I know everyone has seen and read AND posted in alot of these threads. Going over them I think the #1 combo suggested is Shaman/SK.
Why exactly? I do want to two box soon, and shaman is my favorite class in this game. so I have been hearing alot about SK duos. Take note this is on the progression server and niether char will be raid geared probably, at least not high end.
So, more on to what I want to know. Looking over the ShadowKnight spells, They don't seem very impressive or like they offer alot to the duo.
-Green con pets, minor DoT. Pet pulling has been nerfed (fixed?) I hear?
-Low damage DoTs, with a small mana pool they don't seem worth it.
-Lifetaps, Huge mana cost for a minor amount of Hp restored, granted they do damage as well. seeing the healing power of paladin spells for the mana cost does not make this look so good.
-Fiegn death, I play a necromancer now so I know the power of this, great ability.
-Hate buffs, lifetap/mana tap procs, direct hate spells and snare look pretty good.
So why Shadowknights over others? would seem they don't heal themselves nearly as well as paladins, paladins also mitigate alot of damage through stuns right? They don't naturaly take the hits or have as high Hp as a war, They are on par with pally dps against living, bit higher if they go all out nukes/dots I suppose.
I like tanks, I love shaman. I'm not putting ShadowKnight down in anyway. I don't know much about that class and I just can't see where the greatness everyone speaks of comes from. So i'm asking those out there who are experienced with it if they can offer some insight on the ShadowKnight class.
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The reason why SK is such a good fit for shamans in a 2 boxing capacity is that sks have snare.
Why would warrior be better than sk with a shaman? Well better tanking ability. But with slow this is somewhat reduntant.
Why would a paladin be better? Heals and rezzes. Well the shaman can take care of the heals.
Mobs that run can be a MAJOR pain to fight, and in many zones the running away feature of the mobs makes the zone basically unplayable for a group of 2. Snare is not just a little important... it is VERY important.
For a 2 boxing situation most of the issues that people argue about as to warrior vs pally vs sk as main tank just do not apply. Snare >> all other class distinctions between warrior/pally/sk as a 2 boxing partner for a shammy.
Why would warrior be better than sk with a shaman? Well better tanking ability. But with slow this is somewhat reduntant.
Why would a paladin be better? Heals and rezzes. Well the shaman can take care of the heals.
Mobs that run can be a MAJOR pain to fight, and in many zones the running away feature of the mobs makes the zone basically unplayable for a group of 2. Snare is not just a little important... it is VERY important.
For a 2 boxing situation most of the issues that people argue about as to warrior vs pally vs sk as main tank just do not apply. Snare >> all other class distinctions between warrior/pally/sk as a 2 boxing partner for a shammy.
Snare, that is the only thing that makes this Duo so powerful? Root, ensnare, snare procing weapons/ shaman necklace. stuns to stop movement. There are many ways to stop an enemy from running away. I understand that is a powerful ability the SK brings to the group. but is that realy all?
Try to single pull a mob with a pally post lvl 65 or so where they become completely uncapable of paci'ing mobs. Also sk's get AE agro which from talking to my pally buddy apparently they do not. For your duo I would honestly pick pally for rezzes because even though pally rezzes suck they are better than begging for a clerics IMO. I 3 box SK, druid, cleric, while wife brings in her beast and ranger. In my group a pally has no place as SK can pull multiples, keep agro over them and let the druid and ranger AE everything to death. On that note, I'm going to check if pallys get an AE stun maybe. But yes, stun does prevent some damage. SKs get a lot of fun tricks, almost all of their spells are aimed at doing damage or debuffing a mob whereas pally's are more defensive, stun to get agro and take less damage. High end SKs get innate lifetap procs through AAs, plus spell lifetap procs. Innate one crit nukes for over 1k with a crit heal giving you over a 2k heal for 0 mana. I really enjoy playing mine, but you'd be better with a less damaging tank with rezzes.
Trying to root mobs as they run away while 2 boxing from my experience is not effective in keeping mobs from running away. One mob that gets away and you can get a nice train (chooo chooo!).
I believe if you have a troll shaman then you can get the shammy snare necklace, and you can also try making alchemy made snare potions that you throw (I never could get them to work properly). I have never had a snare proccing weapon so obviously I can say nothing as to their effectiveness. However snare comes naturally with the sk package and is a very nice ability to have.
The other nice ability that sks have is feign death. A bad pull = sk fd and shammy gate. Plus fd pulling can be used to pull singles.
Why is shammy/sk a powerful combo? Well I was kinda leaving out the stuff that is the strength of their respective classes - shammy buffed sks make good tanks and when fighting mobs that do not require too much healing then the shammy can switch over to dps mode fairly easily. Plus haste makes a nice dps boost even when the shammy is in heal only mode.
Shamans are good at defense (slow + cripple each mob plus the buffs on the tank add defense to the tank) and are also good at dps when such defense is not needed (panther for added tank dps plus either dots or nukes depending on how fast mobs are dropping). Plus when bad things happen fd for the sk and gate for the shammy could save the need for too many rezzes.
I believe if you have a troll shaman then you can get the shammy snare necklace, and you can also try making alchemy made snare potions that you throw (I never could get them to work properly). I have never had a snare proccing weapon so obviously I can say nothing as to their effectiveness. However snare comes naturally with the sk package and is a very nice ability to have.
The other nice ability that sks have is feign death. A bad pull = sk fd and shammy gate. Plus fd pulling can be used to pull singles.
Why is shammy/sk a powerful combo? Well I was kinda leaving out the stuff that is the strength of their respective classes - shammy buffed sks make good tanks and when fighting mobs that do not require too much healing then the shammy can switch over to dps mode fairly easily. Plus haste makes a nice dps boost even when the shammy is in heal only mode.
Shamans are good at defense (slow + cripple each mob plus the buffs on the tank add defense to the tank) and are also good at dps when such defense is not needed (panther for added tank dps plus either dots or nukes depending on how fast mobs are dropping). Plus when bad things happen fd for the sk and gate for the shammy could save the need for too many rezzes.
Having said all that... I think a pally/shammy combo would also rock :) Shammies are SO versatile! I would choose the sk myself, but I would chalk a lot of this up to personal preference as much as anything.
First, if I ever came across as challenging any of your points i'm sorry, was just trying to understand.
Second, thank you both for the information. From what I have seen it is just as you say Drakkin, "Personal Preferance". I know how versatile shamans are and how well they complement nearly every class in one way or another.
All of the information I have read on two boxing with a shaman, The ShadowKnight partner seems to always be the "One and only". people talked and suggested it as if it was this Ultimate duo partner. But from what I can see it is not. It gains no Huge all mighty advantage over other duo classes. it has some nice tools others don't, but lacks some tools others have. Personal preferance as you say.
Thanks again for the information. Still undecided. The greenmist quest looks like alot of fun, still not sure hehe.
Second, thank you both for the information. From what I have seen it is just as you say Drakkin, "Personal Preferance". I know how versatile shamans are and how well they complement nearly every class in one way or another.
All of the information I have read on two boxing with a shaman, The ShadowKnight partner seems to always be the "One and only". people talked and suggested it as if it was this Ultimate duo partner. But from what I can see it is not. It gains no Huge all mighty advantage over other duo classes. it has some nice tools others don't, but lacks some tools others have. Personal preferance as you say.
Thanks again for the information. Still undecided. The greenmist quest looks like alot of fun, still not sure hehe.
Quote:
The reason why SK is such a good fit for shamans in a 2 boxing capacity is that sks have snare.
Why would warrior be better than sk with a shaman? Well better tanking ability. But with slow this is somewhat reduntant.
Why would a paladin be better? Heals and rezzes. Well the shaman can take care of the heals.
Mobs that run can be a MAJOR pain to fight, and in many zones the running away feature of the mobs makes the zone basically unplayable for a group of 2. Snare is not just a little important... it is VERY important.
For a 2 boxing situation most of the issues that people argue about as to warrior vs pally vs sk as main tank just do not apply. Snare >> all other class distinctions between warrior/pally/sk as a 2 boxing partner for a shammy.
Why would warrior be better than sk with a shaman? Well better tanking ability. But with slow this is somewhat reduntant.
Why would a paladin be better? Heals and rezzes. Well the shaman can take care of the heals.
Mobs that run can be a MAJOR pain to fight, and in many zones the running away feature of the mobs makes the zone basically unplayable for a group of 2. Snare is not just a little important... it is VERY important.
For a 2 boxing situation most of the issues that people argue about as to warrior vs pally vs sk as main tank just do not apply. Snare >> all other class distinctions between warrior/pally/sk as a 2 boxing partner for a shammy.
I'd also point out the advantage the paly has in that paladins have cleric buffs that stack very well with shaman buff. A shaman/pally team can puff each other almost to raid buff levels.
As far as snare, while pallies dont have it, they do have root (and one of the best roots in the game). Yeah, snare is better, for root can do the job well.
Basically, with a Pally/SK combo, you can take more hits and have better heal ability, plus vs undead, the pally/shaman combo cant be beat.
The SK/shaman combo has the advantage of easier pulling, AE aggro to keep the shaman from getting killed, and higher DPS on non udead mobs.
You can always go Ranger/Shaman or Berserker/Shaman. You sacrifice tanking ability for dps.
I have both a shammy and an SK... the duo is great for many reasons..
1. the SK can single pull...
2. the SK has the best agro holding hate spells.. so the shammy can really lay on some dots
3. snare dots ( sk ) no need to go on
the team would rock the SK can hold the mobs attention while the shammy could heal and add dsp...
there are many many good duos. not just 1 works..
I also run a sk / chanter duo and do just fine.. I pull with the chanter and run to the sk and then let the sk hit the mob with snare or any # of hate spells... the chanter slows, dots and sit back and let the sk do his dealio
1. the SK can single pull...
2. the SK has the best agro holding hate spells.. so the shammy can really lay on some dots
3. snare dots ( sk ) no need to go on
the team would rock the SK can hold the mobs attention while the shammy could heal and add dsp...
there are many many good duos. not just 1 works..
I also run a sk / chanter duo and do just fine.. I pull with the chanter and run to the sk and then let the sk hit the mob with snare or any # of hate spells... the chanter slows, dots and sit back and let the sk do his dealio
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