In my experience wipes seem to occur because of:
70% Tank/Healer/DPS combination too weak - either the tank can't take the damage or the healer can't heal fast enough to survive long enough for the groups dps to take the mob out, usually it only takes one of them to make a great group.
20% Bad pulls - puller pulls too many and instead of eating his/her mistake brings it back to group or notices it too late.
10% True IdJet in the group - IdJet (definition) an individual who gets really stupid really fast.
I view dying as part of the game and it usually makes me want to get back in there take revenge. However, the current trend seems to be, if you wipe bail on the group. This is particularly egregious when the toon bailing is the cleric.
Having played a Pally as my main until OoW came out who's nickname amongst my usual weekend group was Mr. Agro, I can attest that a properly played knight will hold agro no matter what even if there are several IdJets in your group who are deliberately trying to grab agro. Once I saw several Wars pulling back mobs before they got to their intended cloth caster (just like my Pally) I realized it was time to look for a new career.
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I love when just after the invite, I get a tell from [insertrandomranger] saying, "Hey, just a warning, I pull alot of aggro."
Yes. I know you pull a lot of aggro. I can keep aggro off you, pretty much regardless of what you do, as long as I'm expecting it.
However, once my mana is gone, I have *nothing* at my disposal but Taunt and a near useless Disarm key. Know your tank. If I, as a paladin, call out "lom," then someone is pulling too much aggro. Stuns don't take much in the way of mana, but if the pulls are constant, or even worse, if I'm the one pulling, eventually I'll run out of mana. This happens even faster, if you're nuking the crap out of something, with no concern for aggro management.
If I call out oom, Don't pull. If you pull, knowing I'm oom, you deserve to bite it.
Also, for casters that do manage to pull aggro from me, if you're going to run, at least do so in a circle around me. I have to be standing still to cast root. I have to be still to stun. If you pull the mob out of range of my spells, odds are you'll grab adds, and die - possibly creating a wipe while you're at it.
Regardless, I look at most wipes as a learning experience. If the guilty party learned their lesson, and appologized, then I don't hold grudges. (Hell, I've had to appologize a few times for bad pulls in PoJ.)
Yes. I know you pull a lot of aggro. I can keep aggro off you, pretty much regardless of what you do, as long as I'm expecting it.
However, once my mana is gone, I have *nothing* at my disposal but Taunt and a near useless Disarm key. Know your tank. If I, as a paladin, call out "lom," then someone is pulling too much aggro. Stuns don't take much in the way of mana, but if the pulls are constant, or even worse, if I'm the one pulling, eventually I'll run out of mana. This happens even faster, if you're nuking the crap out of something, with no concern for aggro management.
If I call out oom, Don't pull. If you pull, knowing I'm oom, you deserve to bite it.
Also, for casters that do manage to pull aggro from me, if you're going to run, at least do so in a circle around me. I have to be standing still to cast root. I have to be still to stun. If you pull the mob out of range of my spells, odds are you'll grab adds, and die - possibly creating a wipe while you're at it.
Regardless, I look at most wipes as a learning experience. If the guilty party learned their lesson, and appologized, then I don't hold grudges. (Hell, I've had to appologize a few times for bad pulls in PoJ.)
Maurna <The Dark Arrow Legion>
41 Warlock <Undead> - Twisting Nether
-~-~-~-~-~-
Baron Bellam Dreamguard of Brell Serilis (Cazic Thule) <Retired>
-~-~-~-~-~-
"I will not be stamped, filed, numbered, briefed, or debriefed. I am a man, not a number!"
41 Warlock <Undead> - Twisting Nether
-~-~-~-~-~-
Baron Bellam Dreamguard of Brell Serilis (Cazic Thule) <Retired>
-~-~-~-~-~-
"I will not be stamped, filed, numbered, briefed, or debriefed. I am a man, not a number!"
AE taunt works just fine... Grabs the whole group of mobs...
Furious is a disc that makes it so for 30 seconds the warrior repostes every incoming attack from the front. This means that as a warrior I can hold agro of an army of mobs without taking a single point of damage for 30 seconds. By that time the group CC should have them all locked down, or if not I can go defensive (if the mobs would do enough dps to warrent it).
As to keeping agro, warriors get the short end of the stick off the bat. We cannot keep agro with crap for gear like the other tank classes can, BUT if you get some decent weapons (I use Blade of Carnage auged with an anger III aug, and a bonechiller auged with an anger II aug. Those, combined with taunt and agro discs, keep agro just fine. I get compliments all the time on how well I keep agro...
The problem with this stratagy is that those anger augs took TONS of Everfrost LDoNs to get, during which I couldn't keep agro for my life (the 50's were hell for me). The only time that I don't keep agro is when somebody is being a dumbass, and yes... casters are doing their debuffing/slowing on inc. Add to that, the fact that I mitigate damage better then pallys and SK's, and thats why my 'lil hobbit warrior is a helluva tank (mind you the getting stunned from the front part loses me agro for a sec every once in a while, but AA's will fix that...)
Thats my take on it anyway...
Furious is a disc that makes it so for 30 seconds the warrior repostes every incoming attack from the front. This means that as a warrior I can hold agro of an army of mobs without taking a single point of damage for 30 seconds. By that time the group CC should have them all locked down, or if not I can go defensive (if the mobs would do enough dps to warrent it).
As to keeping agro, warriors get the short end of the stick off the bat. We cannot keep agro with crap for gear like the other tank classes can, BUT if you get some decent weapons (I use Blade of Carnage auged with an anger III aug, and a bonechiller auged with an anger II aug. Those, combined with taunt and agro discs, keep agro just fine. I get compliments all the time on how well I keep agro...
The problem with this stratagy is that those anger augs took TONS of Everfrost LDoNs to get, during which I couldn't keep agro for my life (the 50's were hell for me). The only time that I don't keep agro is when somebody is being a dumbass, and yes... casters are doing their debuffing/slowing on inc. Add to that, the fact that I mitigate damage better then pallys and SK's, and thats why my 'lil hobbit warrior is a helluva tank (mind you the getting stunned from the front part loses me agro for a sec every once in a while, but AA's will fix that...)
Thats my take on it anyway...
You've really got to get out more...
I play a cleric. Every time I heal I get a butt load of agro, unless it's a heal over time(Heal = Agro). When the MT is getting his **** kicked and I'm chain CH'ing you better believe the agro is gona switch to me. A good tank does a couple hundred points damage a sec. I do 4700 + improved healing = bout 5100 hp heal instantly - they forget about the tank and come running for me.
In difficult camps (yellows and reds), the only way to keep from getting beat down is to wait untill the mob is really beat up and agro'ed good by the MT for a CH. If I have to CH early in the fight I better hope I have SOW on or it's dead cleric, camp wipe, omw to rez camp.
Edited, Wed Jul 6 19:37:15 2005 by aBarberian
I play a cleric. Every time I heal I get a butt load of agro, unless it's a heal over time(Heal = Agro). When the MT is getting his **** kicked and I'm chain CH'ing you better believe the agro is gona switch to me. A good tank does a couple hundred points damage a sec. I do 4700 + improved healing = bout 5100 hp heal instantly - they forget about the tank and come running for me.
In difficult camps (yellows and reds), the only way to keep from getting beat down is to wait untill the mob is really beat up and agro'ed good by the MT for a CH. If I have to CH early in the fight I better hope I have SOW on or it's dead cleric, camp wipe, omw to rez camp.
Edited, Wed Jul 6 19:37:15 2005 by aBarberian
Running isn't a very good way to let the tank get agro back =/
I have this problem with getting bored and being able to hide/sneak.... well TRAPS SUCK when I dont know about them... Or there is the famous " EVERYONE ZONE I AM INC WITH A TRAIN!@" and they go "huh?" and heal me then die to 20 mobs and complain later cause I didnt die!
Quote:
AE taunt works just fine... Grabs the whole group of mobs...
Furious is a disc that makes it so for 30 seconds the warrior repostes every incoming attack from the front. This means that as a warrior I can hold agro of an army of mobs without taking a single point of damage for 30 seconds. By that time the group CC should have them all locked down, or if not I can go defensive (if the mobs would do enough dps to warrent it).
Furious is a disc that makes it so for 30 seconds the warrior repostes every incoming attack from the front. This means that as a warrior I can hold agro of an army of mobs without taking a single point of damage for 30 seconds. By that time the group CC should have them all locked down, or if not I can go defensive (if the mobs would do enough dps to warrent it).
AE taunt only puts you at the top of the hate list - it doesn't necessarily give you enough hate to hold aggro vs. a fast heal for example.
Furious only lasts 2 ticks = 12 seconds I believe?
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Add to that, the fact that I mitigate damage better then pallys and SK's, and thats why my 'lil hobbit warrior is a helluva tank
Note: mitigate damage better than an equally geared Pal / SK. The balance point is that with a Pal / SK its possible to debuff the mob earlier.
Quote:
Every time I heal I get a butt load of agro, unless it's a heal over time(Heal = Agro). When the MT is getting his **** kicked and I'm chain CH'ing you better believe the agro is gona switch to me
In a camp where you're having to chain heals, your tank should realistically be able to keep aggro over heals.
As a necro, my groups don't wipe. I have saved many a group from imminent destruction. Just last night in a hard LDoN we got a bad pull, 5 mobs...2 tanks and our chanter died but me, cleric and another tank made it. After having dotted the last mobs I was OOM and twitching the OOM cleric every tick I could until the last mob died.
The night before in another adventure we had a mob running wild, killed 2 people including the tank until I snared and kited it away. It's harder for me to save groups since my mez doesn't work so well anymore (I'm 56 and mobs are half even cons in hard advs).
The night before in another adventure we had a mob running wild, killed 2 people including the tank until I snared and kited it away. It's harder for me to save groups since my mez doesn't work so well anymore (I'm 56 and mobs are half even cons in hard advs).
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
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wizzards and such with nice hard hitting dam spells use them to aid tanks.. or when mob becomes low enough to finish mob off.
The key is "to finish the mob"
Last night I was in a LDoN, Oasis of Marr Quicksand. No one in the group really knew each other I suggested we do body count. Alas I was out vote by 1 the cleric leader, to do boss. The second mob we pick up three adds all con blue to my 20 Pal I am temped. should be able to handel so long as me and the Ranger keep argo. The Chanter panics and trys rooting as soon as they come through the door that gives him argo (root had no effect) he starts nuking the ranger and I pull argo then he nuks again we pull argo he nukes again. Mean time Cleric moves to area near door the mob just came through. (trying to get away from mele.) she heals the CHA. poof three more adds from the next room. cleric is running back and forth nuking Enc is dead, The Ranger Rogue Shaman and I almost in unison exclaim "were fu*k#d" 10 mins later as we are licking our wounds after 10% REZ I say we need to have a talk. The rest of the night went better. but we ran out of time. We died as a group one more time That was probobly due to me Taunting to close to an unexplored door pulling 5 adds that con white and yellow "oops" at that the adventure was over The Cleric was moaning about loosing her ding with only 10%rez I am bound to PoK so I beg for 90+ rez and a wonderful lady ("Darlinwif" on the Nameless)comes to our rescue
by the time we get there Cha has looted his corps and give up all xp the clearic never Thanks me for bringing my friend. and everyone else lives happily ever after :)
Keep Kicking, Bellowing YES!
Keep hitting that tempting little taunt button? NO
ROLL again, maybe a monk or something.
Everytime you hit that taunt button you reroll your agro, if your at the top, do ya wanna give it away?
Warriors who grew up learning to mash taunt all the time, are what make warriors look like bad agro managers.
C'mon you have more agro disc at lvl 66, I know I do/did for my warrior.
Mob incoming to camp, attack on<going for a proc>, taunt, incite, bellow. Nuff said.
Mob mezzed, and breaking it. taunt, incite, bellow, <if taunt did not land let it refresh, taunt again>, Attack. Live chanter loves you.
Keep hitting that tempting little taunt button? NO
ROLL again, maybe a monk or something.
Everytime you hit that taunt button you reroll your agro, if your at the top, do ya wanna give it away?
Warriors who grew up learning to mash taunt all the time, are what make warriors look like bad agro managers.
C'mon you have more agro disc at lvl 66, I know I do/did for my warrior.
Mob incoming to camp, attack on<going for a proc>, taunt, incite, bellow. Nuff said.
Mob mezzed, and breaking it. taunt, incite, bellow, <if taunt did not land let it refresh, taunt again>, Attack. Live chanter loves you.
APPLAUS
Scholar
24 posts
LDoN noobs that have no idea about not using AoE spells near chests/boxes etc are usually what wipes parties i have been in.
Best Wipe was first time to Com somehow got to where black reavers are had enough time to go " what's that " before darkness and wipe . fun tho i just hate losing all the buffs after all dying is part of the GAME , and some peeps seem to forget that minor detail.
Best Wipe was first time to Com somehow got to where black reavers are had enough time to go " what's that " before darkness and wipe . fun tho i just hate losing all the buffs after all dying is part of the GAME , and some peeps seem to forget that minor detail.
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Everytime you hit that taunt button you reroll your agro, if your at the top, do ya wanna give it away?
You had a 66 Warrior, and still believed this?? You've got to be kidding. Think about what you just said... If this misconception were true, I would ping-pong aggro between the casters in every fight, because my taunt/kick are tied to an auto-fire key. That most certainly doesn't happen with me, or with the 10 skazillion other warriors that do the same thing.
It's probably a little late for you now, but if anyone else wants to actually learn a bit about aggro, there's a pretty good thread here:
http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showthread.php?postid=32130#post32130
LMAO, I knew I would get one of you auto taunt mashers attention.
What server are you on? Whats your tanks name?
You so tooo much funny.
Read other forums there in Steel Warrior since you referred to that site, and you will find the information I put out is correct.
Once my warrior locks in agro, hitting taunt once, yes once, and not again until basically an act of god comes down and takes agro, he keeps it.
Yes, thats hitting the taunt button once. incite/bellow when they refresh. Kick? quite often, especially on casters.
Before ya flame take your prozac.
What server are you on? Whats your tanks name?
You so tooo much funny.
Read other forums there in Steel Warrior since you referred to that site, and you will find the information I put out is correct.
Once my warrior locks in agro, hitting taunt once, yes once, and not again until basically an act of god comes down and takes agro, he keeps it.
Yes, thats hitting the taunt button once. incite/bellow when they refresh. Kick? quite often, especially on casters.
Before ya flame take your prozac.
bbot wrote:
When our group gets wiped, it's probably because of one of the following four reasons:
a) the necro gets aggro and starts running in circles
b) the cleric gets aggro and starts running in circles
c) the beastlord (me) assists the warrior, and the warrior switches targets
d) too many adds to handle
and finally
e) it's all my fault
a) the necro gets aggro and starts running in circles
b) the cleric gets aggro and starts running in circles
c) the beastlord (me) assists the warrior, and the warrior switches targets
d) too many adds to handle
and finally
e) it's all my fault
If a necro gets aggro and starts running around, he thinks you're taking too long and wants you to pull another while he kites.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Can't Necros Feign Death to lose aggro? (My monk does) Or is that too simplistic?
I blame myself! A good number of my deaths come from me saying "Yeah, it's red but I bet if we get it slowed we could take it...." or words to that effect 
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Or my favorite line (from my mouth IIRC)...
"Why don't we just bust in there and take them all on..."
"Why don't we just bust in there and take them all on..."
Dang polls! I either want to vote on many or none of the choices.
I've caused wipes, I saved us from wipes, play the game a bit and it all happens sooner or later.
Group wipes are not a big deal anymore with the summoning alter.
Edited to agree with Joph
.....was nice seeing you in EQland last night even if it was a brief moment on the trader.
Edited, Fri Jul 8 11:43:31 2005 by Elinda
I've caused wipes, I saved us from wipes, play the game a bit and it all happens sooner or later.
Group wipes are not a big deal anymore with the summoning alter.
Edited to agree with Joph
.....was nice seeing you in EQland last night even if it was a brief moment on the trader. Edited, Fri Jul 8 11:43:31 2005 by Elinda
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
Quote:
LMAO, I knew I would get one of you auto taunt mashers attention.
What server are you on? Whats your tanks name?
You so tooo much funny.
Read other forums there in Steel Warrior since you referred to that site, and you will find the information I put out is correct.
Once my warrior locks in agro, hitting taunt once, yes once, and not again until basically an act of god comes down and takes agro, he keeps it.
Yes, thats hitting the taunt button once. incite/bellow when they refresh. Kick? quite often, especially on casters.
Before ya flame take your prozac.
What server are you on? Whats your tanks name?
You so tooo much funny.
Read other forums there in Steel Warrior since you referred to that site, and you will find the information I put out is correct.
Once my warrior locks in agro, hitting taunt once, yes once, and not again until basically an act of god comes down and takes agro, he keeps it.
Yes, thats hitting the taunt button once. incite/bellow when they refresh. Kick? quite often, especially on casters.
Before ya flame take your prozac.
Re-read your original post, f#@ktard. You inferred that hitting taunt repeatedly takes you back down to just to the top of the hate list. It doesn't. There's absolutely no drawback to taunt-mashing.
I already regret trying to correct such an ignorant post.
Edited, Fri Jul 8 13:04:43 2005 by Gladestrider
Drawback to taunt-mashing:
1. I hit Taunt and get aggro
2. Taunt refreshes and, needing the finger exercise, I hit it again despite already being at the top of the aggro list. Adds +1 Hate
3. Cleric/Wizard/Rogue/Whoever draws aggro
4. I can't taunt off the guy with aggro for twenty-odd seconds because I just hit Taunt three seconds ago for no good reason.
1. I hit Taunt and get aggro
2. Taunt refreshes and, needing the finger exercise, I hit it again despite already being at the top of the aggro list. Adds +1 Hate
3. Cleric/Wizard/Rogue/Whoever draws aggro
4. I can't taunt off the guy with aggro for twenty-odd seconds because I just hit Taunt three seconds ago for no good reason.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Fine, strategically it's probably best to save taunt for those rare occurences where you need it and it's not up. You're missing my point however, which is that taunt doesn't reduce hate back down to square one Ever. Under any circumstances.
Edited, Fri Jul 8 13:41:31 2005 by Gladestrider
Edited, Fri Jul 8 13:41:31 2005 by Gladestrider
I didn't miss your point, I was ignoring it and spending my time disproving this statement you made as fact: There's absolutely no drawback to taunt-mashing..
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
7 posts
ok im a warrior ( a very good one at that) and i know alot about aggro. the thing is that when i get alot of aggro ( like the wizards wont get there ***** handed to em because of some nuke) either a couple of these things happen ( and have happend)
1. the clr decides to go afk right in the middle of a fight
2. some gimp pulls a train to our camp, taking me and the group out
or
3. a pull just fails and someone gets the aggro
1. the clr decides to go afk right in the middle of a fight
2. some gimp pulls a train to our camp, taking me and the group out
or
3. a pull just fails and someone gets the aggro
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