Back in the Kunark days, monks were a much desired class. They were the first choice when it came to the puller role, they were considered the 2nd best melee dps, and could even tank almost as well as a warrior.
Now, with several expansions (and nerfs) later, the importance of the monk seems to have diminished greatly. With the upgrade of the other melee classes (and the addition of more spells for casters/hybrids), I wonder what the role is for this once great class.
Bards are consistently asked to be main pullers more then monks from my personal exp, since they have more reliable abilites for the job. Rogues still outclass them by far in melee dps output and other hybrid and pure caster dps classes are often times more desirable in groups then monks because they bring a wider variety of abilites to the group in addition to their dps output (BST have buffs and slows. Rangers get snare,track,and harmony. Mages have mod rod, pet items, charm elemental. Wizards get best burst dps, with ports and snare).
I am not trying to flame the class; indeed I want to find a reason to start one up again. However, there very few requests for monks in groups on my server. Most of the time, I see monks get passed over for other classes and if one does get into a group, its simply because they couldn't find another class to fill the last spot. Even with the new addition of their lull discs, they simply cannot match the speed and ease of bard pulling.
I think I would really enjoy playing a monk again, but I don't want to create one only to find out that I cannot get groups once I hit a certain level or be forced to have my guildmates allow me to "tag along" because no one wants my class. Anyone have any insights or comments on the class that would encourage me to play one?
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What is the role of a monk nowadays?Follow
SleepingDragon wrote:
Back in the Kunark days, monks were a much desired class. They were the first choice when it came to the puller role, they were considered the 2nd best melee dps, and could even tank almost as well as a warrior.
Don't you mean "back in the Luclin days"?
I don't think Monks did too much tanking in the Kunark/Velious era.
Monks are still the 2nd best melee DPS, still the best puller and I don't know any one in their right mind who would pass up a competent Monk.
They no longer tank the way they did during the Luclin era, but then, at that time they were crazily overpowered.
In my guild the raid pulling is done by a team of monks, and we would be lost without them. They also put out huge DPS.
Seems strange to hear of monks getting passed over for group invites. They always seem highly desirable to me.
Seems strange to hear of monks getting passed over for group invites. They always seem highly desirable to me.
Just an observation.....
I have two friends that are monks. In low 20 LDON's we used the monks as tanks and pullers. But as we progressed by the 40's they no longer could pull in the time frame needed, the space allowed or handled the mobs abuse as the main tank. Suddenly monks were seen as an off tank take them only if you have a real tank. I can certainly see what the original post is about.
The new generation of EQ expansions and players only understand level fast fast fast. With such swiftness many times competency is lost, really playing a toon well is a weakness and understanding a group larger than 6 is unheard of. Yes I am one of the EQ new generation players but I play with 5 year veterens so I get so see things many don't.
The large and old guilds like the one another poster spoke of rely heavily on Monks. Chain pulling was something long ago that was standard practice and most of these guilds still use them. The FD that a Monk has in my opinion far exceeds that of any class. Monks just need more time and more space but in the end they can be more accurate in what they bring to you. I have had a Monk save my **** more times than I can count over any other class.
If you want to play a monk I would say do so. Realize that it may taking finding a group of people that truly understand the class and has some respect for it to use a monk properly.
I have two friends that are monks. In low 20 LDON's we used the monks as tanks and pullers. But as we progressed by the 40's they no longer could pull in the time frame needed, the space allowed or handled the mobs abuse as the main tank. Suddenly monks were seen as an off tank take them only if you have a real tank. I can certainly see what the original post is about.
The new generation of EQ expansions and players only understand level fast fast fast. With such swiftness many times competency is lost, really playing a toon well is a weakness and understanding a group larger than 6 is unheard of. Yes I am one of the EQ new generation players but I play with 5 year veterens so I get so see things many don't.
The large and old guilds like the one another poster spoke of rely heavily on Monks. Chain pulling was something long ago that was standard practice and most of these guilds still use them. The FD that a Monk has in my opinion far exceeds that of any class. Monks just need more time and more space but in the end they can be more accurate in what they bring to you. I have had a Monk save my **** more times than I can count over any other class.
If you want to play a monk I would say do so. Realize that it may taking finding a group of people that truly understand the class and has some respect for it to use a monk properly.
pulling and DPS, same as always.
Bards can pull at worst as well, and if they are good, vastly faster, and better. They have much better utility than monks. Flipside they are rare to find, and hard class to learn. DPS wise the bard doesn't hold a candle to a monk in melee. Hell both seem rare to find, if your looking for one, or the other. Rangers/wizards and Zerkers seem more common for DPS. Enchanters/Paladins/Cleric's for pulling depending on level/place.
Monk still has it's place as a puller/DPS machine, not much has changed there. I would take a monk for a spot as fast as any other class. Others may disagree, perception rules in EQ, and that is today's monk real problem.
Monk still has it's place as a puller/DPS machine, not much has changed there. I would take a monk for a spot as fast as any other class. Others may disagree, perception rules in EQ, and that is today's monk real problem.
This is sort of an unrelated observation, but...
One runs into EQers from time to time whom one might consider a "jerk", "moron", "annoyance", etc. with the adjectives...
From my EQ experiences (limited to the lower levels and my specific server, mind you), I have found an unproportionally high amount of these "I'm 10, very hyper, I want to beat things and get loot" type players tend to be monks...
I wonder if the monk class has a tendency to draw this type of player?
I'm in no way bashing the class, I've not played a monk and don't know anything about them to be honest, but I've subconciously associated them with the "annoying and dishonest" types in EQ (keep in mind this is based on my experiences and is just an observation, so no need to flame here)...This may just be coincidence that I've ran into a high number of these types that happened to be playing monks, but I don't know...
Mommy, mommy, I want a kung fu monk, its only 400 bucks on ebay, please, please!!
One runs into EQers from time to time whom one might consider a "jerk", "moron", "annoyance", etc. with the adjectives...
From my EQ experiences (limited to the lower levels and my specific server, mind you), I have found an unproportionally high amount of these "I'm 10, very hyper, I want to beat things and get loot" type players tend to be monks...
I wonder if the monk class has a tendency to draw this type of player?
I'm in no way bashing the class, I've not played a monk and don't know anything about them to be honest, but I've subconciously associated them with the "annoying and dishonest" types in EQ (keep in mind this is based on my experiences and is just an observation, so no need to flame here)...This may just be coincidence that I've ran into a high number of these types that happened to be playing monks, but I don't know...
Mommy, mommy, I want a kung fu monk, its only 400 bucks on ebay, please, please!!
Josettee wrote:
Just an observation.....
I have two friends that are monks. In low 20 LDON's we used the monks as tanks and pullers. But as we progressed by the 40's they no longer could pull in the time frame needed, the space allowed or handled the mobs abuse as the main tank. Suddenly monks were seen as an off tank take them only if you have a real tank. I can certainly see what the original post is about.
I have two friends that are monks. In low 20 LDON's we used the monks as tanks and pullers. But as we progressed by the 40's they no longer could pull in the time frame needed, the space allowed or handled the mobs abuse as the main tank. Suddenly monks were seen as an off tank take them only if you have a real tank. I can certainly see what the original post is about.
My experience is different to this, our "A" team, is Warrior 65, Cleric 65, Enchanter 63, Druid 65, Ranger 62, Monk 63.
Our Monk always pulls Mirraguls, Guk, Takish-Hiz for us, we have never "lost" because of the time taken to split mobs. (We have surely lost because of unbreakable rooms in Takish and unmezzable/unrootable/zone wide aggro mobs in Mirraguls though, lol. But that is not the Monk's fault).
Mind you, we do take the approach that that he brings two if they are going to be a pain to split, and if its three one of us will be ready to assist the Chanter or off tank.
Hmm, now that I think about it Josettee, I'm betting its a tactics issue.
When we dont have our Chanter, we will have a second Warrior, or a Necro. We are prepared for 3 to 4 mobs in camp at any time. Not that this is what we want, a nice steady single chain pull is our goal, (and most of the time this is what our Monk gives us) but we don't sacrifice time to try to achieve this. We also are quite careful about where we pull to, so we do try to leave the Monk a bit of room to work with (he hates the doors in Takish). So if he's bringing 2s and 3s and the occasional 4 we try to be prepared to deal with it, rather than insisting on him flopping all the time or evaccing (which I know some do, this is an incredible waste of time).
Obviously if you do not have the healing capacity this will not work very well.
It could also be a discipline/AA thing I suppose.
I don't know about monks, but my necro FD when used for pulling is chancy. It pretty much always works, but if you get up the mob will be right back after you. The higher level the mob the less chance that you will have an instant agro wipe where it almost never works on mobs 60+ unless you wait the standard 2 minutes for agro to clear. On the otherhand bards have one of the best pacifies in the game and can mez and add if they get one. IMO they really need to increase monk DPS. Thats what they are good at.
Blacktharne,
I'd like to offer myself up as an exception to your rule. No, I'm not perfect, I've not seen the age of 10 for many a year, nor did I buy my avatar. Aside from rather typical newbie mistakes, I've never deliberately been a schmuck.
No flames here, just...well, heck, just trying to say not all Monks are ******** 10 years old, or bought their character. :)
If you're ever on Stromm send me a tell & we'll hunt.
Safe Travels,
Joe
Edited, Tue May 18 21:46:02 2004 by joev
I'd like to offer myself up as an exception to your rule. No, I'm not perfect, I've not seen the age of 10 for many a year, nor did I buy my avatar. Aside from rather typical newbie mistakes, I've never deliberately been a schmuck.
No flames here, just...well, heck, just trying to say not all Monks are ******** 10 years old, or bought their character. :)
If you're ever on Stromm send me a tell & we'll hunt.
Safe Travels,
Joe
Edited, Tue May 18 21:46:02 2004 by joev
My experience thus far is good w/FD. It's slow to skill-up, but worked very well for me w/mobs under level 35 after it moved over 61. NOt sure about over 35 b/c I just hit my mid-20s.
Pardon my lack of knowledge here, but for Necros, is FD a skill or a spell?
Edited, Tue May 18 21:43:49 2004 by joev
Pardon my lack of knowledge here, but for Necros, is FD a skill or a spell?
Edited, Tue May 18 21:43:49 2004 by joev
Spell for necros and SK's
Neros is a spell, but the mana cost in trival for me at 65 and the level 60 version of the spell has only a 1 second recast time. I'd say it's pretty damb close to as good as a monks.
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