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You can't fault this....Follow
in other words expect a rash of broken patch after broken patch for the next month or so.
this also means loads of emergency patching, zone crashing, server crashing, and I CANT LOG IN... bs msg.
get ready. would be nice if SoE would just learn how to test things properly before they go live.
now instead of only having to deal with 1 expansion set of code to fix errors, they have 5+- years of code to fix.
this also means loads of emergency patching, zone crashing, server crashing, and I CANT LOG IN... bs msg.
get ready. would be nice if SoE would just learn how to test things properly before they go live.
now instead of only having to deal with 1 expansion set of code to fix errors, they have 5+- years of code to fix.
Quote:
Increase the spawn rate of the Shattered Emerald of Corruption.
Maybe there is a chance of Earthcaller after all.
Quite how this made it into a batch of changes evidently designed to calm down people upset over the recent problems I'm not sure.
And they do this just when I'm not going to be playing the ranger for a while. Such is EQ.
Wherever I go - there I am.
we moan becuse there are bugs, then we moan because they are gonna have to patch to fix the bugs. a hard lot to please are us EQ players
Compared to users of other 'serious' software, EQ users are a shockingly placid group of fanboys. No where else in the computer world do you find people who defend the programmers for releasing completely broken code. Using only the DX9 patch as an example, could anyone possibly imagine that the collision issues weren't noticed during code testing? Would any other producer of software ever send code from test to production in such a state?
There is no excuse for Sony's failure to properly test and debug their software. This isn't an issue of 'you don't like it, don't play it'. As paying consumers of a product, we have a right to a product in working order. Accept nothing less.
There is no excuse for Sony's failure to properly test and debug their software. This isn't an issue of 'you don't like it, don't play it'. As paying consumers of a product, we have a right to a product in working order. Accept nothing less.
You also have the right to close your account and f f f fade away.
And you have the right to roll over and let people walk all over without saying a thing.
Quote:
Compared to users of other 'serious' software, EQ users are a shockingly placid group of fanboys. No where else in the computer world do you find people who defend the programmers for releasing completely broken code. Using only the DX9 patch as an example, could anyone possibly imagine that the collision issues weren't noticed during code testing? Would any other producer of software ever send code from test to production in such a state?
There is no excuse for Sony's failure to properly test and debug their software. This isn't an issue of 'you don't like it, don't play it'. As paying consumers of a product, we have a right to a product in working order. Accept nothing less.
There is no excuse for Sony's failure to properly test and debug their software. This isn't an issue of 'you don't like it, don't play it'. As paying consumers of a product, we have a right to a product in working order. Accept nothing less.
Since when does a game count as 'serious software'? I think the reason so many people are 'placid' is because, when you get right down to it, IT'S NOT THAT IMPORTANT! Nobody will lose their life's savings over collision in EQ. Locking up in POK will not make the difference in whether you get your home loan or not. Lagging in the bazaar is not as important as the structural integrity of an 80 story building.
EQ is a game. Repeat. EQ is a game. It costs 12.95/month, I think. I'm not even sure that's the price. Why? Because I'm paying less than the cost of a decent meal for a play-as-much-as-I-want subscription. The amount I pay is so paltry that I don't even have that high of expectations. C'mon, exactly how much do you expect for that much money?
For my money, yes I want as much as I can get. Currently, I think I'm getting a good deal. Is EQ buggy as hell? Sure. Do I get pissed when playing sometimes? Sure. Would I like to see improvements? Of course. Would I like to play in a bug-free game. Yeah, but when has that EVER happened? Is it worth mounting a crusade over? Nope.
It is my opinion that if this bothers you so much, you might want to take a little 'time out' from EQ. There's a really big world out there with lots of other things to do. Stressing over the status of a game should be way down there at the bottom of almost everyone's list. If you work for SOE, stress away. That's your job.
My
I am a professional programmer; 25 years. My girlfriend is a critical care RN, ICU, LifeFlight. If she did her job the way Sony does theirs, there would be dead people up and down the streets instead of dancing with their family. If I did my job the way Sony did, battery products used from the military to cell phones would last 5 minutes and explode in your face.
Granted, without doubt, her job is the most important. Real life in your face.
However, there is an aspect of professionalism that needs to be understood and delievered by each programmer and project manager. That is simply what this is about to me.
Granted, without doubt, her job is the most important. Real life in your face.
However, there is an aspect of professionalism that needs to be understood and delievered by each programmer and project manager. That is simply what this is about to me.
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we moan becuse there are bugs, then we moan because they are gonna have to patch to fix the bugs. a hard lot to please are us EQ players
If you're not happy with the service, you're free to cancel your sub at any time. There are plenty of other MMORPGs out there now that aren't run by SOE.
Everquest isn't some kind of mystical exception to a rule. If you pay to see a movie in the theater, and the film is cut 20 minutes before the end, you would complain. If you go to an amusement park, pay your $35 and then they tell you 8 of the 10 rides are broken, you would head right to the manager and ask for a refund. If a plumber comes to install a sink, then you have trouble with the pipes leaking for a month after the job, you would ask for it to be fixed.
Necessity or frivolous pastime, it doesn't matter. Each is part of your life and it is what you are spending your time and money on. If you don't expect quality and competence from the people and the world around you, you are shortchanging yourself.
I'm a programmer also and I know how hard it is to produce completely bug-free code. The quality of 'live' code release from Sony goes beyond any acceptable level of human conduct. It just isn't sufficiently tested, period.
Ultimately, as a consumer of a product, my strongest vote is to terminate my relationship, switch soaps, buy Bud light instead of Miller Lite, change their regime, or cheer for the other team. But this is a last resort because you can only do it once. As a less severe, interim measure, one hopes for change little by little by making our voices heard - by complaining. When a consumer complains about a product, it is because they like it and want to keep using it. They care about it, sometimes more than the company making it. When Coke changed their formula, if people hadn't complained, we wouldn't have Coke today, it would be gone, relegated to the vast pit of failed food products that no one liked: a loss to Coke drinkers, the people who Coke employs, and the people that invested in Coke's future (shareholders).
Everquest is a game made by a company that wants to sell subscriptions to you, to make money for their shareholders. Ultimately, they want to keep our subscriptions, so they don't have to go in front of the shareholder's meeting and explain why they are losing money. To keep our money, they want to make us happy. If I cancel my account without voicing my concerns, I am doing both myself, Everquest, and Sony a disservice because none of us gain anything. When someone complains, we all win because we might wind up happier, Everquest might improve, and Sony might make more money.
What we don't need are people that simply roll over take everything that gets dished out to them, 'oh thank you Smedley, we aren't worthy of your attention', or 'Don't like it, cancel!' If you are willing to do nothing to make improvements, why are you even here? You take, take, take, and give nothing back...
...like a tick.
Necessity or frivolous pastime, it doesn't matter. Each is part of your life and it is what you are spending your time and money on. If you don't expect quality and competence from the people and the world around you, you are shortchanging yourself.
I'm a programmer also and I know how hard it is to produce completely bug-free code. The quality of 'live' code release from Sony goes beyond any acceptable level of human conduct. It just isn't sufficiently tested, period.
Ultimately, as a consumer of a product, my strongest vote is to terminate my relationship, switch soaps, buy Bud light instead of Miller Lite, change their regime, or cheer for the other team. But this is a last resort because you can only do it once. As a less severe, interim measure, one hopes for change little by little by making our voices heard - by complaining. When a consumer complains about a product, it is because they like it and want to keep using it. They care about it, sometimes more than the company making it. When Coke changed their formula, if people hadn't complained, we wouldn't have Coke today, it would be gone, relegated to the vast pit of failed food products that no one liked: a loss to Coke drinkers, the people who Coke employs, and the people that invested in Coke's future (shareholders).
Everquest is a game made by a company that wants to sell subscriptions to you, to make money for their shareholders. Ultimately, they want to keep our subscriptions, so they don't have to go in front of the shareholder's meeting and explain why they are losing money. To keep our money, they want to make us happy. If I cancel my account without voicing my concerns, I am doing both myself, Everquest, and Sony a disservice because none of us gain anything. When someone complains, we all win because we might wind up happier, Everquest might improve, and Sony might make more money.
What we don't need are people that simply roll over take everything that gets dished out to them, 'oh thank you Smedley, we aren't worthy of your attention', or 'Don't like it, cancel!' If you are willing to do nothing to make improvements, why are you even here? You take, take, take, and give nothing back...
...like a tick.
Voice away. I hope you win me some more features for my monthly fee. I won't complain if you do. Or if you don't. You'll probably be more effective doing it over on the SOE boards, though.
As a programmer, you know a lot more about quality code than I do. As a consumer, I can say that if I went to a park where eight of the ten rides were broken, I probably wouldn't go in. Especially if there were people in the parking lot carrying signs and making noise about how they got screwed out of their admission fees. But if those same people were out there complaining about how the ride took 30 seconds too long to start and they didn't like the way the passenger restraints locked automatically and how the sounds in the haunted house were not phonetically correct, etc., I'd brush them off as a bunch of whiners.
SOE says they're going to fix some stuff instead of concentrating on the next expansion. Yet this is a reason to complain?
The bottom line is the game works pretty well already. It is extensive. With many many people working on the code, you can expect some things not to mesh perfectly. Last time I checked, the EQ world seemed to run smoother than the real one. That's probably one reason so many people spend so much time playing.
As a programmer, you know a lot more about quality code than I do. As a consumer, I can say that if I went to a park where eight of the ten rides were broken, I probably wouldn't go in. Especially if there were people in the parking lot carrying signs and making noise about how they got screwed out of their admission fees. But if those same people were out there complaining about how the ride took 30 seconds too long to start and they didn't like the way the passenger restraints locked automatically and how the sounds in the haunted house were not phonetically correct, etc., I'd brush them off as a bunch of whiners.
SOE says they're going to fix some stuff instead of concentrating on the next expansion. Yet this is a reason to complain?
The bottom line is the game works pretty well already. It is extensive. With many many people working on the code, you can expect some things not to mesh perfectly. Last time I checked, the EQ world seemed to run smoother than the real one. That's probably one reason so many people spend so much time playing.
To hijack the thread only slightly, I didnt see anything in that list of changes about the Z-axis issues (skellies swimming in the floor, banker up to his waist in the ground, dead mobs suspended in mid air, merchants standing on top of their tents, attacking mobs repeatedly sliding down the hillside). I have those issues on three significantly different boxes (2 good ones, one so-so). It seems a little better than right after the DX9 release, but STILL! It has been weeks now. Is there any info anywhere about these issues being addressed?
Or is it just me? :)
Karlowin Fennon ro
Or is it just me? :)
Karlowin Fennon ro
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Ultimately, as a consumer of a product, my strongest vote is to terminate my relationship, switch soaps, buy Bud...
As a less severe, interim measure, one hopes for change little by little by making our voices heard - by complaining. When a consumer complains about a product, it is because they like it and want to keep using it. They care about it, sometimes more than the company making it.
As a less severe, interim measure, one hopes for change little by little by making our voices heard - by complaining. When a consumer complains about a product, it is because they like it and want to keep using it. They care about it, sometimes more than the company making it.
Samatman...very, very well stated. Your arguement definitely holds water from a marketing perspective. A statistic that I learned in Marketing class is it takes a company 3 times as much revenue to attract customers who have defected to a competitor's prodcut than it takes to attract new customers. With EQ2 on the horizon and the competition in the market once again getting fierce, it only makes financial sense for any organization to take the critics very seriously and improve upon the processes.
How well this is this will be done has yet to be seen. If SOE does a good job with fixing the bugs and the servers remain stable...kudos to them. If the bugs cause additional bugs and large amounts of server downtime we then have a clear indication that internal change control processes at SOE are seriously broke. In the latter case this IS a major management issue, for you are giving your competition a major competitive advantage.
neverdone wrote:
And you have the right to roll over and let people walk all over without saying a thing.
Oddly enough, I don't equate seeing the occasional NPC buried to its neck in the earth, or the need to reboot my computer once or twice a week, as being "walked over".
I don't see it as an afront to my dignity or self worth, nor as a challenge to my political beliefs or philosophy of life.
Everquest is just one avenue of personal entertainment, among a plethora of enternainment available to me and the occasional bug that might happen to affect me during game play is somewhat less of an irritation than the DVD movie that insists that I read 20 foriegn language copyright warnings before I can switch it off.
The really amusing bit of the psychology that is at play in all of this BB furor over game bugs, is that 80% of the posts will be from people who haven't actually suffered any real game problems themselves, but are just slavishly following the current fad of whining about "something".
Samatman wrote:
Everquest isn't some kind of mystical exception to a rule. If you pay to see a movie in the theater, and the film is cut 20 minutes before the end, you would complain. If you go to an amusement park, pay your $35 and then they tell you 8 of the 10 rides are broken, you would head right to the manager and ask for a refund. If a plumber comes to install a sink, then you have trouble with the pipes leaking for a month after the job, you would ask for it to be fixed.
Yeah. But your analogy isn't really correct. It's more like you purchased a year pass to the local amusement park, only to find out that on some days the park is closed, or on some days, some of the rides wont be open. That's pretty normal if you've ever purchased one of those passes btw.
You're looking at particular instances and comparing them to an ongoing product and expecting the same level of quality. Sure. If I pay my 7.50 at a particular time for a particular film, I expect that the film will start reasonably on time and will be fully intact and the sound will be good, etc... And certainly, if that one time those expectations were not met, I would expect my money back. However, I do not expect that there will *never* be problems with that theatre. If I pay for a years worth of tickets, I understand that on occasion, something will go wrong. That's just the way the real world works.
Again. You pay a ludicrously low amount of money to play EQ. If I'm paying 7.50 for 2 hours in a theatre, those two hours better be worth my money. If I'm paying $13 for the ability to log onto a service at any time for any length of time over the course of a month, I really don't have the same expectation. I expect to get $13 worth of enjoyment out of it. If we were to equate that to a moviegoing experience, then if I get more then 4 hours of good entertainment per month out of EQ, then my money was as well spent as it would have been going to the movies. I'm willing to bet that no one ******** about EQ has *ever* gotten less then 4 hours of good EQ playing out of any given month.
You always have to make a relative value assessment. And in that assessment, EQ is pretty darn good for what you get for you money. If you really think you'll get better elsewhere then by all means go buy your online fun somewhere else.
Having said that, I do agree that recently EQ has had more then it's "normal" rate of problems (primarily the result of DX9). But why then ***** when they say they're going to focus on fixing the problems? I just find it amusing that some people manage to find the dark cloud in any silver lining...
I also find it doubly amusing when people accuse SOE of pushing new prouct when they haven't fixed all the bugs in the existing ones, yet are still ******** now the SOE has pushed back Omens to fix bugs. You just can't please everyone and sometimes you just have to ignore the people who perma-***** about everything.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Samatman wrote:
Compared to users of other 'serious' software, EQ users are a shockingly placid group of fanboys. No where else in the computer world do you find people who defend the programmers for releasing completely broken code. Using only the DX9 patch as an example, could anyone possibly imagine that the collision issues weren't noticed during code testing? Would any other producer of software ever send code from test to production in such a state?
There is no excuse for Sony's failure to properly test and debug their software. This isn't an issue of 'you don't like it, don't play it'. As paying consumers of a product, we have a right to a product in working order. Accept nothing less.
There is no excuse for Sony's failure to properly test and debug their software. This isn't an issue of 'you don't like it, don't play it'. As paying consumers of a product, we have a right to a product in working order. Accept nothing less.
I only post this because we are just completing a third generation IT upgrade in our office, and we have finally binned Back Office Server for NT 2003, Exchange, etc. And this brought to mind the hundreds of man hours spent, working with MS support, to configure, patch, reconfigure, patch... etc etc etc our Back Office Server. The last service pack I remember was up to number 7, its probably many more now. (I luckily escaped the IT responsibility a couple of years ago).
Now, I don't think that you could deny that Back Office Server is a "serious piece of software". During the period of time that I administered it, MS increaded their support charges at least three times and made our original copy of BOS obselete within two years obliging two upgrade purchases over a period of 4 years. The cost of all of this runs into the thousands of dollars by the way.
I would think that every MS server user in the world would daily pray that MS product and service might some how reach the level of software quality/cost and support we enjoy with Everquest.
Oh and for all of you Microsoft haters, a good friend is the admistrator and head developer of a very large administaration/reporting system built on an Oracle platform, he thinks Microsoft service levels are godly.
gbaji wrote:
You always have to make a relative value assessment. And in that assessment, EQ is pretty darn good for what you get for you money
Having said that, I do agree that recently EQ has had more then it's "normal" rate of problems (primarily the result of DX9). But why then ***** when they say they're going to focus on fixing the problems? I just find it amusing that some people manage to find the dark cloud in any silver lining...
You just can't please everyone and sometimes you just have to ignore the people who perma-***** about everything.
Having said that, I do agree that recently EQ has had more then it's "normal" rate of problems (primarily the result of DX9). But why then ***** when they say they're going to focus on fixing the problems? I just find it amusing that some people manage to find the dark cloud in any silver lining...
You just can't please everyone and sometimes you just have to ignore the people who perma-***** about everything.
I think EQ is great value for the money. I think EQ has compelling levels of content and gameplay, better than other games out there right now. But EQ suffers from massively poor testing and QA, and has for years. The garbage they release in their production patches is so absolutely horrific that it is beyond me how anyone with programming experience can defend them. They haven't got a serious test environment (test server) and their QA is grossly inadequate:
Grumbuk-Dev EQ Programmer wrote:
msg source Today (5/30) we put code on test that seems to solve the sunken NPC & player problem. So far it appears to be fixed. There is a minor issue where NPCs whose spawn point is too close to a wall or object can be partially sunk or elevated until they are pulled from their spawnpoint, but they correct themselves after they are pulled. This will be fixed pretty soon, but at a lower priority than most of the remaining collision bugs. The sunken NPC problem had the side effect of causing server lag and interfering with pathing somewhat, so you may notice both of those improved.
(when will this be patched in?)I think it's likely to be early Wednesday morning (3 or 4am or thereabouts) due to the holiday schedule. This would be so the QA department could spend the full day Tuesday testing the changes made over the weekend.
(when will this be patched in?)I think it's likely to be early Wednesday morning (3 or 4am or thereabouts) due to the holiday schedule. This would be so the QA department could spend the full day Tuesday testing the changes made over the weekend.
1) Yehaa they are trying once again to fix problems that they pushed to live servers 4 weeks ago and I am so glad that they care about me so much that they would still spend such effort to fix these problems.
or
2) What a boat load of crap. 4 weeks after they send massively buggy code to production servers they are still trying to fix the mess they made. Did I see that right, 3 days over a holiday weekend to test and QA the next patch?? Don't they set their expectations high!
Try to seperate "the game" from what I am actually complaining about - bad coding and poor testing. In the end, despite multiple attempts to fix the DX9 patch of 4 weeks ago, we still have sunken mobs (as well as a host of additional problems). Is the game playable? Absolutely! Should you ignore problems because you can still ding an AA? It just depends how much quality and care you expect from your fellow man. If it was me, I would expect that something as important and ground shaking as switching to DX9 compliance would have been tested and QA'd until it was mostly bug free, and then released to live servers. Apparently, I expect too much.
Edited, Thu Jun 3 08:49:24 2004 by Samatman
LOl I was just thinking about how long it took them to fix the boats...or are they still broken?
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LOl I was just thinking about how long it took them to fix the boats...or are they still broken?
They're still broken. The Translocators appear to all be working correctly (for once), so this isn't a huge issue. I've recently taken up the fishing tradeskill and haven't seen a boat dock at Freeport for (RL) days.
The boats were permanently removed from the game some time ago.
So doesn't matter how long you stand at the dock waiting you are not going to see one.
So doesn't matter how long you stand at the dock waiting you are not going to see one.
Scholar
24 posts
Seriously..
What was the last MAJOR contribution you made to the EQ community?
I'm satisfied with everquest. Mind you i've never done a high level raid or even explored more than 1/4 of the game world, but other than that i'm satisfied.
What should i argue for then, hmm? Smaller game world? Easier access to higher levels so i can participate in more events?
Everquest is a game environment and i think you need to understand that. Alot of you examples are just completely frivolous, useless text.
Coke is a completely different story, totally unrelated. Why? Because you cannot guarantee that coke would have dissapeared. Companies are messing with their product on a daily basis. New formula here, smaller bottles, etc. They change because of some kind of marketing reasons. For example, they'll change the forumla of your shampoo, and put it in smaller bottles, and decrease the price because it's "New & Improved". It's a different approach on their product and it just stays. Sometimes they increase the bottle size, look at Herbal Essences, and Head and Shoulders. They've both released larger bottles with their new and improved forumla and i still don't care because i don't need 2L of shampoo.
A for your example on the amusement park. Completely worthless. Why? Because that's an amusment park that i'm going to take my family to for 1 day for $200 and if it's broken down that'd make for a real crappy time.
Everquest on the other time is a ride that i can go on any time i want. It cost's me about 60 cents a day (i'm in canada which is why that won't equate to anyone with a different dollar value than the american dollar).
It's not perfect, but I understand what kind of grandiose scale they're working on. There's alot to handle. I'm a programmer myself, or ex-programmer i should say. There are alot of finite details to consider when working on something like an MMORPG. And many, and I MEAN MANY MANY MANY of these problems that creep up probably wouldn't be found by any design team. And the test server is a poor example too based on the fact that it is really a limited example of the player base.
And for my last argument. The DX9 Problems. How many have i had? 0. I'm completely satisfied. The only beef i had was acutally having to remove my DX9 SDK. I never got stuck in anything. Ever. In my entire 3 years of Everquest. I've never had a crash except for a year ago when i bought some bad ram. Never had problems in PoK or anything. So i'm not really entitled to complain.
But for those of you who do. Don't. Complaining never got anyone anywhere. It's annoying and bothersome.
You can affect change through more assertive means. Instead of complaining try and get everyone together with that problem. Replicate the problem and test the problem. Figure out how the problem through every player-based means availiable. And once you've done that write up a quick document on exactly how the problem works, major areas it affects, if theres any workarounds. That'd give SoE dev's a good starting point. Well, sure as hell a far sight better one than "I'm stuck in a wall and it always happens. Fix it or i'm quitting."
Most if not all of the time when people complain, much in the same way i've described in the last line of the previous paragraph. It's just plain irritating and obtrusive. Instead of coming as a form of information it comes in like just some errant buzzing.
But clear concise descriptions of problems. Now that's going to get you somewhere. Espectially when you parlay the gravity of the situation. "Hard to play when stuck in a wall". Just sounds better than "If i keep getting stuck in the wall you can stick my subscription up your.."
Just my 2cp
What was the last MAJOR contribution you made to the EQ community?
I'm satisfied with everquest. Mind you i've never done a high level raid or even explored more than 1/4 of the game world, but other than that i'm satisfied.
What should i argue for then, hmm? Smaller game world? Easier access to higher levels so i can participate in more events?
Everquest is a game environment and i think you need to understand that. Alot of you examples are just completely frivolous, useless text.
Coke is a completely different story, totally unrelated. Why? Because you cannot guarantee that coke would have dissapeared. Companies are messing with their product on a daily basis. New formula here, smaller bottles, etc. They change because of some kind of marketing reasons. For example, they'll change the forumla of your shampoo, and put it in smaller bottles, and decrease the price because it's "New & Improved". It's a different approach on their product and it just stays. Sometimes they increase the bottle size, look at Herbal Essences, and Head and Shoulders. They've both released larger bottles with their new and improved forumla and i still don't care because i don't need 2L of shampoo.
A for your example on the amusement park. Completely worthless. Why? Because that's an amusment park that i'm going to take my family to for 1 day for $200 and if it's broken down that'd make for a real crappy time.
Everquest on the other time is a ride that i can go on any time i want. It cost's me about 60 cents a day (i'm in canada which is why that won't equate to anyone with a different dollar value than the american dollar).
It's not perfect, but I understand what kind of grandiose scale they're working on. There's alot to handle. I'm a programmer myself, or ex-programmer i should say. There are alot of finite details to consider when working on something like an MMORPG. And many, and I MEAN MANY MANY MANY of these problems that creep up probably wouldn't be found by any design team. And the test server is a poor example too based on the fact that it is really a limited example of the player base.
And for my last argument. The DX9 Problems. How many have i had? 0. I'm completely satisfied. The only beef i had was acutally having to remove my DX9 SDK. I never got stuck in anything. Ever. In my entire 3 years of Everquest. I've never had a crash except for a year ago when i bought some bad ram. Never had problems in PoK or anything. So i'm not really entitled to complain.
But for those of you who do. Don't. Complaining never got anyone anywhere. It's annoying and bothersome.
You can affect change through more assertive means. Instead of complaining try and get everyone together with that problem. Replicate the problem and test the problem. Figure out how the problem through every player-based means availiable. And once you've done that write up a quick document on exactly how the problem works, major areas it affects, if theres any workarounds. That'd give SoE dev's a good starting point. Well, sure as hell a far sight better one than "I'm stuck in a wall and it always happens. Fix it or i'm quitting."
Most if not all of the time when people complain, much in the same way i've described in the last line of the previous paragraph. It's just plain irritating and obtrusive. Instead of coming as a form of information it comes in like just some errant buzzing.
But clear concise descriptions of problems. Now that's going to get you somewhere. Espectially when you parlay the gravity of the situation. "Hard to play when stuck in a wall". Just sounds better than "If i keep getting stuck in the wall you can stick my subscription up your.."
Just my 2cp
Let me get this straight. I'm a subscriber, and - I - am supposed to do my vendor's JOB and "test" the problem.
So if I buy a new car, I should diagnose and test any problems I have rather than bother the dealer with fixing what's wrong.
Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.
From posts I've read on both these and the EQ Support Forums, there are a couple issues that stick out. First, you have the folks who DON'T have problems telling the people who DO have problems to quit complaining.
Then, we have the people who apparently ascribe to the viewpoint that because the game only costs $.60 per day that paying customers should be okay with bugs and such.
It's not about crappy code. It's not about whiny complainers. At the bottom of it all, it's about principle. And it just seems to me that the relative cost of any product should not justify substandard QA.
Unless you ascribe to another POV.. You get what you pay for.
Having said all that, I just haven't been playing EQ much. When the major issues are all fixed, then I'll proceed again. I tried playing the other nite and it's just no fun when half your raid gets gravity fluxed and velcroed to walls and such.
I honestly think that Mr Smedley is expecting his people to make things right and was for one, very heartened to see him publicly respond to issues affecting game play. The "whiny complainers" were apparently heard. :)
Edited, Thu Jun 3 14:15:17 2004 by Ralston
So if I buy a new car, I should diagnose and test any problems I have rather than bother the dealer with fixing what's wrong.
Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.
From posts I've read on both these and the EQ Support Forums, there are a couple issues that stick out. First, you have the folks who DON'T have problems telling the people who DO have problems to quit complaining.
Then, we have the people who apparently ascribe to the viewpoint that because the game only costs $.60 per day that paying customers should be okay with bugs and such.
It's not about crappy code. It's not about whiny complainers. At the bottom of it all, it's about principle. And it just seems to me that the relative cost of any product should not justify substandard QA.
Unless you ascribe to another POV.. You get what you pay for.
Having said all that, I just haven't been playing EQ much. When the major issues are all fixed, then I'll proceed again. I tried playing the other nite and it's just no fun when half your raid gets gravity fluxed and velcroed to walls and such.
I honestly think that Mr Smedley is expecting his people to make things right and was for one, very heartened to see him publicly respond to issues affecting game play. The "whiny complainers" were apparently heard. :)
Edited, Thu Jun 3 14:15:17 2004 by Ralston
So for that $.60 a day, you expect perfect code for a highly complex piece of software that will work flawlessly over a global network for approximately 400,000 different people across a large variety of system configurations and 100% uptime. Sure, that sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
And software development is somehow analogous with car manufacturing now? Uh huh, I can buy that.
Good stuff. Excellent rating.
And software development is somehow analogous with car manufacturing now? Uh huh, I can buy that.
Good stuff. Excellent rating.
The people playing on the test servers WERE experiencing these bugs and they WERE reporting them repeatedly.
The powers that be at SOE made a conscious decision to ignore (or grossly underplay) the validity of that feedback and push out the changes, though they were fully aware of how buggy they were.
It disappoints me to see so many people excusing and defending shoddy work by SOE, and going a step further to actually belittle those people who are not willing to do the same.
The powers that be at SOE made a conscious decision to ignore (or grossly underplay) the validity of that feedback and push out the changes, though they were fully aware of how buggy they were.
It disappoints me to see so many people excusing and defending shoddy work by SOE, and going a step further to actually belittle those people who are not willing to do the same.
I don't believe I said I expected ANYTHING. Other than whether you buy a Cadillac or a Hyundai, there should be an underlying quality assurance and level of craftsmanship the customer should be entitiled to.
You're either just wanting to fight, or you continue to fail to understand that whether it ba a car or a computer game (analogies you know), it's not up to te CUSTOMER to fix the problems they receive the product WITH.
And apparently there were ENOUGH "excellent rating" people complaining that SOE is doing something about it.
Oh. And I heard someone caught a 1200 pound marlin trolling over on the DAOC boards just in case you're interested.
You're either just wanting to fight, or you continue to fail to understand that whether it ba a car or a computer game (analogies you know), it's not up to te CUSTOMER to fix the problems they receive the product WITH.
And apparently there were ENOUGH "excellent rating" people complaining that SOE is doing something about it.
Oh. And I heard someone caught a 1200 pound marlin trolling over on the DAOC boards just in case you're interested.
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