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m0g, they made the game easier. time to quit!Follow

#1 Jun 18 2004 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is probably going to blow my post rating down to 1.00 but I figured that I may as well rant about it anyway, because I enjoy ranting.

The past few weeks, I've seen posts on various forums about how people are quitting because of recent changes to the game. No, I'm not talking about the graphics ''fix.'' I'm speaking of positive changes like the new Gunthak stone, or newbs getting more than just a weapon, note, and candle when they first start. I honestly do not get it. These things aren't making such a HUGE impact on all-around play. This is a game. A game is supposed to be fun.

When I started out, everything seemed pretty new, and everything to learn was overwhelming. It took me FIVE sessions to figure out what the hell spell gems were. I spent most of my time dying to blue cons at level 4. I tried to make the Qeynos/Freeport run (I had no idea that ports existed) 10 different times and died on each attempt. That's not fun. That's frustrating. Myself, I'm quite glad they are making things more n00b friendly. I would have loved to have the new tutorial around when I started. Spell gems memmed would have definitely helped my dumb ***** lol. Tell me, what's so wrong with this?

The new Gunthak stone, the PoHate NPC... what's so bad about these things? It makes content more accessible, and thats what the content is there for, right? It's what it was designed for and worked on for, ne? To be accessed and used. What exactly changed? For the level you hunt in LoY zones, travel through tox/paineel/warrens/stonebrunt is way trivial. It's only a *time sink.* Similar to the time sink of shouting "looking for a port to PoHate, donating 100pp" and waiting for someone to respond. As for it being a "kick in the face" to druids and wizards... well, if you think that's all your class does, I feel kind of sad you haven't discovered their potential.

If you're going to quit, quit because YOU aren't having fun, not because the game was improved for other people and you feel it should be more challenging for them. This game is diverse in that area... challenge can be found if you look for it. A group may choose to do an LDoN adventure - pretty easy, pretty straightforward... or, they may choose to explore deep in an "old world" dungeon zone, where there is no graveyard, no time limit, and respawns on mobs.

Lastly, if you don't like certain changes - why use them? Don't like the Gunthak stone? Ignore its existence, travel through stonebrunt as usual. ;) But this back-in-my-day BS is getting annoying. I don't see anyone throwing their phones and computers out the window...

*pushes her car into a lake* CARS MAKE LIFE TOO EASY! We are meant to walk everywhere, anyone who doesn't is lazy! ;p

k, i'm done. :D *hugs*
#2 Jun 18 2004 at 3:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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I find myself in complete agreement.

Besides adding a stone to PoK won't make the game easier it will just make it less of a pain to get to the 30-50 hot spots for those slaves that must get to 65 as fast as posible.
#3 Jun 18 2004 at 3:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Don't like the Gunthak stone? Ignore its existence, travel through stonebrunt as usual.
That won't really solve the problem of the number of boneheads who, a week ago, said Gunthak was "too hard" to reach and are now turning it into LoIO v2.0

The main problem I had with the tutorial wasn't so much the "idiot newbie" factor of needing a voice over, it was the "idiot SOE staff" who decided that instead of compressing it to a 1meg .mp3 file, they should use an 11meg .wav file as if this is 1994 or something.
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#4 Jun 18 2004 at 3:11 PM Rating: Default
Wow so lets make a 1meg mp3 file and push that out rather than the 11meg wav file but in order to do that we will have to rework the entire sound system to work with the mp3 format (outside the mp3 player) then we have to send a patch with a 70meg mp3 sound file update.

Yup makes perfect sense to me. Oh and if an 11Meg down load is killing you stop using a 56K modem that is so 1997.
#5 Jun 18 2004 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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Aside from the fact that there's already an .mp3 player with the game and all of the zone/battle/death/etc music files for the last three expansions have been in .mp3 format so obviously .mp3 functionality exists outside the ALT+K player?

Sure. Dipshi[i][/i]t.
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#6 Jun 18 2004 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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/nods at Kaldea and tarv on this one.

I understand that there are downsides to some aspects of the changes, but hell, if SOE listened to all of the 'game's too easy now' merchants they'd change nothing and we'd have a stagnant game.

Remember how cool PC used to be? Notice how annoying it is now? Worried that Nadox will go the same way?

Yes to the 1st 2, and the 3rd point's a bummer, but that means it's time to explore new areas and start learning new zones, mobs, techniques etc. Of course it will p*ss me off the 1st time I see the "Buffe Me" posse frazzling through the lava river, but there's still plenty of other places they won't ruin yet.

And for every less considerate player that buggers up LoY zones, there might be a few more folks sticking around and becoming good folks to hunt with.

Hats off to Sony for trying - the summit (/em puts cotton wool in his ears to stifle the cries of "Why wasn't I/My Guild Leader/My Forum operator invited?"), the expansions and having the guts to take the risk and mammoth task of improving the graphics engine. Yep, a big phhhart to 'em for cocking up the geometry, but that's getting fixed, but that's the sort of risk that they take.

Without that risk-taking philosophy 5 years ago, we wouldn't have EQ; just a whole bunch more Doom-a-likes!

I'll shut up now. Nurse! My pills please!
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#7 Jun 18 2004 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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but that means it's time to explore new areas
I would, but all the other new areas are just too far away and might require me to cross more than two zonelines. Maybe SOE can make me a port stone to each of them? Smiley: wink2
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#8 Jun 18 2004 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow so lets make a 1meg mp3 file and push that out rather than the 11meg wav file but in order to do that we will have to rework the entire sound system to work with the mp3 format (outside the mp3 player) then we have to send a patch with a 70meg mp3 sound file update.

Yup makes perfect sense to me. Oh and if an 11Meg down load is killing you stop using a 56K modem that is so 1997.


Ummm... nice first post.
Like Jophiel pointed out, mp3 is a valid format for EQ, but nice try.
Besides that though, who would want a more efficient patch download????? That's just absurd!!!! I'd love to spend the time, even though I have a cable modem connection, downloading something that's 10 times the size it could be.


Quote:
Sure. Dipsh[b][/b]it.

#9 Jun 18 2004 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
I agree, making the game more fun and less frustrating is a GOOD THING.

#10 Jun 18 2004 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
I actually think people were much meaner when the game first came out. The kill stealing was much more frequent where as now people just make money through the bazaar and buy thier equipment so no ksing needed really. Either that or they have friends that will equip them.
#11 Jun 18 2004 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think new EQ players (and some old ones) should be issued a special loin cloth. To play the game, you must wear the cloth (with it plugged into a nearby electrical outlet).

Start doing stupid crap in game, and players are able to send you a

/shock command.

With enough jolts, I'm sure we'll prevent the reproduction or perpetuation of dumbasses.

Make it 10 days without a /shock command, and you can pass the loin cloth off to someone else ;)

--------------

In all seriousness, I think SOE needs to look at the fine line between more *accessable* and *easier*.

Changes that are good:
1) Tutorial (besides the .wav download...WTF sony, /shock)
2) Newbie helper items (bandages, food, bag, whatever)
3) Newb quests, spell messages, etc.
4) Shadowkeep


Changes that are bad:
1) New stones to zones already easy to reach via older stones or ports. Some argue this is a good thing, but when I see a level 60...level SIXTY character that doesn't know his way through the warrens (a trip I used to brave at level 20 to get to SBM), that just sickens me. Some of these players couldn't find their own *** without an appropriate PoK stone.

I'm not saying *all* stones are bad...they're definitely a GOOD thing, but the overperpetuation of stones is a terrible, terrible thing. Stones should only lead to cities, or main zones of expansions. Coming next: PoTime stone!

Having an over-easy access to so many zones leads to brainless, Diablo-2-like playing of the game, which is a shame. Out of health? OMG, use stone, beg for heals in PoK, use stone again, fight more, etc.

/shock



2) Hotspots-- They encourage the rail-roading of leveling through specific zones. Such a sad thing, since a new player WANTING TO EXPORE NEW STUFF is nearly forced *NOT* to because he/she must find a group....and when's the last time you had a pickup group in Unrest, or Droga, or that dungeon in Warslike that I can't remember to save my life?

If SOE had even half a brain, they would equalize "common exp grind spots" with appropriate loot and experience, awarding slightly more exp for slightly harder zones.

Why would someone actually explore interesting, but dangerous, content when all they have to do is go to the SOE-sanctioned zones?

Please, LoY zones are *easy* grind zones, single-pullable without a luller, with mobs dropping PP-selling items and gems. It's hard for some zones to compete with that, especially when these new Hotspots are getting their own damn stone.

/shock

Of course, SOE could be really smart, and *intentionally* herding people in a few zones. This guarantees newbies will be able to find pickups with server populations ever-decreasing due to mass competition on the horizon. Happy newbie = returning customer.






#12 Jun 18 2004 at 5:47 PM Rating: Good
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that dungeon in Warslike that I can't remember to save my life?
Crypt of Dalnir Smiley: smile
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#13 Jun 18 2004 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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"idiot SOE staff" who decided that instead of compressing it to a 1meg .mp3 file, they should use an 11meg .wav file as if this is 1994 or something.


Smiley: lol
#14 Jun 18 2004 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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DruidOfEq wrote:
I actually think people were much meaner when the game first came out. The kill stealing was much more frequent where as now people just make money through the bazaar and buy thier equipment so no ksing needed really. Either that or they have friends that will equip them.



Yes and no. Back in the day, there were two broad types of players, and to be honest, the character classes went along with them. There were people who hunted in dungeons for loot, and people who farmed for money to get loot.

While there was some overlap, for the most part, the people hunting for loot were doing so because they were good grouping classes, and they were poor soloing classes (bad at farming). The people farming for loot were good soloing classes, but not so good/wanted for grouping.


Realize, I'm talking about back in the day when SolB, Guk, MM, and CT were the primary sources of sellable loot in the game. These zones were perma camped. Literally, every single mob in the zone was dead constantly, and each group in the zone had their "area" where when a mob spawned, they got to kill it. For the farmers, there was basically HGs in Rathe, IGs in EF, and SGs/specs in Oasis.


The KSing and "meaness" had far less to do with the presense of a bazaar and far more to do with there being far fewer places to hunt for anything of value at the top end.


There's still KSing and meaness though, it's just that it's less on the hunters and more on the farmers. Try hunting in that really good silk dropping area. You'll get competition. Or that spot where lots of Acrylia drops. Yup. More competition. In some ways, the bazaar has increased the rate of KSing and competition for farming. It's still not as bad as it was way back when, but it's worse then it was in say the Velious era. There's now much more value for all that tradeskill stuff. I remember the first time someone gave me 3pp for a stack of bone chips! I thought the guy was nuts! I remember stacks of spider silks selling for like 1-2pp. With the demand for that suff flying high (due totally to the bazaar), we're seeing a lot more people farming stuff that everyone else used to just keep around as they hunted to give to someone who needed it.


Hard to say if that's better or worse. It's definately "different".
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#15 Jun 18 2004 at 7:39 PM Rating: Decent
The fact of the matter for a lot of people jumping ship is the fact that EQ is going too soft. The point of EQ was for people to use something resembling intellect to figure out what to do or where to go. **** wasn't supposed to be easy. You had to work for it. You earned it. Now people can go on EBay and MySuperSales and buy whatever they want. Problem is, they have no ******* clue how to play.

The heart of EQ is the people that have been there, done that, and have the claw marks on their computer desks to prove it. Yeah, people will ***** when things come out saying that it's making things too easy. Quite simply, SOE is listening to the wrong people. Instead of listening to the whiney EBay n00bs who don't know how to play the 65th Enchanter they just bought, they should be listening to the people who've played for five years and have always ******* about broken quests, zone bugs, etc.

But the ultimate bottom line is this. Games are supposed to be fun. So why play if you're not having for, regardless the reason.
#16 Jun 18 2004 at 7:59 PM Rating: Decent
i have no issue with the 'comfort enhancements' to the game. but why WAIST valuble coding power on junk like that when there is plenty of broaken code that needs to be fixed.

isnt that the #1 reason ppl were so vexed about the newest expansion? isnt that the #1 reason SoE claimed they would hold off on its release date so they could dedicate themself to FIXING things?

or did i just miss something here?
#17 Jun 18 2004 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
Well to tell the truth when EQ first came out I had great trouble just getting to level 20. I never was in the high end of the game until about a year or two ago when equipment got much better. When the game first came out you were lucky to get a piece of equipment that had some kind of stat on it. Most items didn't. In fact most weapons and armor weren't magic. There was lots of ksing in highpass hold with gnolls for the axe or orcs for the halberd.
#18 Jun 18 2004 at 8:35 PM Rating: Decent
hehe, I died myself on that Freeport/Qeynos run as a noob.. I was old enough to have to retrieve my corpse also. That took a lot of time and patience.
#19 Jun 18 2004 at 10:00 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
1) New stones to zones already easy to reach via older stones or ports. Some argue this is a good thing, but when I see a level 60...level SIXTY character that doesn't know his way through the warrens (a trip I used to brave at level 20 to get to SBM), that just sickens me. Some of these players couldn't find their own *** without an appropriate PoK stone.


Perhaps it would be better then, if you had to get "keyed" to a stone. Do some sort of quest, or even just simply get there the long way, to be able to access the zone through pok.. Just a thought

Quote:
2) Hotspots-- They encourage the rail-roading of leveling through specific zones. Such a sad thing, since a new player WANTING TO EXPORE NEW STUFF is nearly forced *NOT* to because he/she must find a group....and when's the last time you had a pickup group in Unrest, or Droga, or that dungeon in Warslike that I can't remember to save my life?


I actually really like the "hotspots" the only trouble I find is that they said they'd be rotating.. I think it should rotate weekly, to encourage more variations in zone.

My own personal suggestion is an better Exp:Loot ratio. If a zone has a good ZEM, then the loot shouldn't be as good. If a zone has no ZEM, then you should get good loot to compensate.

#20 Jun 19 2004 at 5:24 AM Rating: Decent
I have never really explained why I am not crazy about the Gunthak stone. You all wondered why, right?

Well here it is. As someone who enjoys visiting all and any zone, I have almost no problem knowing where someone is talking about. Adding more stones takes away from the game itself. There was a 44 necro I watched "grow" up rather quickly. He was looking for bonechips one night. Oh my did I want to lifetap him for that. But when I said go to Kurns tower in FOB (yes I even spelled it out), he said great, "how is the xp?" The loot good. I said no, you wanted bonechips. Go kill the zone. "Well I am looking for some xp". Uh doofus you asked for bonechips, you want a pet you need bonechips. I wanted to cry for 2 reasons. Not knowing a very lucrative zone for our class and the complete mentality of "I need to get xp" pshaw grrr. Go have a little freakin fun.

I have toyed with the idea of giving Norrath tours "You are giving tours?" Yes I am "Ok I am ready to port" Great, You are running, but I will remember that.
#21 Jun 19 2004 at 5:38 AM Rating: Decent
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When I started playing there were idiots. I'm not sure the idiot density has changed dramatically.

I do think there are problems caused by making the start easier but they are problems for the newbie, not ones that affect anyone else.

What I find far more depressing is the frequency with which I now run into /ooc conversations in newbie zones that go along the lines of:-

Newb_01: Where can I make some pp?
Platstooge_01: Why make pp when you can do chores IRL and buy it?

Now I have no idea if the people saying this are indeed stooges of the plat-sellers or just people who've bought and want more people to so they can feel legitimised.

What I do think it does is make a mockery of the game. Bazaar prices rise beyond levels that people playing normally can achieve, people get laughed at for doing normal newbie activities like their newbie armour.
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#22 Jun 19 2004 at 6:15 AM Rating: Good
Yer wasting your breath, especially on a EQ message board. Complaining about trivial stuff is all some people do when it comes to EQ (And every other game out there).

No matter how trivial the change, there will be someone who will claim it infringes on some aspect of their gameplay. If they can't come up with a non-laughable reason as to how it affects them, they will complain that they aren't changing the "right" things or are wasting their time on minor issues. The running complaint of Verant/Sony is they are the lord of the nerf, but reaction to the first summit patch that contains a buttload of enhancement and fixes is making people quit?

If they take to long to patch, people whine that it takes ages to get anything fixed. If they patch to quickly, their Q&A sucks.

If they fix trivial things that take a few keystrokes in a database, they aren't concentrating on the "important" issues. If they spend time on big things, they don't care about the minor annoyances.

If they fix PoP zones, all they care about is the ubers. If they fix the spawn in PC, they are wasting time on zones that players only spend a fraction of their playing time in.

If they do anything to reduce downtime, they are both ruining the upper end game by allowing losers to get to levels to quickly and not doing enough to get rid of time sinks.

Soulbinders? Someones livelyhood from casting bind has been ruined. Druids/Shamans get Superior heal? Nobody will want clerics anymore. Last patch added beastlords to who could wear an item and also added an instrument bonus and some schmuck ******* about "Oh, that'll help all those beastlords who sing bard songs Hurr hurr hurr".

You can't win, so just laugh at em :)
#23 Jun 19 2004 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
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Major changes I am really grateful for since I started:

No more trying to get your level 1-10 corpse to recover your pitiful knife and food.

No more being lost without maps, using only a wobbly compas.

No more haveing to look through 50 bags in the tunnels to find an item that is actually good for your class, that you can actually afford. At that time I never thought I would see 1K. Same for wanting to buy pelts and silks.

No more getting people to transfer your possesions to an alt.

No more begging for ports to most common places, or spending hours of game time running (I still resent how far most of the LDoN dungeons are from the camp-just wasted time to run through 2 or 3 zones, and why?). I still want a stone to ONE LDoN camp.

Those who whine about these things because they like a harder game, can have it, do not have to look at a map or use the bazaar, run everywhere, and recover your newb corpses.
Everyone likes different aspects of the game. I like the bazaar and shopping, and tradeskilling almost as much as leveling.
If you like to explore, you certainly can. If you don't like it, you want faster ways to get places.



#24 Jun 19 2004 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
I played this game at day 1 retail release I was there for the intial crashes and roll backs. I played for a year the the game was hard, people were asses they KS'd and camped anything good, It took forever to get anywhere, everyone always begging for a sow. I left for 4 years, I came back in Feb IMO the game is much much better now, I do have fond memories of a crashing boat, and exploration. That was because the game was so new. The game is better now, its still not too easy, it is now more fun. If you think the game is too easy now, please quit. The only thing really wrong with the game is there is still whining, childish people who still play. I will say this, reading the crap some people complain about does provide some entertainment. When I think how small and insignifigant their lives must be to get so emotional over a new PoK stone I just have to laugh.
#25 Jun 19 2004 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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I just wish you could get that sweet little charm that you HAVE to be less than lvl 5 to get. Why not just make it so that if you are OVER 5th lvl you just get it? Under 5th lvl you do the cutsey lil quest thing?
#26 Jun 19 2004 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
There has been alot of changes. I don't mind the portals, but it did have an impact on the two classes that provides ports. In respect to those classes, it would be similar to argue that all players should be given Temp, KEI, and similar buffs from the get go; hence, not need in awaiting to pay someone to buff you or having to pay. Heck, It is a game which is still fun to play.
The issues I have are they made it too easy to level initally the underconning of mobs, and the need to have a full group to hunt most areas. With the introduction of Luclin, mobs have high amount of hitpoints, undercon, and in general loot was hard to come by. I wont go into details this has been addressed, but a lot of promises that came with Luclin and the following expansions went by the waist-side. It seems SoE might have noticed this when they delayed Omens.
They tried to balance the classes and ease movment but at the same time the unblance the entire game. It is my hope they will seriously look into it and possiably revamp the game. I like the game and working with others is the fun part.
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