Rashere's latest post, green pet pulling fixed next update :: Free Realms

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#1 Sep 12 2006 at 11:10 AM Rating: Excellent

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FROM EQLIVE

rashere wrote:

Over the course of beta, we've identified and corrected a number of issues that have been around for a while but were being exacerbated by the downtime changes we are making. There are two particular changes with the "call for help" routine that I want to draw attention to since they close loopholes that allow some questionable tactics that some of you may be using currently. I want you to be aware that they will no longer work after our next patch to save you the potential deaths from attempting them. These will also be in the patch notes.

When most NPCs call for help, they will only call for a small, set number of NPCs to respond to keep from swarming people with dozens of NPCs at once. There was a problem in the call for help routine that caused an NPC to not call for help again for a few seconds if it had already called for help and enough NPCs responded that they had met that maximum number the first time. This is what was enabling the so called "tick pulling" phenomenon whereby you could aggro an entire room, drop aggro, then immediate re-aggro a single NPC and it would come alone. This is now fixed and NPCs will now properly call for help

every time they are aggro'd from a non-aggro state.

With the above problem fixed, we also had to address another bug in the same area to prevent just shifting the loophole form one tactic to another. This one had a similar effect, although for an entirely different reason. When a player sends a pet in to attack an NPC, the NPC uses the pet's leader to determine how the NPC reacts. In one part of the "call for help" routine, this check was missed and it was causing an NPC to not call for help if it was attacked by a green con pet of a PC. This particular bit of code is there for NPC vs NPC combat to keep NPCs from ganging up on each other, but the missing check for a PC leader caused it to not call for help if a PC sent a green con pet to aggro it. This is now fixed and the NPC is properly using the pet's leader for this check as well.

Again, both of these fixes will go out with our patch next week.

Rashere

So add this to new AA exp, out of combat fast regen, hover over death, new spell resist calcualtions, change in con colors and new character creation system, all coming out next week. There are probably a couple others hardy changes not mentioned, caps off to Rashere and company, post your koodoos here stat.

Edited, Sep 12th 2006 at 12:18pm EDT by fhrugby

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#2 Sep 12 2006 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent

fronglo

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Why would I be thanking them for nerfing (ok fixing) pet pulling? There is quite a few things I could have not pulled off without it. And I have a feeling AA exp will be slower with the changes to how AA's are gained. They keep saying it will be for lower level toons, but how many lower lvl toons grind aa's?? I just wonder what kind of AA gain we will get from MM's after this change?

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#3 Sep 12 2006 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent

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If pet pulling is a "bug" then why is there a whole line of pet runes that are exclusively used for pet pulling? I say this is total crap personally. If it was a bug then why did they keep it in the game for ... well since I started playing? What's next, making it towhere mobs can CoTH the zone on you instead of gating back to spawn? If they want to play that then they need to make it to where a mob can only cast 8-9 spells, what they have "memmed" and gate needs to take the normal cast time. I like the less down time I guess, won't alter the way I play entirely too much, but the new agro crap they are coming out with sounds like it's going to alter the game massively. Thanks for the post fhrugby..

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#4 Sep 12 2006 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent

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If pet pulling is a "bug" then why is there a whole line of pet runes that are exclusively used for pet pulling?

Which spells are the "exclusive pet pulling" spells?

I see spells that block spells and melee that are used on the pets, but they are not "exclusive" to pet pulling. It just happens that pet pulling it the only time anyone decides to use them.

Using a pet that you got 20 levels ago trivialized a lot of content. Anything that trivialized content in such a manner should be corrected when it is determined what the cause of it is.

If you don't think it trivialized content, ask the enchanters that aren't needed to crowd control. Or ask the off tanks on raids, since all the mobs can be singled instead of multiple. It has made the game too easy in many instances.

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#5 Sep 12 2006 at 6:25 PM Rating: Decent

Felicite

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Well.

The Big Kids are saying (correctly) that they dont use pet pulling anyway. Don't need it. Just a distraction.

The middle kids are saying (correctly) that while they don't need it.. this change will lengthen many raid encounters. I suppose you will say (correctly) by design.

The people that like to do things beyond their "rightful place", like the Gift was, are looking at a tool removed. I know a number of instances where pet pulling was essential for our victories. Like, clearing all the golems in Seb so we could get the Fabled Tolapumj.. while The Fabled Trak was up (Cast Sight to find targets for the win!). And the ghost area in Tipt.. all 65s with a 9000 HP (buffed) tank.. we could not handle more than one ghost at a time. Without pet pulling, our 4+ hour Tipt win might have reached the time limit for all the recoveries.

That said, there are a number of places where I have pet pulled a name from the back of an area to the door.. everything from Chardok to some DoDH instances.. and I see why the loophole had to be closed.

Joy.. another "back in my day we.." thing.

And, pet rune is ok.. but for the really fun pet pulls, Cleric would Bestow Divine Aura (AA).

Wayen, two snaps up. I played Cachet on a raid once.. after I had hasted and C6ed all the groups.. all I could was Tash each mob and hope someone died so I could rebuff. That's why the group stuff was much more fun.. I had to CC mobs.. sometimes too many mobs. Fun times.

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#6 Sep 12 2006 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good

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This change isn't only effecting pet pullers though. This will also effect bards using fade pulling. In case you aren't aware of how it works... You have 2 or more mobs that can't be split because of immunity to lull and mez (or they're too high a level, hello nest!). The bard would target the mob they want to bring, use HoS or something to pull the whole group, then with the correct timing, fade and immediately after bellow the target. USUALLY, since the mob had to wait until the next tick to call for help again, he came single. Exploit? I suppose so, in the strictest of terms. It made it possible to pull some mobs single that otherwise would've wiped the group at the expense of a considerable amount of the bard's mana reserve though.

I'm interested to see how this is going to effect some of the mid-range guilds in their PoP progression as they reach the elementals.

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#7 Sep 12 2006 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent

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What I wonder is, how bad is this going to bugger up the game, and how many emergency patches and roll-backs are we going to have to contend with this time! These changes are pretty close to core operation, and one slip could take out a whole lot.

I think I'm going to avoid the game for the first few days, lurk the boards, and watch the chaos from afar. Smiley: ducttape

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#8 Sep 13 2006 at 1:31 AM Rating: Decent

Debalic

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Odzmye the Venerable wrote:

What I wonder is, how bad is this going to bugger up the game, and how many emergency patches and roll-backs are we going to have to contend with this time! These changes are pretty close to core operation, and one slip could take out a whole lot.

I think I'm going to avoid the game for the first few days, lurk the boards, and watch the chaos from afar. Smiley: ducttape

I predict it *will* end up causing NPCs to swarm the players!

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#9 Sep 13 2006 at 2:46 AM Rating: Decent

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Crap I didnt even think about the ghosts in tipt bleh =( what a pita to pull those without pet pull, was thinking nothing would really bother me losing pet pull but still have people I know that will want to get thru tipt. Sure I farted around a couple times in Chardok with pet pull and did it in Vex Thal too, but no one I know goes there anymore.

Am really curious how this is going to effect bards and the fading memories pulls. I really dont know much about it, but supsect that basically what they are planning on nerfing in the "tick" pull part is FM pulling. Lol maybe again see more monks roaming around to pull if they nerf this who knows, for a bit SKs were pullers of choice too because they could split with snare and FD maybe people will have to go back to the tag pull.

I think what killed chanters getting groups isnt the lack or need of CC so much as the advent of Kei. Most people get there 3 hour or whatever lasting Kei and then look for a shaman for slows and buffs that dont last as long. Another thing that maybe a cause, is the resist rates of most higher mobs seems so atrocious that mez doesnt land well and then the chanter gets pasted for topping the agro list on the try. Sure there is still a call for CC on some raids, but most of the spots people I know level in seem to pull fairly easy for almost anyone (MPG/RSS/Nest/Arcstone). Which is a further demise of the chanter cause, the newer zones just dont seem that compact. In them the worst you seem to get is two mobs which good ole root can usually handle or an offtank. In some cases like Devastation though I suspect its FM pulls as I really have only had luck there with a bard puller.

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#10 Sep 13 2006 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent

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OK, perhaps I mispoke about the spells being only for pulling, but I did go ahead and do SagaSkins on my 67 cleric yesterday cause I'm not fooling with that zone without pet pulls. I absolutely hate that zone, I got KSed by mobs on the red kobold at least 5 times when it was the last mob I had to kill... Anyway offtopic but I recommend doing this crap quest before you have to have a group of 2 sks 2 monks a rezzer and CC just to split a row of 10 Bolvirks.

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#11 Sep 13 2006 at 11:34 PM Rating: Decent

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Crap I didnt even think about the ghosts in tipt bleh =( what a pita to pull those without pet pull, was thinking nothing would really bother me losing pet pull but still have people I know that will want to get thru tipt.

Why do you need pet pulling for Tipt Ghosts? Normal pulls work fine. Heck, I watched a warrior pull them (had a chanter to mezz on this run though).

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#12 Sep 14 2006 at 2:16 AM Rating: Decent

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Why do you need pet pulling for Tipt Ghosts? Normal pulls work fine. Heck, I watched a warrior pull them (had a chanter to mezz on this run though).

Aye you can pull it without pet pull but, pet pull makes it very easy, with almost no risk of adds. Not sure if you know, but I am a necro, so tween pet pull and FD really really hard to get more then one in your camp.

Lol yes I know its not that hard to pull one, just have to be more careful and proximity pull it but typically need at least some CC cause accidents happen.

Hell, I did one once with 3 tanks from one of our "elite" guilds( 1 was their MT, a warrior, other two were pallies), me, cleric and cleric's boxed warrior. Basically we just waded in. Was kind of sick to realize how much better geared they were then my typical group. Cragbeast split why bother pull all the lil ones at once and kill. Ghosts were same thing no reason to split when you have 3 14-15k unbuffed tanks I spose, oh ya and the clerics 10k warrior too =P.

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#13 Sep 14 2006 at 2:25 AM Rating: Good

Felicite

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dfrnchman wrote:

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Crap I didnt even think about the ghosts in tipt bleh =( what a pita to pull those without pet pull, was thinking nothing would really bother me losing pet pull but still have people I know that will want to get thru tipt.

Why do you need pet pulling for Tipt Ghosts? Normal pulls work fine. Heck, I watched a warrior pull them (had a chanter to mezz on this run though).

I can speak to that. The Warrior was 65.. 9000 HP buffed. The Enchanter was 65.. had about 4.5k HP. We could barely handle one.. mez resist = wipe cause the enchanter was one rounded.. clicky Rune and all.

It's trivial now.. with my level 70 DoDH Spell Mission crew. Heck yeah. Pull at will, some AoE aggro (we used an SK) and I would mez em.

But at the time, with 65 toons.. and not A geared. It was a grinder. And you know what, we won on the second try. Yay us.

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#14 Sep 21 2006 at 3:04 AM Rating: Default

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just in ldons alone,i now see problems.i could get them,groups for them,at least,cause i could single pull.2 wipes,and yer losing most ldons.another non solo moment is when tryin to open a camp up,and only pulling 2 or 3,instead of 6 and 8.aint everyday we have a chanter,or bard,in our groups.like the pusling camps in podisease.and once the camp is broke up,i switch pets for more dmg.just another tool soe removed from my ********** still pissed off them jerkoffs took away my corpse summoning business.after buying the spell for 2k,the price dropped a week later(after patch)to 200 plats.and my coffins go unused now.harm touch went from a major dmg to being just aggro getting.they make my toon less effective,while making the game easier for lazy whiners.

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Rashere's latest post, green pet pulling fixed next updateFollow