FabledFollow

Oh, you must be paying at least twice as much as non-raiders/Casual players to get better gear? Or, is your argument that you deserve it because you have no life outside of EQ?
I cannot see how your monthly subscription fees entitle you to more than anyone else paying the same amount?


Casual/Non-Raider here 11khp (unbuffed) lvl 70 warrior 650AA's.
Keep trying, your intelligence is almost enlightening.


Or maybe I am like this poster and have a life outside EQ?



That argument was already stated.


I never said high end was not trash to the people that could get it. Like most fabled, by the time you can get it, its trash.



I agree totally. That was very elloquently put.

So give up having any kind of a life so I can raid/raid/raid?

Point is Raid guilds make up less than a quarter of SoE's population, so why is so much geared towards them?

They do not pay more to play, yet they typically spend more time on line.

So, isn't SoE making more money off the casual player who has a life? Thus should not more gear be set aside for them?

This is nonsense, I have been a member of three different raiding guilds over the past five years, each of them raided three nights per week.

The membership reflects the normal make up of the EQ community. There are a few teenagers, there are a few oldies but the majority are people in their late 20's and 30's with jobs and kids and come home from work, tuck the kids into bed and go raiding for 4 hours, three nights per week.

The idea of a raiding guild raiding 24/7 is a complete myth.



I couldn't debate the numbers here as I have no way of determining what the propoertion is. Where did you get your numbers from?

But, if you do not understand the importance of the raiding/progression component of EQ, then you do not understand the game at all.

Its a team game (it used to be a role playing team game /sigh)
Its a progression game. There is no end, you always have one more challenge to face.

The whole ethos behind the success of EQ is based on the knowlege that every player has, that there is something bigger and better and more glorious that he/she can attain to if they want to try.

Not everyone wants to try, not everyone has the capacity to try at a given point in time. But the appeal, the "addiction" comes from the knowing that there is that possibility there available to you.

Take away that posibility and you have a game with no purpose.



You've lost me here. You seem to be trying to equate paying the subscription to the right to develop your character.

We all pay our subscription fee for just one purpose, to maintain access to the game.

Some people pay their subscription and almost never log on. They keep paying simply because they want to keep the option open, to be able to play if they feel like it (or get a bit more spare time etc).

Other people pay their subscription to keep a bazaar mule logged on 24/7.

And the majority of us fall somewhere in between. I don't see what this has to do with the "right to get more gear".

You get better and better gear by killing harder and harder mobs.

Some mobs become so hard that you simply cannot kill them by yourself, so, you have to form a group and kill the mob a team.

And then some mobs are even harder still and you need several groups to get together and act as a team to kill it. And the "gear" gets even better.

Eventually the mobs are so hard that you need a well trained, disciplined and highly co-ordinated team to be able to kill the mob. Then the "gear" is really really good.

Its called reward for effort.

The well trained, disciplined and highly co-ordinated team didn't just flop into place one day when some one said "hey lets form a guild".

It takes countless hours of hard work and dedication over a long period of time. And I'm not talking about just play time, you ask some of the other long term raiders on this board about how much time is put in behind the scenes, in emails and on guild boards, sorting out all that it takes to manage a group 40 or 50 people.

I'm not saying this to make out that it is so hard, in case that is what you think. I'm just pointing out that the people who get the "uber" lot in the game earn it because they put in the effort to play the game the way it was designed to be played.

*sigh*

I don't think the point was to put down raiders. I think what is trying to be said, is that we all pay the same subscription fee and yet part of the game is unattainable to those that don't raid.

One example used was the regular at a restaurant. The thing is regular or not, the menu is the same. The food isn't better, just possibly the table. Those who are not regulars in the restaurant do not get a different menu is my point. And though the option is there, there is no way to 'order' the house best by the non-raider. Anyone can order the house best in a restaurant as long as you can pay for it.

Ok so I see it as we all have first class tickets, yet some of our headphones don't work, so we don't get to hear the movie only see it. Yet, we pay the same. I think that was the point. Anyway so much for analogies. LOL

There is an undercurrent of discontent regarding this, there really is no point in getting into a mud-slinging round about it. Non-raiders are not happy with Sony, it is that simple. It is a topic that several plan to bring up at the Developer's Brunch during Fan Faire. (Not that I personally think it will do any good, but that is me.)

My question is why have a game that makes a large part of the progression unattainable for so many players? Raiding is not a part of the game many people want. It can be chaotic, messy, stressful, demanding and impersonal....but also rewarding obviously. But it is only rewarding because of the very issue of uber loot not being available to non-raiders. Why Sony pits the two against each other I don't understand. But I suspect (I may be wrong, no doubt) that most people would not raid if there were other ways to get the same gear.

Point being it is a different game if you do not raid, or if you do raid. I raid once a week with an Alliance of non-raiding guilds. This we do simply to get flags etc, that we can't get in groups. Will we ever be able to raid in Anguish, no. Do we wish we could, yes. Do we want to give up our 'family' type guilds to do so, no. So we watch the movie with no sound. But still we wish Sony would issue us some headphones you know. ;)

Seamy

this thread is too stupid to bother replying to =-(

DOH!




Another open minded movie watcher!!

Let me thank Crgaming for having information from the old newsletter handy. Saved me some digging.

Listing of top end raiding guilds by server. <here><here>


Kytherea's Keepsakes – March 23, 2006Kytherea's Keepsakes – March 23, 2006


Edited, Fri Mar 24 14:09:54 2006 by Pongu

Everybody 65+ has half a dozen sub-60 alts bumming around on their accounts, bazaar mules notwithstanding.

Sure, most Everquest characters are not raiders. Most are little-played or all but forgotten toons. You'd need to look at the players raiding at 65+.

Yep.

With no plan or purpose I have ended up with seven low level alts, results of either experiments or boredom. Not counting two bazaar mules.

Five of the seven have serious time played on them and to a casual examination of the data base would look like normal played characters. (ie Yesterday I spent the afternoon getting a couple of levels on my necro because I wanted to see what the next level of pet was like ).

I haven't played the mage in more than six months, but she gets logged on to recieve handmedowns and various bits of junk, so even she would look like a casually played character.

We have around 50 raiders in our guild, every one of them would have at least a couple of alts that they play casually/regularly.

I think that there probably are more "non raider" players than "raider" players (if you define raiding as progression raiding), but those stats (above) don't prove anything.

Ok even with the reasoning of 1 main and 7 alts, the high level raiders still only occupy 12.5% of an actual server.

As for the yahoooo that said we want stuff handed to us, well go watch the movie because you missed the intent of this post.
I want stuff that takes great effort to be worth getting when I get it.

If I can get similar gear casually grouping where ever I may group, then why should these special fabled mobs not drop better for the extra effort required to take them out?

Even my alts are not that desperate for lame Fabled Gear.

things that make you go hmmmm....


if the majority of players are low lvl......how come i see so many posts complaning that low lvls can never find a group? hmmmmmmmmm.....


the answer to this? they are vastly IMO ALTS. and when people play their alts, they log on other acounts to play with them.

your numbers saying 12. whatever % are high lvl players i think is way off.

i am not a hard core player, yet i have more than one account. both are filled, each account has at least one high lvl, but the rest are all low lvl "for fun" alts.

i know people in my guild with 3-4 and even 5 accounts.

so then i guess my own alts fuel your numbers, since i realy only have one "main" yet i have two accounts both filled with alts....

oh well, i don't care, most the fabled gear is crap anyway, at least if you hang out in an area that i hunt in, i will swoop in kill the crap and let it rot or give to people (like you). that would actualy use it.

/shrug