I have been thinking about what mmorpg.com had to say about what they learned at E3.
"Also in the update are some much needed alleviations to the grind. Previously, characters would have to spend 20 to 45 minutes regaining health and mana between battles. In the next update, rest times will be much, much lower when out of combat"
On the outset this seems nice. However it chances a lot a things about the game. For example I may have made a Warrior rather than a Pally, but I wanted the option of soloing without a lot of downtime bandaging. I am thinking of enchanters who have among many other things to offer a group less downtime for regaining Mana. Will this change lessen peoples desire to play an enchanter or have one in the group? What about all that equipment that give you mana or HP regen. did the price just drop through the floor? Or worst yet the poor player who chose a Troll paid the hight 20% experiance penalty because they have a Regen bonus.
Just some musings about this change that is hinted at in that report.
Hmm I am also wondering who spends 20 - 45 min regaining health and mana. Gota be player with a lot more mana that folks I group with but I an no where near the high end of the game.
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Less Down time a good thing?Follow
More like 2.0 to 4.5 minutes to regain health/mana.
I am pretty sure I can come back from a rez to full health and mana in 10 minutes.
I am pretty sure I can come back from a rez to full health and mana in 10 minutes.
as for the lessend desire of chanters bah, never. chanters are not only wanted for their mana regen spells, dont forget haste, slow, CC, some not so bad DD. a well played chanter can save a group from many deaths.
as for other classes it will/can just make them easier to play and more desireable by the casual player.
less downtime if managed properly is a good thing IMHO.
as for the 20-45min downtimes. i do not know about now but i can remember playing an ogre warrior a long time ago (before SoL but after Kunark. not sure if SoV was out or not) and in my mid 30s it would litterally take 30min to regen enough HP to fight again when solo.
my last 2 toons have limited downtime as a necro and a bard. neither of those 2 classes have much downtime, that is why i play them. not only are they fun and powerful, but they can solo and have extreemly small downtimes compaired to other classes and are NOT reliant on chanters or shamy for mana and hp regens.
as for other classes it will/can just make them easier to play and more desireable by the casual player.
less downtime if managed properly is a good thing IMHO.
as for the 20-45min downtimes. i do not know about now but i can remember playing an ogre warrior a long time ago (before SoL but after Kunark. not sure if SoV was out or not) and in my mid 30s it would litterally take 30min to regen enough HP to fight again when solo.
my last 2 toons have limited downtime as a necro and a bard. neither of those 2 classes have much downtime, that is why i play them. not only are they fun and powerful, but they can solo and have extreemly small downtimes compaired to other classes and are NOT reliant on chanters or shamy for mana and hp regens.
I think it all depends on how much faster. Also they said these changes would only work when out of combat, so clarity line of spells would still be worth having simply because when your in combat you would have that regen. Also this might encourage people to make new charactors so they can see the new content and play with the lower downtime. And we all know we need more lower level palyers in the game. Soon as you outgrow PC its like people drop off the face of norrath.
I just wonder how fast they plan to make it. Do they plan on making it like eq2 where you are full everything in a matter of seconds, or make it so that a person who needs 10 min to get full will only need say 3?
I think it is a much needed change because it is difficult for a new palyer to level up if they don't paly a solo class. I just got back into the game and I made a necro. I would just assume play a tank class but with the lack of low levels to group with it would just take too long to level solo (especially as a non-caster). Add in the practically required AA's and raid gear to tank at the higher levels and it would just be a pain to try and be a tank right now. However with this maybe that will change. I just hope they don't do like eq2 did and make mobs give less exp. In eq2 if you kill a SOLO mob you get terrible exp. I would say in eq2 at lvl 30 you would have to kill 3 yellow solo mobs to get the same exp you would get from a blue mob in eq1.
Also maybe with content for ALL levels maybe it will bring some low level players into the game. If you think about it there has not been a expansion for ALL levels since Luclin? I mean POP = high lvl, LDON 15+, LOY 35ish +, Gates/omens/dodh/don/por all basically high lvl stuff minus monster missions.
I just wonder how fast they plan to make it. Do they plan on making it like eq2 where you are full everything in a matter of seconds, or make it so that a person who needs 10 min to get full will only need say 3?
I think it is a much needed change because it is difficult for a new palyer to level up if they don't paly a solo class. I just got back into the game and I made a necro. I would just assume play a tank class but with the lack of low levels to group with it would just take too long to level solo (especially as a non-caster). Add in the practically required AA's and raid gear to tank at the higher levels and it would just be a pain to try and be a tank right now. However with this maybe that will change. I just hope they don't do like eq2 did and make mobs give less exp. In eq2 if you kill a SOLO mob you get terrible exp. I would say in eq2 at lvl 30 you would have to kill 3 yellow solo mobs to get the same exp you would get from a blue mob in eq1.
Also maybe with content for ALL levels maybe it will bring some low level players into the game. If you think about it there has not been a expansion for ALL levels since Luclin? I mean POP = high lvl, LDON 15+, LOY 35ish +, Gates/omens/dodh/don/por all basically high lvl stuff minus monster missions.
Hi
Progressive health regen since 3 or 4 expansions ago has reduced melee downtime considerably.
Now-a-days, your health regen amount increases the longer you stay seated (or mounted and inactive).
I always thought they would implement this for mana regen sooner or later, hehe...
Now-a-days, your health regen amount increases the longer you stay seated (or mounted and inactive).
I always thought they would implement this for mana regen sooner or later, hehe...
my warrior spends a pretty long time regenning hps, but the time spent regenning endurance is ungodly. it also takes a really long time for a 14k mana caster to regen all his mana.
Yes this change wont mean NEAR as much to the 5k HP/MANA/END player
The folks at the 10k+ area are REALLY hurting.
On raids I am hitting 10k mana. After a ress I Get C6 and aura myself and get oak and SA then listen to the sweet sweet bard song. From there I am regen'ing approx ~ 100 mana per tick. So in about 10 Min I am FM.
HOWEVER during that time every time I get 1300 mana I have to Cast C6 on another group. Once I hae done that 3-5 times depending on the number of chanters on the raid I get to then spend another 1250 mana 3-5 times on haste and then another 250ish on GoD... BTW dont forget the GoB for the Necros. That all assumes noone gets missed by the group version and noone accidently ends up with C6 in their 1st buff slot becasue Rez effects ended at exactly the wrong second.
by time you figuring in Mana pres etc... I spend roughly 2400 mana per group I buff. THEN I get to med to full. It is easy to take 25 min before I am ready and I do not have the worlds largest mana pool by any means. those 14k folks get another 4ish min on top of me.
Add to all of that, END regen SUCKS now. Those guys take even longer as there are no buffs to speed that up.
At 1st I hoped they would do it like they do HP now. The longer you sit the faster you regen. But when you have to stand to cast every 2-3 min, that would not help all that much
*Editied mana cost of a spell... oops
Edited, Fri May 19 15:54:43 2006 by sbs
The folks at the 10k+ area are REALLY hurting.
On raids I am hitting 10k mana. After a ress I Get C6 and aura myself and get oak and SA then listen to the sweet sweet bard song. From there I am regen'ing approx ~ 100 mana per tick. So in about 10 Min I am FM.
HOWEVER during that time every time I get 1300 mana I have to Cast C6 on another group. Once I hae done that 3-5 times depending on the number of chanters on the raid I get to then spend another 1250 mana 3-5 times on haste and then another 250ish on GoD... BTW dont forget the GoB for the Necros. That all assumes noone gets missed by the group version and noone accidently ends up with C6 in their 1st buff slot becasue Rez effects ended at exactly the wrong second.
by time you figuring in Mana pres etc... I spend roughly 2400 mana per group I buff. THEN I get to med to full. It is easy to take 25 min before I am ready and I do not have the worlds largest mana pool by any means. those 14k folks get another 4ish min on top of me.
Add to all of that, END regen SUCKS now. Those guys take even longer as there are no buffs to speed that up.
At 1st I hoped they would do it like they do HP now. The longer you sit the faster you regen. But when you have to stand to cast every 2-3 min, that would not help all that much
*Editied mana cost of a spell... oops
Edited, Fri May 19 15:54:43 2006 by sbs
the change i liked the most for melee soloing was the regen bonus the longer you sit. this with the ability to bandage AND sit at the same time makes it sooo much better to go play one of my lower lvl alts solo (plus being able to bandage to 70%!). plus the addition of the potions, those were some great additions to the game IMO.
Edited, Thu May 18 14:46:11 2006 by Keyera
Edited, Thu May 18 14:46:11 2006 by Keyera
how would this effect say a necro who does not melee? Would he get the bonus for sitting on a mount while his pet tanks? would casting or moving around reset the bonus regen timer?
Sbs thanks for giving me a picture of the high end player. I thought it may be different and since I am not there did not know. And I do realize that an enchaters add much more to the group than mana regen.
I know this will be a good thing for me if they do it. But I have not spent tons of plat on mana regen or hit point regen items. I also dont play a troll with the terrible exp penalty. If they do this they should take the exp penalty off all races they have paid enough.
Hey I may even start that Warrior I would have started but avoided due to the difficulty in Soloing.
I know this will be a good thing for me if they do it. But I have not spent tons of plat on mana regen or hit point regen items. I also dont play a troll with the terrible exp penalty. If they do this they should take the exp penalty off all races they have paid enough.
Hey I may even start that Warrior I would have started but avoided due to the difficulty in Soloing.
To be honest I thought the progressive health regen was enough. Since that was implemented, it can't take more than a few minutes sitting to regen fully. If they want to decrease downtime they should add a similar feature to mana; that would be sufficient imo.
i don't know if sitting on a horse works for the regen bonus :-(
and i would think any detrimental action would re set it.
and i would think any detrimental action would re set it.
Less downtime = less time to be social and see the sights. I realize that not everyone will agree here, but the game was not, IMO, intended to be a race.
Quote:
Less downtime = less time to be social and see the sights. I realize that not everyone will agree here, but the game was not, IMO, intended to be a race.
My 36 Beastlord takes 12 mins to fully regen from 30% health 0% mana at the moment i have to do that every 6-8% (4-5 kills) it takes approximately equal amount of time to kill for the xp as it does to get back to the point i can go again.
I would rather it take more mobs to get the 8% and it only take 2 mins to regen back up. sat on my **** playing /gems is not what i log in to do.
Well these changes are to only be in effect "Out of Combat" that hasnt been defined yet. I can see how a Necro while FD could be seen as out of combat even tho his pet is still fighting.
I hope they find a fair way to handle it.
As for Social interaction during down time... I disagree with your implication that it will be cut down.
The groups I am normally in Chain pull for hours. We interact just fine while playing. Typically if someone dies and we have to take a small break that is when bath room breaks and afks happen. There is much less interaction during down times in my experince.
I agree it used to be that way, but I have not see a Med break outside of a death in years.
As I stated above teh largest change will be fore raids recovering from a wipe. These are the times where 30 or more minutes may pass by before resuming play.
I just hope that places like Guild Hall are perma marked as out of combat so the regen is always in effect there. Would make buffing for raids much smoother
I hope they find a fair way to handle it.
As for Social interaction during down time... I disagree with your implication that it will be cut down.
The groups I am normally in Chain pull for hours. We interact just fine while playing. Typically if someone dies and we have to take a small break that is when bath room breaks and afks happen. There is much less interaction during down times in my experince.
I agree it used to be that way, but I have not see a Med break outside of a death in years.
As I stated above teh largest change will be fore raids recovering from a wipe. These are the times where 30 or more minutes may pass by before resuming play.
I just hope that places like Guild Hall are perma marked as out of combat so the regen is always in effect there. Would make buffing for raids much smoother
Quote:
I can see how a Necro while FD could be seen as out of combat even tho his pet is still fighting.
Don't worry.
Your talking semantics. An FD Necro with a pet in combat is in combat according to game mechanics. In and out of combat are easily and clearly defined according to game mechanics.
After 16 years, I'm not listing every friggin character.
Clerics have the same issue sbs points out regarding chanters. Once mana is enough to cast, coviction is the first thing requested from group memebers. Conviction is a huge mana eater, so once cast the cleric must regen again. Many times it takes a good 20-25 minutes to get up and going again. HoC eliminates this burden somewhat, but invariably someone calls out they didn't get it for some reason, *sigh* so it gets cast yet again.
The worst is when limited play time is a factor, a couple or three rounds of death can easily set a group back over an hour or more.
Many times I don't mind the down time, good chat time etc, especially if the fight has been grueling. Or a good time to quickly do those things that need doing in rl like grabbing food. But if play time is limited it can be very frustrating. Haven't all of us gotten very close to being finished only to have to leave before it is over? How much time was lost through the course of deaths that cost you the finish? (DoDh spell missions come to mind, seems someone always has to leave before it is over).
I hope SOE finds some happy medium here that doesn't negate the effort and pp put into regen items players have put into them, and keeps a little time so I can go make that grilled cheese sandwich I need!
Seamy
The worst is when limited play time is a factor, a couple or three rounds of death can easily set a group back over an hour or more.
Many times I don't mind the down time, good chat time etc, especially if the fight has been grueling. Or a good time to quickly do those things that need doing in rl like grabbing food. But if play time is limited it can be very frustrating. Haven't all of us gotten very close to being finished only to have to leave before it is over? How much time was lost through the course of deaths that cost you the finish? (DoDh spell missions come to mind, seems someone always has to leave before it is over).
I hope SOE finds some happy medium here that doesn't negate the effort and pp put into regen items players have put into them, and keeps a little time so I can go make that grilled cheese sandwich I need!
Seamy
Just hope these changes will apply to Endurance too. On a wipe, either group or raid melee classes start with about 30% endurance. High end melee can have between 7500 and 10k+ endurance. Maximum regen for this is 36/tick. Sitting does not make any difference to the regen rate, something needs to be done to speed this up.
i think it would be good if the mana regen was like the hp. the amount kept going up as long as you didnt cast a spell.
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