How many people will TRULY leave EQ for Vangaurd?Follow

WoW is fun and it's definately different from EQ but I'd be hard pressed to say it's "better". Aspects are much easier which is blessing and curse -- for instance, tradeskills are much easier, but there isn't much pride in hitting 150 or whatever (out of 300) as a tailor because everyone has a main or an alt able to grind out the exact same stuff you can. Skill and spell sets are much shallower than in EQ (really, EQ is deeper in that regard than any other MMO I've played) and there's less classes, starting areas, etc. But it's fun to play, you can advance well with casual and solo play regardless of class and makes for an attractive and enjoyable world.

I don't know if I'd want to play it for six+ years like I did with Everquest but it's a fun way to pass the time until I try Vanguard.

I haven't played EQ in a while, still pay for my accounts. I will continue to pay for them when I am on VG as well.

I agree with Jophiel.

I've heard some of the negative feedback on Vanguard and it's also still in beta. I'm planning on trying it out and see how I like it.

Also the majority of WoW's player base is completly new to MMOs. A lot of the people that played diablo, starcraft, warcraft, etc tryed WoW. They tell their friends and it grows from there. It's gotten it's name out there through word of mouth and winning awards etc. It is a fun game when you don't have a lot of time to play and I think that's part of the appeal of it. It is lacking some things that makes EQ fun.

I won't be jumping ship until much farther into Vanguard's release to decide for sure. EQ won't be around forever, but it's not leaving any time soon.

I don't know... I am biased against some of the games listed.

WoW to me is not what was expected. It was great the first 40 levels or so and then it completely dropped off for me from there. I can not stand the types of people attracted to playing that game. That was probably the #2 thing that drove me from it. The people are absolute morons. They are so caught up in being d00ds cursing out everyone in sight, /spitting, and believing (the non-asian karate figure that will not be named) and Leeroy Jenkins are the be-all-end-all of comedy I can't imagine how anyone's head doesn't implode from playing it more than an hour an evening.

I don't even have to begin to mention their technical woes. The lag, the server crashes, the patch time, their sucktastic bit torrent. Their community managers are a bunch of babbling, uninformed, egotistic idiots, but if I had to deal with what they deal with on the boards I would probably become sub-human as well.

The defining factor for me is I cancelled my account, but it is paid up until July. I have not logged into that game since January. I haven't even felt a need or want to. That's how much that game sucks it in my book. I'm sure for others it's all about the PvP and if that's your cup of tea that keeps you there, great! For me, I could care less if the game had PvP or not. It wasn't something I was looking for, it was implemented BADLY, and is still not a draw for me post implementation. I browse their boards once a month for laughs because it is the same crap everytime I look at it.

SERVERS DOWN
NERF SHAMAN
WHEN IS MY CLASS RESPEC
etc

In any event I feel that WoW came with a a pre-built audience of it's own. You had everyone who played Warcraft 1 on up through the Diablo games and Starcraft who wanted to play Blizzard's next big "thing".

Their number of of subscribers is astounding, but look at their launch. Look at how they have spread. They knew what countries to hit. They had the distribution in place. How far did EQ go? Europe and that was about it. Blizzard went straight on for the Asian markets which I am sure easily bolstered their numbers. SoE was never as aggressive, which isn't the game's fault, it's the company behind the game. I'm not sure what Sony's excuse is... I guess they are happy they sell as many TV's as they do a year.

As far as Vanguard is concerned, at least for me, right now all it is is eye candy. Anyone I have talked to has mentioned that the fighting is like a job and that the UI is lacking. I read the same exact things about DDO in beta and you know what... nothing was done about it. It went to launch with the problems its beta testers told them about. Let's see if Sigil listens to its testers. Same thing happened with Auto Assault. I beta'd that. Worst part of it was the UI. Did they change it. Nope. Released as it was.

I haven't heard anything about Vanguard downtime as of yet. I just know that Brad has always been for it for balance reasons. I know that for me personally, EQ as a game got progressively better once he left. They began to reduce a lot of the senseless downtime he felt was so necessary. Don't get me wrong when I first started playing it was amazing from Nov '99 on up to the Velious expansion.... somewhere after Velious is when it started to suck.

I reserve judgement on Vanguard. If they let me beta it I'd have a more informed opinion. Thusfar they're about the only game I haven't gotten invited to a beta for. I don't apply just to be the first cool kid on the block to play it. I actually beta test it and send in lots of suggestions. It's their loss. I'd like there to be an updated version of EQ out there if that is what Vanguard aspires to be. Thusfar, from what I hear, it's missing the mark in a lot of ways.









Edited, Wed Apr 12 15:20:08 2006 by Snarlfang

Edited, Wed Apr 12 15:21:57 2006 by Snarlfang

I'm sure you have your reasons for disliking WoW and that they're valid reasons for you. Which is all that matters.

My point is just that no one is aspiring to be the "next EQ" any more. That's like hoping to enter the soft drink market and be the next RC Cola. I'm sure that RC has its loyal following and that the people at RC are able to pay their bills but they're not exactly a luminary in the beverage business these days.

Talking about the quality of the game and mixing that with talking about the commercial success of the game is just a nonsense, they are very different subjects.

If WoW is a true commercial success, one of two things will probably happen, SOE will buy out Blizzard, or SOE will sell SOE Online Games to Blizzard.

Shareholders will only throw CAPEX at a new idea for so long before ditching it. On the other hand if the online gaming business is truely profitable then shareholders will want to control as much of it as possible.

It appears that WoW has hit upon a successful mix of product and demographic. If they can hold that position, the business will be very desirable to its competitors.

SOE Online Games may or may not be profitable, an organisation like SOE may well decide to accept a loss making subsidiary/division for a period of time because it is filling a role within a larger strategy. They have made a very big push into establishing themselves with a dominant market share of the online entertainment business, online commerce, be it shopping, services or entertainment is the growth secgment of the consumer markets. A business like Sony will be doing all that it can to hold on to and increase its share of this.

I have no doubt that WoW is a matter of concern to them, sooner rather than later they will do something about it.

Vanguard is simply irelevant to them. If in year or so's time it has a significant subscription base it will come onto the radar, right now, all it is doing is costing someone several huge fortunes to get it out into the market. A very high risk venture.

P.S. I have no intention of leaving EQ, after nearly 6 years I still have countless things yet to achieve.

Edited, Wed Apr 12 23:37:34 2006 by Iluien

Edited, Wed Apr 12 23:45:12 2006 by Iluien

Hmm, I didn't mean "success" in that sense, but more to do with bottom line profit and return on investment while holding onto market share.

Coca-Cola and Cadbury Schweppes would love to take each other out (or at least some investment bank would love the fees to engineer it /wink), but the anti-trust laws forbid it. However, both have got to their dominant position by taking out as much of their (profitable) competition as they could get away with.

I'd bet that SOE/Sony have taken a look at the thought of buying out Blizzard, I agree they will be very concerned about the market share WoW has gained.



Rough though they may be these numbers really do tell the sales story.

1. There is a huge market out there if you can get your product right.

2. SOE don't have their product right.

What we don't know is the return on investment, its possible that EQ is still a great earner for SOE relative to the investment they made. But as my original proposition stated, I'd doubt that Sony will be happy with being a minor player for very long, regardless of the profit ratio.

Edited, Thu Apr 13 02:11:16 2006 by Iluien

Man, I'll never understand how you've had time to follow the developers so much.

So they thought kiting was as exploit? The ones who are making Vangaurd? *Laughs* Maybe I'll have to wait for the next EQ killer. Still, let's see.

You're pretty good with links, right? Have one to where they said something about it? Doesn't have to be exact.

too lazy to dig up a link to a six year old dev post.. although, for that matter it's probably on the old boards that sony deleted.

eq's original devteam basically hated the idea that anyone would be able to solo.



sorry, people ten levels lower than you arent who sony caters to.

anyone who is a hardcore gamer isn't ten levels lower than you are for more than an hour or two.

if people ten levels lower are wizzing by you... then upgrade the gear you got at level ten, or stop whining.

Edited, Thu Apr 13 11:48:39 2006 by Groogle

Edited, Thu Apr 13 18:19:09 2006 by Deodhlais

What size asshat do you wear again, Groogle?
I'd love to get you a thank you gift for your insightful commentary, doncha know.

To the OP....that's why they call it an 'addiction.'

all i have to say on vanguard is that after reading about it i am a little bit curious to how well it is thought out and the game play on it.. i'm not sure if i would quit everquest over it but i would certainly play both.

The problem with your post is that Brad left after Velious.