, Dec 12th 2006 12:43pm by delissandra
Slight nitpick to above is Berserkers do get a special attack: Frenzy
Also, Rogues prefer NOT to get hit
...Monks either *cough* FD *cough* but Rangers, well everyone likes to pound on those...
Also, Rogues prefer NOT to get hit
...Monks either *cough* FD *cough* but Rangers, well everyone likes to pound on those...lanvardar wrote:
I have seen a parse comparison from highend guild where zerker does out dps rogue on some occasions but was very close in each example I'll try and find that site and link it . Also what noone mentioned was the fact that zerkers for the most part have higher dmg weapons with large dmg bonus because of 2handers and frenzy ability while still on same table as warriors,same crit ability plus higher damage weapon = higher crits for more dps.I've never seen a warrior capable of the dps that zerkers are and I've grouped with both.I would compare warriors dps closer to a bards than any other class . Warriors dont even come close to Monks in dps and i would be surprised if they are on the same table.
Check the archives at the Station and you will find a full discussion by one of the devs telling how the revised damage tables and combat engine has worked since Luclin.
P.S. You must group with some amazingly powerful bards.
Quote:
In all of the parsing I have seen Zerkers ranked no better than monks/warriors.
this just means your zerkers suck.
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