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Poll: Underrated in GroupsFollow

#52 Nov 05 2006 at 11:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I chose Warrior simply because, unless the special tanking abilities of a War are needed, most folks consider the Pally or SK as superior because of their utility.

The question was what class was underrated in exp groups. If you were one tank short and heading for content that any of the tanks could handle, and a Pally, SK and Warrior were LFG you’d go for one of the hybrids. Even though, truth be told, you’d likely be better off with the Warrior.
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Flyhalfer Wingfoot
Melee Druid of Karana
#53 Nov 06 2006 at 5:32 AM Rating: Decent
What! I rarely post on any here but this really throws me for a loop. I would pick a Paladin with great AC over a Warrior to tank any day of the week.I play a Necro and even with my best DoTs going rare is the day that i pull agro from the mob of a good Paladin. For ranged agro they really cant be beat especially for mobs like Lirah the Bridgekeeper. If any class is overpowered on EQ (wich there isnt they are all pretty well suited and balanced) it would be Paladin. I know everyone asks for improvements for their respective class but you sure are asking alot why dont you ask for Paladin ports while your at it?
#54 Nov 06 2006 at 6:01 AM Rating: Decent
Paladins get Ward of Tunare. Makes them pretty sweet in my opinion. I don't think pallies can complain a whole lot after getting that bone.
#55 Nov 06 2006 at 6:43 AM Rating: Default
I voted no opinion in that, none of the class's are under rated in groups that I am in.

What I find annoying in groups is people who do not play their class.

Healers who do not save mana to heal, or are not paying attention to tank/groups health.

Hybrids running off and off tanking adds, instead of letting, chanter/bard, or other crowd control person do their jobs. (Yes, its still true, tanking a mob just because you can does not make you uber) Assisting mob that MA is fighting and letting rest of group do their job FTW is the way to go. If all concentrate on one mob at a time, DPS becomes incredible, mana does not tend to become an issue, and xp flows faster.

Pet class's seem to get a really bad rap, and that is most likely because one or two of the quoted "vocal minority" have given it to them. Pet push kills, if its the tanks responsibility to adjust for mob placement, its the pet class's as well. Pet class's chose to raise and level fluffy, if they cannot control the pet, reroll the toon.

Chanter's who run out and tank, because peridots stack to 100 now. Bah, you give the class a bad name.

Casting class's that think they can chain drop high damage nukes/dots and or snares on mobs early in battle.

Anyone can get agro, but do you really want it when you get it? If the answer is yes, then go solo.

Just my 2cp.
#56 Nov 06 2006 at 7:03 AM Rating: Decent
hands down Necros..

I have the following toons

74 cleric
58 shammy
67 SK
24 warrior
63 necro
16 ranger

necros add alot to groups but most people dont understand what they are... they can do almost anything.. from off tank multi adds.. my lvl 61 and 63 necro pets are real bad ***.. and buffed.. can tank alot of group lvl mobs for a few minutes... and if they are getting beat down.. heck over dot and let the mob chase me while the pet beats his tail...necros have a few good group / raid buffs.. from STR buffs to short term mind buffs.

necros are always the last to get groups
#57 Nov 06 2006 at 7:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Chanter's who run out and tank, because peridots stack to 100 now. Bah, you give the class a bad name.
You serious? I must be a poor chanter saving my dots...Smiley: cool

I agree most secondary tanks need to be reminded (that there is a chanter) if you have different CC than the Paludal offtank frenzy. I always give the nickle lecture about not dotting adds (that means you: necro, druid) and if someone repeatedly ignores me I let them deal with the adds they wake up. Harsh lesson especially if they die but why deny someone the education Smiley: wink.

In response to Jiggy, fyi chanters do get mind wipe to 'lose' aggro. Not as 100% effective as fade but if I have time to cast one or two on a mezzed mob before the tank wakes it up, I am usually safe. Root is your temporary friend.
#58 Nov 06 2006 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
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2,198 posts
Dot wrote:
In response to Jiggy, fyi chanters do get mind wipe to 'lose' aggro. Not as 100% effective as fade but if I have time to cast one or two on a mezzed mob before the tank wakes it up, I am usually safe. Root is your temporary friend.


Oh, I know about mindwipe. When I said chanters don't have a reliable way of quickly losing aggro, I was talking about for pulling if said pull goes bad. You COULD do an AE mez and try to lock all the mobs down, then mind wipe them one at a time until aggro is gone and you can get a single, but it's not exactly "efficient". Mindwipe is great for in camp CC though and little tricks like that is why I actually like having a chanter for in camp CC when I'm pulling.

Reading some of these posts has actually brought something to my attention though. Like some others have said, it is very much based on perception, and that perception is usually based on the main toon you play. For instance, I chose Enchanters because I rarely see a group looking for a chanter specifically. BUT, my main is a bard, and that's probably why. If my main were a cleric or tank, I'd probably be looking for a chanter much more often (they would be my first choice for hastes and second for slows, probably). As a bard, I consider them a "nice to have" and a lot of groups feel the same way when they have a bard, but when they don't, the need for a slower/haster/CC > any bad perceptions of the classes survivability.

I imagine if you play a cleric as your main, you rarely look for a druid to join your group (unless you're looking for a replacement). If you play a warrior, you rarely look for a pally. If you play a monk you probably hate the thought of someone looking for a bard to join your group (hehe). It's all very much perception based.

As a general lumping of categories though (as primary roles, a la puller, healer, DPS, slower, etc), I guess the DPS "group" kinda gets the shaft just because there are so many choices. Rogue, ranger, monk, necro, mage, wizard... the only thing that seperates them is a certain degree of utility, some greater then others. But unless you're looking for that particular kind of utility, you'll likely take any of them for the same spot. A rogue might be the best melee DPS in game (from behind of course), but when you're looking for a DPS class and you already have a snarer and puller, you'll take ANY of them, which is good if they're the only one LFG, but that's NEVER the case.

Bah, anyway, I'm getting way too much into the psyche of EQ players...
#59 Nov 06 2006 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
The most underrated class in EQ is by far the wizard. They bring much more destruction to the table than ANY other class. For somereason, the mage with CoH, Mod Rods, and DS, you know, some useful utility spells (Like a wizard ever is asked to spell shield?) we might get groups.

SoE, you want PvP problems? Look to the wizard, why we ALWAYS getting resisted? Why we ALWAYS get beat? Even by druids now.... and they are jack of all trade master of none. They even have TL's now, which they were NEVER supposed to get anyways.

Oh but thats right, according to Absor, Manaburn is working as intended! Then why is there still a timer on impact? That was never intended, and why hasn't Lifeburn been nerfed? BS... you want the most broken, underrated class in EQ, look at the wizard. And I play a cleric.
#60 Nov 06 2006 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
I picked mage. I have played all the classes at some point, but the mage is my favorite class. Of all the classes though it is the one that I just can't seem to find a group with. Fortuenately my wife took up playing and has a high level chanter now. We can duo a lot of the zones out there if we can't find a group, or people wanting to join us.
#61 Nov 06 2006 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
Just to correct some disinformation:

The best healer in any situation is the cleric. Bar none.
Skin of the reptile is a nice toy, but over the course of a fight, it's rare to see it heal as much as one CH would. At best it gives a druid some breathing room while he gets his 5k heal off.
15k tanks of any class are common these days, so cleric CH is still the best heal.

AC is not just for SKs, nor do SKs look for AC more than other tanks. ANY tank class that doesn't favor AC over hps should hang up his sword and roll a caster.

SKs are not built to take the lowest damage through mitigation; warriors are.

A ranger spamming nukes with mana flare will NOT, I repeat, NOT outdps a rogue. Or a zerker. Or a wizard.

Clerics are not the first choice because of their rez (although that is important). They are the first choice because they are the best healers. They can save the group's bacon every 4 minutes with divine arbitration. They can stay alive using DA or sanctuary. They have group heals for when adds get out of hand. And if their death pact AA goes off, they have almost a minute of DA which they can use to camp.

You are correct that necro dps sucks in a group setting nowadays. By the time
he's stacked 3 dots the mob is already dead. Necros are defined by 4 things: Soloing, raid dps, necro rez, and sacrifice.

Oh, and I don't ever think about getting a mage for pet dps. A 150 hitting pet just doesn't do it for me. Granted, mages can do similar dps to a wizard provided they can keep their pet under control, but a wizard is a lot lower maintenance (provided they don't pull aggro), which means you're more likely to get good dps from the LFG pool.
#62 Nov 06 2006 at 1:58 PM Rating: Excellent
I voted Beserker also. First off, I am considering single group encounters for this question, and am using underrated the same as underused. I have never ever been in or started any group where we were hoping to see a berserker log on so we could get started. It is always a slower/healer/tank. To date I honestly have never seen any decent played berserkers. The skilled players must all belong to other guilds and only group with them I guess.

I started my Bard in Dec 99 and yes have seen many other lazy or overly cautious bards that are so-so with groups, and likewise sit LFG for a while. I probably set LFG for 10 mins on average before finding something to do. Often its much quicker than that and occasionally I am coming up with a plan on how to do my current mission and port to somewhere so I can get to the different grp waiting for me there. I have been in many many groups where if an 'average' monk was pulling then the grp wouldnt survive long. I mean no mez's, no pre-slows, no mana/HP regen to speak of, and their spotty pulling that keeps the grp waiting. I can count great pulling monks that I have seen in seven years on one hand. Additionally, there are specialty pulls that I am not great at where a monk is much better. Several raid pull situations come to mind.

So I agree that it depends on your exp with diff classes on what is underrated/underused. Every class has a 'hook' or class defining skill that players should become expert at. Its just that with Berserkers, I have not yet seen it. Ppl say they do great DPS, but how is DPS a class defining trait when all the classes except cleric put out dps. There has to be something more to the beserker that I just dont know about. I cant think of any reason someone would play one unless there is something unique.

A lot of my friends started a berserker when the class was released but EVERYONE just scrapped them or use them only for necro rez stones now. I attribute that to plain old frustration or boredom or something along those lines. Otherwise, the beserker would be their new main and would still be seeing play time. People play EQ for fun and if something is no fun then it gets sacked down for necro rez stones.

Edited, Nov 6th 2006 at 2:06pm PST by kirbyramz
#63 Nov 06 2006 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
Oh, and I don't ever think about getting a mage for pet dps. A 150 hitting pet just doesn't do it for me. Granted, mages can do similar dps to a wizard provided they can keep their pet under control, but a wizard is a lot lower maintenance (provided they don't pull aggro), which means you're more likely to get good dps from the LFG pool.



i would like to point out at level 70 my pet was hitting in 150 200 range and pet control isnt an issuse when you spend the aa's on pet dispaline aa's
at 75 with a 30% focus on pet ive seen pet crits up to 290 so far, nuking wise yes a wizzy can out nuke me but when i get crits for 10k to 15k thats nothing to sneeze at either
just my 2 cs worth as a 75 mage
#64 Nov 06 2006 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
The numbers in this poll just astound me...

I realize that this is a representation of all levels and thus may be a bit skewed, but there are some pretty high numbers for classes that i just dont understand. Necros, I can understand as unappreciated (but very valuable), but Enchanters and Rangers in the top 4?? Maybe it's because I've played so many diffeerent classes, but those two are definately not classes that I have ever been wary about when grouping. Some of the best groups I've ever been in have contained one or both.

If I had to name the top three (in my experience), I'd pick Magician, Necromancer, and Berserker, not neccesarily in that order.

*shrug* I guess it just goes to show how different our collective in-game experiences can be :)
#65 Nov 06 2006 at 5:30 PM Rating: Decent
To isabeelMT's post of her ideal group makeup.

I noticed that magicians didn't even make your list in the DPS area.....I rest my case that the magicians are the most under estimated. I will bet you anything I can out DPS any of your friends, and in most cases any two of them.

Edited, Nov 6th 2006 at 5:48pm PST by sumlaan
#66 Nov 06 2006 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
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317 posts
Quote:

people said something...


Sorry, I'm still staring at Odzmye the Venerable's Avatar....


Oh, vote, ya I think I voted...
Voted for Rangers. May be a bit biased. I like to pretend I add more than just dps to a group... :P
#67 Nov 06 2006 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
In reply to IsabeelMT....

um...buddy, look into mage pets again, i regularly parse as the second highest DPS on my guild's raids, as a 72 mage, whom also happens to be the primary debuffer for the raid, the mod rod factory, and the pet toy factory. On top of this, how many classes can spot tank when your MT dies?? My pet has tanked the Seeker (back when i was lvl 70 btw, 66 air pet), he's tanked mobs in Icefall Glaicer, I pet tank solo in MPG....you really need to understand what mage pets bring to the table. As far as our DPS not being as good as a wizzies....um....wrong. My pet quads for 154, flurries about every other hit, for another 2 hits of 154, crits up to 290 very frequently, procs my 225 pet weapon proc about every 4 round or so, procs iceflame guard (150 pt dd, and prism skin for next hit, look it up) every 5th or 6th round, stuns for 3 seconds every 12 seconds, and makes sure that all other pets, even the gimpy pet classes pets, do an extra 10% damage with my aura.tell me that you wouldn't like that person in your group if it were a PC....just because his name is Jobober, don't hate him, he probably tanks better than you, and out dps'es you.....then I start casting my nukes, hitting for 4k normally, and 8k crits every 3rd or 4th cast, and I can cast that nuke 16 times on a full mana bar... And yes, I've fought every class in the arena, my pet vs. them, and only the classes that can snare and kite him can win.....so you figure it out.

Edited, Nov 6th 2006 at 5:44pm PST by sumlaan

Edited, Nov 6th 2006 at 5:50pm PST by sumlaan
#68 Nov 06 2006 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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820 posts
As far as all that was just added about mages, I can think of one more very nice perk of having them in group...


...I cannot measure the value I place on having a mage in group when you are buried deep inside a zone during an xp-gringing marathon and you have new group members who are oh-so-easily CotHed to the group instead of having to grind your way out to the less resourceful people and then back again.
#69 Nov 07 2006 at 4:34 AM Rating: Decent
Honestly, from my point of view, I've been playing since 2000 and I've yet to see anyone searching for a wizard. I mean i guess its not always necessary since i play a Mage for a main, but i have a high level Monk, Druid, and Bard. Wizzy's always seem to get the short end of the stick, if you will. They have amazing DD spells and If you can get more than one in a group, go for it. the other day I was in KC with my druid. the group consisted of a Warrior, Druid, Shaman, Wizzy, Wizzy, Enchanter. I can honestly say we were pulling at least 6-7 mobs at once. even if we had 1 wizzy, the damage they produce alone would have been enough to get us some decent xp, without having to train out of the zone. So, my vote: [b][/b]Wizzy
#70 Nov 07 2006 at 4:46 AM Rating: Decent
IMHO i would say the shaman i know playing one that people have been astounded when i can both do the clerics role as well as the standard shaman and on occasions with squishy cloth wearers been known to tank alongside my faithful pet.

Then after all this had people say WOW shamans can do all that... so yeah i would say shamans get underrated at times sadly!
#71 Nov 07 2006 at 8:42 AM Rating: Decent
I had to go with Necromancer since that is my main toon . Im a well equiped high end raid necro with great focus effects and can do some pretty nice dps in group situations , can kite adds , mindflay to help other casters mana pools ,twitch healers (shudder), have a pet dps , can pull , can FD and rez group when things go sour , and yet used to have a hard time lfg if no guildies had a spot . Thanks to Nest I could still kite 7-8 aa an hour but it gets old fast .And my alts are 70 ranja , 70 bard , 65 chanter and 65 pally so I have had pretty good experience and unbiased opinion at any one class . If the question had been who was the harder class to find a group with I would have to say the ranja btw.

Edited, Nov 7th 2006 at 8:49am PST by Moodelf

75 necro on Emarr

Edited, Nov 7th 2006 at 8:50am PST by Moodelf
#72 Nov 07 2006 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
I voted pally, but could have easily gone with druid or chanter. Like many others who responded, that's based on personal experience/preference. I play a shaman, and have a core that I regularly group with: warrior, bard, sk and cleric. All are mid-high 60s right now. The five of us will mix and match, depending on whose on, but when all five are together, we do have most everything covered, heals, buffs, mez, rez, slow, with the warrior absorbing most of the damage. When we've had the 6th spot filled, it's basically been dps, of which my personal favorite was the wizard (in 60+ levels, have never teamed with a mage or berzerker, so I can't comment on them either way). With our make-up, the need for a pally (or druid and chanter) just isn't that great. They just don't bring anything to the table that we really need.
#73 Nov 07 2006 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Too simple: Rangers.

They have been maligned forever! Who else holds aggro better?! They manage to infuriate everything that crosses their path with their feeble attempts at DPS, embarrassing buffs, and general annoying nature. After a few minutes of grouping with your average Ranger, the whole damn group wants to kill them!

Oh wait, when it's presented that way, maybe they're not actually underrated, but accurately rated...


But you forget that when ranjas r geared good they have insane dps. I know a ranja that hits for over 1k a whack and he hits pretty damn fast. Ranjas r uber dps unless theyre gimp. But never have 1 tank lol.

I have no opinion on least faveorite but i had a 70 SK when i stopped playing a month ago and u cannot find a better tank. If cleric is oom the SK can leachcurse, lifetap like mad, HT to finish it off etc... While warriors will just die. ALhough paladins can heal themselves..... uhm.... well Sks r better so HAH! Pallys cant damage enemy while healin themselves! but i think best tanks r pally and SK if ure cleric is short on mana. of course if uve got like 3 healers then Warrior all the way.

Im playin WoW now btw... and i dunno im not sure which 1 i like better. Dont rant at my post please. WoW has its ups and downs as does EQ.
#74 Nov 07 2006 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
agree 100% saeel, but alas, I sit for hours waiting for a group, all the time, so magicians i would say are seriously underated.
#75 Nov 07 2006 at 5:36 PM Rating: Default

I find it somewhat amusing that the 2 best soloing classes since the start of EQ (Nec/Dru) find it hardest to get groups. I think its more a case of said players having solo'ed so much lost a little on the EQ etiquette side and dont know how to find groups, now that tasks and instances are so prevalent.

Tal,
#76 Nov 07 2006 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
I definally believe Necro/Druids have the hardest time finding PUGs. I'm a druid and i usually log on my server and look for a group for acouple hours and either go TS or Log off in annoyment. I'd solo but im so sick and tired of soloing, i'd rather drill out my coronas then solo. I started playing back in '00 which i call the dark times of the druid class when it comes to getting a group. One time in Sebilis i had a necro out heal me because i still had Superior Healing and was struggling.

I find at least on my server. Most groups will look forever for a cleric and will only as a last resort take a druid unless its a guild group or a member of the group is a friend or guildmate pullin for ya.
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