What would make a good third for a trio with a Half Elf Bard and a Dark Elf ShadowKnight?
I already have a Shaman alt so I don't want to make a second one.
Thanks!
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If you don't want to try another Shaman then that limits you to a Druid or a Cleric you will need a healer
you've already got tanking and utility. The only good choice is a cleric.
IMHO a druid would be a great fill for you, the ability to port can come in very handy and succor can save you some precious exp. The only other sensible choice is a cleric which will of course enable you to trio a bit harder content possibly. Although in non raid situations I feel a druid can perform on par with a cleric with a little more down time for medding.
Good luck!
Good luck!
I have had good trio-groups with Warrior/Bard/Druid.
Shaman makes the best sense for healing and buffing.
Having a healer take up the slack for the weaknesses of SK/Bard would likely be best, so I would go Cleric or Druid if not Shammy.
If you didnt want to go with a healer then you can make a case for some other classes.
Pally: Can heal besides off-tank.
Mage: Pet dps, does not require healer for pet.
Wizard: Burst DPS and transport/evac
Monk: DPS and survivability (FD, mend)
Shaman makes the best sense for healing and buffing.
Having a healer take up the slack for the weaknesses of SK/Bard would likely be best, so I would go Cleric or Druid if not Shammy.
If you didnt want to go with a healer then you can make a case for some other classes.
Pally: Can heal besides off-tank.
Mage: Pet dps, does not require healer for pet.
Wizard: Burst DPS and transport/evac
Monk: DPS and survivability (FD, mend)
If you are going to go healer I'd really recommend Cleric over Druid in this case. Why? Well bard and SK can both snare so no druid needed there. Bard can cover most other utilities a druid gives except transport but in today's game that isn't as important as it used to be. There are serveral points during your levelling where a druid's healing is only sub-par for what you need. A cleric gets complete heal at 39 and from that point on your are golden on healing. Of course the cleric has better HP buffs and the biggest reason of all is Rez.
2 years ago my kids and I start a warrior, druid, and bard. By the mid 30's the druid just couldn't keep up with heals so we started a 4th account and started a cleric which I 2 boxed. Eventually we got my wife sucked into playing so she plays the cleric now. Without the cleric we would have been required to find one for decent group experience from the 30's on. By having one in the group we could effectivly group without having to rely on finding another group member. While I love having the druid in the group and he adds a lot of diversity, if I HAD to drop one the druid would be the first to go.
2 years ago my kids and I start a warrior, druid, and bard. By the mid 30's the druid just couldn't keep up with heals so we started a 4th account and started a cleric which I 2 boxed. Eventually we got my wife sucked into playing so she plays the cleric now. Without the cleric we would have been required to find one for decent group experience from the 30's on. By having one in the group we could effectivly group without having to rely on finding another group member. While I love having the druid in the group and he adds a lot of diversity, if I HAD to drop one the druid would be the first to go.
That's a hard choice. The druid will have a hard time keeping up in the 40's/early 50's, but once they get their 3k CH, everything will be fine again.
As much as I hate to say this, I'd suggest a druid. The extra DPS will be welcome, and you can always supplement the healing power of the druid with the new healing potions.
DPS + Transport really makes the case here.
As much as I hate to say this, I'd suggest a druid. The extra DPS will be welcome, and you can always supplement the healing power of the druid with the new healing potions.
DPS + Transport really makes the case here.
Mages are great for fear KIteing once they get their rouge pet backstabbing water pet FTW! Damage shields,Super Damage shields and nukes secondn only to wizard, free food,fireworks, beer n water, TRods for mana, summoned pet toys at higher lvls. If your inta trade skills they can Imbue. summoned knives and shureikins
Not to forget 100% weight reduceing 10 slot no rent bags on demand.
Not to forget 100% weight reduceing 10 slot no rent bags on demand.
Hmmm... it seems to be down to a Cleric, a Druid or the dark horse candidate a Paladin.
So correct my misconceptions here.
The Cleric would be heals, buffs, rez's and..??
The Druid would be DoT's, buffs, heals and transport.
The Paladin would be melee, buffs, heals and rez's.
How do Clerics do damage? Do they use DD, DoT's or melee?
Do any of these three classes get decent nukes?
How good or bad are Paladins as melee toon? I've heard some unflattering things from a friend who has one as his main and regrets the time spent.
Oh and since I haven't asked enough questions, can Bards heal at all?
Thanks again for the input!
So correct my misconceptions here.
The Cleric would be heals, buffs, rez's and..??
The Druid would be DoT's, buffs, heals and transport.
The Paladin would be melee, buffs, heals and rez's.
How do Clerics do damage? Do they use DD, DoT's or melee?
Do any of these three classes get decent nukes?
How good or bad are Paladins as melee toon? I've heard some unflattering things from a friend who has one as his main and regrets the time spent.
Oh and since I haven't asked enough questions, can Bards heal at all?
Thanks again for the input!
How do Clerics do damage? Do they use DD, DoT's or melee?
Clerics get direct damage spells for both normal and undead. They also get undead fear and damage over time spells. Their DD spells pretty much say on par with Druids though their undead DD spells are more mana efficient.
Do any of these three classes get decent nukes?
Paladins only get nukes to undead, druid and cleric both get decent nukes that are similar. Clerics are magic based and Druids are cold/fire based. Druids get outside only stuns and clerics get stuns that work everywhere. This is pretty crucial when you start fighting mobs that cast complete heal on themselves. Druids get damage over time spells that are not as good as a shaman's but can certainly help with the DPS.
How good or bad are Paladins as melee toon? I've heard some unflattering things from a friend who has one as his main and regrets the time spent.
They are good but as you already have a SK you would be duplicating their tanking ability. Their heals lag behind clerics and druids and for the group you have I don't see them adding much. That being said, Paladins are a good class that can tank as well as SK's.
Oh and since I haven't asked enough questions, can Bards heal at all?
Bards do not get direct heals. They get regen songs for both health and mana. Not much help when your SK is taking a beating and about to die. You will need a direct healer for that situation. One thing no one has mentioned that you may not have found out yet and many people don't know: bards are some of the best pullers in EQ, I'd rank them right after monks. The reason being that they get a lull song that doesn't require line of site to cast and has a long range. That plus haste, mez, charm, resist buff songs and on and on makes having a well played bard in your group a real gift.
Clerics get direct damage spells for both normal and undead. They also get undead fear and damage over time spells. Their DD spells pretty much say on par with Druids though their undead DD spells are more mana efficient.
Do any of these three classes get decent nukes?
Paladins only get nukes to undead, druid and cleric both get decent nukes that are similar. Clerics are magic based and Druids are cold/fire based. Druids get outside only stuns and clerics get stuns that work everywhere. This is pretty crucial when you start fighting mobs that cast complete heal on themselves. Druids get damage over time spells that are not as good as a shaman's but can certainly help with the DPS.
How good or bad are Paladins as melee toon? I've heard some unflattering things from a friend who has one as his main and regrets the time spent.
They are good but as you already have a SK you would be duplicating their tanking ability. Their heals lag behind clerics and druids and for the group you have I don't see them adding much. That being said, Paladins are a good class that can tank as well as SK's.
Oh and since I haven't asked enough questions, can Bards heal at all?
Bards do not get direct heals. They get regen songs for both health and mana. Not much help when your SK is taking a beating and about to die. You will need a direct healer for that situation. One thing no one has mentioned that you may not have found out yet and many people don't know: bards are some of the best pullers in EQ, I'd rank them right after monks. The reason being that they get a lull song that doesn't require line of site to cast and has a long range. That plus haste, mez, charm, resist buff songs and on and on makes having a well played bard in your group a real gift.
I would have to say Dru on this one. While druids do have a major gap in their healing spells, bouncing agro between the Bard and the SK shouldn't be a problem, allowing the dru to heal.
One thing I havn't seen mentioned yet is the druids ability to charm/DC. A properly buffed DC pet can make a world of difference when combined with a decent DoT stack.
As far as a clerics DD spells being on par with a druids, I can't say for a fact as I have never played a cleric but I have yet to see it.
The final thing is DPS. Every little bit helps.
One thing I havn't seen mentioned yet is the druids ability to charm/DC. A properly buffed DC pet can make a world of difference when combined with a decent DoT stack.
As far as a clerics DD spells being on par with a druids, I can't say for a fact as I have never played a cleric but I have yet to see it.
The final thing is DPS. Every little bit helps.
Cleric and Druid DD are similar, with Druid a bit ahead. Druids get DoTs for all mobs, Clerics get DoTs for undead.
I forgot to add mage pets can stun things players cant add 2 mages and mobs goes down fast
Here are the things a Cleric or Druid can add to your group.
Cleric:
On Site Rezzing (#1)
Best heals
AC and hit point buffs
Root
Pacifing mobs
DD damage
Stuns
melee acceptable
Druids:
Acceptable Heals
Regen
Damge Sheilds
AC and Hit point buffs
Str buffs
Sow
Pacifing Mobs (Outside only)
DD Damage
DoT Damage
Evac
Teleports
Roots/Snare
DC / Pets
Halfling Druids get a personal exp bonus
Edited, Fri Dec 9 08:13:32 2005 by Krackum
Cleric:
On Site Rezzing (#1)
Best heals
AC and hit point buffs
Root
Pacifing mobs
DD damage
Stuns
melee acceptable
Druids:
Acceptable Heals
Regen
Damge Sheilds
AC and Hit point buffs
Str buffs
Sow
Pacifing Mobs (Outside only)
DD Damage
DoT Damage
Evac
Teleports
Roots/Snare
DC / Pets
Halfling Druids get a personal exp bonus
Edited, Fri Dec 9 08:13:32 2005 by Krackum
49 posts
Alot depends on a few things -
Do you want to level past 50?
and
Is this meant to be a purely self sufficient group?
If you don't plan on leveling past 50, I would put my money on the druid. The healing power of a cleric isn't required until the later levels and even then some druids can hold their own. Also, having a druid allows for a variety of playstyles. Yes, with the shadowknight, you can do a standard tank-healer setup, but if you're feeling frisky, why not do a kite group? I don't know of many mobs below level 50 that summon. Druids are really versatile, and IMO, versatility = fun.
If you do plan on going past 50, it will progressively become harder for the druid to keep the knight alive. It will require more downtime medding, unless you're willing to go out and look for more group members at that point. Clerics are definately the best healers in the game, mechanic-wise, but I never found them much fun to play.
After all this talk about druids, I think I want to go make one *laugh*
Do you want to level past 50?
and
Is this meant to be a purely self sufficient group?
If you don't plan on leveling past 50, I would put my money on the druid. The healing power of a cleric isn't required until the later levels and even then some druids can hold their own. Also, having a druid allows for a variety of playstyles. Yes, with the shadowknight, you can do a standard tank-healer setup, but if you're feeling frisky, why not do a kite group? I don't know of many mobs below level 50 that summon. Druids are really versatile, and IMO, versatility = fun.
If you do plan on going past 50, it will progressively become harder for the druid to keep the knight alive. It will require more downtime medding, unless you're willing to go out and look for more group members at that point. Clerics are definately the best healers in the game, mechanic-wise, but I never found them much fun to play.
After all this talk about druids, I think I want to go make one *laugh*
"Halfling Druids get a personal exp bonus"
Halfling Cleric get a personal exp bonus as well. Wife plays one because of the bonus. She does not play as much and need all the help she can get keeping up with me and my sons on leveling. Their starting wisdom is not bad either. she like hide halfings get while medding also.
Halfling Cleric get a personal exp bonus as well. Wife plays one because of the bonus. She does not play as much and need all the help she can get keeping up with me and my sons on leveling. Their starting wisdom is not bad either. she like hide halfings get while medding also.
I think it depends enormously on how good your bard is.
A good bard can cover an awful lot of ground in terms of CC, interupting casters, etc etc.
A boxed/inept bard playing mana-song is an entirely different animal.
The gap in druid healing will hurt from 30-50ish. Against that you have better nukes. I don't care what it says on paper. Cleric nukes are abysmal against most mobs. You also get a boost from damage shields and DoT spells. And although all three have snare spells the druid is the longer lasting if you turn to kiting.
Clerics have the advantage of the Pacify line. I know bards also get this ability but I've never played one far enough to find out how good it is. Druids have Harmony for outdoor use which is good as far as it goes (I like dungeons)
You will pass through a period where the cleric has greater surviveability due to plate versus leather but this changes in the Planes to a point where you get hit, you die in plate or leather because you lack the proper mitigation to match the armour.
I would vote Druid.
A good bard can cover an awful lot of ground in terms of CC, interupting casters, etc etc.
A boxed/inept bard playing mana-song is an entirely different animal.
The gap in druid healing will hurt from 30-50ish. Against that you have better nukes. I don't care what it says on paper. Cleric nukes are abysmal against most mobs. You also get a boost from damage shields and DoT spells. And although all three have snare spells the druid is the longer lasting if you turn to kiting.
Clerics have the advantage of the Pacify line. I know bards also get this ability but I've never played one far enough to find out how good it is. Druids have Harmony for outdoor use which is good as far as it goes (I like dungeons)
You will pass through a period where the cleric has greater surviveability due to plate versus leather but this changes in the Planes to a point where you get hit, you die in plate or leather because you lack the proper mitigation to match the armour.
I would vote Druid.
Wherever I go - there I am.
For that trio a druid would be better than a cleric.
I think a druid can heal post 50 fairly well in my experience, another thing not mentioned is the mana regen included in the druid buff line.
There is one thing about druid being ok healing past 50 that everyone seems to miss out on. If a druid is having to heal the SK in the 50's and there are no other healers in the group then it will take most if not all of the druid's mana to keep the SK healed (druid healing not nearly as mana efficient as cleric's). This means that the utility you get from having the druid is gone because he/she no longer has mana for DD or DoT's or anything else.
Now, we still have not heard from the original poster on whether they intend to group with others or want the group to be self seficient. If they expect to pick up a LFG cleric to group then by all means go druid. However, if they want to be self-seficient then in my opinion the cleric is the only way to go. From my experience, in the early 50's fighting in the basement of PoJ there is no way my son (druid) could have kept me alive and still had any mana left to do anything else.
Now, we still have not heard from the original poster on whether they intend to group with others or want the group to be self seficient. If they expect to pick up a LFG cleric to group then by all means go druid. However, if they want to be self-seficient then in my opinion the cleric is the only way to go. From my experience, in the early 50's fighting in the basement of PoJ there is no way my son (druid) could have kept me alive and still had any mana left to do anything else.
I guess it depends on how well you are equipped. My druid/sk/wiz combo do very well together, and druid and sk have duoed in WoS even, but that is a while down the road.
My druid gets a few shots in on most battles and is especially handy when I need that kill shot or a stun.
One key if u do go with a druid is Drog!
Oh yea and SoW/SoE etc very handy!
My druid gets a few shots in on most battles and is especially handy when I need that kill shot or a stun.
One key if u do go with a druid is Drog!
Oh yea and SoW/SoE etc very handy!
Wow! Thanks for all the replies and input!
For the most part this would be a stand alone group, my Wife and I and a local friend.
It's down to Druid or Cleric.
For offense Clerics seem to be better at melee and Druids seem to be better at DoTs.
For defense it's plate vs. leather, does either class have an inherent benefit over the other defensivly?
For other stuff it's SoW, buffs and ports vs. heals, HP buffs and rez's.
Damn this is tough.
For the most part this would be a stand alone group, my Wife and I and a local friend.
It's down to Druid or Cleric.
For offense Clerics seem to be better at melee and Druids seem to be better at DoTs.
For defense it's plate vs. leather, does either class have an inherent benefit over the other defensivly?
For other stuff it's SoW, buffs and ports vs. heals, HP buffs and rez's.
Damn this is tough.
If I were your friend, I'd pick Druid. Clerics are very group dependent, and not nearly as versatile as Druids. Not having a rezzer in the group is a pain, but with the guild lobby summoners, it's not nearly as big an issue as it used to be.
Edited, Fri Dec 9 21:16:08 2005 by Gladestrider
Edited, Fri Dec 9 21:16:08 2005 by Gladestrider
Either one you pick wont make that big of a differance at lower levels, but at higher levels the choice you make is really going to stick out.
I have never played a cleric but the last thing you want is to have a cleric CHing the group and then running into melee range. This is a quick way to get one dead cleric. Every time I hear the term Battlecleric I load my healing spell set.
At higher levels the plate vs. leather arguement means little. Neither class is designed to take damage for an extended period of time.
Druids have abit more to offer than that. You are forgetting about a very important spell called a Damage Shield, as DPS is an issue every little bit helps.
Druids also have the ability to do some makeshift crowd control.
Clerics have the upper hand when it comes to undead but in the same aspect druids have the upper hand when it comes to animals.
Quote:
For offense Clerics seem to be better at melee and Druids seem to be better at DoTs
I have never played a cleric but the last thing you want is to have a cleric CHing the group and then running into melee range. This is a quick way to get one dead cleric. Every time I hear the term Battlecleric I load my healing spell set.
Quote:
For defense it's plate vs. leather, does either class have an inherent benefit over the other defensivly?
At higher levels the plate vs. leather arguement means little. Neither class is designed to take damage for an extended period of time.
Quote:
For other stuff it's SoW, buffs and ports vs. heals, HP buffs and rez's.
Druids have abit more to offer than that. You are forgetting about a very important spell called a Damage Shield, as DPS is an issue every little bit helps.
Druids also have the ability to do some makeshift crowd control.
Clerics have the upper hand when it comes to undead but in the same aspect druids have the upper hand when it comes to animals.
Okay, now to complicate the issue.
The Bard is our friends toon and a lot of the playing will be with the trio but the DE SK is my Wife's toon and we may duo a bit with them if our friend can't play.
Does this in any way change the outcome?
The Bard is our friends toon and a lot of the playing will be with the trio but the DE SK is my Wife's toon and we may duo a bit with them if our friend can't play.
Does this in any way change the outcome?
The bard is going to offer alot of utility. If you dont have the bard around the Druid is A MUST.
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