For a long time of playing this game, I have always wanted to start questing for my equipment. The problem is that the only quests I can complete, are for gear that is far inferior to what I already currently own. All the quests seem to involve Raid Mobs, or 60+ mobs even though they list it as a level 50 quest.
In my opinion, I think there should be more quests that can be done, to get good No drop equipment, for a person at their current skill level. The bottom line is I would rather spend 20 hours completing a quest to get a nice item, instead of farming for 10 hours to buy that same nice piece, even if it was no drop.
Most quests I find are simply impossible for me to do without having 1 or 2 groups of 60+ toons. So I would like to see SOE add more 40-50 level quests that could actually be done by 1-2-3 level 40-50's, and would compete with the higher end crafted stuff found in the bazaar.
I wouldn't even mind if the quest were very long and dificult, simply that they be possible for the intended level range. The key to this is to make all of the gear that would fall under this category No Drop, so that it would not further ***** up the economy and accelerate the arms race. I would like to see a person left with the option of farming/puchasing or questing.
Presently questing is not an option for many, due to lack of access to a large group of high end toons.
Anyone have any comments, or other ideas how this problem could be overcome, or do you think it is too far down the road to start messing with this sort of thing.
Edit: Because I took Engineering English, nuff said!
Edited, Sat Jun 26 15:09:10 2004 by Reinman
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How would you fix quests.Follow
I think the problem starts much lower than 40-50 and as such the way too fix the current system is to put in secong and third tier Newbie armour quests.
The Newbie armours are great, not over powered but powerful enough so that often the first advice to a new player is 'Get your Newbie armour'.
So have a second tier to that, throw in 3 more AC per piece, +2 more to primary stats and +1 to secondary and +5 to a save, so that if you have the full set you have at level 25: +50 to primary stats +20 to secondary stats and +10 to all saves.
You can also solve the hotspot question of making people explore by making the drops uncommon but reasonable and generic for all classes/races so that people have to go to 5 different zones to collect the peices for the armour
level 20-30 Armour requires drops from
Splitpaw
Befallen level 2
Mistmore
Najena
PC
Suddenly that gives people the reason to travel again to pick up pieces they need.
Also if you make the items linked to the Trivial loot system than it would stop people using higher level alts to farm the pieces.
Throw in a variable of maybe 2 items in a zone like West Commons which are soloable and you have a varied style quest with a reasonable reward.
It is then easy to work from that to a third level and link it into the Velious armour for the 50+ crowd.
I would even go as far as to link in some quests for the slots that are not covered by newbie armour and make it into a real cultural set of armour.
just my
Edited, Sat Jun 26 18:17:27 2004 by tarv
The Newbie armours are great, not over powered but powerful enough so that often the first advice to a new player is 'Get your Newbie armour'.
So have a second tier to that, throw in 3 more AC per piece, +2 more to primary stats and +1 to secondary and +5 to a save, so that if you have the full set you have at level 25: +50 to primary stats +20 to secondary stats and +10 to all saves.
You can also solve the hotspot question of making people explore by making the drops uncommon but reasonable and generic for all classes/races so that people have to go to 5 different zones to collect the peices for the armour
level 20-30 Armour requires drops from
Splitpaw
Befallen level 2
Mistmore
Najena
PC
Suddenly that gives people the reason to travel again to pick up pieces they need.
Also if you make the items linked to the Trivial loot system than it would stop people using higher level alts to farm the pieces.
Throw in a variable of maybe 2 items in a zone like West Commons which are soloable and you have a varied style quest with a reasonable reward.
It is then easy to work from that to a third level and link it into the Velious armour for the 50+ crowd.
I would even go as far as to link in some quests for the slots that are not covered by newbie armour and make it into a real cultural set of armour.
just my
Edited, Sat Jun 26 18:17:27 2004 by tarv
/agree You are right, the problem does start much lower. I also agree to make drops in all sorts of zones. Exploring is one of the best parts of this game, it's so scary.
Many of the newish people to the game, including myself, just take the fast track, best XP for the level. With level related quests taking you all over the place, you might find that many of the totally unused zones would become populated again, as people try to get components for their quests. I prefer the idea of No Drop Item quests myself, as opposed to having the trivial loot system.
Anyway, I think most people would probably prefer to quest instead of farm, but the rewards need to be inline with the effort.
I would prefer to see the quality of an item be based on the amount of work, and difficulty, rather than level only. I would be in favor of even putting caps on quests, thus keeping the difficulty up, ie you can't trigger quest if you are too high. No drop is definatley most important to assure that everything is being accomplished by the person who wants the end reward.
Do others feel the same way?
Many of the newish people to the game, including myself, just take the fast track, best XP for the level. With level related quests taking you all over the place, you might find that many of the totally unused zones would become populated again, as people try to get components for their quests. I prefer the idea of No Drop Item quests myself, as opposed to having the trivial loot system.
Anyway, I think most people would probably prefer to quest instead of farm, but the rewards need to be inline with the effort.
I would prefer to see the quality of an item be based on the amount of work, and difficulty, rather than level only. I would be in favor of even putting caps on quests, thus keeping the difficulty up, ie you can't trigger quest if you are too high. No drop is definatley most important to assure that everything is being accomplished by the person who wants the end reward.
Do others feel the same way?
4 posts
Agreed...
I recently did the Broken Shore necklace quest in Natimbi, which required some killing and some foraging. It took about a week for me (as a casual player), and was a nice upgrade to my Neck piece.
That and the Eyepatch of Plunder were quests that resulted in no-drop gear that I still wear (at 54), that I was able to do solo. Wish they had a few more like that for weapons, etc.
Kolzar
Karana Ranger of 54 Seasons
Innoruuk
I recently did the Broken Shore necklace quest in Natimbi, which required some killing and some foraging. It took about a week for me (as a casual player), and was a nice upgrade to my Neck piece.
That and the Eyepatch of Plunder were quests that resulted in no-drop gear that I still wear (at 54), that I was able to do solo. Wish they had a few more like that for weapons, etc.
Kolzar
Karana Ranger of 54 Seasons
Innoruuk
I most certainly agree that the 2nd Tier of quests are seriously out of wack with what players are capable of buying in the bazaar. I do like the idea of questing armor, wpns and spells. However, it seems that once you get to a certain level, you need a raid size force to take the mob out and then hope that you are lucky enough to get something. Either that or the mobs that drop what you are looking for are in zones that no one wants to go to.
And I admit it I have been to only a couple of zone in Luclin.
And I admit it I have been to only a couple of zone in Luclin.
Voelfgar Fireforge
105 Beserker
Mangler
105 Beserker
Mangler
I see I am still getting my karma nuked. Imagine rating me down on the feel good post of the year.
4 posts
This is a great idea.
Im currently a level 30 druid and am still wearing my leafrunner armor.
The reason for this is I refuse to just farm for pp and buy better stuff from the bazzar. Unfortunately Ive looked and looked and am having a hard time finding quests for my level that is an improvement over what Im using.
The quest system is really kind of borked here. There are no clues on where to find relevant quests, and you never know if ones you do find are too hard or not so you end up using sites like this to farm for information.
Some of the most fun Ive had in this game is finding stuff for my newb armor and a couple of other items I use that I got through questing.
Im currently a level 30 druid and am still wearing my leafrunner armor.
The reason for this is I refuse to just farm for pp and buy better stuff from the bazzar. Unfortunately Ive looked and looked and am having a hard time finding quests for my level that is an improvement over what Im using.
The quest system is really kind of borked here. There are no clues on where to find relevant quests, and you never know if ones you do find are too hard or not so you end up using sites like this to farm for information.
Some of the most fun Ive had in this game is finding stuff for my newb armor and a couple of other items I use that I got through questing.
Take the Sol Ro armor and do two things:
(a) Increase/change the stats so they're relevant to the character. No more +INT Totemic gear. Likewise, AC probably needs a slight boost. No sense in doing a Lambent Breastplate for the same AC as a 20pp Netherbian Chitin. Hell, even give the major pieces a minor clicky to further set them apart from Bazaar-wear. A warrior breastplate with a 3pt DS clicky or cleric legs with a clicky 10pt heal. People like getting fun and unique stuff beyond just better stats.
(b) Remove the gem/precious metals requirements. Replace them with an extra drop in another zone. No one is going to spend 300pp on platinum bars for a Chestplate of the Constant. Certainly not with its current stats.
Doing both of those would quickly make a viable step up from the newbie quest armors. Well, minus the fact that there's no INT caster/BST/BER/MNK Sol Ro armors.
Then take the Twilight Sea armors and give them stats somewhere between Sol Ro and Thurgardin quest stuff. Increase the drop rates or spawn rates -- whatever it takes to make them viable. No one does them because they're even more of a pain in the *** than Sol Ro armors (if it can be believed) and have practically the same stats/AC. I imagine the melee plate breastplate progression going something like AC:12, AC:25, AC:35, AC:45. Given that you can buy stuff like the Architect BP in the Bazaar for under 10k, I don't think AC:25 and 35 are unreasonable progression points.
Make the drops for all of it No Drop and require a combine. No MQing these.
Edited, Sun Jun 27 00:36:16 2004 by Jophiel
(a) Increase/change the stats so they're relevant to the character. No more +INT Totemic gear. Likewise, AC probably needs a slight boost. No sense in doing a Lambent Breastplate for the same AC as a 20pp Netherbian Chitin. Hell, even give the major pieces a minor clicky to further set them apart from Bazaar-wear. A warrior breastplate with a 3pt DS clicky or cleric legs with a clicky 10pt heal. People like getting fun and unique stuff beyond just better stats.
(b) Remove the gem/precious metals requirements. Replace them with an extra drop in another zone. No one is going to spend 300pp on platinum bars for a Chestplate of the Constant. Certainly not with its current stats.
Doing both of those would quickly make a viable step up from the newbie quest armors. Well, minus the fact that there's no INT caster/BST/BER/MNK Sol Ro armors.
Then take the Twilight Sea armors and give them stats somewhere between Sol Ro and Thurgardin quest stuff. Increase the drop rates or spawn rates -- whatever it takes to make them viable. No one does them because they're even more of a pain in the *** than Sol Ro armors (if it can be believed) and have practically the same stats/AC. I imagine the melee plate breastplate progression going something like AC:12, AC:25, AC:35, AC:45. Given that you can buy stuff like the Architect BP in the Bazaar for under 10k, I don't think AC:25 and 35 are unreasonable progression points.
Make the drops for all of it No Drop and require a combine. No MQing these.
Edited, Sun Jun 27 00:36:16 2004 by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Bear in mind that they purposely don't want too much content to be soloable since their objective is encouraging grouping. However it would be good if those intermediate armour quests existed. Twiglet armour quests all seemed to feature 2 easy bits and one rare that dropped off rare spawns in a tough zone.
The problem with this is the same as it has always been. It is hard to pursuade a group to come with you to get a "Leather Apron" or whatever off a mob on 30 minute spawn with PH where there is negligible exp and/or good chance of dying. It effectively cuts this level of equipment off from people without friends prepared to go through this kind of night-after-night camping.
Especially when the "levels>>>>all" mantra is being chucked about so freely why hang around getting mid level armour when yoou could be getting Ornate in BoT - after all the lessons you learned in Paludal will still work well there.
The problem with this is the same as it has always been. It is hard to pursuade a group to come with you to get a "Leather Apron" or whatever off a mob on 30 minute spawn with PH where there is negligible exp and/or good chance of dying. It effectively cuts this level of equipment off from people without friends prepared to go through this kind of night-after-night camping.
Especially when the "levels>>>>all" mantra is being chucked about so freely why hang around getting mid level armour when yoou could be getting Ornate in BoT - after all the lessons you learned in Paludal will still work well there.
Wherever I go - there I am.
Personally, I think they should do away with this "Hot Spot" foolery, nerf outdoor grind zone xp, increase dungeon xp and call it a day. Then they could stick the quest drops in dungeons where presumably the xp would make it worth the effort even if the quest bit didn't drop.
Another option would be to make it like the Velious quest armors: generic plate/silk/etc drops and then lots of tedious faction grinding to complete the quest. I'm not keen on tedious faction grinding, but it'd help solve the "Rogue wants everyone to go to the rogue camp and warrior wants to go to the warrior camp" issue. But anyway, I know some people will still race to 65 and some people will still have 65 mains who can twink, etc but it would at least create a viable armor path to Velious levels. Either you make use of it or you don't, but the point would be that it should be practical to go from 1-60 without buying armor if you have the resources to quest it and if you are content with the stats.
Still, I'm not too concerned about it needing a group and not being soloable. Everquest is about socialization and grouping. That's the whole MM part of it. I won't say anyone shouldn't be soloing, but it's a simple fact that, if you never build a network of friends/guildmates, you'll never complete most quests (at least not in a lvl appropriate manner). You'll never get Thurg armor, you'll never complete your epic, you won't get a Fier'Dal crown, whatever. How much the soloer cares about this is up to the soloer, but them's the breaks.
Another option would be to make it like the Velious quest armors: generic plate/silk/etc drops and then lots of tedious faction grinding to complete the quest. I'm not keen on tedious faction grinding, but it'd help solve the "Rogue wants everyone to go to the rogue camp and warrior wants to go to the warrior camp" issue. But anyway, I know some people will still race to 65 and some people will still have 65 mains who can twink, etc but it would at least create a viable armor path to Velious levels. Either you make use of it or you don't, but the point would be that it should be practical to go from 1-60 without buying armor if you have the resources to quest it and if you are content with the stats.
Still, I'm not too concerned about it needing a group and not being soloable. Everquest is about socialization and grouping. That's the whole MM part of it. I won't say anyone shouldn't be soloing, but it's a simple fact that, if you never build a network of friends/guildmates, you'll never complete most quests (at least not in a lvl appropriate manner). You'll never get Thurg armor, you'll never complete your epic, you won't get a Fier'Dal crown, whatever. How much the soloer cares about this is up to the soloer, but them's the breaks.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Quote:
In my opinion, I think there should be more quests that can be done, to get good No drop equipment, for a person at their current skill level. The bottom line is I would rather spend 20 hours completing a quest to get a nice item, instead of farming for 10 hours to buy that same nice piece, even if it was no drop.
I agree, I think they ought to remove 25% of the quests no one does anymore and upgrade all of the rest to reflect risk/reward.
I like the No-drop system and think it should be more widely implemented, all quests should result in No-Drop equipment and most mobs should drop droppable gear that is behind what is available questing. That way difficult quests are available to people that like to do that sort of thing, yet those that don't like to quest are not left too far behind as they can still collect drops or purchase equipment in the bazaar.
I also like the system of recommended levels. It makes sense to me from a roleplay perspective that a piece of gear that drops from the plane of time doesn't provide as much benifit to a lvl 1 toon as it does to a lvl 65.
Over all I think SoE is on the right track with the recommended lvl system I would like to see it and No-Drop more widely used in the future
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
I agree with what is said above. I would add that I think they could raise the pre-50 LDoN points per win so that some gear could be obtained that way. Currently, even for a 30 point item, a level 25 character just starting LDoN will probably gain several levels before obtaining the gear - and probably has enough cash to buy something better in the bazaar now. Currently, the points per win looks about like this:
Level Range: Points:
63-65..........50
58-63..........30
53-58..........20
48-53..........13
43-48..........8
38-43..........6 (?)
33-38..........4 (?)
28-33..........2 (?)
23-28..........1 (?)
(With the highest level member of the group getting an extra point, the lowest loosing a point, and a small penalty for being below the average level required for that mission. Question marks indicate I have not directly done missions where the average group level was in that range.)
Each tier is roughly a 50% increase (multiply current by 1.5) to the next tier. I would change this so as to keep the high end the same (since we're not talking about that) and change the multiplier to 1.33 instead thus the table looks roughly like:
Level Range: Points:
63-65..........50
58-63..........38
53-58..........28
48-53..........21
43-48..........16
38-43..........12
33-38..........9
28-33..........7
23-28..........5
This would allow lower level people to get some decent stuff without gaining 6 levels in the interum (and thus basically LDoN is not a viable path for lower end armors).
Clearly, we are not concerned with the very high end in this disccusion, so I don't care if you want to keep, say, the 58-63 point bracket the same. I'm just tossing the numbers out there.
To encourage people to actually *buy* stuff at the lower end, why not give a full LDoN point refund on all gear of cost less then, say, 200 points, a 75% refund for 200-300 point items, a 50% refund for 300-400 point gear and a 25% refund for 400-500 point gear. Above that level, some of the gear is of amazing quality and I would say people should just spend wisely. Also, realistically, under the current system of points, you are probably level 55+ if you are buying anything for 500+ points.
To make the system a bit more uniform, it could be implemented like the US income tax code where all points from 200-300 would be refunded at the 75% level. This would get rid of the non-uniformity that a (hypothetical) 199 point item would return all points but a 201 point item would only return 150. With this "tax bracket" sysytem, a 250 point item would return all of the first 200 points, plus 75% of the next 50, thus returning 237.
Again, I completely agree with reworking lower end quests and if SOE were going to do one or the other, I would do that, but perhaps this is also viable.
Level Range: Points:
63-65..........50
58-63..........30
53-58..........20
48-53..........13
43-48..........8
38-43..........6 (?)
33-38..........4 (?)
28-33..........2 (?)
23-28..........1 (?)
(With the highest level member of the group getting an extra point, the lowest loosing a point, and a small penalty for being below the average level required for that mission. Question marks indicate I have not directly done missions where the average group level was in that range.)
Each tier is roughly a 50% increase (multiply current by 1.5) to the next tier. I would change this so as to keep the high end the same (since we're not talking about that) and change the multiplier to 1.33 instead thus the table looks roughly like:
Level Range: Points:
63-65..........50
58-63..........38
53-58..........28
48-53..........21
43-48..........16
38-43..........12
33-38..........9
28-33..........7
23-28..........5
This would allow lower level people to get some decent stuff without gaining 6 levels in the interum (and thus basically LDoN is not a viable path for lower end armors).
Clearly, we are not concerned with the very high end in this disccusion, so I don't care if you want to keep, say, the 58-63 point bracket the same. I'm just tossing the numbers out there.
To encourage people to actually *buy* stuff at the lower end, why not give a full LDoN point refund on all gear of cost less then, say, 200 points, a 75% refund for 200-300 point items, a 50% refund for 300-400 point gear and a 25% refund for 400-500 point gear. Above that level, some of the gear is of amazing quality and I would say people should just spend wisely. Also, realistically, under the current system of points, you are probably level 55+ if you are buying anything for 500+ points.
To make the system a bit more uniform, it could be implemented like the US income tax code where all points from 200-300 would be refunded at the 75% level. This would get rid of the non-uniformity that a (hypothetical) 199 point item would return all points but a 201 point item would only return 150. With this "tax bracket" sysytem, a 250 point item would return all of the first 200 points, plus 75% of the next 50, thus returning 237.
Again, I completely agree with reworking lower end quests and if SOE were going to do one or the other, I would do that, but perhaps this is also viable.
Friar- best post I've seen all year. As a level 47 Druid that will find it extensively harder to find groups after 50, I would like to see SOE invent quests that give out no-drop armor that is comparable to anything that can be bought in the bazaar. Instead of the arms race/Trump tower play we see 95% of the people on here doing, it would add a lot more fun and reward to the game. The most fun I ever had on EQ was killing countless numbers of mobs in Misty Thicket hoping for the rare drop to give me a piece for my noob armor. If they can invent quality newb armor quests, why can't they do it for mid-level? I try to understand their thinking on this one.
WoW is doing this very well from what I hear.
<paces about waiting for WoW>
<paces about waiting for WoW>
It would be easiest to do as jophiel suggest on the Sol Ro armor type quests. Take out the expensive metals and use something less expensive.
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