Ok this morning I was 3 boxing in HoH 67 Nec 66 Mage and a 62 Sham. I had just setup their AA exp bar to all be at approxemently 0% to be equal. Giving them all 100% AA exp I would assume they would gain AAs in the following order 67, 66, and followed by the 62. With AA exp being based at level 51, and group exp being divided with 67 getting the bigest share then the 66, then the 62.
What happened caught me completely off guard the 62 got the first AA while the other 2 were at about 80%.
By my understanding of AA exp this does not make any sense could someone explain. I have always been under the impression level 65 was the Ideal level for doing AAs.
Edited 67 Necro is an Iksar, 66 Mage is a DE, 62 Shaman is an Iksar
Edited, Sun Aug 14 14:47:12 2005 by Krackum
Edited, Sun Aug 14 16:14:25 2005 by Krackum
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AA Exp I am a bit puzzled???Follow
Well, the 62 toon may have been eligible for the 5-level-range bonus, and the others not? Not sure what levels the mobs you were hitting are...but if they're 60 or lower, that would explain some of it.
The Iksar xp penalty should have been in play, also, right?
The Iksar xp penalty should have been in play, also, right?
Majority of the mobs were 62 with a few 61s
The lower level toon would have gotten aaxp faster for being lower level. When you level up you get less aaxp for fighting the same mobs. WoS is a good example of this. Many choose to get lots of aas at a lower level since it is faster than waiting till you are lv 70.
The amount of total aaxp needed is based off being lv 51 but lower level toons will gain aaxp faster since they get more.
The amount of total aaxp needed is based off being lv 51 but lower level toons will gain aaxp faster since they get more.
The total amount of xp is divided up the same way as normal for killing a mob, but this does not take into account that higher level toons gain aas slower than lower level toons.
Edited, Sun Aug 14 17:37:41 2005 by TheGreatSieg
Edited, Sun Aug 14 17:37:41 2005 by TheGreatSieg
Quote:
The total amount of xp is divided up the same way as normal for killing a mob, but this does not take into account that higher level toons gain aas slower than lower level toons.
Uhhh, no. The difference he encountered is because of the 5 level difference bonus. A level 70 can get AA's just as quick as a level 55, 60 or 65, as long as he hunts the right mobs. In the OPs case, he was basically AA PLing his lower level toon.
A 70 won't get any AA for killing a level 55 mob, where a level 55 toon will get a decent amount. Have both of those toons kill a level 66 mob and the 70 toon would get more experience for being within the 5 level bonus range. Your level alone doesn't determine the speed at which you gain AA's. It's the mobs level (for total amount of exp gained), your level vs the mobs level (for 5 level bonus), and kill rate. It's true that it usually takes longer for higher level toons to get AAs if they solo the entire time, but that has to do with mob difficulty and kill rate rather then the actual level.
Edited, Sun Aug 14 21:39:23 2005 by Jiggidyjay
I'm confused (no real surprise there!)
Are you saying you set: (numbers following completely made up in order to gain a better mental picture)
67 at say 30% aa and 70% exp
66 at 35% AA and 65% exp
62 at 60% aa and 40% exp
with all 3 toons starting very near the beginning of an AA exp bar...
in hopes of having them all ding an AA at approximately the same time since they all grouped together and got the same number of kills (albeit a different amount of exp per kill)...
For each kill, the 67 gains X amount of exp points, the 66 Y amount of exp points and the 62 Z amount of exp points, where x + y + z = total amount of exp gained for killing 1 mob and X, Y and Z are all after various modifiers that adjust how much exp that toon gets for that one kill.
edit: Oh yeah, and X is greater than Y and both X and Y are greater than Z (actually, with this level range X and Y might be significantly greater than Z).
Did I get that right?
Edited, Sun Aug 14 18:52:45 2005 by Kanador
Are you saying you set: (numbers following completely made up in order to gain a better mental picture)
67 at say 30% aa and 70% exp
66 at 35% AA and 65% exp
62 at 60% aa and 40% exp
with all 3 toons starting very near the beginning of an AA exp bar...
in hopes of having them all ding an AA at approximately the same time since they all grouped together and got the same number of kills (albeit a different amount of exp per kill)...
For each kill, the 67 gains X amount of exp points, the 66 Y amount of exp points and the 62 Z amount of exp points, where x + y + z = total amount of exp gained for killing 1 mob and X, Y and Z are all after various modifiers that adjust how much exp that toon gets for that one kill.
edit: Oh yeah, and X is greater than Y and both X and Y are greater than Z (actually, with this level range X and Y might be significantly greater than Z).
Did I get that right?
Edited, Sun Aug 14 18:52:45 2005 by Kanador
Quote:
For each kill, the 67 gains X amount of exp points, the 66 Y amount of exp points and the 62 Z amount of exp points, where x + y + z = total amount of exp gained for killing 1 mob and X, Y and Z are all after various modifiers that adjust how much exp that toon gets for that one kill.
edit: Oh yeah, and X is greater than Y and both X and Y are greater than Z (actually, with this level range X and Y might be significantly greater than Z).
edit: Oh yeah, and X is greater than Y and both X and Y are greater than Z (actually, with this level range X and Y might be significantly greater than Z).
All 3 toons starting an AA bar at 0%, All toons are set for 100% exp to go to AA, Mob range is 60-64 majority of the mobs are level 62 even con to shaman some are yellow and a few are Blue.
What suprised me was the 62 dinged an AA first and by a considerable margin
Edited, Sun Aug 14 19:18:20 2005 by Krackum
ahh....
ok... the scenario makes sense...
ok, then moving on to the 5 level difference bonus?? is this where if the toon is within 5 levels of the mob being killed? or is the 5 level bonus have to do with group makeup?
ok... the scenario makes sense...
ok, then moving on to the 5 level difference bonus?? is this where if the toon is within 5 levels of the mob being killed? or is the 5 level bonus have to do with group makeup?
What was the race of the necro and mage? could they have a penalty?
OK the 5 level bonus has to do with the level of the mob vs. the level of the toons killing the mob. The shammy got xp faster becasue every mob killed was in the bonus range for him. The other 2 were occasionaly outside the bonus so they moved a bit slower.
As far as I know racial penalties do not apply to aa xp. You mentioned that your 2 higher level toons, the mage and necro, both had about the same aaxp. Well an iksar has a racail penalty and a de doesnt. So this shows that there is no racial penalty.
As far as I know racial penalties do not apply to aa xp. You mentioned that your 2 higher level toons, the mage and necro, both had about the same aaxp. Well an iksar has a racail penalty and a de doesnt. So this shows that there is no racial penalty.
Was the leader of the group earning Leadership AAXP? That takes 20% away from earned xp. If this is the case, I'm presuming your mage was group leader: Iksar Necro (-20%), DE Mage (-20%), Iksar Shaman (-20%, + level range bonus).
Fairly simple the way Jiggedy explained it.
The mobs were level 60-61 for the most part.
The level 62 got the 'within 5 levels of mob' xp bonus.
The 67 and 66 did not receive any xp bonus since they were greater than 5 levels above the mobs' level.
The mobs were level 60-61 for the most part.
The level 62 got the 'within 5 levels of mob' xp bonus.
The 67 and 66 did not receive any xp bonus since they were greater than 5 levels above the mobs' level.
The 5 level bonus is 5 level below you... ie to keep people from farming Dark blue mobs as far below there level as possible. At 65 you get more exp killing 60-64 dark blue mobs than you do a 59 dark blue mob.
That said you get even MORE exp for killing white, more fore killing yellow, and even more for killing red mobs.
That al went in at the same time but folks dont usually addresas the white/yellow/red factor as most people would prefer to chain pull blue mobs than kill fewer higher exp mobs.
Based on
and
I would say that the 67 and 66 were both getting the 5 level Dark blue bonus but the 62 was recieveing the white/yellow bonus which is greater than the bonus the other 2 toons were getting.
Edit: Typos and clarifcation
Edited, Thu Aug 18 09:31:05 2005 by sbs
That said you get even MORE exp for killing white, more fore killing yellow, and even more for killing red mobs.
That al went in at the same time but folks dont usually addresas the white/yellow/red factor as most people would prefer to chain pull blue mobs than kill fewer higher exp mobs.
Based on
Quote:
Majority of the mobs were 62 with a few 61s
and
Quote:
majority of the mobs are level 62 even con to shaman some are yellow and a few are Blue.
I would say that the 67 and 66 were both getting the 5 level Dark blue bonus but the 62 was recieveing the white/yellow bonus which is greater than the bonus the other 2 toons were getting.
Edit: Typos and clarifcation
Edited, Thu Aug 18 09:31:05 2005 by sbs
tchzarmok wrote:
Was the leader of the group earning Leadership AAXP? That takes 20% away from earned xp. If this is the case, I'm presuming your mage was group leader: Iksar Necro (-20%), DE Mage (-20%), Iksar Shaman (-20%, + level range bonus).
Leadership xp only takes away from the group leader's xp.
Quote:
Leadership xp only takes away from the group leader's xp.
I'll go slow.
Iksars have a natural, negative xp modifier, due to their improved regeneration (and heat vision?).
Dark Elves have a natural, negative xp modifier, due to their (Edit 2) Ultravision (/Edit 2); though, the supposition is that the DE penalty is less than the Iksar penalty.
Therefore:
If the Mage was group leader, although he/she would have a lesser penalty than the Iksars, if they were cumulating Leadership points, then the xp penalty would appear to be > 20% (racial penalty + loss from leadership xp [20%]).
Although the 62 Iksar has the same racial xp penalty as the 67 Iksar, the 62 is within the 5 level range for an xp bonus.
Furthermore, the OP didn't provide enough information for us to know if the 67 or 66 character had more or less than the other. If I am right, then I'd imagine the 66 DE Mage would have less earned AAXP than the 67 Iksar Necro, due to also earning leadership.
Quote:
while the other 2 were at about 80%
This is an approximation. And my hypothesis, is an approximation that falls within the realm of the given information. I may not be absolutely correct, but I may be partially correct. Only the OP can really correct me by saying if the Mage was group leader (and earning leader xp), or not.
Edit 1: If the mage was not earning leader xp, then this suggests the DE penalty is closer to the Iksar penalty. I was under the impression, this was not the case, but I honestly don't know for sure. Something else to think about, what if the 62 Iksar was leader, and earning leader xp. Then that suggests, being within the 5 level range gives a MASSIVE xp boost.
Edited, Mon Aug 15 22:31:22 2005 by tchzarmok
[i]Edited, Tue Aug 16 01:07:59 2005 by tchzarmok
People misunderstanding the leadership xp penalty is a pet peeve atm. Nice clarification. (iksar also get an ac boost for their 20pct)
Quote:
Dark Elves have a natural, negative xp modifier, due to their (Edit 2) Ultravision (/Edit 2); though, the supposition is that the DE penalty is less than the Iksar penalty.
DE's don't get any racial experience penalty. Barbs, ogres, trolls and iksar get penalties. Halflings get bonuses. Those are the only racial experience modifiers. There are additional class modifiers, as discussed in this thread.
Nice thread JJ. I couldn't resist the temptation to do some testing on my own. You are correct, Dark Elves do not have a negative racial xp modifier (though, I didn't see anywhere in the thread mentioning this; it only mentioned which races did have the penalty. Rather than assume DE's were normal xp by exemption of being mentioned, I simply verified it).
Through independent testing, I can verify that Iksars have an approximate 20% (closer to 17%) xp penalty modifier when compared with Humans and Dark Elves. Humans were used as the control, to verify DE's were earning the same xp.
What's interesting is the class xp distribution.
Not sure when SOE declared this, but I found it quoted from a post marked January 2005, in the thread linked by JJot7S. As of today, class archetypes gain xp at varying speeds, but individual classes within the broader archetype, gain xp at the same speed. There are some exceptions, as noted below.
Classes without Racial XP Penalty
Int-Casters: Wizard, Enchanter, Necromancer, Magician... 81 ticks
Hybrid Melee: Ranger, Bard, Paladin, Shadow Knight... 68.5 ticks
Healers: Druid, Cleric... 87.5 ticks
Monk: 76.5 ticks
Rogue: 93.5 ticks
Warrior: 94.5 ticks
Iksar (~17% xp penalty)
Int-Casters: Necromancer... 67.5 ticks
Hybrid Melee: Shadow Knight... 56.9 ticks
Healer: Shaman... 72.5 ticks
Beastlord: 72.5 ticks
Monk: 63.5 ticks
Warrior: 80.5 ticks
The test method involved the same as described in the thread referenced by JJot7S. Create a character, enter tutorial, advance to the point of killing the kobold. Kill the kobold. Observe total xp gain. 25 ticks = 1 gold bubble. 1 tick = 1/125th level or 0.008% level.
It's easier to use the lowest-earning xp class as the base for the next comparison, to show how much faster each other class gains xp, above the base class(es). So, Hybrid Melee is considered base xp gain, while all other classes earn a higher percentage. Rounded to the nearest tenth of a percent.
Classes earning XP faster than Hybrid Melee
Int-Casters: +18.2%
Healers: +27.7%
Monk: +11.7%
Rogue: +36.5%
Warrior: +38.0%
Then modify according to racial bonus or penalty if applicable. In regards to the Iksar XP penalty, it is easier to think of it as Iksars gaining 83.065% xp to Humans (or classes w/o xp penalties). Remember that Human xp is not a bonus over Iksar xp (which would more closely match 20%), but rather, Iksar xp is a penalty under Human xp... so, the math is slightly different. Said another way, Iksars have, roughly, a 17% xp penalty compared to races without xp penalties.
Later, I may edit this post to reflect Shaman and Beastlord XP, using Froglok as the control for racial modifiers.
Edit 1: I'm using the default user interface. When I mention x.5 ticks, it really means, I'm sure it is above x, but below x+1. Sometimes, it appeared to be > x.5 or < x.5, but for simplicity, I kept the observed tick at x.5.
Edit 2: Added data "ticks" of the classes available to Iksars.
Edit 3: minor clarifications
Edit 4: -->
5 level range bonus aside for the moment. 62 Iksar Shaman earns 7.4% more xp than the 67 Iksar Necromancer. 66 DE Mage earns 11.7% more xp than the 62 Iksar Shaman. 66 DE Mage earns 20% more xp than the 67 Iksar Necromancer.
If the Mage was earning leadership xp (-20% xp) then both the Necromancer and Mage would appear to have earned, approximately, the same amount of AAXP, while the 62 Iksar Shaman would have earned 7.4% + 5 Level Range Bonus more than the Necromancer and Mage.
Edit 5: Therefore, it would seem that the 5 Level Range Bonus is somewhere between +10% and +12.6% (I'm more likely to believe 10%, because it's a simple, non-complicated, bonus).
Edited, Tue Aug 16 18:15:50 2005 by tchzarmok
Edited, Tue Aug 16 18:20:53 2005 by tchzarmok
Edited, Tue Aug 16 18:23:42 2005 by tchzarmok
Edited, Tue Aug 16 18:36:08 2005 by tchzarmok
Edited, Tue Aug 16 18:40:54 2005 by tchzarmok
Through independent testing, I can verify that Iksars have an approximate 20% (closer to 17%) xp penalty modifier when compared with Humans and Dark Elves. Humans were used as the control, to verify DE's were earning the same xp.
What's interesting is the class xp distribution.
"SOE" wrote:
2. Class-based penalties are not appropriate. Classes are roughly equivalent in power throughout the level ranges, and the versatility does not make up for that penalty. In fact, the majority of changes made to classes in the name of balance in the last year were based on the assumption that, at the high end, each class should still be roughly as needed and balanced as any other.
Not sure when SOE declared this, but I found it quoted from a post marked January 2005, in the thread linked by JJot7S. As of today, class archetypes gain xp at varying speeds, but individual classes within the broader archetype, gain xp at the same speed. There are some exceptions, as noted below.
Classes without Racial XP Penalty
Int-Casters: Wizard, Enchanter, Necromancer, Magician... 81 ticks
Hybrid Melee: Ranger, Bard, Paladin, Shadow Knight... 68.5 ticks
Healers: Druid, Cleric... 87.5 ticks
Monk: 76.5 ticks
Rogue: 93.5 ticks
Warrior: 94.5 ticks
Iksar (~17% xp penalty)
Int-Casters: Necromancer... 67.5 ticks
Hybrid Melee: Shadow Knight... 56.9 ticks
Healer: Shaman... 72.5 ticks
Beastlord: 72.5 ticks
Monk: 63.5 ticks
Warrior: 80.5 ticks
The test method involved the same as described in the thread referenced by JJot7S. Create a character, enter tutorial, advance to the point of killing the kobold. Kill the kobold. Observe total xp gain. 25 ticks = 1 gold bubble. 1 tick = 1/125th level or 0.008% level.
It's easier to use the lowest-earning xp class as the base for the next comparison, to show how much faster each other class gains xp, above the base class(es). So, Hybrid Melee is considered base xp gain, while all other classes earn a higher percentage. Rounded to the nearest tenth of a percent.
Classes earning XP faster than Hybrid Melee
Int-Casters: +18.2%
Healers: +27.7%
Monk: +11.7%
Rogue: +36.5%
Warrior: +38.0%
Then modify according to racial bonus or penalty if applicable. In regards to the Iksar XP penalty, it is easier to think of it as Iksars gaining 83.065% xp to Humans (or classes w/o xp penalties). Remember that Human xp is not a bonus over Iksar xp (which would more closely match 20%), but rather, Iksar xp is a penalty under Human xp... so, the math is slightly different. Said another way, Iksars have, roughly, a 17% xp penalty compared to races without xp penalties.
Later, I may edit this post to reflect Shaman and Beastlord XP, using Froglok as the control for racial modifiers.
Edit 1: I'm using the default user interface. When I mention x.5 ticks, it really means, I'm sure it is above x, but below x+1. Sometimes, it appeared to be > x.5 or < x.5, but for simplicity, I kept the observed tick at x.5.
Edit 2: Added data "ticks" of the classes available to Iksars.
Edit 3: minor clarifications
Edit 4: -->
Quote:
67 Necro is an Iksar, 66 Mage is a DE, 62 Shaman is an Iksar
5 level range bonus aside for the moment. 62 Iksar Shaman earns 7.4% more xp than the 67 Iksar Necromancer. 66 DE Mage earns 11.7% more xp than the 62 Iksar Shaman. 66 DE Mage earns 20% more xp than the 67 Iksar Necromancer.
If the Mage was earning leadership xp (-20% xp) then both the Necromancer and Mage would appear to have earned, approximately, the same amount of AAXP, while the 62 Iksar Shaman would have earned 7.4% + 5 Level Range Bonus more than the Necromancer and Mage.
Edit 5: Therefore, it would seem that the 5 Level Range Bonus is somewhere between +10% and +12.6% (I'm more likely to believe 10%, because it's a simple, non-complicated, bonus).
Edited, Tue Aug 16 18:15:50 2005 by tchzarmok
Edited, Tue Aug 16 18:20:53 2005 by tchzarmok
Edited, Tue Aug 16 18:23:42 2005 by tchzarmok
Edited, Tue Aug 16 18:36:08 2005 by tchzarmok
Edited, Tue Aug 16 18:40:54 2005 by tchzarmok
damnit this thread got out of hand real f'ing quick. Ill bet all my plat on all my tooms that the op is more confused tnow then when he posted.
OK one other thing. As far as I know racial xp modifiers DO NOT affect aa xp. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
SBS's post probably hit the nail on the head and in the easiest to understand way.
OK one other thing. As far as I know racial xp modifiers DO NOT affect aa xp. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
SBS's post probably hit the nail on the head and in the easiest to understand way.
double post
Edited, Wed Aug 17 04:08:04 2005 by tchzarmok
Edited, Wed Aug 17 04:08:04 2005 by tchzarmok
"tchzarmok" wrote:
I couldn't resist the temptation to do some testing on my own.
Through independent testing, I can verify...
Edit 1: I'm using the default user interface. When I mention x.5 ticks, it really means, I'm sure it is above x, but below x+1.
Through independent testing, I can verify...
Edit 1: I'm using the default user interface. When I mention x.5 ticks, it really means, I'm sure it is above x, but below x+1.
"pfunkman" wrote:
your info is extremely outdated notice no beastlor or berserker. i dont know where you got this from but its obviously from before the luclin expansion.
Tell me why I need to have metrics on Beastlords or Berserkers? The OP has a Iksar Shaman, Iksar Necromancer, Dark Elf Magician. The fact I was planning on adding info about Shamans and Beastlords later on, was because I had a curiosity. The Iksar Shaman and Iksar Beastlord earn xp at the same rate, but how does a Froglok Shaman and (Iksar, Ogre, Troll, Barbarian) Shaman compare? Since, Froglok is the only race without an xp penalty, that Shamans can be played.
Quote:
Later, I may edit this post to reflect Shaman and Beastlord XP, using Froglok as the control for racial modifiers.
WTB pfunkman lessons in reading comprehension.
Edited, Wed Aug 17 04:20:29 2005 by tchzarmok
Edited, Wed Aug 17 04:22:05 2005 by tchzarmok
Quote:
damnit this thread got out of hand real f'ing quick. Ill bet all my plat on all my tooms that the op is more confused tnow then when he posted
Your Right.
No leadership was being used Only thing I can attribute this to is the additional bonus for White and Yellow mobs 1 out of 12 are blue and probably 1 maybe 2 out of 12 are yellow to the 62 Ikie Shaman.
Side Note what are you useing to get or display the exp Ticks?
Edited, Wed Aug 17 08:12:03 2005 by Krackum
"Krackum" wrote:
what are you useing to get or display the exp Ticks?
"tchzarmok" wrote:
I'm using the default user interface. Create a character, enter tutorial, advance to the point of killing the kobold. Kill the kobold. Observe total xp gain. 25 ticks = 1 gold bubble. 1 tick = 1/125th level or 0.008% level.
Quote:
The test method involved the same as described in the thread referenced by JJot7S. Create a character, enter tutorial, advance to the point of killing the kobold. Kill the kobold. Observe total xp gain. 25 ticks = 1 gold bubble. 1 tick = 1/125th level or 0.008% level.
In fact, the old penalty was in the neighborhood of 20%. 68.5 +20% = 81.6 or right in range with casters.
So while the Tutorial method is nice for comparing across races, it gets dorked up when you try to compare between classes.
Edited, Wed Aug 17 12:40:50 2005 by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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