even in those situations skill doesnt play a big part.
if in the situation with the cleric LD tank down, theres a few options available which depend on the zone your in, the level of the players and the equipment each has, if you have a backup healer - a druid or a shaman for instance, they can take over heals (dependant on the above) if you have a knight or even a ranger or beast lord etc (also dependant on the above) then they may be able to take over tanking, if you have none of these, you may need to evac or fd or whatever backup spells/abilities you have to use, of course you need to be lucky enough to have time to use em, none of these things take a great deal of skill, all they require is a little knowledge of such situations and knowledge of the zone your in.
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Which Class takes the most skill to play.Follow
The answer to this question is easy.
There are 4 classes in this game that are 100x harder than any other class...
1) Raid Tanking Wizards
2) Raid MHing Pallies
3) Zerker Pullers
4) Non complaining druids >_>
There are 4 classes in this game that are 100x harder than any other class...
1) Raid Tanking Wizards
2) Raid MHing Pallies
3) Zerker Pullers
4) Non complaining druids >_>
elorianBLAH wrote:
4) Non complaining druids >_>
LOLOMGINTERNET
You're right on the money with the rest of them though.
Jeez, what do druids have to complain about? I heal well, I can nuke pretty well with the AA's, I can DoT, I can port, I can slice, I can dice, I can mince a f'ucking pie with my bare hands. Seriously though, what do druids have to complain about?
necros are rather easy to play, unless you are running an undead Instance or in an undead zone without a shammy, chanter, or priest and the necro has to be all the above. then a necro can be a challange and require real skill to play.
as for most skill it would be a Bard first and formost, followed by a Chanter IMHO.
as for most skill it would be a Bard first and formost, followed by a Chanter IMHO.
Quote:
Jeez, what do druids have to complain about? I heal well, I can nuke pretty well with the AA's, I can DoT, I can port, I can slice, I can dice, I can mince a f'ucking pie with my bare hands. Seriously though, what do druids have to complain about?
They complain about not having those 2 damn auras.............the healing and nuking ones(get over it druids you are a healing class not a nuking class =p) those 25 % increases to heals and nukes or whatever the heck they are =p
TBH EVERY class is easy to play.........even a bard or chanter or whatever.....It's easy..........but to play them well is hard(and they are all about equal.....no class is harder to play well then another....)
i got an 8.4k nuke crit last night on my druid, might not be quite the 20k crits wizzies get but its definately up there with the other high nukers.
I made a bard at one time, but I abandoned him after a while because I was tired on the constant button mashing! With other casters you get at least a minute to med or wait for aggro to die, and with melee many times you are just letting autoattack do it's thing (I know, I know, there's more to it)... but with the bard all I was doing was switching songs constantly. I haven't tried it since they introduced the 'song macro' thingy, but I'm sure they still have to do a bit of work to play the class well. So, for hardest class (in terms of what takes the most concentration and physical effort), at least in my experience, pre-macro bards.
Other than that, I'd say overall melee classes have a harder time than casters, who can for a lot of the time sit on their butt (or mount's butt) and click a spell here and there. Of course that's just in terms of standard grinding.. if you get into any real heavy stuff a chanter's job ain't easy.
Other than that, I'd say overall melee classes have a harder time than casters, who can for a lot of the time sit on their butt (or mount's butt) and click a spell here and there. Of course that's just in terms of standard grinding.. if you get into any real heavy stuff a chanter's job ain't easy.
bard is alot easier these days then it used to be. you can make keys to play 4 songs easy at once. before they had to time it all and press each button at the right time.
this person summed it up best for me:
"The harder you play any class, the better you'll do. You can do things most people think are impossible playing it well enough."
that is so very true.
every class can get by in a day to day group/raid environment as long as they pay attention. the hard part isn't the class it's self. it is mainly paying attention.
the ones that shine are the ones that step up in dificult times and do things they are not expected to do.
i myself see my class being a bot all of the time. does that mean cleric is easy? no. i can bot a bard just as easy and have it singing me 4 songs non stop at the press of a button, same with a cleric bot that all you use it is for heals. i have botted a necro on raids just to twich mysef.
but if someone plays hard, i mean anticipates and does whatever is needed to make whatever the group/raid is doing a success, then whatever class THAT person is playing, is hard.
/shrug
this person summed it up best for me:
"The harder you play any class, the better you'll do. You can do things most people think are impossible playing it well enough."
that is so very true.
every class can get by in a day to day group/raid environment as long as they pay attention. the hard part isn't the class it's self. it is mainly paying attention.
the ones that shine are the ones that step up in dificult times and do things they are not expected to do.
i myself see my class being a bot all of the time. does that mean cleric is easy? no. i can bot a bard just as easy and have it singing me 4 songs non stop at the press of a button, same with a cleric bot that all you use it is for heals. i have botted a necro on raids just to twich mysef.
but if someone plays hard, i mean anticipates and does whatever is needed to make whatever the group/raid is doing a success, then whatever class THAT person is playing, is hard.
/shrug
I vote GM is the hardest (class?) to play.
You log in *Whammy!* /tell GM /tell GM /tell GM /tell GM...
Then you have to fix some crazy something or other, and all of a sudden you're a super hero /spam /spam /spam..
IDK, maybe logging on is a bit of a break for them from number crunching or the customer service help desk, but still. ULTIMATE UNIVERRSAL POWER!! itty-bitty living space
You log in *Whammy!* /tell GM /tell GM /tell GM /tell GM...
Then you have to fix some crazy something or other, and all of a sudden you're a super hero /spam /spam /spam..
IDK, maybe logging on is a bit of a break for them from number crunching or the customer service help desk, but still. ULTIMATE UNIVERRSAL POWER!! itty-bitty living space
Like some one said its an "apples and oranges" argument, all classes played at their basic group or raid level are easy and there is not much difference between them.
The warrior that stabs one of his taunt buttons periodically is not different tot he cleric who sits on his horse stbbing his Ch button periodically. And no different to the bard who loads up his attack AC and resist songs hits his autosong button and stands around till the mob is dead.
But if someone continually tries to play their character to the maximum level that the character can contribute, then it becomes a different story. The cleric who is tossing out group heals in between CH's, curing curses/dots, doing mgb heals, rebuffing rezzed peeps, rebuffing DI on the tanks as they rotate, is not only doing twice as much work as a warrior (sorry warriors but you guys that 2 box warrior/clerics know what I am saying), they are contributing an enormous amount to the group or raid's chance of success.
You can say the same about a bard, if the bard is handling CC duties, assistng the chanters and knights, helping the pullers, curing and singing the songs that are needed for each type of mob or encounter, then the bard is working very hard indeed and adding hugely tothe group or raid's chance of sucess.
Sooo... played to the classes maximum potential in group or raid situation, I would say that the ranking is something like;
Cleric (requires most skill to reach full potential)
Druid
Bard
Enchanter
Shaman
Shadowknight
Warrior
Necro
Mage
Paladin
Beastlord
Monk
Rogue
Beserker
Wizard
Ranger (requires least skill to reach full potential)
For soloing the list is completely different of course.
Edited, Tue May 23 01:00:32 2006 by Iluien
The warrior that stabs one of his taunt buttons periodically is not different tot he cleric who sits on his horse stbbing his Ch button periodically. And no different to the bard who loads up his attack AC and resist songs hits his autosong button and stands around till the mob is dead.
But if someone continually tries to play their character to the maximum level that the character can contribute, then it becomes a different story. The cleric who is tossing out group heals in between CH's, curing curses/dots, doing mgb heals, rebuffing rezzed peeps, rebuffing DI on the tanks as they rotate, is not only doing twice as much work as a warrior (sorry warriors but you guys that 2 box warrior/clerics know what I am saying), they are contributing an enormous amount to the group or raid's chance of success.
You can say the same about a bard, if the bard is handling CC duties, assistng the chanters and knights, helping the pullers, curing and singing the songs that are needed for each type of mob or encounter, then the bard is working very hard indeed and adding hugely tothe group or raid's chance of sucess.
Sooo... played to the classes maximum potential in group or raid situation, I would say that the ranking is something like;
Cleric (requires most skill to reach full potential)
Druid
Bard
Enchanter
Shaman
Shadowknight
Warrior
Necro
Mage
Paladin
Beastlord
Monk
Rogue
Beserker
Wizard
Ranger (requires least skill to reach full potential)
For soloing the list is completely different of course.
Edited, Tue May 23 01:00:32 2006 by Iluien
Although I disagree that druids take that much skill to play at full potential, I must say there are a lot of utilities that druids have that are overlooked. I run into far too many druids that don't have Skin of the Reptile, don't know how to use Gift of Mana to its potential (GoM with a proc'd Dawnstrike plus epic click using a 40% focused nuke = up to 5k+ damage without a crit for free. My new ring from Ragewind certainly helps with that), I have yet to get that damage mitigation PBAE snare spell to really try it out (I'm still missing the runes for it), etc. Also, I've gotten complimented on being a more efficient and better healer than clerics, especially in DoNs for whatever reason.
Being an efficient and advanced druid is simply a matter of understanding when to dot, when to nuke, when to heal for maximum potential, when the cleric is going to need that patch heal to get the CH off in the time, etc. It's all a matter of timing.
One thing that kinda bugs me is that in terms of max damage, most druids just chain rains with a nuke in between, but it's actually more mana efficient to do something along the lines of vengeance, time dot clickie (you better have it), dawnstrike (in case of proc and it's a minimal difference in mana to damage efficiency compared to the ice nukes), then ice nuke a couple of times (that's usually all that lasts during the short fights, and the ice nuke is only assuming you have a better focus for it to make it more efficient, plus I guess it is faster by .7 without quick damage) and you'll end up doing about 10-11k during a fight for about 3/4ths the cost of the 12-13k damage you did with those nukes and rains. Actually, I don't even use my rains anymore, vengeance almost always lasts the full duration and with a fire damage focus it'll end up doing 1.25 the damage of a full-hitting rain for 2/3rds the cost.
Ooo, I like how I think.
Edits: I write gud. Also, I kind of want to do more tests on this and write some sort of dissertation on druids and stuff. Yay for thinkings! Holy crap did I need clarity too. I need to stop writing like I'm talking to myself.
Edited, Tue May 23 01:25:45 2006 by Brudish
Being an efficient and advanced druid is simply a matter of understanding when to dot, when to nuke, when to heal for maximum potential, when the cleric is going to need that patch heal to get the CH off in the time, etc. It's all a matter of timing.
One thing that kinda bugs me is that in terms of max damage, most druids just chain rains with a nuke in between, but it's actually more mana efficient to do something along the lines of vengeance, time dot clickie (you better have it), dawnstrike (in case of proc and it's a minimal difference in mana to damage efficiency compared to the ice nukes), then ice nuke a couple of times (that's usually all that lasts during the short fights, and the ice nuke is only assuming you have a better focus for it to make it more efficient, plus I guess it is faster by .7 without quick damage) and you'll end up doing about 10-11k during a fight for about 3/4ths the cost of the 12-13k damage you did with those nukes and rains. Actually, I don't even use my rains anymore, vengeance almost always lasts the full duration and with a fire damage focus it'll end up doing 1.25 the damage of a full-hitting rain for 2/3rds the cost.
Ooo, I like how I think.
Edits: I write gud. Also, I kind of want to do more tests on this and write some sort of dissertation on druids and stuff. Yay for thinkings! Holy crap did I need clarity too. I need to stop writing like I'm talking to myself.
Edited, Tue May 23 01:25:45 2006 by Brudish
Scholar
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I play a pally mostly. It is not that hard. But in any special circumstance all classes can be hard. At times when cleric is going down it nice to run up and use LoH. Or if cleric goes down its a challenge to keep the tank alive or if you staying alive. Hot key group heals come in handy. And in really long battles and raids i have ran around and rezzed people so the cleric could continue to keep others alive. Turning mobs so pets can back stab or for lazy rogues. Chain stuning to keep aggro. It can get tricky.
I have played a wiz before. I was able to watch TV and just hit a hot key spell and never move and i did just fine. But like i said in any special circumstance any class can get tough.
I think pulling and any class that has to mezz has it the worst. A bad pull or a missed mezz and your group wipes. And any one that wants to solo at high levels needs lots of skill.
I have played a wiz before. I was able to watch TV and just hit a hot key spell and never move and i did just fine. But like i said in any special circumstance any class can get tough.
I think pulling and any class that has to mezz has it the worst. A bad pull or a missed mezz and your group wipes. And any one that wants to solo at high levels needs lots of skill.
Druids are the "gap fillers" of EQ.
All the way from ToV to Tacvi I've sen the best druids being able to spot where the weakness is and plug it. Whether it be jumping in to patch a wobbly CH chain, using fast heals to keep people up under the nastiest AE's, curing tanks who's HP are draining away because of a DoT, stepping up with the DPS when the most of the mages and wizzies have been killed, or dragging mobs away from the pack and keeping them rooted until CC can take over.
Not to mention things like CoW a cleric back in before the wipe sets in.
Most of the time in raids a good team of druids are both a substantial part of your healing and your DPS strength. Of course a lazy druid can sit back and just do one or the other and a lot of the time no one would notice, (except the other druids /wink).
But the "skill" of playing a druid to its maximum potential lays in the ability to spot where the weak spot is and know how to use your class to shore up that weak spot, while you continue to do your regular job.
All the way from ToV to Tacvi I've sen the best druids being able to spot where the weakness is and plug it. Whether it be jumping in to patch a wobbly CH chain, using fast heals to keep people up under the nastiest AE's, curing tanks who's HP are draining away because of a DoT, stepping up with the DPS when the most of the mages and wizzies have been killed, or dragging mobs away from the pack and keeping them rooted until CC can take over.
Not to mention things like CoW a cleric back in before the wipe sets in.
Most of the time in raids a good team of druids are both a substantial part of your healing and your DPS strength. Of course a lazy druid can sit back and just do one or the other and a lot of the time no one would notice, (except the other druids /wink).
But the "skill" of playing a druid to its maximum potential lays in the ability to spot where the weak spot is and know how to use your class to shore up that weak spot, while you continue to do your regular job.
there are a -lot- of warriors who suck at raiding, that would seem to indicate it's not one of the easier classes =p
Sir Groogle wrote:
there are a -lot- of warriors who suck at raiding, that would seem to indicate it's not one of the easier classes =p
You mean like warriors that insist on using cyclone, while your lone enchanter is flat out trying to keep five mobs mezzed in camp? [:p:]
Aye, what you said Iluien goes along with what I said. Knowing exactly what to do at exactly the right time. All it takes is somebody with enough brains and elbow-grease to do things matter-of-factly and right on time.
Quote:
Cleric (requires most skill to reach full potential)
Druid
Bard
Enchanter
Shaman
Shadowknight
Warrior
Necro
Mage
Paladin
Beastlord
Monk
Rogue
Beserker
Wizard
Ranger (requires least skill to reach full potential)
Druid
Bard
Enchanter
Shaman
Shadowknight
Warrior
Necro
Mage
Paladin
Beastlord
Monk
Rogue
Beserker
Wizard
Ranger (requires least skill to reach full potential)
I agree with most of this list though I would put a few of the DPS classes lower
Cleric (requires most skill to reach full potential)
Druid (same a cleric and shaman..learning when to spot heal is a hard skill...it takes a sort of "feel" from what I hear)
Shaman(the reason for the move is b/c learning to spot heal is a skill.....there is no set rule heal on x%....)
Bard(ya bards are hard =p)
Enchanter(mezzing is hard.....)
Shadowknight (harder than Pallies b/c they have to pull sometimes and also need to know how to loose agro)
Warrior (not as easy of a class as you would think....you need to know your ****)
Paladin (don't know much about pallies other than stuns and group heals)
Beastlord (erm....ya semi DPS....i guess you need to know when to use your pet =p)
Monk (dps and pulling not to hard once you know how to pull)
Beserker (dps class it's easy)
Wizard (DPS class it's easy)
Ranger (DPS class it's easy)
Mage (DPS class it's easy)
Rogue (DPS it's easy.....)
Necro(DPS class it's easy)
DPS classes are a lot easier now b/c warriors can hold agro.........really for caster DPS the only set back is mana.........why did you list necros so high??? they Dot/FD/Tap when needed????hell it's easy Wizards, Mages and Rangers are all harder b/c they have super high Burst DPS and no way to fully drop it...
Edited, Wed May 24 00:17:09 2006 by elorianBLAH
heh
is nice to see some apreciate a well played cleric ;-)
i myself know it is a very demanding class, at least how i play.
but then i look at myself as way more than just healing.
;-) just the other day i kited Ragefire 2.0 for the last 18% or more after the warrior that was kiting it died. kinda suprised myself, and a few others i think. now i know many (classes) could have done it, but when the warrior went down, guess who rage was looking at? me. so instead of waiting for someone to save me, i just took over kiting. that is exactly what everyone is talking about it isn't "always" the class, it is who decideds to do what ever it takes to make the raid group a success.
is nice to see some apreciate a well played cleric ;-)
i myself know it is a very demanding class, at least how i play.
but then i look at myself as way more than just healing.
;-) just the other day i kited Ragefire 2.0 for the last 18% or more after the warrior that was kiting it died. kinda suprised myself, and a few others i think. now i know many (classes) could have done it, but when the warrior went down, guess who rage was looking at? me. so instead of waiting for someone to save me, i just took over kiting. that is exactly what everyone is talking about it isn't "always" the class, it is who decideds to do what ever it takes to make the raid group a success.
Hehe, I put the pet classes up higher simply because knowing when and how to use your pet seems to be difficult to do. Something like the warrior learning how to use cyclone 
Unmanaged pets are a frequent cause of raid wipes and swarm pets a frequent cause of tank deaths due to the mob being pushed out of CH range. Seems to be a difficult skill to learn
Conversely using the right pet in the right spot can add a good advantage to the team.
A good Necro can also be a boon to the healers by keeping them mana pumped when the chips are down and being able to pick the right spot and time to FD and rez back in a cleric or two can save a lot of time for both groups and raids.
Sadly so many necros have been soloing for so long that they never think about attaching themselves to the heal team and helping out.
Edited, Wed May 24 03:53:47 2006 by Iluien
Unmanaged pets are a frequent cause of raid wipes and swarm pets a frequent cause of tank deaths due to the mob being pushed out of CH range. Seems to be a difficult skill to learn
Conversely using the right pet in the right spot can add a good advantage to the team.
A good Necro can also be a boon to the healers by keeping them mana pumped when the chips are down and being able to pick the right spot and time to FD and rez back in a cleric or two can save a lot of time for both groups and raids.
Sadly so many necros have been soloing for so long that they never think about attaching themselves to the heal team and helping out.
Edited, Wed May 24 03:53:47 2006 by Iluien
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