I have heard that FD pulling is an art and few people can do it well.
What is it, and what are the techniques ?
Beelze Buub on Tribunal
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I can't say its much of an art now with the advent of HoTT and the mobs forgot message. But its getting mobs to a range where they can be Tagged and identifing when a mob is seperated enough that it can be tagged without drawing agro of the other mobs. Once mob has been tagged and engaged if you have targeted another that had agro you can stand and see if you still hold agro or you wait for the message clear.
FD pulling for monks is a bit easier than for SKs or Necros. It is not all that difficult once you understand a few basics.
1. After level 34 or 35 (MOB level)the mob will re-gain aggro if you stand up. You must wait until:
a. Sufficient time has passed and you get the 'Your enemies have forgotten you' message. I am thinking this is around 2 minutes.
or
b. Mob returns to it's spawn point, in which case you will NOT get a message.
2. If a caster mob is casting a spell on you when you FD, and it lands, you will not be feigned. Time to rinse and repeat.
3. Mob will pass off aggro to nearby mobs even when you are feigned, until you get the message or they all return to spawn point.
The returning to spawn point is the hard part beacause you will not get the message if that is the case.
I do this mostly with monk but the basic procedure is:
1. Try to aggro as few as possible and bring them partway to camp (out of aggro range of course). Monks can lull one with their Phantom line discipline before pull.
2. FD and hope they split up as they leave, allowing a party member to aggro a single (tag) to the group. Sometimes they leave in a bunch so you may need to get up and feign again to get them separated. Allow yourself the room to do this.
3. Usually you need to stay FD until you think it is safe, before joining your group to melee tagged mob. Always check for aggro (mobs running back after you) if you are not 100% sure before you join your group.
1. After level 34 or 35 (MOB level)the mob will re-gain aggro if you stand up. You must wait until:
a. Sufficient time has passed and you get the 'Your enemies have forgotten you' message. I am thinking this is around 2 minutes.
or
b. Mob returns to it's spawn point, in which case you will NOT get a message.
2. If a caster mob is casting a spell on you when you FD, and it lands, you will not be feigned. Time to rinse and repeat.
3. Mob will pass off aggro to nearby mobs even when you are feigned, until you get the message or they all return to spawn point.
The returning to spawn point is the hard part beacause you will not get the message if that is the case.
I do this mostly with monk but the basic procedure is:
1. Try to aggro as few as possible and bring them partway to camp (out of aggro range of course). Monks can lull one with their Phantom line discipline before pull.
2. FD and hope they split up as they leave, allowing a party member to aggro a single (tag) to the group. Sometimes they leave in a bunch so you may need to get up and feign again to get them separated. Allow yourself the room to do this.
3. Usually you need to stay FD until you think it is safe, before joining your group to melee tagged mob. Always check for aggro (mobs running back after you) if you are not 100% sure before you join your group.
FD pull is best done by some class that can snare.
example:
necro and sk with darkness.
cast dark on 1 mob in a group, let the group start to run toward you (note the one that has dark on it will not be moving near as fast) and wait for the snared mob to get to a point that will be OUTSIDE of normal agro range of their spawn point.
FD, when this works, agro is dropped and the mobs will "walk" back to their spawn points.
this is why it is best done by a necro or sk (yes monks can do this too, just not as easy). a mob with dark on it can not walk. they are stuck in place.
once all of the mobs that are NOT the target have returned to their spawn point, you can stand up and continue the attack on the original target.
this will make it easier to solo that 1 mob, or for the group to handle the single pull vs group pull. it will also make it easier to split the spawn on a camp, again making the pulling faster, safer, and more efficient.
once the spawn is split as long as you can stay ahead of the respawn rate you are a god for that camp.
example:
necro and sk with darkness.
cast dark on 1 mob in a group, let the group start to run toward you (note the one that has dark on it will not be moving near as fast) and wait for the snared mob to get to a point that will be OUTSIDE of normal agro range of their spawn point.
FD, when this works, agro is dropped and the mobs will "walk" back to their spawn points.
this is why it is best done by a necro or sk (yes monks can do this too, just not as easy). a mob with dark on it can not walk. they are stuck in place.
once all of the mobs that are NOT the target have returned to their spawn point, you can stand up and continue the attack on the original target.
this will make it easier to solo that 1 mob, or for the group to handle the single pull vs group pull. it will also make it easier to split the spawn on a camp, again making the pulling faster, safer, and more efficient.
once the spawn is split as long as you can stay ahead of the respawn rate you are a god for that camp.
Dothammer wrote:
FD pulling for monks is a bit easier than for SKs or Necros. It is not all that difficult once you understand a few basics.
1. After level 34 or 35 (MOB level)the mob will re-gain aggro if you stand up. You must wait until:
a. Sufficient time has passed and you get the 'Your enemies have forgotten you' message. I am thinking this is around 2 minutes.
or
b. Mob returns to it's spawn point, in which case you will NOT get a message.
1. After level 34 or 35 (MOB level)the mob will re-gain aggro if you stand up. You must wait until:
a. Sufficient time has passed and you get the 'Your enemies have forgotten you' message. I am thinking this is around 2 minutes.
or
b. Mob returns to it's spawn point, in which case you will NOT get a message.
wow, what is this? that is new. since when to mobs post 35(34) maintain agro lists after a successful FD?
I'd rather FD pull with a monk than sk or necro.
17 posts
<<FD pulling for monks is a bit easier than for SKs or Necros.>>
Sorry but I disagree. Not only does my SK pull better, he also pulls faster than a monk (assuming I'm not MT in the group, then your statement would ring true).
Snare pulling is very fast and efficient. And if I happen to get multiples on the pull too close to me, I can even tank them for a while until a successful feign death. I'm not saying monks can't tank (high end) but your typical pickup group monk won't be able to accomplish any of the above without serious risk to him dying or taking forever on the pull.
FD pulling isn't really an art, just takes practice if you've never done it before. There are much more complicated techniques in the game than FD pulling imo.
Sorry but I disagree. Not only does my SK pull better, he also pulls faster than a monk (assuming I'm not MT in the group, then your statement would ring true).
Snare pulling is very fast and efficient. And if I happen to get multiples on the pull too close to me, I can even tank them for a while until a successful feign death. I'm not saying monks can't tank (high end) but your typical pickup group monk won't be able to accomplish any of the above without serious risk to him dying or taking forever on the pull.
FD pulling isn't really an art, just takes practice if you've never done it before. There are much more complicated techniques in the game than FD pulling imo.
im still waiting on clerification on the 34+ not dropping agro after a FD.
is that just BS, or is there something to that.
and yes probably the best puller next to a bard is a druid (although druids have been big time nerfed) is SK, then Necro, and Monk last.
bard = #1 puller in game
pally/cleric/druid = all tied in the #2 or 3 possition depending on level range of mob and outdoor vs indoor
SK is up there as either #2 or #3 under any situation
Necro would be #3 or #4, only reason not as good as SK, is when things go wrong they do not have the AC to survive as well as that SK does.
then Monk comes in last.
now for FD pulling, SK is tops, followed by Necro and then Monk.
both the SK and necro can pull faster and safer then the monk can.
do not get me wrong, monks make good pullers, just not as good as the 2 above. i personally prefer to let the SK pull or monk pull with my necor, but i am extreemly skilled and can pull very well with my necro.
is that just BS, or is there something to that.
and yes probably the best puller next to a bard is a druid (although druids have been big time nerfed) is SK, then Necro, and Monk last.
bard = #1 puller in game
pally/cleric/druid = all tied in the #2 or 3 possition depending on level range of mob and outdoor vs indoor
SK is up there as either #2 or #3 under any situation
Necro would be #3 or #4, only reason not as good as SK, is when things go wrong they do not have the AC to survive as well as that SK does.
then Monk comes in last.
now for FD pulling, SK is tops, followed by Necro and then Monk.
both the SK and necro can pull faster and safer then the monk can.
do not get me wrong, monks make good pullers, just not as good as the 2 above. i personally prefer to let the SK pull or monk pull with my necor, but i am extreemly skilled and can pull very well with my necro.
Mobs 1 to 34 will memwipe 100% of time on a FD. 35+ mobs have a percentage chance to memwipe. Mobs that are fixxed at one spawn point will loose agro once they return to there spawn point. Roamers are the ones that are ones that cause problems with keeping agro even after a FD. If FD person stays FD for two minutes all mobs will loose agro.
I have a 70 necro 70 cleric and 63 monk I would rank there pulling abilitys as necro first monk second cleric third. Snare pulling and pet pulling give necro clear advantage in my view. Monk ranks second because of FD plus limited Lul. Cleric comes in third because of lacking FD and resist chance on cleric lul Cleric has ability to hit two mobs with lul while monk can only hit one but lack of ability to loose agro both on a botched pull are even a one that has suceeded puts cleric at bottum of my list.
I have a 70 necro 70 cleric and 63 monk I would rank there pulling abilitys as necro first monk second cleric third. Snare pulling and pet pulling give necro clear advantage in my view. Monk ranks second because of FD plus limited Lul. Cleric comes in third because of lacking FD and resist chance on cleric lul Cleric has ability to hit two mobs with lul while monk can only hit one but lack of ability to loose agro both on a botched pull are even a one that has suceeded puts cleric at bottum of my list.
SiddarA wrote:
Mobs 1 to 34 will memwipe 100% of time on a FD. 35+ mobs have a percentage chance to memwipe. Mobs that are fixxed at one spawn point will loose agro once they return to there spawn point. Roamers are the ones that are ones that cause problems with keeping agro even after a FD. If FD person stays FD for two minutes all mobs will loose agro.
ok so nothing new.
thanks.
Bards are definitely the best puller in the game with Fading Memories. After that though, I disagree with everyone else here who has ranked pulling by class.
#2 Mage pet pulling with earth pet. The pet doesn't have to get with in melee distance, just keep using /pet attack & /pet back until he procs his root on your mob.
#3 Necro either snare pulling or if it is high level content, pulling with EoT pet (level 59 spell). The only reason I rank the necro lower than the mage is because the necro pet does actually have to get within melee range to get aggro, but with proper precautions (pet rune spell, HoT on pet before pull on heavy hitters) the result will be the same as a mage pet pulling.
#4 Tie between SK/Monk. Maybe I'm a little biased since my main is a monk, but at least at the high end, I feel I can pull as efficient as anyone not listed above. There are a variety of tools available to monks to pull mobs (snare AA, aggro wipe FD AA - timer to reuse though, lull for lower content, and one of things a lot of people aren't good at using, the zone geometry & mob pathing).
In zones that actually require pulling, I don't see ever choosing a cleric, druid or pally over 1 of the 5 classes mentioned above. They just don't have reliable tools to guarantee single pulls.
To the OP, FD pulling is definitely not an art. It's more or less a job that you have go through a training period to become familiar with and like any other job, as you do it more often, you find ways to make your job more efficient.
#2 Mage pet pulling with earth pet. The pet doesn't have to get with in melee distance, just keep using /pet attack & /pet back until he procs his root on your mob.
#3 Necro either snare pulling or if it is high level content, pulling with EoT pet (level 59 spell). The only reason I rank the necro lower than the mage is because the necro pet does actually have to get within melee range to get aggro, but with proper precautions (pet rune spell, HoT on pet before pull on heavy hitters) the result will be the same as a mage pet pulling.
#4 Tie between SK/Monk. Maybe I'm a little biased since my main is a monk, but at least at the high end, I feel I can pull as efficient as anyone not listed above. There are a variety of tools available to monks to pull mobs (snare AA, aggro wipe FD AA - timer to reuse though, lull for lower content, and one of things a lot of people aren't good at using, the zone geometry & mob pathing).
In zones that actually require pulling, I don't see ever choosing a cleric, druid or pally over 1 of the 5 classes mentioned above. They just don't have reliable tools to guarantee single pulls.
To the OP, FD pulling is definitely not an art. It's more or less a job that you have go through a training period to become familiar with and like any other job, as you do it more often, you find ways to make your job more efficient.
bards best most places, then monk, then sk, then necro.
monks cast fd instantly. this both makes avoiding spells easier, and pulling fast mobs easier. then sks > necros just because sks have more hps, so die less when they do get hit.
thats ignoring pe tpullable areas.
Edited, Thu Apr 13 22:23:20 2006 by Groogle
monks cast fd instantly. this both makes avoiding spells easier, and pulling fast mobs easier. then sks > necros just because sks have more hps, so die less when they do get hit.
thats ignoring pe tpullable areas.
Edited, Thu Apr 13 22:23:20 2006 by Groogle
Quote:
wow, what is this? that is new. since when to mobs post 35(34) maintain agro lists after a successful FD?
Since I started attacking level 34s (at least 2 years ago). Seriously, I was freaked the first time I got up and a Storm giant in GD came back and started whupping on me. Prior to this level mobs forget you instantly.
Not gonna debate who is better, I have Monk and SK and I find Monk has quicker more reliable FD than SK, but then again SK is only 37 (abj maxxed btw). True SK can snare to slow one down, but monk has lull.
Sir Groogle wrote:
bards best most places, then monk, then sk, then necro.
monks cast fd instantly. this both makes avoiding spells easier, and pulling fast mobs easier. then sks > necros just because sks have more hps, so die less when they do get hit.
thats ignoring pe tpullable areas.
Edited, Thu Apr 13 22:23:20 2006 by Groogle
monks cast fd instantly. this both makes avoiding spells easier, and pulling fast mobs easier. then sks > necros just because sks have more hps, so die less when they do get hit.
thats ignoring pe tpullable areas.
Edited, Thu Apr 13 22:23:20 2006 by Groogle
Monks also get stonewall. My statement still stands I'd rather monk pull than SK.
Quote:
bard = #1 puller in game
pally/cleric/druid = all tied in the #2 or 3 possition depending on level range of mob and outdoor vs indoor
SK is up there as either #2 or #3 under any situation
Necro would be #3 or #4, only reason not as good as SK, is when things go wrong they do not have the AC to survive as well as that SK does.
then Monk comes in last.
pally/cleric/druid = all tied in the #2 or 3 possition depending on level range of mob and outdoor vs indoor
SK is up there as either #2 or #3 under any situation
Necro would be #3 or #4, only reason not as good as SK, is when things go wrong they do not have the AC to survive as well as that SK does.
then Monk comes in last.
I've seen more SKs and Necros die than than monks.
Pallys don't really pull anymore because paci is limited in the higher end. I can pull with my chanter better than a cleric.
7 posts
Quote:
bard = #1 puller in game
pally/cleric/druid = all tied in the #2 or 3 possition depending on level range of mob and outdoor vs indoor
SK is up there as either #2 or #3 under any situation
Necro would be #3 or #4, only reason not as good as SK, is when things go wrong they do not have the AC to survive as well as that SK does.
then Monk comes in last.
pally/cleric/druid = all tied in the #2 or 3 possition depending on level range of mob and outdoor vs indoor
SK is up there as either #2 or #3 under any situation
Necro would be #3 or #4, only reason not as good as SK, is when things go wrong they do not have the AC to survive as well as that SK does.
then Monk comes in last.
Sorry but any enchater worth a damn can pull better than any Paladin/Cleric/Druid... unless the situation requires a FD/FM pull an enchanter can pull as well or better than any other class.... not to mention the ability to lock down adds on an 'oops' pull. Still there are times when a FD/FM pull is the only real option..... get a Fd'er or GOOD bard then. Please note that truly good bards are easily the rarest creatures in EQ.... most aren't 1/10th as good as they think they are.
I find it fun to pull for my group as a chanter and see how many people are stunned we actually do it well.... it's not even difficult but hey I need something to do in this age of dumbed down content and rarely anything but single pulls. True crowd control skill amoungst chanters is becoming a lost art form.... but thats a topic for another post
Salichon wrote:
Quote:
bard = #1 puller in game
pally/cleric/druid = all tied in the #2 or 3 possition depending on level range of mob and outdoor vs indoor
SK is up there as either #2 or #3 under any situation
Necro would be #3 or #4, only reason not as good as SK, is when things go wrong they do not have the AC to survive as well as that SK does.
then Monk comes in last.
pally/cleric/druid = all tied in the #2 or 3 possition depending on level range of mob and outdoor vs indoor
SK is up there as either #2 or #3 under any situation
Necro would be #3 or #4, only reason not as good as SK, is when things go wrong they do not have the AC to survive as well as that SK does.
then Monk comes in last.
Sorry but any enchater worth a damn can pull better than any Paladin/Cleric/Druid... unless the situation requires a FD/FM pull an enchanter can pull as well or better than any other class.... not to mention the ability to lock down adds on an 'oops' pull. Still there are times when a FD/FM pull is the only real option..... get a Fd'er or GOOD bard then. Please note that truly good bards are easily the rarest creatures in EQ.... most aren't 1/10th as good as they think they are.
I find it fun to pull for my group as a chanter and see how many people are stunned we actually do it well.... it's not even difficult but hey I need something to do in this age of dumbed down content and rarely anything but single pulls. True crowd control skill amoungst chanters is becoming a lost art form.... but thats a topic for another post
Exactly a good chanter can pull if they do it right. When I was 62-65 I would always pull for my groups in BoT. I had one warrior who said it was stupid to let chanters pull because their job was debuffs, slows, and haste the melee and nothing more. I told him to let me have the first 10 pulls and then if the group had a problem with my pulls I would let someone else pull. I pulled non stop for 1-2 hours without a single wipe, or down time not even to med.
I've pulled in zones like WoS, MPG, RSS, DoN, and DoD missions. It's actually best for a chanter to pull if you think about it. Enchanters don't add a lot of dps, they debuff and slow which should be done at the begining of the fight. They don't add much dps. Any other class you lose some of your dps when they run off to get the next mob while the group finishes off the current one.
I love pulling with my chanter, and most of my groups know this. I don't always pull, but the pullers in my group know they can bring more than one mob.
Pallies, clerics, and druids are much lower on the pulling ladder. They lost a lot of their abilities in the higher end game and expansions. Bards are definitely #1 but a good bard is a rare thing to find.
My list would be:
1: bard
2: monk
3: sk
4: chanter
5: necro
6: other
A pullers job is to keep the mobs coming at a consistency that the group can handle. This usually means singles. If you can avoid it you shouldn't have the tank pulling. When you have the tank pulling you lose time between pulls to get another one. (unless you have a good chanter. In my groups I love having the tank pull. He'll run off and grab a handful at a time and I lock them all down). Since the tank isn't pulling the puller should have abilities to lose or drop their agro for the tank to get it. Bards, monks, sk, necro, and chanters all have these kind of abilites.
depends on the zone nothing at all wrong with using a ranger puller speically outdoors.
But Fd pull is as described, one thing about necro pet pull that is overlooked sometimes is that necro can pet pull while FD so has little or no chance of farging it up if they know their stuff with the aa hell they can even FD the pet.
Still ya bards prolly best, and I dont like having to pull so I vote all better then me =P.
But Fd pull is as described, one thing about necro pet pull that is overlooked sometimes is that necro can pet pull while FD so has little or no chance of farging it up if they know their stuff with the aa hell they can even FD the pet.
Still ya bards prolly best, and I dont like having to pull so I vote all better then me =P.
Quote:
My list would be:
1: bard
2: monk
3: sk
4: chanter
5: necro
6: other
1: bard
2: monk
3: sk
4: chanter
5: necro
6: other
Id put mages higher than necros, at least at mid to higher levels. Cast a fire pet that is a green con to the mobs and you are single pulling all day.
Heh pet pull is pet pull hell Sks, shamans, beasties all can do it, its simple green pet pull mob.
SK are one of my fav puller's becasue of pet pulling while FD if pet dies to fast wont agro and wipe group also FD split is great with SK's becasue they can handle a hit or 2 and can use spells like harm sheild also if u do get an add u can offtank it while tank takes other and SK's have some good grooup buffs and can heal HP and mana of group too
Quote:
SK are one of my fav puller's becasue of pet pulling while FD if pet dies to fast wont agro and wipe group also FD split is great with SK's becasue they can handle a hit or 2 and can use spells like harm sheild also if u do get an add u can offtank it while tank takes other and SK's have some good grooup buffs and can heal HP and mana of group too
the last half of your post has absolutely nothing to do with pulling ability =p
still of the 3 classes that can FD pull (monk, sk, necro) i prefer the SK pull vs monk pull. that is personal preferance and has nothing to do with the skill of the puller.
i have seen monks run circles around SKs and necros, but then i have seen SKs do the same, and as a necro i have done the same.
FD pulling tends to work very well, but i prefer the SK and Necro over Monk for splittle larger groups due to Darkness.
hard to beat the raw power of that combo.
that is just MHO.
i have seen monks run circles around SKs and necros, but then i have seen SKs do the same, and as a necro i have done the same.
FD pulling tends to work very well, but i prefer the SK and Necro over Monk for splittle larger groups due to Darkness.
hard to beat the raw power of that combo.
that is just MHO.
fishtaco wrote:
Heh pet pull is pet pull hell Sks, shamans, beasties all can do it, its simple green pet pull mob.
Sorry, but when the mobs hit for 1.5-2k, pet pulling is not trivial for any class that can cast a pet that cons green to the mob. Mages will always be the best pet pullers because 2 of their pets (earth & fire) can proc/cast on their target from a distance so they never have to come in contact with the heavy hitter. Try pet pulling with a shaman or SK on a DoD hard mission in Illsalin and you quickly realize there are classes better suited to pet pulling.
Necros would be 2nd in line because they have FD & pet rune spells that absorb a certain number of hits, not damage. Beastlords would then follow because their pets have decent HP & they have a pet rune spell as well.
SKs & shamans are at the bottom the pet pull ladder because they don't have the spells to safeguard their pet from actually making it back alive. You'll never see a SK pet pull in the Hive or any other similar high level zone for this reason. If there is an SK pulling in these zones, it's with darkness & FD.
Edited, Sun Apr 16 17:11:56 2006 by Phistikuffs
Quote:
Sorry, but when the mobs hit for 1.5-2k, pet pulling is not trivial for any class that can cast a pet that cons green to the mob. Mages will always be the best pet pullers because 2 of their pets (earth & fire) can proc/cast on their target from a distance so they never have to come in contact with the heavy hitter. Try pet pulling with a shaman or SK on a DoD hard mission in Illsalin and you quickly realize there are classes better suited to pet pulling.
maybe I've just been lucky, but I've never had any problems pet pulling on a shaman, anywhere. from RSS to the 70 spell arc.
for that matter... since SKs can FD while pet pulling, they have even less of a chance of ******* up than mages.
I consider 2 necro are sk are combo of two using twin pet pulling at same time while FD as the the safest and most certain way of pulling raid mobs. One pet may splat but other will make it back with mob. Mage Shaman cant do same because if one pet dies all mobs will agro.
Also ive noticed some mobs now agro as soon as you start casting a detrimental spell at them if same aplys to pet casting then there could be a problem for mage pullers in future. I also noticed they changed how necro pet FD works sometime last year a FD pet used to never loose agro unless you used suspend minion but pets now seem to have same rules as players inregards to FD now.
Edited, Sun Apr 16 19:15:44 2006 by SiddarA
Also ive noticed some mobs now agro as soon as you start casting a detrimental spell at them if same aplys to pet casting then there could be a problem for mage pullers in future. I also noticed they changed how necro pet FD works sometime last year a FD pet used to never loose agro unless you used suspend minion but pets now seem to have same rules as players inregards to FD now.
Edited, Sun Apr 16 19:15:44 2006 by SiddarA
Aye mages always wanna argue that but even your best mage will farg up a pet pull now and then, not saying its even as high a percent as 1-100 but when they do its pray the zoneline is close, toss gate, group evac or die.
So lets take that vs Necro or SK. I am pet pulling while FD. I lose the pet what happens? Absolutely nothing. No one is ever put at any risk including myself. I will have to watch it too cause I am pretty sure I have seen my pet Tap from a distance but I wont swear on it and yes EoT can tap. I guess it comes down to how much wool you want to pull over your eyes. Yes you can do it, yes you can do it well but can you honestly say you can do it 100% of the time as in always with 0% risk to yourself and your group. You cant and if it makes you feel better lie to yourself and say you can.
So lets take that vs Necro or SK. I am pet pulling while FD. I lose the pet what happens? Absolutely nothing. No one is ever put at any risk including myself. I will have to watch it too cause I am pretty sure I have seen my pet Tap from a distance but I wont swear on it and yes EoT can tap. I guess it comes down to how much wool you want to pull over your eyes. Yes you can do it, yes you can do it well but can you honestly say you can do it 100% of the time as in always with 0% risk to yourself and your group. You cant and if it makes you feel better lie to yourself and say you can.
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